51 replies to this topic

[SoldMyWiiU]

Nintendo on not growing up with their audiance, "kiddy games" and much much more

 

 

[LinkKennedy]

I agree completely with what they said.

[DéliopT]

Couldn`t agree less.

By their standards, Zelda could never go the route WW route because people grew and they should get TP, instead. Nevermind that we wouldn`t get a great game like WW, gritty because graphics are what matter.

 

A payout? No way this ever happened.

 

A Mario or Zelda has already been done. But there`s a reason you don`t see it all the time: the userbase won`t most likely be there (sell outs of HW) and why put a game like that to sell a system that will sell by itself and losing a weapon to keep or build momentum?

 

If there`s one thing the gaming market has been showing for years is that graphics don`t matter. No single console won the generation because of how better it`s graphics were compared to the competition.

[Azure-Edge]

I was just going to make a topic on this. Thanks for saving me the trouble.

 

Ugh..I couldn't even bother to get through the first half hour of it. I mean seriously, all they're complaining about is that the games aren't 'dark and gritty'. I thought we had gotten past this BS years ago. I hate this 'mature' mentality. The idea that every damn game needs to specifically cater to the angsty teen/dudebros demographic and needs an M rating. I was there when I was a teen, but I grew out of it so it's really pathetic to hear guys older than myself still saying this crap. There are SO MANY games these days that go for that. Essentially every single 'AAA' title does the 'dark and gritty' look and it's tiring. I'm tired of that and photorealism. It's boring! Developers spend so much time on the dirt and the photorealism that they completely neglect basic artistic aesthetic. They've forgotten that it's not about the pixel density and the texture mapping. It's how you use those to create interesting world. Something Nintendo still does quite well and I never want to see them stop doing. God forbid we have some colors and variety in our games.

 

The huge irony of it is that Nintendo gave people what they're asking for with the Gamecube. It was more powerful than the PS2, it had 'dark and gritty' games (RE4/REmake, Eternal Darkness, Metroid), and it had 'decent' third party support. Guess what, it didn't sell. People spoke with their money and Nintendo listened. In a race with three nearly identical consoles, Nintendo lost out. People chastise the Wii and yet it sold more than either competitors' systems. Nintendo is trying with the Wii U to offer more of what these guys are whining for and yet once again it's not selling. These so called 'core gamers' need to realize that they can whine on youtube until Rich's moobs hang down to the floor, but the only way for them to get through is with their buying decisions. 

 

What kills me in this whole article is the guy claiming to be a 'Nintendo fanboy' says he doesn't even consider the Wii a gaming system. Really? I mean....REALLY? In terms of Nintendo's offerings, the Wii smokes both the Gamecube AND the N64. Sure, there are some IPs we didn't get to see and that sucked, but it was still a solid first party line up. Hell, recently I picked up the Operation Rainfall games and I started out with the one I thought would be the least interesting. I'm having a freaking ball with that game. I love it, and I wouldn't have been able to play it if I didn't have a Wii (well a Wii U now). The system missed out on a lot of games the competition had, but it also had HUGE third party exclusives of its own. It just didn't have yearly rehash releases to fluff it up. Look if your primary means of gaming is FPS then yeah, the Wii wasn't for you. But just because something isn't catering to you doesn't mean it has no value as a gaming system. These two 'real' next-gen consoles hold zero appeal to me so far and yet I still acknowledge they're gaming machines.

 

Nintendo has issues and they've F'd up MAJORLY with the Wii U's first year in almost every possible way. No real account system, tons of games getting delayed, not putting a stop to lazy devs putting out gimped versions of games, etc. But what I can't fault Nintendo for is the quality of their games. That has always been and still is their biggest strength. Their offerings could have been better in the first year and they SHOULD have gotten them out faster (no seriously, they had seven years to learn how to manage HD development. That's complete negligence on their part) but the finished product is still awesome.

 

The biggest problem I've had so far is Nintendo's attempts with third parties, more specifically WHICH third parties they've been going after. Trying to win over EA, Activision, and Ubisoft was just ignorant. The demographics that their games appeal to are not in any way interested in Nintendo. CoD/BF/AC gamers are perfectly content where they're at. Having their games on this system isn't enticing any new buyers and we all knew they were going to gimp their games anyways. All it is doing is giving already Nintendo fans more options on THEIR system, which is not a bad thing, but there were better devs to go after.

 

I think Nintendo should have been seriously going after the major Japanese publishers such as Capcom, SE, and Konami. Now to be fair I have way more love for Japanese games than Western games, so this could be bias on my part, but I think their games appeal to demographics that are already fans of Nintendo. Instead of Nintendo focusing on the 'dude/bro' demographics who already have the complete attention of their competitors and like I said before are happy where they're at, I think Nintendo should have been going more for the RPG/Japanese demographic. All three publishers I mentioned before have had huge success on Nintendo platforms in the past and there is zero reason to think they couldn't now. In fact, all three publishers have had some of their biggest franchises begin on Nintendo systems (Megaman, Final Fantasy, Castlevania). Iwata should have been working his ass off to get these guys on board and to have their franchises on the Wii U. Think about what are the two biggest games people are BEGGING for on the Wii U. FFXV and KH3. 

 

Anyways, end rant. That's my two cents.

[NintendoReport]

Nintendo not growing up with their audience yet you see 30 and 40 year olds dressing up like kids at halloween wearing mario, link, yoshi, luigi and all sorts of outfits standing in line for hours on end waiting for game releases or at a convention for free giveaways. LOLz

 

and don't get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with that!

 

Edited by Sorceror12, 11 November 2013 - 09:04 AM.

[Happy Monk]

I was just going to make a topic on this. Thanks for saving me the trouble.

 

Ugh..I couldn't even bother to get through the first half hour of it. I mean seriously, all they're complaining about is that the games aren't 'dark and gritty'. I thought we had gotten past this BS years ago. I hate this 'mature' mentality. The idea that every damn game needs to specifically cater to the angsty teen/dudebros demographic and needs an M rating. I was there when I was a teen, but I grew out of it so it's really pathetic to hear guys older than myself still saying this crap. There are SO MANY games these days that go for that. Essentially every single 'AAA' title does the 'dark and gritty' look and it's tiring. I'm tired of that and photorealism. It's boring! Developers spend so much time on the dirt and the photorealism that they completely neglect basic artistic aesthetic. They've forgotten that it's not about the pixel density and the texture mapping. It's how you use those to create interesting world. Something Nintendo still does quite well and I never want to see them stop doing. God forbid we have some colors and variety in our games.

 

The huge irony of it is that Nintendo gave people what they're asking for with the Gamecube. It was more powerful than the PS2, it had 'dark and gritty' games (RE4/REmake, Eternal Darkness, Metroid), and it had 'decent' third party support. Guess what, it didn't sell. People spoke with their money and Nintendo listened. In a race with three nearly identical consoles, Nintendo lost out. People chastise the Wii and yet it sold more than either competitors' systems. Nintendo is trying with the Wii U to offer more of what these guys are whining for and yet once again it's not selling. These so called 'core gamers' need to realize that they can whine on youtube until Rich's moobs hang down to the floor, but the only way for them to get through is with their buying decisions. 

 

What kills me in this whole article is the guy claiming to be a 'Nintendo fanboy' says he doesn't even consider the Wii a gaming system. Really? I mean....REALLY? In terms of Nintendo's offerings, the Wii smokes both the Gamecube AND the N64. Sure, there are some IPs we didn't get to see and that sucked, but it was still a solid first party line up. Hell, recently I picked up the Operation Rainfall games and I started out with the one I thought would be the least interesting. I'm having a freaking ball with that game. I love it, and I wouldn't have been able to play it if I didn't have a Wii (well a Wii U now). The system missed out on a lot of games the competition had, but it also had HUGE third party exclusives of its own. It just didn't have yearly rehash releases to fluff it up. Look if your primary means of gaming is FPS then yeah, the Wii wasn't for you. But just because something isn't catering to you doesn't mean it has no value as a gaming system. These two 'real' next-gen consoles hold zero appeal to me so far and yet I still acknowledge they're gaming machines.

 

Nintendo has issues and they've F'd up MAJORLY with the Wii U's first year in almost every possible way. No real account system, tons of games getting delayed, not putting a stop to lazy devs putting out gimped versions of games, etc. But what I can't fault Nintendo for is the quality of their games. That has always been and still is their biggest strength. Their offerings could have been better in the first year and they SHOULD have gotten them out faster (no seriously, they had seven years to learn how to manage HD development. That's complete negligence on their part) but the finished product is still awesome.

 

The biggest problem I've had so far is Nintendo's attempts with third parties, more specifically WHICH third parties they've been going after. Trying to win over EA, Activision, and Ubisoft was just ignorant. The demographics that their games appeal to are not in any way interested in Nintendo. CoD/BF/AC gamers are perfectly content where they're at. Having their games on this system isn't enticing any new buyers and we all knew they were going to gimp their games anyways. All it is doing is giving already Nintendo fans more options on THEIR system, which is not a bad thing, but there were better devs to go after.

 

I think Nintendo should have been seriously going after the major Japanese publishers such as Capcom, SE, and Konami. Now to be fair I have way more love for Japanese games than Western games, so this could be bias on my part, but I think their games appeal to demographics that are already fans of Nintendo. Instead of Nintendo focusing on the 'dude/bro' demographics who already have the complete attention of their competitors and like I said before are happy where they're at, I think Nintendo should have been going more for the RPG/Japanese demographic. All three publishers I mentioned before have had huge success on Nintendo platforms in the past and there is zero reason to think they couldn't now. In fact, all three publishers have had some of their biggest franchises begin on Nintendo systems (Megaman, Final Fantasy, Castlevania). Iwata should have been working his ass off to get these guys on board and to have their franchises on the Wii U. Think about what are the two biggest games people are BEGGING for on the Wii U. FFXV and KH3. 

 

Anyways, end rant. That's my two cents.

Exactly. Although I think Nintendo should keep up what they're doing with Ubisoft and Activision (screw EA) as well as pushing heavily for games from Capcom, Square Enix, Konami and Sega.

It would greatly change Capcom's fortunes and Square Enix's as well. Capcom release games Nintendo fans want to play on consoles they don't own, and when they release games like Monster Hunter on Nintendo platforms it's a huge success everywhere. This industry.

[3Dude]

Critics who treat 'adult' as a term of approval, instead of as a merely descriptive term, cannot be adult themselves. To be concerned about being grown up, to admire the grown up because it is grown up, to blush at the suspicion of being childish; these things are the marks of childhood and adolescence. And in childhood and adolescence they are, in moderation, healthy symptoms. Young things ought to want to grow. But to carry on into middle life or even into early manhood this concern about being adult is a mark of really arrested development. When I was ten, I read fairy tales in secret and would have been ashamed if I had been found doing so. Now that I am fifty I read them openly. When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up. -C.S Lewis

 

Its time for people to grow up.

[magiciandude]

After 10 minutes, I just couldn't listen anymore. I agree with what Azure-Edge said completely. 

[Plutonas]

Well they right, I grow up with atari 2600, snes, gameboy.... I loved my gamecube... But after... I play pc now
 

I want to buy a ps4, but not yet, revision 2 or 3 maybe. not at release date. Because I love to play " THE ORDER ".

 

As for the wii U, a friend of mine works in an online magazine with reviews and he is in the nintendo section. He only tells me, when I ask him " shall I buy wii U ", he says " NOT NOW".

 

I could get ps4 or wii U right now, but I decided to go sli or crossfire in my pc, but since I decided that, I have to upgrade cpu and mobo too! So I will stick with it for now.

 

also there is still numerous articles about ranting wii U, even today!!! read

http://mynintendonew...this-christmas/

 

http://www.fool.com/...-the-wii-u.aspx

 

I dont know... But I see some increased sales latelly, out of nothing... Up to 80.000 consoles per week.

Edited by Plutonas, 11 November 2013 - 01:35 PM.

[LinkKennedy]

The reasons I agree is that I do feel Nintendo abandon their core audience like they said and started this small trend of trying to appeal to people who don't normally play games. They did not grow with us(me) and I for one do appreciate a good story and the big N doesn't focus on that; they still make games like they use to. Granted like the men in the video said their making great stuff but that's exactly what frustrates me and many who grew up playing Nintendo is that they could of easily dominated these current systems if they had focused themselves to the "hardcore" gamer who want to see a game like Half-Life,The Last Of Us, Mass Effect, Journey, Heavy Rain, etc.

I don't think Nintendo is doing games for me and it's pretty obvious with the wii who they focused on and the wiiu as awesome as that console is, it's failing due to the actions taken with their last console. Seriously my most anticipated WiiU titles are Zelda,X, and Metriod and the reasons are simple great gameplay is a given but the possibility of story, character and great visual wonders are there. Games are really maturing in that they can tell story's and express themselves to the point were certain subjects were not even thought of in video games can be accomplish.

[Lightning_Ninja]

The only thing I heard in that video that I agreed with is the lack of marketing.  There are a lot of families and young children who would buy it if they were aware of it's existence.  If they can get that group to be properly aware, they would at least have significant sales.  Otherwise this video was hard to watch, and I usually like watching Rich's videos, even if I don't always agree.

[Rockodoodle]

I agree that they should have had more games out by now- Donkey Kong, star fox, metroid and a new zelda.  I'm fine with the selection, but I think they would sell more if they did.

[Aiddon]

y'know, Rich typically does have a good head on his shoulders and does make intelligent comments and opinions...but when it comes to Nintendo this guy turns into a friggin' silly pony. He just doesn't seem to get how the company operates and them being successful seems to irritate him. He's basically asking for Nintendo to stop being Nintendo and that is STUPID and ignorant. Oh, they don't offer any of shallow, insecure grim 'n gritty stuff? Whoop-dee-doo, neither do a lot of studios. To me this is a classic example of man acting like HIS problems are Nintendo's. They're not. It's not Nintendo's fault that you steered towards the "mature" games out of some desperate need for approval.

[Kokirii]

Critics who treat 'adult' as a term of approval, instead of as a merely descriptive term, cannot be adult themselves. To be concerned about being grown up, to admire the grown up because it is grown up, to blush at the suspicion of being childish; these things are the marks of childhood and adolescence. And in childhood and adolescence they are, in moderation, healthy symptoms. Young things ought to want to grow. But to carry on into middle life or even into early manhood this concern about being adult is a mark of really arrested development. When I was ten, I read fairy tales in secret and would have been ashamed if I had been found doing so. Now that I am fifty I read them openly. When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up. -C.S Lewis

 

Its time for people to grow up.

 

Great quote! Going in my sig

[Azure-Edge]

y'know, Rich typically does have a good head on his shoulders and does make intelligent comments and opinions...but when it comes to Nintendo this guy turns into a friggin' silly pony. He just doesn't seem to get how the company operates and them being successful seems to irritate him. He's basically asking for Nintendo to stop being Nintendo and that is STUPID and ignorant. Oh, they don't offer any of shallow, insecure grim 'n gritty stuff? Whoop-dee-doo, neither do a lot of studios. To me this is a classic example of man acting like HIS problems are Nintendo's. They're not. It's not Nintendo's fault that you steered towards the "mature" games out of some desperate need for approval.

 

To be fair, I've been watching for Reviewtech for a long time now, and Rich is a lot of things but he's no pony. He's actually one of the few people who has honestly given the Wii U a fair shot and sees it for both the goods and the bads. In fact, I'd say he has been one of the systems' strongest supporters outside of people who just come across as pure fanboys. He's not exactly wrong when he said they had a shot of knocking it out of the park this gen (There were going to be some things against them as always but they could have been so much more prepared). 

 

Where he is wrong though is acting as if there is something wrong with what Nintendo is doing based on nothing more than aesthetics, which is what I got out of that video. Whether or now people want to admit it, this industry NEEDS Nintendo. They need Nintendo to pump in fresh ideas and new concepts as well as basically being the only major company to go after the younger demographic and not treat them as second class consumers. Why in the hell would it be smart for them to give up doing what has made them money and instead try to compete for a demographic that is already getting so oversaturated that sales are going down? Do I think Nintendo could make a 'mature' game? Sure, and maybe that's what these guys are so annoyed about. They want to see one of the biggest and very best company show everyone else how it's done. But it's not their forte and that group is already well cared for.

 

Nintendo is basically the DIsney of gaming. They have the most iconic characters and appeal to the young while not abandoning the truly mature (C'mon, we all know you guys love to watch some classic Disney). They don't need to make gritty action movies because they already have their niche and they excel at it. 

[Aiddon]

To be fair, I've been watching for Reviewtech for a long time now, and Rich is a lot of things but he's no pony. He's actually one of the few people who has honestly given the Wii U a fair shot and sees it for both the goods and the bads. In fact, I'd say he has been one of the systems' strongest supporters outside of people who just come across as pure fanboys. He's not exactly wrong when he said they had a shot of knocking it out of the park this gen (There were going to be some things against them as always but they could have been so much more prepared). 

 

Where he is wrong though is acting as if there is something wrong with what Nintendo is doing based on nothing more than aesthetics, which is what I got out of that video. Whether or now people want to admit it, this industry NEEDS Nintendo. They need Nintendo to pump in fresh ideas and new concepts as well as basically being the only major company to go after the younger demographic and not treat them as second class consumers. Why in the hell would it be smart for them to give up doing what has made them money and instead try to compete for a demographic that is already getting so oversaturated that sales are going down? Do I think Nintendo could make a 'mature' game? Sure, and maybe that's what these guys are so annoyed about. They want to see one of the biggest and very best company show everyone else how it's done. But it's not their forte and that group is already well cared for.

 

Nintendo is basically the DIsney of gaming. They have the most iconic characters and appeal to the young while not abandoning the truly mature (C'mon, we all know you guys love to watch some classic Disney). They don't need to make gritty action movies because they already have their niche and they excel at it. 

 

it's not even just that; whenever it comes to talking about business he clearly has no clue about how Japanese businesses work and he has trouble understanding that (or just admitting it). I still remember when he whined about Nintendo saying they needed to 'fire Iwata' and "get fresh blood in there." Dear Buddha, read up on Japanese corporate culture, ya fool. It's a problem that a LOT of people have when it comes to Nintendo: they don't understand that Nintendo operates differently and there's no REASON for them to change that especially when the system they have works and they're still profitable. It's just so bloody overdramatic

[Rockodoodle]

Good post.  I don't think Nintendo has to abandon what they are doing, but I do think that maybe they could go a little "darker"/"mature" with Zelda and/or Metroid or other IPs.  They have $11 billion in cash.  How much does it cost to develop a game?  Why don't they have more games now?  Donkey Kong, Mario 3d should have been ready last spring. The new Zelda should be coming out now with Mario Kart and Smash Bros- if not now, then in Jan./Feb.  Star Fox/Metroid should be on the slate.  

 

 

 

To be fair, I've been watching for Reviewtech for a long time now, and Rich is a lot of things but he's no pony. He's actually one of the few people who has honestly given the Wii U a fair shot and sees it for both the goods and the bads. In fact, I'd say he has been one of the systems' strongest supporters outside of people who just come across as pure fanboys. He's not exactly wrong when he said they had a shot of knocking it out of the park this gen (There were going to be some things against them as always but they could have been so much more prepared). 

 

Where he is wrong though is acting as if there is something wrong with what Nintendo is doing based on nothing more than aesthetics, which is what I got out of that video. Whether or now people want to admit it, this industry NEEDS Nintendo. They need Nintendo to pump in fresh ideas and new concepts as well as basically being the only major company to go after the younger demographic and not treat them as second class consumers. Why in the hell would it be smart for them to give up doing what has made them money and instead try to compete for a demographic that is already getting so oversaturated that sales are going down? Do I think Nintendo could make a 'mature' game? Sure, and maybe that's what these guys are so annoyed about. They want to see one of the biggest and very best company show everyone else how it's done. But it's not their forte and that group is already well cared for.

 

Nintendo is basically the DIsney of gaming. They have the most iconic characters and appeal to the young while not abandoning the truly mature (C'mon, we all know you guys love to watch some classic Disney). They don't need to make gritty action movies because they already have their niche and they excel at it. 

[Azure-Edge]

it's not even just that; whenever it comes to talking about business he clearly has no clue about how Japanese businesses work and he has trouble understanding that (or just admitting it). I still remember when he whined about Nintendo saying they needed to 'fire Iwata' and "get fresh blood in there." Dear Buddha, read up on Japanese corporate culture, ya fool. It's a problem that a LOT of people have when it comes to Nintendo: they don't understand that Nintendo operates differently and there's no REASON for them to change that especially when the system they have works and they're still profitable. It's just so bloody overdramatic

 

I agree with you there. Rich has a lot of insight and a lot of brains when it comes to subjects he's knowledgeable about such as PCs and tech and whatnot, but he's definitely no business genius. I find it ironic that they have an hour long video about Nintendo's 'problem' and yet from a business perspective they're the only ones out of the big three to be doing well. MS has never made a profit on the Xbox brand and the PS3 lost Sony pretty much everything they made with their first two systems. 

 

To Rockodoodle: They tried the 'darker' route with Twilight Princess. Wasn't really all that great. They tried telling a 'mature' story with Other M and people just down right despise that game (In my opinion unfairly). If there's one thing I've learned, it's that people rarely respond as expected when given what they say they want. As for the games thing. Part of that is on Nintendo being stupid, but the other part is simply that it takes time to make games and they're not going to throw out all their biggest names at once and over saturate their own system. 

[BrandedSwordsman]

Metroid should have stayed dark and gritty like the tech demo? Prime looked flat? The Prime Trilogy feature some of the most unique and vibrant worlds in video games. They would have looked "flat" if they featured an mature grey and brown style like you wanted.

[Aiddon]

Good post.  I don't think Nintendo has to abandon what they are doing, but..

 

As Benjen Stark said "Nothing before 'but' really counts"; Nintendo are not going to force themselves to be something they are not. They are not interested in M-rated BS or insecure "darker" schlock. They have ONE mission statement: to make games that are FUN and that people of all ages, walks of life, and skill levels can enjoy.