35 replies to this topic

[Socalmuscle]

If you create a premium package with the tablet controller for those who want it, then you create a normal package for those who want a standard controller, there's going to be an uproar from those who have no interest in the tablet controller, but feel as though they are getting a 'lesser deal' because they don't want the tablet controller. It could backfire and end up isolating potential purchasers.

Also this whole forcing mandatory stuff onto gamers is precisely why I think the PS4 will outsell the Wii U and Xbox One substantially. People don't want this stuff forced onto them. Sony have understood this which is why they aren't forcing the PS Camera onto PS4 users. If users want that accessory they can purchase it at any time. There's the option and consumers really like being given choice, they don't want to be forced into buying something they don't necessarily want.

It takes vision.

Gaming needs to move forward and it's largely mandatory changes that do that.

Nintendo revolutionized 3d movement with the analog stick. Some folks at first didn't want that. But it turned out for the best.

Motion controls on the wii were necessary.

And things like the kinect on xbox one are definitely part of the whole experience. In games like Ryse for example, it's essential In a good way.

Ps4 is doing well for a few reasons: the most powerful hardware, great marketing messaging, and also as backlash against xbox one which was sending abusive messaging under mattricks leadership.

Not because it lacks a camera, which it really should have included. Since it's not, it won't advance nearly as much as kinect will. And in my experience, kinect handily outperforms the ps4 camera in every way, including responsiveness. I don't think they made it optional simply due to price. It simply doesn't compete.

The touch pad on the controller is a half step.

But at least they have embraced "the world around them" by using apps on smart devices to add value to the ps4. Smart move.

Basically the ps4 is seen as the hero to microsofts villain. And all over the internet, all you read is x1 bashing and ps4 praise. That's not because they didn't include the camera. It's because they distanced themselves from ms in their messaging.bat a time when ms was still talking about forced online, forced kinect (you CAN now make it optional-though after purchase), daily check on, no game trades or sales, etc. and then Sony sounding like the hero. A lower price, stronger hardware and kinder messaging is an easy reason yo see them strong. But the lack of a camera does hold them back. Even the wii u has a camera standard on the gamepad.

So it's not so much talking about gimmicks as it is talking about a real reason for certain features to exist. With the wii u, it hasn't been proven, with the x1, it's very well executed. With ps4, it could have been, but it wasn't ready for prime time.

With the next system, Nintendo simply needs to make sure it can't be perceived as a gimmick. It need to satisfy the demand for traditional gaming, while amplifying all types of gaming with ant ever they come up with - in other words, something's that adds without taking away (ie: the analog stick only added, didn't remove functionality), the gamepad adds screen, doesn't remove anything), kinect adds voice and movement control. Removes nothing, etc.

Edited by Socalmuscle, 21 January 2014 - 02:57 AM.

[SailtheSeas]

Well i actually think those that say the gamepad doesnt intrest them are the one that have NEVER played the console. Nintendo problem is they do design their systems around an experience somethng you wont "GET" until you pick it up and play it. i actually think the gamepad is a gamechanger and i play games on gamepad more than i do the tv it is just a convenience in a house with 3 kids and a wife. I think the problems is Nintendo havent done enough to justify the system manily the gamepad. We were told the system can support two gamepad and we havent seen one game built around that yet (correct me if i am wrong).  Nintendo marketing have been HORRIBLE i do think upping the marketing will help a lot which i hope they do this year ( they have said they will) but words from them mean nothing to me at this point.  So yes i do think this "FAILURE" if you were to call it that SHOULD wake nintendo... SHOULD i hope. Notice the trends, spend some money, and move a little outside their box. Manly all Nintendo needs to do is balance. Bring n64/gamecube games to VC, give us the ip's we havent seen (starfox, f-zero), and new ones, and invest in more studios because 3rd parties have made it clear you are last on their list.  

 

You make a series of valid points, but someone will know instantly whether or not they want to use the tablet controller. When I first saw the Wii U, the gamepad and the series of games that were listed at E3, I instantly knew that I wanted this console and a few weeks later I was at home setting up the Wii U.

 

If you go onto Gamespot or IGN, two websites I frequent often, there are lots of gamers who have expressed their disinterest or dislike for the gamepad. They see it as gimmicky and they see it as something which has really bumped up the retail price of the console. They just don't want the hardware that Nintendo is offering with the Wii U.

 

Also given the fact that Nintendo's marketing has been lacklustre, they haven't really given the consumer any incentive to take a blind bit of notice of the Wii U. As for the tablet controller being a gamechanger, I disagree entirely, I don't think it will replace the conventional controller and I don't think it's ever going to take off (at least not in its current format).

It takes vision.

Gaming needs to move forward and it's largely mandatory changes that do that.

Nintendo revolutionized 3d movement with the analog stick. Some folks at first didn't want that. But it turned out for the best.

Motion controls on the wii were necessary.

And things like the kinect on xbox one are definitely part of the whole experience. In games like Ryse for example, it's essential In a good way.

Ps4 is doing well for a few reasons: the most powerful hardware, great marketing messaging, and also as backlash against xbox one which was sending abusive messaging under mattricks leadership.

Not because it lacks a camera, which it really should have included. Since it's not, it won't advance nearly as much as kinect will. And in my experience, kinect handily outperforms the ps4 camera in every way, including responsiveness. I don't think they made it optional simply due to price. It simply doesn't compete.

The touch pad on the controller is a half step.

But at least they have embraced "the world around them" by using apps on smart devices to add value to the ps4. Smart move.

Basically the ps4 is seen as the hero to microsofts villain. And all over the internet, all you read is x1 bashing and ps4 praise. That's not because they didn't include the camera. It's because they distanced themselves from ms in their messaging.bat a time when ms was still talking about forced online, forced kinect (you CAN now make it optional-though after purchase), daily check on, no game trades or sales, etc. and then Sony sounding like the hero. A lower price, stronger hardware and kinder messaging is an easy reason yo see them strong. But the lack of a camera does hold them back. Even the wii u has a camera standard on the gamepad.

So it's not so much talking about gimmicks as it is talking about a real reason for certain features to exist. With the wii u, it hasn't been proven, with the x1, it's very well executed. With ps4, it could have been, but it wasn't ready for prime time.

With the next system, Nintendo simply needs to make sure it can't be perceived as a gimmick. It need to satisfy the demand for traditional gaming, while amplifying all types of gaming with ant ever they come up with - in other words, something's that adds without taking away (ie: the analog stick only added, didn't remove functionality), the gamepad adds screen, doesn't remove anything), kinect adds voice and movement control. Removes nothing, etc.

 

The Wii motion controllers have been so revolutionary that both the PS4 and Xbox One still use your standard controller with buttons? Come on! The Wii Motion controllers worked with the Wii, but they were never going to have a lasting impact, in the same way the tablet controller or the Kinect will not have a last effect on the industry. They are gimmicks which are a passing fad, nothing more, nothing less.

 

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

[GAMER1984]

You make a series of valid points, but someone will know instantly whether or not they want to use the tablet controller. When I first saw the Wii U, the gamepad and the series of games that were listed at E3, I instantly knew that I wanted this console and a few weeks later I was at home setting up the Wii U.

 

If you go onto Gamespot or IGN, two websites I frequent often, there are lots of gamers who have expressed their disinterest or dislike for the gamepad. They see it as gimmicky and they see it as something which has really bumped up the retail price of the console. They just don't want the hardware that Nintendo is offering with the Wii U.

 

Also given the fact that Nintendo's marketing has been lacklustre, they haven't really given the consumer any incentive to take a blind bit of notice of the Wii U. As for the tablet controller being a gamechanger, I disagree entirely, I don't think it will replace the conventional controller and I don't think it's ever going to take off (at least not in its current format).

 

The Wii motion controllers have been so revolutionary that both the PS4 and Xbox One still use your standard controller with buttons? Come on! The Wii Motion controllers worked with the Wii, but they were never going to have a lasting impact, in the same way the tablet controller or the Kinect will not have a last effect on the industry. They are gimmicks which are a passing fad, nothing more, nothing less.

 

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

 

so tired of the gimmick word. gamers use it to try and put down anything nintendo does that is different or Nintendo thinks is the next thing to take gaming forward. Wii remote was a gimmick to a lot of people until playstation move was released then it became a viable controller option.

[SailtheSeas]

so tired of the gimmick word. gamers use it to try and put down anything nintendo does that is different or Nintendo thinks is the next thing to take gaming forward. Wii remote was a gimmick to a lot of people until playstation move was released then it became a viable controller option.

 

I don't think I can use any of other word than gimmick for the tablet contoller. Nintendo have pushed this controller, yet apart from the off-TV mode I have hardly used it for any games with the exception of Nintendo Land and The Wonderful 101.

 

As for the motion controllers, like the tablet controller I enjoy using them, but again it was never going to take off. Also Sony's Playstation move stuff never really took off. Most gamers aren't interested in all these innovative peripherals. Rightly or wrongly they are seen as gimmicks, gimmicks which mask lower technology in the consoles themselves. Now I don't necessarily agree with this statement, but it is what it is.

 

Michel Ancel the creative genius behind Rayman said a few months ago that Nintendo's biggest strength and biggest weakness is its desire to constantly innovate. They hit the right note in 2006 with the launch of the Wii, they had the right product at the right time. They've got it horribly wrong with the Wii U, they thought lightning would strike twice and the fact they chose to rush the console out with not one single compelling software release, virtually no marketing and with a sales forecast of 9 million only goes to highlight just how out of touch Nintendo have been.

 

Nintendo's biggest strength is the innovation of their software, no other developer creates games like Nintendo. When it comes to games development, no other studio can rival any studio belonging to Nintendo, but their weakness is their hardware and it has been for years.

[Auzzie Wingman]

Well i actually think those that say the gamepad doesnt intrest them are the one that have NEVER played the console. Nintendo problem is they do design their systems around an experience somethng you wont "GET" until you pick it up and play it. i actually think the gamepad is a gamechanger and i play games on gamepad more than i do the tv it is just a convenience in a house with 3 kids and a wife. I think the problems is Nintendo havent done enough to justify the system manily the gamepad. We were told the system can support two gamepad and we havent seen one game built around that yet (correct me if i am wrong).  Nintendo marketing have been HORRIBLE i do think upping the marketing will help a lot which i hope they do this year ( they have said they will) but words from them mean nothing to me at this point.  So yes i do think this "FAILURE" if you were to call it that SHOULD wake nintendo... SHOULD i hope. Notice the trends, spend some money, and move a little outside their box. Manly all Nintendo needs to do is balance. Bring n64/gamecube games to VC, give us the ip's we havent seen (starfox, f-zero), and new ones, and invest in more studios because 3rd parties have made it clear you are last on their list.  

 

I think there are plenty of owners, myself included, who don't think too big of the Gamepad's functions. I don't believe it to be as game changing as you say. I don't think all of those ideas are going to help the Wii U either. But never mind that, this is a thread to discuss what we'd like Nintendo to do with their next console, not the Wii U.

 

The first thing to address what the next console should do. We're now in a market where there are plenty of people content with using cheaper mobile devices like tablets and phones. I think any hardware developer should abuse that at this point, and get their systems to have some sort of connection with those devices. At least, it will no longer be against that market, as it can be integrated. As crap as they are, the PS4 tried with Companion Apps. The apps themselves have proven a craptasm, but the concept of having the console connected to whatever phone you are using for a bit of an edge could become a bonus if done right. It should be at least capable of all multimedia functions currently accessible to all consoles. People will complain about one or two functions and it can have the deciding vote for whatever reason goes through a person's mind. The less you skimp on, the more that the games will be the decider becomes true.

 

Another thing they should be doing is having a well integrated network. The whole shebang. Miiverse quickly lost it's relevance and just became an overly modded drawing board. Users should be allowed to create communities, and have their own control of what happens in the community. The online store should be easier to navigate and all titles should be downloadable. Everything should be clear and not based on these 'channels and icons' design crap. The online should be sufficient and not restricted for third party developers.

 

I'm not gonna ask for the best hardware spec wise, but it should be decent enough and easy to develop on so that no third party can use the excuses that they've gotten away with the Wii U. If it can do that and run as quietly and as cooled as the Wii U, that's a bonus.

 

The controller shouldn't force new control designs. It should be like your standard controller, and if they want to add something to it, it needs to be simple, easy to access and this time around, not painful to one's neck. A nice long battery life and a nice feel to the hands.

 

The software, and more specifically the launch software. Nintendo has tried to let third parties have first dibs on their launches twice, and both times the result has been less than stellar. Nintendo doesn't have good relations with third parties to begin with so they should focus more on rolling out first party titles at a breakneck speed for the first year.

 

What a launch lineup shouldn't look like:

2-3 first party titles that aren't particularly stellar

5 party titles

4-8 major third party titles of which most are gimped

 

What a launch lineup should look like:

4-5 first party titles, 3 of which can be experimental and attempting to highlight new controls, 1-2 of which are solid Game of the Year material. Ambitious, I know, but the sooner they can hold ground with their own Nintendo quality, the better. Wouldn't hurt for one of these titles to come off as 'too adult for Nintendo'. They should broaden what kind of games they think they are allowed to make.

2-3 party titles, no gimping

Any relevant major third party titles at the time, no gimping

1-2 console exclusive third party titles, less focus on trying to be a game that can only be made for the console and more focus on a game that the other consoles wish they could play

A first party title, online only, attempts to put Nintendo on the MMO map. Free to download. If it has that Nintendo quality with a stellar performance, people aren't gonna mind shelling out for DLC add-ons.

 

So what kind of titles are we talking about here? Here's a few things they could do.

 

- Mario Kart 9: It's been proven, people get hyped over Mario Kart. I don't know why, but they do. And so, one of their launch titles should be one with known online capabilities and likeability. They'd also be in a position to expand this game's life through DLC. The first DLC pack should be tracks that are a little out of Mario's way if you get what I mean, just to build even more hype.

 

- Nintendo VS Capcom: Well, what could sell a system more than the hypest fighting game never to have existed or been confirmed. Seriously, if they did this, if they did this, the only thing left to wait on is Arcsys VS Capcom and then I can die happy. So bloody happy.

 

But seriously, this stuff could easily replace UMvC3 as the hypest fighting game if done right. Capcom likes to make reachable complexities in their fighting games. You tag team that with the rather unorthodox fighters of Nintendo and all you need to do is order a pizza.

 

- Golden Sun/Earthbound HD: Yeah, I just suggested that. I just suggested that they should port a 2D RPG classic from older hardware into a HD model of itself. I just suggested something that would make every old person on this forum cringe so hard that their final exams would shrink. This is the kind of cringe that would be turned upside down and into joy the second Nintendo release any form of media of it onto the public. And you know it. Deep down you know that this is the kind of game you want, and you don't even realise it. You refuse to let it into your soul because you can't handle it.

 

It's so far left field, that it does it's job: it becomes a radar blip to any gamer.

 

- Mario Sports Mix: This one is a little off field. They can make something of this, something more fun than Wii Sports. The idea isn't to cater to the casuals. The idea is to make casuals into gamers. The Wii range is too basic for that. Mario Sports Mix can become competitive for these kinds of gamers.

 

-- Those are just random ideas that kind of fit the bill of what a first party title at launch should have, but giving room for more powerful ones, like a fully fledged Mario Action Adventure, a Zelda title, but not so much shooting straight to a safe title like a 2D mario or a gimmick display which they should just seriously stop doing. At the very least it would have MK9 (or 10 if we think the 3DS gets succeeded first), which is pretty much a system.... WHEN THE SYSTEM FIRST RELEASES! --

 

Now, to the MMO. Just another 'new' for Nintendo to do that will really make people rethink if Nintendo just wants to play safe and stale all day. The two IP's I actually had in mind were Metroid or Sin and Punishment. Every time I think about the attack on Norion at the beginning of Metroid Prime 3, I keep thinking this is actually a pretty good start point for making a unique online multiplayer battlefield. It wouldn't be so much versus as it would be working together against rapidly changing environments and AI. The more you explore the battlefield instead of staying on the frontline, the more you realise there are a ton of background operations you can effect during the fight, such as keeping cannons maintained and powered up, to being part of espionage teams.  And of course with it, all the gadgets and weaponry that you'd expect from a Metroid game.

 

As for Sin and Punishment, I just imagine flying through ruins at high speed Shingeki no Kyojin style. Throw in a class system, make it feel like a community-based RPG on crack and hey presto! A mature game by Nintendo loved by everyone who isn't a casual.

 

...

Well, that was a tedious task to type up. I wasn't even paying attention half the time. This Wawrinka vs Djokovic match in the Australian Open is way too hype right now.

[grahamf]

It might be too late to start selling a version of the Wii U without the gamepad.

 

Aside from the fact that the OS currently depends on it for nearly all functions, games currently published would have to be patched to remove the requirement for the gamepad. That would require a mandatory download that screws people with little or no internet, and causes confusion because existing packaging won't distinguish between if the gamepad is optional or required. Kind of the same issue Microsoft has with the Kinect.

 

Overall I believe Nintendo is stuck with the Wii U for (at the bare minimum) three more years, with any attempts of an earlier replacement being suicide. All they can do is work on marketing and games. it's still a fundamentally sound system and neither it and the 3DS is going to bankrupt the company no matter what short-sighted analysts say.

[Socalmuscle]

You make a series of valid points, but someone will know instantly whether or not they want to use the tablet controller. When I first saw the Wii U, the gamepad and the series of games that were listed at E3, I instantly knew that I wanted this console and a few weeks later I was at home setting up the Wii U.

If you go onto Gamespot or IGN, two websites I frequent often, there are lots of gamers who have expressed their disinterest or dislike for the gamepad. They see it as gimmicky and they see it as something which has really bumped up the retail price of the console. They just don't want the hardware that Nintendo is offering with the Wii U.

Also given the fact that Nintendo's marketing has been lacklustre, they haven't really given the consumer any incentive to take a blind bit of notice of the Wii U. As for the tablet controller being a gamechanger, I disagree entirely, I don't think it will replace the conventional controller and I don't think it's ever going to take off (at least not in its current format).

The Wii motion controllers have been so revolutionary that both the PS4 and Xbox One still use your standard controller with buttons? Come on! The Wii Motion controllers worked with the Wii, but they were never going to have a lasting impact, in the same way the tablet controller or the Kinect will not have a last effect on the industry. They are gimmicks which are a passing fad, nothing more, nothing less.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

Get real. The wii motion controllers are what led to a kinect and ps move.

It made a huge impact.

And now, we are seeing a refinement of those technologies. Kinect is microsofts take on motion control (as well as other ene elements) and move is built into the ds4 controller. Sounds like you just killed your "point."

Even the wii u supports a variety of motion control now, both with packed in tech and accessories. Btw, the wii u gamepad is essentially a standard controller with standard buttons, just with the added benefit of a screen, camera, and mic. Like the dual shock 4 on steroids. A good thing. Not bad.

The next console will likely continue nintendos trend of innovation.

Edited by Socalmuscle, 21 January 2014 - 04:44 AM.

[SailtheSeas]

.

The next console will likely continue nintendos trend of innovation.

 

We'll see and I hope I'm wrong, but Nintendo from what I can see has never been more isolated from the games industry than it is at the moment.

 

For all of Nintendo's innovation with the tablet controller, consumers don't seem to want it. Maybe this will change when more of Nintendo's AAA titles are released, we shall see.

 

I thought a price drop, WWHD and SM3DW would drastically change the Wii U's fortunes and it hasn't. I hope Mario Kart 8 is able to really get SKU's out of shops and into people's homes.

 

You mention all of these devices and yet none of them have had a massive impact. The standard controller is just what people want to use, in the same way gaming keyboards and gaming mice are more popular for FPS's on the PC than wired and wireless controllers.

 

The Kinect is not popular at all, when Microsoft announced it was a mandatory component of Xbox One, it isolated a lot of gamers and will have lost Microsoft a lot of potential customers.

 

Once Sony gets their supply and demand situation sorted out, you'll see the PS4 smash the competition to smithereens.

[JMP317]

I personally hope there is still some variation of the gamepad on the next console. When it is used properly it makes gaming better IMO. Maps, inventories, etc are great on the gamepad but outside of gaming it has a number of perks as well. The gamepad works very well with my TV. I dont really need to use any other controller to manipulate cable/tv. I love browsing the internet with it, and it kinda has made my Ipad worthless outside of apps. Being able to use one controller (with touch screen) and easily go from games to TV to Internet is great.  I also find using the gamepad to play games or browse the internet any where in my house without the tv to be a huge plus. The Wii U is my favorite console ever and mainly because of the gamepad. I like the idea of having a gaming console that is also used as a center piece of all entertainment like the Xbone aims to do (which I feel Nintendo has kinda done here). The Wii U would be a "perfect" console with these changes/upgrades:

 

1. Ability to play Blu-Ray and CDs

2. More range/Wifi on gamepad

3. The ability to manipulate my surround sound system with gamepad

4. More apps

5. Ability to take gamepad any where and play games  

[Raiden]

I think it's 4 years early for this kind of talk for me..but what the hell. Wii U after this year will have a healthy lifecycle. Maybe it will suprise everyone and sell 80 million. PS3 did. maybe sell worse than GameCube(at least GCN made profit tho). I do not think it will be worse than GCN tho. Maybe at worst 35mil closer to N64 and maybe a moderate 50 like SNES.

 

As for the next system. I don't think about it much. I won't do specs as that's Sony/MS thing now. Nintendo stopped the spec war after GCN. I think the idea similar to the faked Fusion idea is not all that bad. I been wanting a way to play my DS games with Wii and now 3DS with Wii U. People say resolution but Game Boy Player looked great and Super Game Boy did well and up scaling. So a more powerful WiiU like console (tho Wii u has plenty of power for consoles now..many just like to believe not) ..also I am no Kinect fan but if anyone can do something like that and make it near flawless it's Nintendo. MS bungled it. As long as it's not the main gimmick. Still like that to be the Gamepad and 3DS games. Wii U already has Bluetooth 4.0 and 5.1 Surround. (funny PS4 only uses Bluetooth 2.1)  Also maybe since you see people now traveling with the Wii U playing them on trains and airports wherever a socket is near. Maybe can make the console itself have lithium rechargeable batteries. Batt lif 4-6 hours which is enough for most. So not 100% portable but 100% luggable.

[grahamf]

What's the bandwidth for that strange port on the bottom of the gamepad? Maybe Nintendo could create a DS game adaptor that plugs into that port.

[MorbidGod]

Well I don't see how it can be anything other than a gimmick, because there's no real use for the tablet controller. At least with the Wii motion controllers they served an actual purpose, the same cannot be said for the tablet controller.

Also the 3DS has a high-install base, yet third party developers are few and far between, so what makes you think that things will be different with the Wii U?

Just because there is no use for it doesn't mean Nintendo shouldn't have done it. You're looking at the glass half empty.

You see no games using the Gamepad, and the only way to fix that is to remove the Gamepad. Oh, Nintendo shouldn't have made it!

I see hardly any games using the Gamepad, and I ask why isn't Nintendo? Why didn't they launch the Wii U with a game like ZombiU (that they developed) that used the Gamepad? Why let a third party show you how to use the controller?

Nintendo's problem is they didn't have games to support the Gamepad. Not that they made the Gamepad.

Let's look at it this way. Say the Wii U had a Power 7 processor. Was able to make better graphics then any PC or anything known to man.

Ywt at launch they only released 16 bit games. Would you say "It's a gimmick! Don't make powerful systems! The market doesn't want that!" Or would you say "Nintendo, you have this awesome powerful console ... Use it!"

That's what I say Nintendo needs to do NOW, and sadly so far they AREN'T.

Anyway, this post is about the future. Nintendo needs to realize a home console is more than a gaming machine. I think MS Xbox One has the chance to win this generation because of the casual market. Nintendo should have realized that the casual's would upgrade if they had a wicked cool entertainment system like the Xbox One is. But they didn't focus on that.

So the next console should have a heavy focus on streaming content. On voice control. I should be able to say, "Wii U on" and it turns on.

Second, they need not forget about the games. When they have a Nintendo direct, only talk about the games. At E3, only talk about the games. If voice control helps with the games -- talk about it. They need at least one third party exclusive AND they need to help develop it. Maybe co develop a title with Ubisoft. This way they make sure the quality is there. And they need ONE triple A game. Traditionally a 3D Mario. And then whatever other developers want yo release. HOWEVER make sure you have one game released every quarter. Either a third party exclusive or your own game.

Lastly, they need to go on the Today show. Maybe work with them to have a ten minute segment of all the other cool non gaming features and show off the latest Wii U Fit (or whatever they call it then). This is a good way to get non gamers interested in the new console.

Also, LET IT BE ABLE TO DO 4K VIDEO AT LEAST. I'm not sure 4K gaming is coming in the next five years, but 4K video needs to be supported.

The question is, why can't they do most if what I said now?

[SailtheSeas]

You raise solid points and I will wind this down because it's apparent we have different views.

 

The tablet controller is a gimmick and while I like it, it's execution has been poor. It's as though Nintendo just released the tablet controller for the "hell of it". Apart from the two games I've mentioned that utilise the gamepad, the other ten games I own do not. If I was given the choice of buying the Wii U with a Pro Controller or the tablet controller, I'd pick the Pro Controller everytime and so would many other gamers. 

 

The Wii U tablet controller is one gimmick too many for the consumer and while it is not the main reason the console is struggling, the controller has put off numerous consumers who want a standard controller. They don't want to have to buy a console with mandatory peripheral they don't need nor want.

 

We'll agree to disagree.

[MorbidGod]

If you create a premium package with the tablet controller for those who want it, then you create a normal package for those who want a standard controller, there's going to be an uproar from those who have no interest in the tablet controller, but feel as though they are getting a 'lesser deal' because they don't want the tablet controller. It could backfire and end up isolating potential purchasers.

Also this whole forcing mandatory stuff onto gamers is precisely why I think the PS4 will outsell the Wii U and Xbox One substantially. People don't want this stuff forced onto them. Sony have understood this which is why they aren't forcing the PS Camera onto PS4 users. If users want that accessory they can purchase it at any time. There's the option and consumers really like being given choice, they don't want to be forced into buying something they don't necessarily want.

You know, I don't want my PS3 to play Bluray discs. I shouldn't be forced to pay for that. But I was forced to pay for it, wasn't I?

And if they did have different packages, and people felt left out because they bought the standard edition, then wouldn't that mean they wanted to be forced to buy it?

You make a series of valid points, but someone will know instantly whether or not they want to use the tablet controller. When I first saw the Wii U, the gamepad and the series of games that were listed at E3, I instantly knew that I wanted this console and a few weeks later I was at home setting up the Wii U.

If you go onto Gamespot or IGN, two websites I frequent often, there are lots of gamers who have expressed their disinterest or dislike for the gamepad. They see it as gimmicky and they see it as something which has really bumped up the retail price of the console. They just don't want the hardware that Nintendo is offering with the Wii U.

Also given the fact that Nintendo's marketing has been lacklustre, they haven't really given the consumer any incentive to take a blind bit of notice of the Wii U. As for the tablet controller being a gamechanger, I disagree entirely, I don't think it will replace the conventional controller and I don't think it's ever going to take off (at least not in its current format).



The Wii motion controllers have been so revolutionary that both the PS4 and Xbox One still use your standard controller with buttons? Come on! The Wii Motion controllers worked with the Wii, but they were never going to have a lasting impact, in the same way the tablet controller or the Kinect will not have a last effect on the industry. They are gimmicks which are a passing fad, nothing more, nothing less.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

Actually, I'm pretty sure the PS4 has motion in its controller, and the Kinnect is a motion controller. And will the PS4 support the PS Move controller (which reminds me, I want that for the PS3).

[SailtheSeas]

All valid points, but if we speak in real terms the Wii U is going to get substantially outsold by both its competitors.

 

They've offered underpowered hardware, a mandatory peripheral which clearly most of the gaming community doesn't want, their marketing has been poor, their lack of third party support has come home to roost, although the first party games are slowly starting to trickle out it's unclear whether or not these will really boost sales.

 

The proof is in the pudding here, I'm not fabricating why I think the Wii U is struggling to get consumers on board, I'm stating what I have read from numerous gamers on IGN and Gamespot.

 

I hope that Mario Kart 8, Super Smash Bros and Zelda U will see sales sky rocket, but I think this could be the first Nintendo console where Nintendo's first party titles may make very little impact in really driving up the install base and there's a real possibility that the Wii U may end up selling less units than the Gamecube.

[Socalmuscle]

The wii u isn't going to be a sales winner (though Zelda, metroid, etc. can only help things),That's simply stating the obvious. And I've brought up the reasons why previously.

However, this thread was about the next big thing from Nintendo. And many good points have been raised concerning that, both in terms of what Nintendo has done right (previous systems, wii u gamepad) and what they've done wrong ( no games making great use of gamepad, virtual boy...).

Bottom line is Nintendo is the innovator, takes the risks, and usually succeeds. From d pads, to analog sticks, to motion controls, to second screens, Nintendo has come up with ideas that have become industry standard. These are colossal contributions to gaming and the gaming landscape has been forever changed by them.

The point being made by this is that while it's likely Nintendo will once again innovate in its next system, they don't have to. They can simply execute better on what they've already invented. And focusing on the elements I brought up earlier in the thread will serve them very well when it's time to roll out the new hotness.