64 replies to this topic

[Finesthour]

If the Wii U will do everything they had said it can do,

I can pretty well say they better power it up.

[Waller]

If the Wii U will do everything they had said it can do,

I can pretty well say they better power it up.

And why is that?

[Banzai¥]

I wouldn't be surprised if the Wii U launches with an HD 7000-series card from AMD, considering the better performance and cheaper production cost that should result in using 28nm. Since the launch of the R700 series (Radeon 4000-series) have been known to run hot at even stock settings, I just hope these 'specially designed' chips from AMD aren't the result of lowered-clocks or designing off of their lower-end GPUs.

[AudieMurphy]

96MB seems big and expensive due to thinking sram its not sram its much much cheaper and smaller its about 25% the price of sram and its only 1 3rd the size

example high end cpus from intel have upto 32MB level 2/3 catch
96MB IBM EDRAM TAKES UP THE EXACT SAME SPACE AS 32MB SRAM AND IS ABOUT 75% CHEAPER
think about that...

just a thought GC/Wii 3MB 1t-sram EDRAM and 24MB non ed 1t-sram 3x8=24

96MB ibm edram x 8 = 768MB hhhhmmmmm

Edited by AudieMurphy, 11 December 2011 - 12:16 AM.

[MartinF]

I'm so confused with dRAM and RAM...

[Link707]

I'm so confused with dRAM and RAM...

RAM (Random Access Memory) is a generic name for any sort of read/write memory that can be, well, randomly accessed. All computer memory functions as arrays of stored bits, "0" and "1", kept as some kind of electrical state. Some sorts support random access, others (such as the flash memory used in MP3 players and digital cameras) has a serial nature to it.

A CPU normally runs through a short sequence of memory locations for instructions, then jumps to another routine, jumps around for data, etc. So CPUs depend on dynamic RAM for their primary memory, since there's little or no penalty for jumping all around in such memory.

There are many different kinds of RAM. DRAM is one such sort, Dynamic RAM. This refers to a sort of memory that stores data very efficiently, circuit-wise. A single transistor (an electronic switch) and a capacitor (charge storage device) store each "1" or "0". An alternate sort is called Static RAM, which usually has six transistors used to store each bit.

The advantage of the DRAM is that each bit can be very small, physically. The disadvantage is that the stored charge doesn't last really long, so it has to be "refreshed" perodically. All modern DRAM types have on-board electronics that makes the refresh process pretty simple and efficient, but it is one additional bit of complexity.

There are various sorts of DRAM around: plain (asynchronous) DRAM, SDRAM (synchronous, meaning all interactions are synchronized by a clock signal), DDR (double-data rate... data goes to/from the memory at twice the rate of the clock), etc. These differences are significant to hardware designers, but not usually a big worry for end-users... other than ensuring you buy the right kind of DRAM, if you plan to upgrade you system.

[MartinF]

RAM (Random Access Memory) is a generic name for any sort of read/write memory that can be, well, randomly accessed. All computer memory functions as arrays of stored bits, "0" and "1", kept as some kind of electrical state. Some sorts support random access, others (such as the flash memory used in MP3 players and digital cameras) has a serial nature to it.

A CPU normally runs through a short sequence of memory locations for instructions, then jumps to another routine, jumps around for data, etc. So CPUs depend on dynamic RAM for their primary memory, since there's little or no penalty for jumping all around in such memory.

There are many different kinds of RAM. DRAM is one such sort, Dynamic RAM. This refers to a sort of memory that stores data very efficiently, circuit-wise. A single transistor (an electronic switch) and a capacitor (charge storage device) store each "1" or "0". An alternate sort is called Static RAM, which usually has six transistors used to store each bit.

The advantage of the DRAM is that each bit can be very small, physically. The disadvantage is that the stored charge doesn't last really long, so it has to be "refreshed" perodically. All modern DRAM types have on-board electronics that makes the refresh process pretty simple and efficient, but it is one additional bit of complexity.

There are various sorts of DRAM around: plain (asynchronous) DRAM, SDRAM (synchronous, meaning all interactions are synchronized by a clock signal), DDR (double-data rate... data goes to/from the memory at twice the rate of the clock), etc. These differences are significant to hardware designers, but not usually a big worry for end-users... other than ensuring you buy the right kind of DRAM, if you plan to upgrade you system.

Thank you, I read some information and now I understand. But I have another question:

If the DRAM has 512MB and the SRAM has another 512MB, the CPU will have 1024MB?

[Link707]

Thank you, I read some information and now I understand. But I have another question:
If the DRAM has 512MB and the SRAM has another 512MB, the CPU will have 1024MB?

I would suppose that the CPU would have access to both... Though its great that it would incorporate two different types as dram has more memory while SRAM is faster

[Medu]

Thank you, I read some information and now I understand. But I have another question:

If the DRAM has 512MB and the SRAM has another 512MB, the CPU will have 1024MB?

Firstly you can forget about 512MB of SRAM- that won't happen. It might have as little as ~1-2MB of SRAM as it seems they will use eDRAM instead for the main cache- 24-32MB.

That makes answering your question fairly easy- it will of course have to access both.

Further info. There are so many conflicting reports it's very hard to know what to expect/believe. Traditional SRAM, generally referred to as cache, is embedded onto the CPU so of course the CPU will have access to that. It also has different levels, L1, L2 and recently L3. L1 is small and fast, L3 large but slower. And when I say large I am mean about ~2MB per core. This is where it gets muddy. IBM have said it will use a lot of eDRAM which is IBM's hybrid SRAM/DRAM. It's not as fast as SRAM but it's also much smaller. Is it on the chip with the CPU, or will it be shared off chip with the GPU... or maybe both will share it in a SoC......

Edited by Medu, 15 December 2011 - 02:26 PM.

[neverwinteru]

so honestly (speaking to the tech experts here) how powerful do you think this console will be.

Current high end pc

Or beyond??

[Medu]

so honestly (speaking to the tech experts here) how powerful do you think this console will be.

Current high end pc

Or beyond??

No where near a high end PC. More like entry level gaming PC but the end result should look fairly similar to what we see on high end PC's atm. GPU's have gotten fairly crazy in the last few years with massive power draw and heat output. The PS360 gen used high end PC parts but I don't see that happening this time around.

[10k]

People, people

eDRAM is a fancy way of saying "L3 cache" which the power7 processor can support a max of 4mb a core, which is 32mb maximum. The Wii u will not have more than 32mb of eDRAM. Its impossible.

The 1GB will be shared with the GPU ad CPU and the eDRAM will help with the wireless tablets and AntiAliasing.

1GB is twice that of the PS3 and that console can produce gorgeous games like uncharted 3. Just imagine what twice the ram could do?

[giggity3000]

These specs are not impressive for A next gen console but these are probably from the dev kits since the final version hasnt been established yet.

[HaoSenVastForest]

I wouldn't really believe this because we know pretty much nothing of its specs. This is because Nintendo wont leak anything. Do you all remember the 3DS how nothing was ever leaked? Yeah I think that it will be somethin like that. And even now we dont know all of the specs for the 3DS. So I really dont think that we can take anything quite seriously yet.

[Medu]

I wouldn't really believe this because we know pretty much nothing of its specs. This is because Nintendo wont leak anything. Do you all remember the 3DS how nothing was ever leaked? Yeah I think that it will be somethin like that. And even now we dont know all of the specs for the 3DS. So I really dont think that we can take anything quite seriously yet.

We might not know the final specs, dev's might not even know at this stage, but we have a fairly good idea of what they are aiming for. There is a lot of talk about the CPU/RAM but I don't view them as that important. Ram is so cheap right now that there really is no reason to be RAM limited. IBM also have a wide range of CPU cores to choose from to feed the GPU. So imo it all comes down to the GPU which from what we have heard will range from a 320SP->640SP based GPU. If it's a 640SP GPU then it will likely to be clocked a bit lower than it's desktop siblings. My guess is that it will be ~400SP VLIW5 based chip and that the chip in the dev kits was just an off the shelf replacement while the final chip is finished.

Edited by Medu, 21 December 2011 - 02:59 AM.

[MorbidGod]

A couple things. First, whoever thinks the Wii U won't have a quad core CPU consider this. We know the Wii I has a POWER7 processor; but we don't know the speed or anything else. A POWER7 CPU is only 4 to 8 cores. Making it dual core would cost Nintendo more to do because IBM would have to create a new lines for Wii U processors instead of using existing lines to make Wii U CPUs.

And you must remember that early Dev kits generally has stock parts until the chips are done. So it's possible that IBM has a PowerPC processor similar to the 360 and that the gpu is a stock GPU from the 47xx series.

So let's just wait and see until we count it out. We just don't know anything yet.

Edited by MorbidGod, 21 December 2011 - 08:46 AM.

[Medu]

We don't know if it uses power7. When ibm said it used Watson tech it could of meant a number of things- edram is the most likely. If it does use a power7 core it certainly won't use a power7 chip that ibm already make. There is a huge amount of tech on those chips that have no purpose in a console.

[MorbidGod]

I highly doubt the were referring to the edram since in the same press release it says it will use a lot of edram. However, I didn't say it is the same POWER7 that gets used today. It will COST more if they create special lines to,create the Wii U processor. It would be cheaper to have.the.current POWER7 lines create the Wii U processor then switch back to the POWER7. And they couldn't do that if they made the POWER7 a dual core processor.

http://www-03.ibm.co...lease/34683.wss

It says Power-based processor. So we know at least not a PowerPC based processor.

And to further add to my point, we know it will be 45NM which the POWER6 was not a 45NM processor. And I don't believe the PowerPC processors were either.

[Medu]

I highly doubt the were referring to the edram since in the same press release it says it will use a lot of edram. However, I didn't say it is the same POWER7 that gets used today. It will COST more if they create special lines to,create the Wii U processor. It would be cheaper to have.the.current POWER7 lines create the Wii U processor then switch back to the POWER7. And they couldn't do that if they made the POWER7 a dual core processor.

http://www-03.ibm.co...lease/34683.wss

It says Power-based processor. So we know at least not a PowerPC based processor.

And to further add to my point, we know it will be 45NM which the POWER6 was not a 45NM processor. And I don't believe the PowerPC processors were either.

What do you mean by lines- manufacturing lines? It's a custom chip so it will use new masks which Nintendo will have to pay for.

Also you can't discount PowerPC because they said POWER. It's a fairly confusing naming policy but PowerPC is a superset of POWER.

The process node doesn't tell us anything. The Xbox360 was originally a 90nm chip, but is now made on 45nm and is PowerPC based.

[MorbidGod]

What do you mean by lines- manufacturing lines? It's a custom chip so it will use new masks which Nintendo will have to pay for.

Also you can't discount PowerPC because they said POWER. It's a fairly confusing naming policy but PowerPC is a superset of POWER.

The process node doesn't tell us anything. The Xbox360 was originally a 90nm chip, but is now made on 45nm and is PowerPC based.

Yes, I mean manufacturing lines. having worked at a manufacture of auto parts (specifically the Speedometer and Odometers and the motherboard inside), I know that it is more expensive for a company to have dedicated lines for a product. However, you can easily trade out the parts and create a customer part. But if Nintendo paid IBM to create a special set of POWER7 and made it dual core, it would be more expensive then using what IBM all ready has.

And the Xbox 360 has a Xeon processor which is based off the PowerPC line of chips. And yes, the PowerPC is based off the POWER line of processors. The PowerPC G5 is based off the POWER4 processor. However, saying that the Xeon processor is a PowerPC chip is like saying the Wii U is going to have the Watson CPU in it. The Wii U is going to be BASED off the POWER7; which is what I am trying to say. I realize the POWER7 is designed for servers and the Wii U is not a server.

So just because the Xeon is currently 45nm doesn't mean PowerPC chips are (and I don't think they are being used right now).

But the fact remains, we don't know enough about the processor nor the GPU to count it out. To say that the Wii U will not be Next-Gen based off comments made from some developer who doesn't even have final build of dev kits -- probably just have stock IBM Power chips (I wouldn't be surprised if a Xeon isn't in the dev kits right now). Nonetheless, I do believe the Wii U is going to be capable of some wonderful graphics and anything a modern PC can do it will be able to do. And if the Xbox Loop and PS4 come out in 2012/2013, the PS4 and Xbox Loop will both be similar in power, with them both being slightly better.