gronik

All I'm see getting established is that Espresso and Jaguar are different architectures and are not completely comparable. Developers used to coding for Windows will be more familiar with the XBone and PS4 and can take better advantage of it's hardware, while Nintendo and mobile developers will be more familiar with the Wii U's setup. In the end it's up to the developers to make the most of the system and empirically prove it's abilities instead of people at us looking at the cold hard specs end extrapolating the end user game's performance and experience.



Well id stop reading from whatever garbage place youve been getting information from.

Espresso is much MUCH closer to jaguar than either of them are to cell or xenon.

ppe/xenon:
Clocked very high
very deep pipelines
little cache
in order execution.

espresso and jaguar:
Clocked low
shorter pipelines
larger caches
out of order execution.

Also, jaguar is a mobile microarchitecture processor so.... Yeah. Mobile devs will be way more at home with x86 and a jaguar since its a netbook/mobile processor line.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bobcat_(microarchitecture)

Welcome to reality. On the bright side you now know who not to give clicks (money) to anymore.

You're kind of an angry dude aren't you? Relax friend, it's just a game console

This is what I want and I really hope Nintendo starts doing it soon (as long as it doesn't interfere with the production of new titles). Who wouldn't want Metroid Prime HD Trilogy, Twilight Princess/Skyward Sword HD double pack, Mario Galaxy 1 and 2 HD double pack etc.? Or even just sold separately as eShop titles? The Wii had some of the best Nintendo games ever made and there are definitely some I would rebuy so I could play them in HD and on the gamepad.

 

Agreed.  It would be nice to see that done, especially since the PAL version Twilight Princess was very blurry (even more than NTSC version).  

I agree, if it interfered with the production of new titles then I would prefer they just concentrated solely on new titles. However I don't think it would take up too much time to release HD ports of Wii and Gamecube games as I am not talking about full HD remakes like Windwaker, more like Hitman HD collection, Prince of Persia HD Trilogy, and Rachet and Clank HD collection.

Yea, we seriously need Gamecube VC games like now lol

But that's it, I don't want Nintendo be busy remaking Super Mario Galaxy + 2 if we could get a newer game, say a New 3D mario game, or Zelda or anything BUT REMAKES. That's just my view. 

 

I agree, if it interfered with the production of new titles then I would prefer they just concentrated solely on new titles. However I don't think it would take up too much time to release HD ports of Wii and Gamecube games as I am not talking about full HD remakes like Windwaker, more like Hitman HD collection, Prince of Persia HD Trilogy, and Rachet and Clank HD collection.

I think they could emulate it on the GamePad with a system update, however like 3Dude said, the Wii isn't compatible with the Architecture unless its in Wii mode, however seeing that the GAMEPAD has upgradable firmware this could allow compatibility. The sensor bar could be used or the actual GamePad controls could be emulated as a classic controller (pro)

All I'm see getting established is that Espresso and Jaguar are different architectures and are not completely comparable. Developers used to coding for Windows will be more familiar with the XBone and PS4 and can take better advantage of it's hardware, while Nintendo and mobile developers will be more familiar with the Wii U's setup. In the end it's up to the developers to make the most of the system and empirically prove it's abilities instead of people at us looking at the cold hard specs end extrapolating the end user game's performance and experience.

We should problably just lock this thread now. With the limited amount of evidence it's just a faith fight now.

Fair comment on the bulldozer, bobcat confusion but jaguar is still at 3 dmips per mhz so 38,400 dmips there abouts. Not a 100 miles away from the area we were talking about though is it and admitedly I also sometimes write spu instead of spe.
 
Not sure what the point is about mips and dmips. Dmips is a test to calculate mips and as can be seen from the page previously linked to shows both mips and dmips being used. mips is millions of instructions per second and dmips is dhyrstone millions of instructions per second (the actual test that calculates mips).
 
It still doesn't change much compared to the absolute farcical ravings of people comparing the wii u cpu with the amd jaguar. It's just utter madness that clearly can not be demonstrated by a single wii u game which is still struggling to match current gen consoles most of the time.
 
I mean is anyone honestly stupid enough to think that a console that is struggling to compete with the current gen models can somehow transform into a super powerful console that can compete with the much more powerful ps4 and xbox one. It just staggers the mind that anyone can believe that.
 
How much evidence do people need so they can understand where the wii u sits in performance terms. Do we really have to go through perhaps a year of wii u releases before people finally accept the wii u performs to a similar level to 360 and PS3. Surely there is enough evidence currently available.
 
Console loyality is almost like a religion to some people and no matter how much evidence to contradict their opinion they will fight tooth and nail to convince themselves and others of their false beliefs.
 
The wii u is;
 
1) Using a dated and low cost fabrication process (45nm), inferior even to the ps3 gpu which is on 40nm. PS4 and xbone are on 28nm
 
2) Uses far less power than the latest versions of ps3 and 360 even allowing for the hard drive in ps3/360s and the faster optical drive of wii u.
 
3) uses cpu architecture from well into the last century with easily proven low performance in both integer and floating point calculations and is using low memory bandwidth memory chips
 
4) has been calculated to have gpu gflops performance of around 352 gflops ( a mere fraction of the xbone's 1200gflops and ps4's 1800gflops. This puts it directly in the area of 300-400 gflops performance which both ps3 and 360 occupy(cpu+gpu).
 
5) Zero evidence that the wii u can outperform 360 and PS3 except for some enhanced PC textures using in need for speed. The game itself is still running at 720p at 30fps and doesn't offer the 7.1 soundtrack of the ps3. Many wii u games have major cpu features ripped out like physics engines or cpu intensive graphic detail.
 
I'm just trying to get people to understand the performance level of the wii u. Fanboys can do a lot of damage, they can make people believe something is better than it is or make them believe what they want to believe. You need do no more than see how the wii u is performing today to assese its performance level. If your happy with that performance there isn't a problem but if you are buying because you believe later games will somehow compete with the best offerings of xbone or ps4 then you are going to be massively disappointed.

Jaguar gets about 2.7 (2.697) dmips per Mhz. Quit inflating.

The problem you had with dmips is you erroneously believed that a single integer operation was the same thing as a dmip. Which is where you got your laughable cell 'specs' from. Or did you forget that you just had your cell dmips WAY HIGHER than the current (still inflated) dmips you just provided for the next gen ps4/xbone (and you try and play it off by saying its not a big deal in your big picture lmfao).

Once again, drop the strawman, claiming the wii u is beyond ps360 is not the same thing as saying its on par with ps4/xbone. In fact NO ONE HERE has claimed it will be as powerful As ps4/xbone.

In fact, i have, over and over again, and over, and over, and again and again stated that the ps4/xbone will be around 3-4x more powerful than wii u.

Well guess what, 350 gflops x 4 = 1400 Gflops.

You dont get to talk anything fanboy related, or loyalty blindness. You have been the only one demonstrating this, and Youve been caught red handed for the last time.

You are done dude. Youve been proven dead wrong about everything over and over again,with hard proof.

Your blind fanboyism has been directly exposed. Nobody with any remote clue to what they are talking about are going to confusing freaking BULLDOZER with BOBCAT regaurding JAGUAR, Its not even a cat name, what did you think it was a freaking transformer? Its not ravage. That only comes from blind fanboy fantasies.

Again you are done. Completely done.

You cant bs about your technical knowledge, you screwed the pooch on that one.

You cant try and play fanboy cards, You are beyond exposed.

Your strawmans are lousy, and your attempts at twisting words, and putting words in other peoples mouths are... well, you arent good at it, and after seeing this, anyone who sees this, your arguments will carry even less weight so I guess its negative weight like a hydrogen filled balloon.

Its over. Just give up the whole technical trolling thing. Talk about games, hell talkabout ps360 games in the general section. I do, I just started a dark souls run.

This back and forth is really intertaining. The 11th of this month well shed a lot of light onto the conversation... Obviously someone has to be wrong right?

I really can't see the logic in discussing performance of consoles at the beginning of their life’s, I mean PS4 and Xbox One haven’t even been officially released yet!
  I think I remember when Sony originally unleashed details on the PS3 stating all kinds of numbers which didn't quite make it to release.

But; what did we get from the last generation of consoles?
Did we get a bunch of only rubbish games and wasted memories? Pfft only if you looked for them!
Ps3, Xbox 360 and Wii all had games which proved their respective worth.
  They all had games which stood out and showed that the consoles could perform above our expectations (or at least mine!)
There is no doubt in my mind that the Wii U, Ps4 and Xbox One will all deliver unique content which proves that they perform well at what they do.

Pc performance will always be potentially higher than consoles, but there is no guarantee that your machine will perform above your expectation, you know what you’re getting into and it will probably only ever preform to your expectations or eventually worse as your hardware becomes less main stream and developers begin to code on newer hardware.

I suggest you read past the first sentence or two if you intend to post a response. And you REALLY dont want to talk about the merits of this pile of steaming homogenous crap that was an excuse of a generation i had to suffer through for the past 7 years. But thats a different subject.

Anyways, you are right, power has nothing to do with game quality or fun. But thats not what this thread is about. Its about power.

and if you continued reading, youd find out punk mistakenly thought the cpu in ps4/xbone was an 8 core piledriver, amd's most powerful line of cpu's meant to compete with i7's.

When in reality, the cpu is a jaguar, amd's netbook cpu's that get spanked by low end i5's, and even some i3's.

You dont need the system to be released to understand the implications of that much of a difference in power.

While it would be neat, it more than likely won't happen as most Wii games have programmed motion control in them...which would need extra programming to work with buttons.
 
Of course, I could be wrong, but I just don't see it happening.

That parts pretty easy to get around, particularly since the game pad has motion plus (mems accelerometers and gyroscopes). All the wii u would have to do is send fake initialization reports to trick the game into thinking its a wiimote/nunchuck or classic controller etc. of course swinging the gamepad likely wouldnt be ideal, and there is no pointer, nor seperate nunchuck motion.... But it would work for many, many games, as the vast majority of games these past 7 years spectacularly failed to capitalze on full motion potential. Theres red steel 2, and skyward sword, and thats about it.

But you can still use the wiimotes with wii u, the gamead would just be a screen and sensor bar. It would still allow you to play without taking up the tv.

The real problem is that wii games are incompatable with wii u architecture. They can only run when the machine converts itself into wii mode, and wii mode cant use game pads. Nintendo would have to find a way to run wii games in wii u mode for this to be possible.

While it would be neat, it more than likely won't happen as most Wii games have programmed motion control in them...which would need extra programming to work with buttons.
 
Of course, I could be wrong, but I just don't see it happening.

That parts pretty easy to get around, particularly since the game pad has motion plus (mems accelerometers and gyroscopes). All the wii u would have to do is send fake initialization reports to trick the game into thinking its a wiimote/nunchuck or classic controller etc. of course swinging the gamepad likely wouldnt be ideal, and there is no pointer, nor seperate nunchuck motion.... But it would work for many, many games, as the vast majority of games these past 7 years spectacularly failed to capitalze on full motion potential. Theres red steel 2, and skyward sword, and thats about it.

But you can still use the wiimotes with wii u, the gamead would just be a screen and sensor bar. It would still allow you to play without taking up the tv.

The real problem is that wii games are incompatable with wii u architecture. They can only run when the machine converts itself into wii mode, and wii mode cant use game pads. Nintendo would have to find a way to run wii games in wii u mode for this to be possible.

Either option would be more than acceptable,I certainly wouldn't look a gift horse in the mouth! :L
 
 
Doesn't the Gamepad's front facing camera double as a sensor bar?

eh, yes and no. The camera has nothing to do with it, the ir lights are however, mounted on the same plastic strip the camera is mounted on.

Get both.

Considering you sold your wii u to pay for bills, you might be better off taking a little gaming break.
However, if theres a game you really want to play, go for it!

Exactly what I thought

 

I'd say get the Wii U then the PS4 if possible. It really depends on your taste, if you love platformers and nintendo games then by all means Wii U.

I think you should get Turbo Grafx 16 .