314 replies to this topic

[routerbad]

Yeah, I am beginning to think that the Wii U hack is all smoke and air from his recent comments as of late. Especially when he said I could have provided Gaf with the details before Chipworks released the photo. So if he had the info all this time then why all the secrecy until today? He knew people wanted the information yet he decided to stay quite. Has anyone else tried to authenticate his claims about the CPU by chance?

Someone responded on twitter that GAF members were ignored when they did ask him.

If WiiU is using Cayman based SIMD cores it would be 8*64*2*.55=563GFLOPS. Everyone assumes that the SPUs in Espresso are based on R7XX VLIW5 cores rather than SIMD. Assuming Nintendo used SIMD cores, we are looking at somewhere between 563-704 GFLOPS. If they went with the older architecture at 40ALU's per SPU (which I'm reading was unorthodox for VLIW cores) we're looking at 352GFLOPS. Either way there is still nearly 50% of the die that can't currently be identified that could be additional asymmetric SIMD or SPU cores, or fixed function logic.

[ElderKnight77]

Someone responded on twitter that GAF members were ignored when they did ask him.

If WiiU is using Cayman based SIMD cores it would be 8*64*2*.55=563GFLOPS. Everyone assumes that the SPUs in Espresso are based on R7XX VLIW5 cores rather than SIMD. Assuming Nintendo used SIMD cores, we are looking at somewhere between 563-704 GFLOPS. If they went with the older architecture at 40ALU's per SPU (which I'm reading was unorthodox for VLIW cores) we're looking at 352GFLOPS. Either way there is still nearly 50% of the die that can't currently be identified that could be additional asymmetric SIMD or SPU cores, or fixed function logic.

Yeah...I followed his twitters too!!! All I can derive from them were he was blowing a lot of smoke and mirrors on his "supposed" hack. So far 3 months in, and nothing to show for the hack (probably still trying to break into it if you ask me) with only saying that he will release something when he has something creative to do about it. LOL...c'mon unicorn tongue!!! I wish another hacker calls him on it actually or an engineer who designed the new chip. lol

[Eskimo_sam]

nintendo has dropped the ball

[Mewbot]

Dun Dun Dunnnnnn!

B-b-but I um I said it was good news

[dragomix]

I dont know if gaf members are overlooking something, or they are stupid.

This is the shot of SIMD core from AMD Brazos mobile chip compared to Wii U GPU SPU.



Brazos hve 80 SPs per SIMD core! So Wii U should too. They have same amount of registers!

[Plutonas]

yes wii U is wider... that means faster... latest info says wii U ram is 148 gflops and orbis will be 162. Not a big difference there (wii U will be about -10% in the memory bandwidth from the top model Orbis). I bet on e6760 to. Is the only that qualifies...

First of all, if its rv700 it uses older spu's bigger consumption and higher voltage, except some low models, but they perform weak. Extremely weak and they use 94watts.... Even if we deduct 20-30watts for the pc parts and controllers, its still very high and if nintendo used it, they made it extra extraordinary weak (from 70watts - to 15-20watts)... so its a bad choice.

E6760 is the ideal...And very cheap... It needs only 35watts by defult and it gives 0.8 tflop performance. Also the rv700 sereies overheat much more and wii U have passive coolers.

And here is a question, 2 years ago when originally wii U announced, with the 2 demos, AMD oficially announced the stop of supporting and producting rv700 series cards for the PC. Why nintendo choose rv700, they took it free? lol

Edited by Orion, 06 February 2013 - 02:39 AM.

[dragomix]

Power consumption and production technology are strongly suggesting e6760 SPUs (SIMD's).

Where can we find more info about e6760 die, i would like to see e6760 SIMDs?

[3Dude]

I dont know if gaf members are overlooking something, or they are stupid.

Heh... Obvious quip resisted... Neogafs just a message board. No more no less. The color adjust is MUCH easier on my eyes. Im inclined to agree now. Those are some phatties.

Yeah...I followed his twitters too!!! All I can derive from them were he was blowing a lot of smoke and mirrors on his "supposed" hack. So far 3 months in, and nothing to show for the hack (probably still trying to break into it if you ask me) with only saying that he will release something when he has something creative to do about it. LOL...c'mon unicorn tongue!!! I wish another hacker calls him on it actually or an engineer who designed the new chip. lol

yeah, no.

http://marcansoft.com/uploads/25c3_console_hacking/

Knock off the crap. No one else is going to call him out as they all worked WITH him, when he literally used a pair of tweezers to extract starlett and kick off the wii's homebrew scene. He doesnt do this crap for message board morons, who will never, EVER use the information anyways. Which is why he ignores them.

Hes put together a presentation, and a lecture, just like he did for wii.This isnt some silly pony hash kiddy. You want to know whats going on, educate yourself, marcans not gong to do it for you, and he doesnt have time to screw around with idiots who have neither the capability, nor the intent to contribute.

Edited by 3Dude, 06 February 2013 - 05:35 AM.

[thunderspider]

Any idea of how many GFLOPS yet?

[Alex Wolfers]

Speaking of hacking I wonder if there will be homebrew.

[Plutonas]

between 352 and 800


Dont worry, its allready proved to be 1x-3x than xbox 360. But it may proved to be 4x, at the end. Thats fine by me, I am satisfied with that, lets see some 3rd party games, not only Japanese style. All we need is innovations also in the actual game, with voice overs... I wish to see voiceovers in nintendo games.. Nothing special, nobody tells them to hire madona make the voice over.. it could be anybody for 10 bucks.. haha

Edited by Orion, 06 February 2013 - 05:57 AM.

[dragomix]

Heh... Obvious quip resisted... Neogafs just a message board. No more no less. The color adjust is MUCH easier on my eyes. Im inclined to agree now. Those are some phatties.



yeah, no.

http://marcansoft.co...onsole_hacking/

Knock off the crap. No one else is going to call him out as they all worked WITH him, when he literally used a pair of tweezers to extract starlett and kick off the wii's homebrew scene. He doesnt do this crap for message board morons, who will never, EVER use the information anyways. Which is why he ignores them.

Hes put together a presentation, and a lecture, just like he did for wii.This isnt some silly pony hash kiddy. You want to know whats going on, educate yourself, marcans not gong to do it for you, and he doesnt have time to screw around with idiots who have neither the capability, nor the intent to contribute.

He may be right about all R6xx SPU-s on chip? 160 ALUs in total?

What do you think about e6760 SIMD-s theory?

[routerbad]

He may be right about all R6xx SPU-s on chip? 160 ALUs in total?

What do you think about e6760 SIMD-s theory?

He's said he doesn't know or care to know a whole lot about the specific graphics tech. The R600 registers would only make sense if they were needed for emulation, there could be some R600 based tech in there, but it isn't this GPU. R6xx was never produced at 40nm, never came close to the TDP necessary for Wii U. Hollywood, whether based on it or not, performed like an R6XX, we aren't seeing that level of performance here. It's much more likely that Espresso is based on an 80ALU evergreen SIMD core, considering what we've seen done on it.

[Zinix]

NeoGAF seems to be trashing the Wii U GPU.

Could someone explain to me without the tech jargon how exactly much better is the Wii U's GPU compare to the 360/PS3's?


Thanks.

[thunderspider]

between 352 and 800


Dont worry, its allready proved to be 1x-3x than xbox 360. But it may proved to be 4x, at the end. Thats fine by me, I am satisfied with that, lets see some 3rd party games, not only Japanese style. All we need is innovations also in the actual game, with voice overs... I wish to see voiceovers in nintendo games.. Nothing special, nobody tells them to hire madona make the voice over.. it could be anybody for 10 bucks.. haha

between 352 and 800


Dont worry, its allready proved to be 1x-3x than xbox 360. But it may proved to be 4x, at the end. Thats fine by me, I am satisfied with that, lets see some 3rd party games, not only Japanese style. All we need is innovations also in the actual game, with voice overs... I wish to see voiceovers in nintendo games.. Nothing special, nobody tells them to hire madona make the voice over.. it could be anybody for 10 bucks.. haha

So the next gen Microsoft and Sony can be around 3x to 5x the Wii U? much closer than this gen.

[dragomix]

NeoGAF seems to be trashing the Wii U GPU.

Could someone explain to me without the tech jargon how exactly much better is the Wii U's GPU compare to the 360/PS3's?


Thanks.

Nobody knows! It could be 1.5x Xbox 360, it could be 4.5x Xbox 360. We just don't know!

[Alex Wolfers]

NeoGAF seems to be trashing the Wii U GPU.

Could someone explain to me without the tech jargon how exactly much better is the Wii U's GPU compare to the 360/PS3's?


Thanks.

The Wii U GPU beats the competition in many ways. It does have some disadvantages though. But the graphics never really do make a system as much as the IPs do.

[routerbad]

Nobody knows! It could be 1.5x Xbox 360, it could be 4.5x Xbox 360. We just don't know!

This exactly!

Because we don't know which SIMD cores it's using it can be either 320 ALUs total or 640. The latter would bring it up to just over 700GFLOPS which is still less raw power but the blazing fast memory architecture and any fixed functions used to offload common tasks would make it much easier to reach that peak. After seeing the evergreen SIMD core that you posted I'm leaning toward 80 ALU/SIMD.

The Wii U GPU beats the competition in many ways. It does have some disadvantages though. But the graphics never really do make a system as much as the IPs do.

Doesn't stop anyone from wanting a $350 console to come with a GPU with some grunt.

[3Dude]

NeoGAF seems to be trashing the Wii U GPU.
Could someone explain to me without the tech jargon how exactly much better is the Wii U's GPU compare to the 360/PS3's?
Thanks.

Easiest thing is to compare the on die ram, and logic (the shapes made by the brown and black little nlack rectangles) between latte and xenos/rsx.

Wii u destroys both in on die ram, having both edram and 1tsram, on die (rsx and xenon have to put theirs on seperate dies, killing realworld performance) and wii u has butt tons more logic. Most of which is highly customized and completely unknown.

You can just see it by looking at the dies.

[Plutonas]

To make you understand better... XBOX360 gpu is 240 gflops.... The minimum for wii U is 352 and maximum near 740. (as for the ram bandwidth, wii U is 3-4x times faster)

Either ways, there is a catch... Technically only, wii U may be 1.5x better than 360. But all games of the current gen, codded for the cpu instead!! that is 46 gflops.. lol

Now if the companys (game developers) reverse that and make games for "GPU centric" machines, then wii U will be in another level... Not only because wii U is 1x or 4x times better, just because the industry use the right resources, this time. 360gpu may be 240gflops, but it was old architecture!!! slower. There is many factors in the tech. Even if they upgraded the 360 to gpgpu after, it was extremly limited.

How many games we know, that use GPU instead of cpu? Trine? Crysis 1-3? not many... battlefield 3...

Edited by Orion, 06 February 2013 - 10:19 AM.