106 replies to this topic

[MorbidGod]

As cool as all of this is, seeing as how Nintendo is first in line and the developers are reveling in the idea of "Wow, it can do what the PS3 can do" and not "Wow, this is true next generation technology for video games!" I'm afraid we may turn up in another Wii situation.
Then again, I don't know much more they can do with home consoles. Either way, the fact that they're amazed with how it matches up with the PS3 is a bit underwhelming to me. I don't want this turning into the Wii where a lot of games don't come to it because it's so far behind. The Wii was more powerful than the Xbox and the PS2, but look where it went. This isn't enough to get excited about.

I wouldn't expect that. Rumors of the Xbox "Loop" are pointing to a smaller, cheaper Xbox Next with ARM 6-core processor. For those who don't know, ARM is whats in most smartphones and tablets. These processor by 2013 are said to have power just as good as Xbox 360.

If this rumor holds true, this would mean the Xbox "Loop" is going to be on par with the IBM Watson CPU and the ATI/AMD RV770 inspired GPU.

This merely goes along with the rumor that the Wii U uses a GPU based on the RV770 series of ATI Radeon GPU. This narrows the expectations down to a specific range, but still were talking about a GPU from about 3 to 5 times as powerful as current HD consoles, but with developers earlier pointing toward the Wii U's GPU being around a Radeon HD 4850 and more recent rumors of it being around a Radeon HD 4870 in power we can at least hope that the Wii U is around 4 to 5 times as powerful as Xbox 360.

Where have you heard it was from the 48xx series? And the RV770 is the base for all newer cards, or most, from AMD. Which means Nintendo might have started with the RV770 and AMD has been updating it since. Also all rumors point towards the GPU pretty much being done, if I remember correctly, and CPU still be worked out. Or that could be swapped.

[Ace]

I don't understand why people are saying that the Xbox 720 and PS4 are going to destroy the Wii U.You guys do realize that Sony themselves stated that the PS4 won't be much more powerful than the PS3, right?

[Waller]

a lot of people use this quote from sony trying to state the PS4 wont be that much more powerful. i have to call MAJOR BS on this one. for one sony has been able to sell console this gen off of the power alone. make no mistake without uncharted 2, god of war 3, and the killzone games sony would not be where it is now. sony has brainwashed their fans believeing the ps3 is more advanced than most high end computers and make all their developers say "this game cant run on any other console". believe me sony wont abandon those millions upon million of their fans that are graphic whores. "IF" they decide to go that route they will lose the majority of their fans and they will move to the more powerful machine.

Sony gained NOTHING from the PS3. They won't make a repetition of it.

[Wertville]

again respectfully disagree. truth is there is a majority of people that want the best tech even reggie of nintendo stated this. sony was able to have legs to stand on this gen because they had the most powerful console and thus the best look or i should say graphically advanced games. i just dont see sony abandoning those fans. but it could be microsoft that has the most powerful console next gen like they did with xbox1.

I think he was referring to losing the entirety of the earnings made by the PS1 and PS2, both underpowered consoles.

[Jikayaki]

I wouldn't expect that. Rumors of the Xbox "Loop" are pointing to a smaller, cheaper Xbox Next with ARM 6-core processor. For those who don't know, ARM is whats in most smartphones and tablets. These processor by 2013 are said to have power just as good as Xbox 360.

If this rumor holds true, this would mean the Xbox "Loop" is going to be on par with the IBM Watson CPU and the ATI/AMD RV770 inspired GPU.



Where have you heard it was from the 48xx series? And the RV770 is the base for all newer cards, or most, from AMD. Which means Nintendo might have started with the RV770 and AMD has been updating it since. Also all rumors point towards the GPU pretty much being done, if I remember correctly, and CPU still be worked out. Or that could be swapped.

My statement was based on a supposed leak regarding the GPU being a RV770 in the alpha devkits. Since alpha devkits are usually made using of the shelf parts that limited the range in power of the GPU realistically from 3x to 5x the power of Xbox 360 based on the commercially available cards. A statement from an article around or shortly after E3 pointed to the alpha devkits having 1TFLOP of performance or more. This moves the alpha devkits more toward 4 or 5 times the power of current hd consoles. The HD 5000's where in principle based on 4000's. AMD often reuses designs between card gens gradually introducing new hardware designs.

Don't simply look at the capabilities of mobile devises when considering the power of the rumored Xbox Loop even with an ARM processor it could easily out perform Wii U. However if the rumored Xbox Loop is the next xbox and ARM based it certainly would improve the possibility that Wii U and Xbox next would relatively close in capability.

[Marc]

Microsoft will most definitely try to round up the pursuit for the gamers choice over the 3 next gen consoles, especially pushing themselves further ahead of PS3. This I am sure of; they want to capitalise on the success of Live, and be able to force Kinect into the mainstream. They will also take some PS3 gamers away from their pedestals, and finally settle a score. I don't' think they will care about costs too much, they will keep throwing money at 720 or whatever till it works, pulling gamers into their consumer base, and will most likely make it an awfully powerful machine and with great potential...somehow. I reckon they are watching Nintendo closely here, and would expect there to be a clash at some point. It would be interesting to say the least! Nintendo will hopefully stand to the mark! They haven't competed properly in years. GO NINTENDO!

Don't simply look at the capabilities of mobile devises when considering the power of the rumored Xbox Loop even with an ARM processor it could easily out perform Wii U. However if the rumored Xbox Loop is the next xbox and ARM based it certainly would improve the possibility that Wii U and Xbox next would relatively close in capability.

XBox fan-boys can go ahead and state that the Wii U will have nothing on it, and I know it has been spoken of before that next gen won't be so 'next gen' when it comes to recently-produced hardware, but Microsoft can work very very hard if they want to. Don't quite understand the unintended contrast stated here. But, sounds to me Jikayaki, that you're suggesting ARM will make the 'loop' more powerful for sure, but will be closer to the Wii U's potential in hardware more so than we understand. Don't know how you've come to suggest all of the above, but i'd be interested in reading a link? Would be good to check out new XBox rumours, if there is any. Might be similar to the way Wii U supposedly had information 'leaked' all those months ago, before E3

[Play4Fun]

Wii will most surely be closer to the 720 and PS4 than the Wii is to the current 360 and PS3.

The problem with the Wii is it's ~DX7 GPU didn't have programmable shaders and it didn't have a multi-core CPU which made it extremely hard to scale games down to the system. Next gen though, all the systems will have multi-core CPUs and it'll more than likely come down to WiiU having a DX10.1 GPU while the PS4/720 will end up with a DX11 GPU. We'll have to wait until all the systems are out to see how big of a gap there is between the WiiU and the 720/PS4.

So really in the end, the Wii U should be able to receive better port support. By mid generation (next gen) games running on PS4 and 720 boxes at 1080p and 60FPS can get downscaled to 720p@30fps for wiiu. How good the support is depends on how good a job Nintendo does catering third parties and how well Wii U sells before PS4/720 are released and after.

The gap next gen will be more similar to PS2-GC-Xbox than Wii-360-PS3.

I have no doubt Wii U will get next gen ports since the industry has become so multiplat-dependent. What i'm worried about is how well will devs take advantage of the Wii U tablet. That thing has so much damn potential for gaming it would be an outright shame if it isn't taken as much advantage of as possible.

I'm optimistic that it'll end well though because the tablet isn't a completely new controller like Wii-remote was. It's a familiar dual analog with a screen and other enhancements.

Edited by Play4Fun, 19 November 2011 - 02:19 PM.

[Jikayaki]

Microsoft will most definitely try to round up the pursuit for the gamers choice over the 3 next gen consoles, especially pushing themselves further ahead of PS3. This I am sure of; they want to capitalise on the success of Live, and be able to force Kinect into the mainstream. They will also take some PS3 gamers away from their pedestals, and finally settle a score. I don't' think they will care about costs too much, they will keep throwing money at 720 or whatever till it works, pulling gamers into their consumer base, and will most likely make it an awfully powerful machine and with great potential...somehow. I reckon they are watching Nintendo closely here, and would expect there to be a clash at some point. It would be interesting to say the least! Nintendo will hopefully stand to the mark! They haven't competed properly in years. GO NINTENDO!



XBox fan-boys can go ahead and state that the Wii U will have nothing on it, and I know it has been spoken of before that next gen won't be so 'next gen' when it comes to recently-produced hardware, but Microsoft can work very very hard if they want to. Don't quite understand the unintended contrast stated here. But, sounds to me Jikayaki, that you're suggesting ARM will make the 'loop' more powerful for sure, but will be closer to the Wii U's potential in hardware more so than we understand. Don't know how you've come to suggest all of the above, but i'd be interested in reading a link? Would be good to check out new XBox rumours, if there is any. Might be similar to the way Wii U supposedly had information 'leaked' all those months ago, before E3

All I'm saying is even with ARM architecture its rather easy for Xbox Loop to out perform the Wii U. It certainly isn't a certainty. If the Next Xbox is ARM based its also possible that in some ways the Wii U using more conventional hardware would have some advantages. ARM architecture however would be in Nintendo's favor if it is in the next Xbox. Development for ARM is focused toward mobile devices I doubt creating a chip equivalent to modern desktop chips would be a wise investment to the point that more conventional hardware would cost less.

[MorbidGod]

@play4fun... Nintendo doesn't use Direct so there would be no need for Nintendo to spend money supporting something it doesn't need. It does use Openly however. And as stated before, AND used a similar design for it's 5xxx series which is quite a bit newer. then the 4xxx series. Furthermore, since it is A custom GPU And And Nintendo could have added what they need.

And about ARM... it has been said in 2013 the ARM processors will be equal to what's in the Xbox 360. But Nintendos customer CPU is two generations newer then the PowerPC G5. We DO know that the Wii U professor is based off the Watson CPU which is POWER7 ... which is two generations ahead. It's faster smaller and less heat. So I don't doubt an ARM processor would be powerful and be able to handle itself but it definitely won't surpass what Nintendo is doing.

Although I must admit, I did originally think it would also have a mobile GPU but the rumor did state the Loop will have a AND GPU and a ARM or i7

[chipvader]

Wii will most surely be closer to the 720 and PS4 than the Wii is to the current 360 and PS3.

The problem with the Wii is it's ~DX7 GPU didn't have programmable shaders and it didn't have a multi-core CPU which made it extremely hard to scale games down to the system. Next gen though, all the systems will have multi-core CPUs and it'll more than likely come down to WiiU having a DX10.1 GPU while the PS4/720 will end up with a DX11 GPU. We'll have to wait until all the systems are out to see how big of a gap there is between the WiiU and the 720/PS4.

So really in the end, the Wii U should be able to receive better port support. By mid generation (next gen) games running on PS4 and 720 boxes at 1080p and 60FPS can get downscaled to 720p@30fps for wiiu. How good the support is depends on how good a job Nintendo does catering third parties and how well Wii U sells before PS4/720 are released and after.

The gap next gen will be more similar to PS2-GC-Xbox than Wii-360-PS3.

I have no doubt Wii U will get next gen ports since the industry has become so multiplat-dependent. What i'm worried about is how well will devs take advantage of the Wii U tablet. That thing has so much damn potential for gaming it would be an outright shame if it isn't taken as much advantage of as possible.

I'm optimistic that it'll end well though because the tablet isn't a completely new controller like Wii-remote was. It's a familiar dual analog with a screen and other enhancements.

sorry but wiiu runs on 1080p not 720

[Play4Fun]

sorry but wiiu runs on 1080p not 720

I know Wii-U supports 1080P...

I said by mid-gen games built for PS4 and 720, which will be more powerful than Wii U, will be made to run in 720p so that they run better on Wii U.

[Wertville]

I know Wii-U supports 1080P...

I said by mid-gen games built for PS4 and 720, which will be more powerful than Wii U, will be made to run in 720p so that they run better on Wii U.

Except that's what modern games run at. The Wii U is 6 years later and its power should reflect that.

[Play4Fun]

Except that's what modern games run at. The Wii U is 6 years later and its power should reflect that.

Except that's what modern games run at. The Wii U is 6 years later and its power should reflect that.

Games built FOR the Wii-U will run at 1080P such as first party and 3rd party exclusives.
But since MS and Sony will be launching after Wii U, their consoles will be more powerful than Wii U (though a smaller gap than this gen).

So games built for 720 or PS4 and ported to the Wii-U will have to be down-scaled for Wii-U since it won't handle the exact same things those consoles can. You know, kinda like games that can run on PC this gen are down-scaled  so they can run on PS360?

Why does no one seem to understand what I'm saying?

Edited by Play4Fun, 21 November 2011 - 02:33 AM.

[Eskimo_sam]

maybe cause no one cares.......lol just kidding

[MorbidGod]

But you don't know when the next Xbox and PS4 will come out. Rumor has the new Xbox to be shown this January and released next year. This would mean the Xbox Next would be on par with Wii U. And remember, even if the new consoles come out next year the PS3 and 360 would still be sold and gAmes will still come out for those systems. So it's life cycle could still be for ten years.

[StreetPassWanter]

There has been a rumor lately, apparently EA have receiveed the new dev kits of the Wii U and had this to say

Developers: "Looking at these new dev kits we estimate the Wii U to be 3 - 5 times more powerful then a Ps3 or 360 (300 - 500%)"

EA: "The Wii U can do anything the Ps3 or 360 can do and more, we are very excited with it"

This is on many sites like Kotaku, IGN, Etc. couldnt put a link for some reason though.

If true, I will beg my mom a BILLION times to get this.