Was this Direct that good?

 

I mean, we still have like no release dates. Not one for Mario Kart 8, and not even a time frame for SSB4.

 

They give you plenty of things to talk about and yet you move the goal posts AGAIN, this time saying "well, we don't release dates though!" Again, like trying to conquer Russia. It's not their fault you're freezing your toes off

and this is why whining about Nintendo is akin to trying conquer Russia. Yeah, you'll get a few licks in but then winter hits and you end up looking like a fool.

Waiting to see how much people overhype this only to throw a hissy fit when their unrealistic expectations don't come to pass. Happens EVERY freaking time

Both Ubisoft and EA have published several titles for the 3DS already, so I don’t really see a “ton” of 3rd parties that don’t support the 3DS. It’s a viable platform, and I think it gets decent support from third parties. Nintendo has a nice niche in the handheld market, and their handhelds have always done well.

Lack of third party support is a bit trickier when it comes to Nitnendo’s consoles. A lot of Nintendo fans really turn into the biggest whiners in regard to third party support and cry about third parties "not liking" Nintendo, but the reality is that those same gamers are just not buying third party titles, so a lot of the blame can be laid at the gamers feet.

Nintendo can’t just sit back on their laurels and wait for third parties to come to them, the market is just too crowded right now. They should be partnering with and promoting third parties more - or even just listening to what other developers are looking for with their game platforms. In terms of features like online, Nintendo offers very little third party support and features compared to Microsoft and Sony. So if a Wii/U port comes with gimped online, it’s really Nintendo’s fault.

In case you haven’t noticed, a lot of game studios are barely making any money right now and even going belly up. If Nintendo doesn't build a platform that is conducive for third parties to work with, they will continue to always be the last choice (or left out altogether).

 

1. That's a load of crap and you know it. Putting out one crappy title once in a blue moon is pathetic. That's not good business and that's just idiotic.

 

2. Ever wonder WHY people flock to Nintendo titles over 3rd party ones on Nintendo systems? Because Nintendo have a general perception as being of the highest quality. Furthermore, tons of 3rd parties have basically sabotaged their image on Nintendo consoles through lazy efforts. You forfeit the right to complain about sales on a Nintendo system when you don't even TRY.

 

3. Okay, THAT'S the biggest load of crap. Question, who forced devs to freaking make their budgets so absurd and thus risk themselves going out of business? The console manufacturers? No, they merely provided power, they never held a gun to devs' heads and demanded they spend $60 million on a game. Gamers? No, it's been repeatedly proven that customers don't really care about anything but gameplay. Publishers? I very much doubt that, because publishers would LOVE to cut costs and have lower budgets (you can make an argument about publishers doing obscene advertising campaigns, but that doesn't disprove the point I'm getting to). So whose fault is it that devs are in financial straits?

Simple: the devs themselves. They CHOSE to do all that crap. It's THEIR fault they're failing to make a profit, THEIR fault they can't sell anything, THEIR fault that no one with a brain wants to buy their lazy, half-hearted, boring efforts when something a lot better and more fulfilling is right around the corner. So you're telling me to feel sympathetic towards a bunch of spoiled brats who refuse to own up to their own mistakes and thus take it out on everyone else, not just Nintendo? No, I refuse. I do not reward laziness, sloppiness, and sure as hell don't reward self-entitled behavior from a bunch of idiots who need a time out. Third parties' incompetence and mistakes are on THEIR heads, not Nintendo's, not Sony's, not MS', not gamers'. It needs to stop. Nintendo gave them as much as they needed and it's not Nintendo's faults that 3rd parties have rendered themselves incapable of doing a simple porting job because they can't keep their finances in order.

yeah i guess they have somewhat... but i was referring to western third parties.  at this point it is a lost cause with Nintendo and Western 3rd party developers put their money into trying to score exclusive content from eastern devs and call it a day.

 

Then that's the loss of 3rd parties. Can't exactly feel sorry for Western companies when they make such idiotic decisions and then demand the manufacturers clean up their messes and pay for their mistakes. The reason Western 3rd parties kept failing on Nintendo's handhelds is because they weren't putting proper effort in. Most of those companies treated handhelds like red-headed stepchildren and never, ever bother to make something decent for it. As such, they missed their chance, they failed to cultivate and audience, and their lack of effort was rewarded properly: with critical derision and low sales.

Well, I'd say in the 3DS' case it's more that developing for a handheld would actually take some originality and creativity. They can't just quick port whatever their annual series is to the system, even less so than the Wii U. Every 3rd party you mentioned is also western, and western third parties (along with most western gamers in general) think that anything sub-HD is below them. Didn't you know? They can only be innovative when the have access to bleeding edge tech because that's how 'awesome' their games are. You see, the reason their titles started losing originality isn't because that's the best they can do but because the hardware was limiting them. Their genius creative minds are just too epic. 

 

But this is the thing I don't understand: how do developers keep convincing 3rd parties to ignore the portable market like that? You'd think publishers would be all over that and would tell their dev teams to shut up and start working on something for it, but mysteriously it never happens. A lot of people like to whine about the publishers, but the developers seem to share just as much of the blame, if not more. I don't know how they've convinced publishers to ignore such a HUGE market, but it's not a good. Making your business centered solely around the console market is just stupid when the handheld market is so big. It makes no sense. And it really just led to Japanese companies like Atlus, CAPCOM, Square, and Namco getting such a hold on the market that Western companies have no room to get in. I suppose that COULD be the logic (i.e. "we can't sell with all these Japanese titles on there!"), but it's still a dumb decision that can only hurt them in the long run.

Okay, so you're never changing your views no matter how much sense I throw at either of you, way to be pros.


Here's a video about the UK.

 

it's not about changing of views, it's about logic and evidence, like what I've seen here:

 

http://finance.whart...-Governance.pdf

 

That's how Japan is, shareholders basically have no power. That's not about views or opinions, that's about facts. I knew Japanese businesses operated differently from American/European business, but even I was shocked that basically it is kind of an opposite of what Western business is like. Me trying to argue against would be like me arguing that water doesn't exist. It would be my opinion, perhaps, but it would also be factually WRONG. It would just be STUPID

You're silly.
Do we really need someone to explain what a vote is to you?

 

Oh, I know what a vote is....but it doesn't matter. Just about everything you THINK you know about investing, you pretty much have to think the exact opposite way when it comes to Japan. As I explained earlier, investors have as little power as possible in Japanese corporate culture, regardless of whether or not the investor is Japanese or foreign. Japanese businesses are structured in such a way that investors can't really DO anything significant. At best, all they can do is shake their fists impotently. They can't bully the board of directors, they can't influence the CEO, they can't really do anything. Japanese businesses prioritize STAKEHOLDERS over shareholders. They're concerned about their employees and their customers instead of their shareholders. They prioritize their company's longevity over making their already wealthy investors wealthier.

So...yeah, basically with the way Japanese business works it's next to impossible for Iwata to get fired. The only way he'll leave is through willing resignation. And remember, he would be the one to pick his successor which would probably be someone with a similar mindset and philosophy. Best to just get over it and accept the reality of the situation.

http://www.nintendo....tion/index.html
Nintendo have been listening to those morons, as a stock holder you vote on issues.

And Nintendo (and Japanese businesses in general) only really pay attention to them as a courtesy.

"Tre, on 14 Dec 2013 - 8:10 PM, said:
My turn to chime in. Who is this "core" people are speaking of? I mean really. The Wii sold 100 million consoles. Does that mean 100 million people bought it? PS3 and XBox 360 sold roughly 80 million a piece. Does that mean 160 million people bought it? All together that would be 260 people, right? The answer to all the questions is no. The Wii U, PS4, and Xbox One is at around 8 million. Is that 8 million people? No. People are dipping and buying multiple console. The 8th generation market have not been establish yet to even know if the Wii U is doing poorly or if the PS4 and Xbox One is doing great. The so called "core" audience have not been establish for this generation. It is going to take at least 3 years to figure that out. Nintendo is doing what most company do. They are trying to find their market and exploit it. All this talk of investors. Investors do not even know the extent of what they are investing in. They invest in numbers. Even though the total console sales of each generation has increased, there is a time when it might slow down. Numbers could be decreased by have more stable products that do not need to be purchased again. Nintendo management is fine. They know what games people want. They probably have many discussions about if a game should resurface. As someone mention, they tried with Kid Icarus. They will try another and another until they find one that sticks. The internet is a small (very small) percentage of the gaming community. I understand the OP being frustrated but it comes a time when people need to leave politics to the ones in the gaming industry."

That is the funny thing, Japanese business prioritizes STAKEHOLDERS i.e. employees, suppliers, and customers. Furthermore....the way Japanese businesses are structured makes it near impossible for investors to influence the board of directors. In fact, most of the time the board of directors tend to be people from INSIDE the company who tend to be voted in by the CEO himself. Yeah, the CEO basically can't be taken out except by himself. Everything you THINK you know about business, you kinda have to do the exact opposite with Japanese. It's THAT different from the West.

So you're saying they're going to buy up all their stock, and go back to being a private company?
Back when they were at their lowest share price since the Wii and DS, they had $2.3 Billion worth of shares on the market.
They could buy back all those shares at a much higher premium and waste around $6 billion of the ~$10 billion they have in investments and bonds/cash.
I doubt that would be in their best interest though, just to keep Iwata in a job he's not doing very well at.

More like just let useless investors screech at walls because it's all they're worth. The moment Nintendo listens to those morons is a BAD day for the company.

http://www.nintendo....30627qa/03.html
Iwata answering questions.

He will eventually have to answer to his actions. Japanese or not, shareholders of Nintendo are all around the world.
If they sell their stock low, the value of Nintendo stock falls, and the company loses profit from shareholders buying shares in them.
It hurts their business in the long run and is against their best interests.
It's not a WESTERN thing, it's basic public listing business practice worldwide.
Having a "boysclub" mentality will only get you so far, even in Japan.

Problem: investors can't actually do anything against Iwata. Oh, they'll kick and scream like children but eventually they'll shut up. At best they can TRY to yell at the board of directors....who all happen to be Japanese. Yeah, not gonna work with them. This isn't so much a "boy's club" mentality as it is people telling others to know their place. Investors are that: investors, they're people who buy stock. And quite frankly it seems to me that Nintendo as a whole is getting sick of them. Iwata doesn't CARE about share prices because they're not all that meaningful when you get down to it. They're an abstract concept that people attribute a value to based pretty much on word of mouth.

uh, this is completely valid; it's always recommended that you don't post personal info online due to how easily abused it can be. This is just common sense.

The problem you have at this point is that major third parties don't WANT to support Nintendo. They want as much money as possible for as very little work as possible. Sony and MS have essentially bent over and grabbed their ankles for third parties because without their help both of them die off quickly. Basically the PS4 and XBone were hand crafted by third parties, and what did we get? Two near identical consoles so that porting is as easy as possible. They were almost able to get DRM in as well (which I think still might happen once these consoles reach a high enough install base).

 

Nintendo on the other hand? No, they'd have to actually do a LITTLE bit of work to make their games work on the system which is way too much for third parties. Why are they going to actually put work in to this system when the two other companies do whatever they tell them to? If anything, major third parties want to see Nintendo taken out. Nintendo can try to sway and woo third parties all they want, but just look at the current third party support and you will see the results. Every single game is intentionally and severely gimped in terms of content. Modes that are in every other version are taken out or their not giving it dlc. Why? So that third parties can have an excuse as to why they don't support Nintendo. At the end of the day, Nintendo can't force third parties to support them.

 

What makes it even worse is that when Nintendo occasionally does get an awesome third party exclusive, gamers either whine and cry or they just shrug off the game entirely. Even if GTA was on the Wii U and equal to all the other versions, gamers would still avoid it like the plague and instead get it on another system. At this point Nintendo's best bet is to simply expand their exclusive offerings and carve out a niche for themselves and make their profit while the HD twins continue to try to one up the other. 

 

I would say just look at the 3DS. Even after it became the best-selling system weekly a TON of 3rd parties refuse to work on it. Ubisoft, EA, and 2K for instance haven't released a single title on it since its launch. There is NO reason for them to do that. Any major 3rd party should have at least ONE decent portable title, otherwise it's just bad business. I can't help but feel it's because crawling back to Nintendo would be too humiliating after writing off the 3DS. It'll probably be the same; even WHEN the install base gets higher and should logically be viable they'll still ignore and make convenient, lazy excuses for why they can't release stuff on Nintendo platforms, their favored argument being "w-we can't sell on Nintendo systems!" Classic BS

Iwata will have to answer to share holders eventually. He can't keep saying "1 game next year! 9 million units!", he has to have some results soon or they will have zero confidence in him.
Hopefully, they stay away from iOS and Android development no matter what.

 

...It amazes me at how many times I have to reiterate this due to people not doing their homework properly. So here it goes again: SHAREHOLDERS DON'T DO CRAP IN JAPANESE BUSINESS. That stereotype of shareholders bullying Boards or CEOs, well...that's a WESTERN thing. That doesn't really exist in Japan. It's just not in their culture. So, NO, Iwata will not be answering to any shareholders anytime soon. The only way he's going to leave is through resignation and that's probably only going to happen when he's too old to keep the position. Which is going to be a LOOOOOONG time.

I wonder how we look back to this time in a 5 years from now.

 

We will all want to slap ourselves for being idiots and drama queens. It's like how adults look back at their high school/college antics and go "WTF were we THINKING?????"

Steve Jobs was Apple's original CEO. He was kicked out and then the new management nearly bankrupted Apple. Once Steve Jobs came back he reversed many of the other management's changes and that saved the company.

 

Firing management is really nothing more than a lazy, quick way to shut up whiny, know-nothing shareholders. However, since shareholder activism isn't prominent in Japanese business, you're not gonna see Iwata resign anytime soon.

not once does it actually say the Wii U's numbers on there except for percentages. Mostly because the NPD doesn't put out numbers, including those from October. So the Wii U's ACTUAL November sales are unknown for everyone but Nintendo. Can't exactly say it sold 220K when you're missing important parts of the equation

You mean PC "master race"?

And what's hilarious about that label is that it was meant as a snide insult. It was Yahtzee basically saying that too many PC gamers care about making their games as complex, unintuitive, and irritating as possible because that's the only way a game could justify being PC exclusive because there really wasn't any reason anymore aside FROM how shiny a game's textures were. But of course, idiots hijacked that term and forgot that it was meant to be a slam against them.

But Sony didn't to bring people in with Killzone because the dudebros were already there. It's a different situation. It's not gonna be like nintendo makes aweseom shooter and suddenly all the dudebros are all "I totally respect nintendo now, and am going to buy a wii u to play this game." because in case you haven't noticed, most dudebros

are 

complete

idiots.

They're too busy trying to impress their friends with manly they are by buying COD and how their 13 year old dicks have totally grown half a millimeter. They already have their notions about Nintendo, and trying to get them to come to Nintendo is a waste of their money, especially since last gen they had a system the dudebros hated, but still had  the best console sales.

 

And we also have the "hardcore" snobs who have been brainwashed into believing all this specs bs. Sometimes a lot of their crap comes off as stuff you'd see in a political smear campaign. Whining about 3rd parties, whining about specs, whining about the name, whining about Nintendo continuing to use its most successful franchises. It's the pinnacle of insecure pseudo-intellectual tripe.

For a long time now I've thought you were a troll.  But I'm beginning to think you really are as clueless as you seem.  

 

Sounds about right

Do we seriously have to go over this again. Didnt we have a whole thread explaining why Nintendo would not and should not do this?

 

We apparently have to have it again and again because some people just don't get logic. And there is a word for those kind of people: morons.

Rogers once again trolling for hits by making a dramatic article. It's perhaps entertaining, but it's not very strong as an argument.

What happened with the bosses?  You don't have to kill them in the Wii U version?

 

You still have to fight them, but the options for them are a LOT more varied. For instance, the first boss fight let's you play with some hacking options if you've been specced that way. The maps have more varied terrain, thus you can switch up tactics.

Did everyone living in the Nintendo bubble get smacked with a little dose of reality?

 

What, the reality that the VGAs are a worthless show that deserves no real attention thus Nintendo was completely justified in showing a throwaway announcement? Yeah, that seems about right.

Whats terrible is gamers sticking up for Nintendo spitting in their faces. They know what they want and they won't deliver. They are even too cheap to make a console with modern hardware. Thats why all the hate. Nintendo needs to get their act together! I mean come on quit defending laziness! Quit defending them putting out garbage. You guys complain when you don't get new stuff.

 

WHY WOULD THEY MAKE NEW STUFF WHEN YOU CHOKE DOWN THE SAME OLD STUFF. Mario 3D world looks amazing. Donkey kong looks like Donkey Kong. WHY ARENT THEY MAKING NEW I.P.S? WHY ARENT THEY BUYING NEW STUDIOS? They need to work on expanding not making the same game 500 times. I mean they recycle every franchise every year in the exact same way. WHY CAN'T THEY CHANGE SOMETHING???!! ANYTHING?! Make a freaking Star Fox game! Make a ice climbers reboot. Make a new platformer.

Heck announce a partnership with capcom to make Viewtiful U. I thought they gained sense when they did Zombi U and Bayonetta 2. BUT NO. Its all a lazy light show. Nintendo cares none about the core gamer. Their games are covered up in nostalgia thats it. I love Mario as much as the next guy but this gen its not gonna cut it.

 

yeah, yeah, yeah, Nintendo beat you up and stole your lunch money in high school, we get it. And it's seriously OLD. Nintendo makes new stuff every generation, you just either ignore it, conveniently say it doesn't count, or that it sucks. Furthermore, Nintendo keeps making new Mario, Zelda, Metroid, Kirby, Mario Kart, Smash Bros, Donkey Kong, Fire Emblem, Pikmin, Wario, Pokemon, etc for very simple reason: they're still popular, they still sell, and they're still GOOD and still innovating. Not exactly difficult to comprehend. Well, for an intelligent person anyway.