230 replies to this topic

[GAMER1984]

Bro calm down... Doom and Gloom is getting on your nerves... It can run UE4, they just won't port it themselves.
 
I agree with Nollog, they're getting out of business soon.

Yeah I'm a whole lot better now.

[routerbad]

You keep telling us that the trailers aren't to be believed, and aren't running on PS4 hardware, but nowhere do you back up your claims. You say that we know all these things about the PS4 hardware already based on just a simple spec sheet, and made judgements on the games' visual qualities before ever having seen a game running on it or even an E3 trailer. Hell, you're even benchmarking the PS4 CPU against the Wii U's. So yeah, I don't think I'm being unreasonable questioning your observations.

I'll accept any information you have on the PS4, provided you can substantiate it. Until then, I can only look at what Sony, Capcom and others have shown and speculate based on that.

For the record, I don't think I ever said that the Wii U's specs were terrible.


Well, you just claimed that the Wii U has dedicated hardware support for global illumination. Source?


I don't remember Nintendo or ATI ever saying that...so again, source?

CAPCOM stated themselves that the Phanta Rhei demo (Deep Down) was rendered in engine, not running live on PS4 hardware in engine, just running in engine.  Have some common sense here and don't argue a point for the sake of arguing, its silly.  We all know plenty of companies use target renders to hype their upcoming products, Sony does it more than others.

 

I don't think you said that, I'm pretty sure I was replying to thechamp, who did.  it gets hard to keep it straight sometimes when the conversation moves so quickly.

 

Check the e3 footage from 2011, at the booth where they were showing off the Zelda tech demo, they pointed out global illumination and color bleed being a central focus when designing the platform.  Also, a GAF member by the name of bgassassin has some great industry sources that were bound by NDA, so all they could reveal about what they knew is that there was "dedicated silicon" for things like GI, shadows, tessellation, and more that removed some of the burden on the main RAM pool.

 

Nintendo is big on using fixed functions in the past, this would be a natural extension of that.

 

You should search around here, we've had these discussions before.

Edited by routerbad, 02 April 2013 - 09:32 PM.

[Chaz]

CAPCOM stated themselves that the Phanta Rhei demo (Deep Down) was rendered in engine, not running live on PS4 hardware in engine, just running in engine. Have some common sense here and don't argue a point for the sake of arguing, its silly. We all know plenty of companies use target renders to hype their upcoming products, Sony does it more than others.

And I already told you that Capcom made statements at GDC claiming that the Deep Down renders are running on PS4 hardware, as well as a tweet from one of the developers showing a still from the game running on PS4. This is a hardware that's going to be launching in 6-7 months, it's not exactly making any big leaps to assume that the some of these renders are indicative of what the actual games are going to look like.

Check the e3 footage from 2011, at the booth where they were showing off the Zelda tech demo, they pointed out global illumination and color bleed being a central focus when designing the platform.

Again, I see no mention of this anywhere in the news stories surrounding the Wii U's reveal.

Also, a GAF member by the name of bgassassin has some great industry sources that were bound by NDA, so all they could reveal about what they knew is that there was "dedicated silicon" for things like GI, shadows, tessellation, and more that removed some of the burden on the main RAM pool.

Statements like this are exactly why I said your arguments are all one-sided. Capcom making informal statements at a developer conference has no bearing on the truth, yet you're more than happy to cite NeoGaf as a source??! Hell, why don't we just start compiling our facts from the VGChartz and Gamespot forums while we're at it...

[routerbad]

And I already told you that Capcom made statements at GDC claiming that the Deep Down renders are running on PS4 hardware, as well as a tweet from one of the developers showing a still from the game running on PS4. This is a hardware that's going to be launching in 6-7 months, it's not exactly making any big leaps to assume that the some of these renders are indicative of what the actual games are going to look like.


Again, I see no mention of this anywhere in the news stories surrounding the Wii U's reveal.


Statements like this are exactly why I said your arguments are all one-sided. Capcom making informal statements at a developer conference has no bearing on the truth, yet you're more than happy to cite NeoGaf as a source??! Hell, why don't we just start compiling our facts from the VGChartz and Gamespot forums while we're at it...

No, actually, you haven't, and they've made no such comment at GDC.  Stills don't make the non existent game any more tangible than the target render did.  Why are you even arguing about this?  I've already said, many, many times, that if the PS4 delivers gameplay that looks anything like Deep Down, I will be very impressed.  You know what I think about it, I know what you think, move on.  Also, Killzone renders that were touted as "in game" footage were never as pretty as the target renders either, because everything changes once you have game code running on the system.

 

I already told you where you can find the info if you're actually interested, a cursory google search might not work for you, especially since most of the media in this industry don't care to write anything legitimate about Nintendo or the Wii U because it doesn't get the clicks that doom articles get.  (that's a little tongue in cheek, it isn't an anti Nintendo conspiracy out there, but they do catch a lot of bias in the media).

 

There is no indication that the comment you just now cited ever existed.  I cited a particular GAF member who is well known for having reliable sources in the industry.

 

I have news for you son, your arguments are also one sided, such is the nature of debate.  I completely understand your position, but it wasn't you I was initially engaged with in this thread.

 

VGChartz is an interesting subject, many Nintendo haters use VGChartz to cite their weaker than actual Wii U system and software sales numbers, but when they start reporting in the pro version a 300% rise in sales in certain regions for the Wii U and Lego City and Monster Hunter breaking the top 10 weekly charts, they can't be trusted.

 

NeoGAF has their trouble makers just like any other forum, but they also have a boatload of reliable members known for their accurate information.  Take it for what it is, heresay.  Honestly that's all that is, but I trust it, I can understand if you choose not to.  I think What Nintendo have in store will give you a different opinion as the generation progresses and it stops being the cool thing to do to troll and trash talk Nintendo and its fans.

 

Here are the specs of the first devkits that were released on GAF by a developer with early access to the SDK feature list. http://www.nintengen...k-gpu-info.html

That was the original target hardware, which was updated, changed, and changed again until mid 2012 when the hardware was finalized.

 

Basically the early devkits were using more standard OTS components for target hardware while their chip designs were finalized for the build.  Also, GAF revealed the microscopic photographs of the Wii U CPU and GPU dies for everyone to see.  The sources on GAF are real and trustworthy, you just have to filter through the juvenile hate speak to see it.

[Chaz]

No, actually, you haven't, and they've made no such comment at GDC.

Sure I did, right here:
http://thewiiu.com/t...ine-4/?p=189257

And yes, Capcom told anyone who asked at the conference that their Deep Down footage was running from PS4 hardware.

Stills don't make the non existent game any more tangible than the target render did. Why are you even arguing about this?

Because I commented on what I saw in the PS4 trailers and you told me that I was either lying or have no clue what I'm looking at.

I'm supposed to listen to you because you miraculously already know so many intimate details about the PS4...though I do have to question that when you post things like this:

PS4 will not be licensing DirectX from Microsoft either. Both PS4 and Wii U will be using a modified form of Opengl, with engines that will utilize the same features found in DirectX. The only console that will be coded with the DirectX API is XBOX.

On top of everything else, I'm supposed to accept all of this at face value based on the secondhand opinions of a Neogaf user. Sorry, but to me it seems that the only disingenuous one here is you.

[3Dude]

Chaz, on 02 Apr 2013 - 19:16, said:Sure I did, right here:
http://thewiiu.com/t...ine-4/?p=189257

And yes, Capcom told anyone who asked at the conference that their Deep Down footage was running from PS4 hardware.


Because I commented on what I saw in the PS4 trailers and you told me that I was either lying or have no clue what I'm looking at.

I'm supposed to listen to you because you miraculously already know so many intimate details about the PS4...though I do have to question that when you post things like this:


On top of everything else, I'm supposed to accept all of this at face value based on the secondhand opinions of a Neogaf user. Sorry, but to me it seems that the only disingenuous one here is you.
---------------------------------------------------------

I believe deep down was being rendered real time.

It was two characters, in a tiny cave. Not all that demanding, or hard to put all the power at the systems disposal into 2 models, and an enclosed 30 ft square area. Should be rendered real time.

Its a common fact sony wont be licensing dx for their system.

Direct x is owned by microsoft. Sony would have to pay microsoft royalties for every ps4 sold.

[Chaz]

Its a common fact sony wont be licensing dx for their system.

Direct x is owned by microsoft. Sony would have to pay microsoft royalties for every ps4 sold.

 

Perhaps it's time for college? Might help you out with that reading comprehension, or at the least teach you how to Google.

[3Dude]

Chaz, on 02 Apr 2013 - 22:06, said:Perhaps it's time for college? Might help you out with that reading comprehension, or at the least teach you how to Google.

__________________________________________________



router bad: PS4 will not be licensing DirectX from Microsoft either. Both PS4 and Wii U will be using a modified form of Opengl, with engines that will utilize the same features found in DirectX. The only console that will be coded with the DirectX API is XBOX.

YOU: On top of everything else, I'm supposed to accept all of this at face value based on the secondhand opinions of a Neogaf user. Sorry, but to me it seems that the only disingenuous one here is you.


Oh. So you decided to be an @$$hole.

http://www.microsoft....aspx?q=directx

Now you're a stupid looking @$$hole.

Although you dont have to worry about believing random internet board members lying to you about microsoft owning direct x.

[Chaz]

Chaz, on 02 Apr 2013 - 22:06, said:Perhaps it's time for college? Might help you out with that reading comprehension, or at the least teach you how to Google.

__________________________________________________



router bad: PS4 will not be licensing DirectX from Microsoft either. Both PS4 and Wii U will be using a modified form of Opengl, with engines that will utilize the same features found in DirectX. The only console that will be coded with the DirectX API is XBOX.

YOU: On top of everything else, I'm supposed to accept all of this at face value based on the secondhand opinions of a Neogaf user. Sorry, but to me it seems that the only disingenuous one here is you.


Oh. So you decided to be an @$$hole.

http://www.microsoft....aspx?q=directx

Now you're a stupid looking @$$hole.

Although you dont have to worry about believing random internet board members lying to you about microsoft owning direct x.

 

What are you babbling on about? 

 

Learn to Google

 

Funny thing is, my post was paraphrasing you from an earlier post. So I guess the real a$$hole is actually you. No argument there.

Edited by Chaz, 03 April 2013 - 04:35 AM.

[3Dude]

What are you babbling on about?

Learn to Google

Funny thing is, my post was paraphrasing you from an earlier post. So I guess the real a$$hole is actually you. No argument there.

Direct X feature set >< Direct X.

"Sony is building its CPU on what it's calling an
extended DirectX 11.1+ feature set"

That means they are creating a custom api containing equivilants to all direct x 11.1 features.

Or what you were specifically told several times, but refused to listen too, because you thought you were smart. But werent.

Ha, fricking classic.

Edited by 3Dude, 03 April 2013 - 05:01 AM.

[routerbad]

What are you babbling on about? 

 

Learn to Google

 

Funny thing is, my post was paraphrasing you from an earlier post. So I guess the real a$$hole is actually you. No argument there.

That's a terrible article, developers will not be able to use all 8GB of RAM to experiment, where do they think all the encoded video will be stored along with the OS (kernel) footprint and any possibly suspended software.  Imagine you suspend a game, then because the other game you play uses too much RAM, it either forces it out of memory or goes into an N64 style lo-res mode to make up the difference.  That would make zero sense, and with all the additional services, much of that 8GB will be unavailable for development.

 

Also, they cannot improve DirectX11, the API is wholly owned by Microsoft and Sony does not license it.  What they can do is try to implement the same features in their own API.  The "improve" part is marketing speak, and the entire article seems to have been copy pasted from a press marketing pamphlet.