Also I have completed my anslysis on the latest rumor and sent off to tips on nintendo community , great news for people who arr wortief about specs, they will be standard PC equivalent, further software optimizations will prove its true power.

Why couldn't you compact your post before?
It looks like we agree.

If you are not interested in these deep discussions plesase inform prior. You don't seem to be responding to the content i provided.

I shall no longer correct semantics and explanations from your posts unless it benefits other thread visitors and posters.
I am correcting and offering expanded analysis on stuff i see are too broad and rough which makes them inaccurate, regardless who is quoted, they are targeted for everyone not just the quoted poster.
I do not direct all of my opinions toward the qouted user either, not personal in any way, the use of context in the word "you" is often generalized and not targeted toward anyone in this forum in particular, unless otherwise noted or obviously part of a directed sentence.

Other people have not requested any further help so I am done in this thread.

2Stewox
Why did you even mention Doom 4 ?

It might get on WiiU ... I am following ID Software very closely along with Rage (waiting for the horsing editor and mod tools)

Carmack has his personal wish to get something done on nintendo but he wasn't sure on the Wii since it was a business decision not to experiment there so he made an commercialized experiment on the iPhone, Rage Mobile, which wasn't running on IDTech5 on there at all it was just some of the tools and map stuff carried over, the point was, it was a 60FPS and the best looking app and game on the iPhone ... it was more of a tech demo that got made into a game with 3 levels, there was also an update recently, for anyone that wants to try it watch out there's the HD version you should try it has double pixels on both texture dimensions , it's 600 megabytes.

FPS makes sense on WiiU .... remember the Zapper

I'm active on the community there at bethesda forums and I sent a lot of valuable feedback to CMs as well as got info back so i know what's going on.

They're currently experimenting and evaluating, recently this year somewhere around past GDC i think they had a company meeting about it, i think they have the tech running on it already or in progress, certainly they have the latest dev-kits, this a standard practise, they are not announcing anything, but they're actively looking on what to do, maybe a Rage port or some of the older replayable games for starters or roll out with Doom4 which will take at least a year or 2 as Doom4 marketing campaign didn't even start , all options are open, they haven't ruled out anything they say.

Oh dang you're right, they're basically saying they haven't confirmed what platforms it will come for, not that the platforms themselves aren't announced yet... Well that's a relief.

Exactly

http://translate.goo...=559&prmd=imvns

http://www.nowgamer....beyond_pc.html?

Well that sucks mayor balls. I hope Stewox is right and the Wii U isn't underpowered or some carp.

But still, this makes me wonder... Will Sony or Microsoft break their promise and reveal a new console after all? If so, I'm afraid for the reception of the Wii U.

Do you even know what you've just linked to ...

Epic responded because it's probably not true, but ofcourse they didn't said it directly, the term "made no announcements" always leaves both options open, but you know, we live in reality, if one is ruled out by circumstances or any other factors such as this ... timely response ... you can only pick the other option from only two.

I haven't even scrached the surface of the software logic speculations, this is yet to come when we see the console. I hope smart programming will make WiiU quite practical and dynamical resource management is so much more important, 1080p is twice as big as standard x360 game so if you have twice as much RAM you're already hitting that with only higher resolution and better graphics, in reality of Wiiu that is half of what the machine will have give or take, so the other half of it has to be reserved for actually making the games better and bigger in scope, not just a few upped configs and textures.

2 GB is not that much of RAM when you think of 1080p @ 60Hz ,where does that leave all the juice for making bigger games or at least not cut down from what's on PCs in terms of design and creativity, such as complex big maps in Crysis. The fact why crysis 2 sucked is because it had to be compromised in map design

UE4 is what Spike mean by "Next-Generation", I think we can safely assume this now.
Game developers develop on PC's.

Doom 4 is not in relation of tha post, I have forgot to notify post split.

Spike is by no means professional, it's the mainstream crap from geoff keighley, the most annoying guy in the media industry. He paid a lot for the info he knows.

I don't see how the Wii U cannot technologically support the UE4 engine, when that it is created specifically for next-gen.

Are you reading my posts?

Doesn't matter what gen it is, it matter's what hardware is in there, and what features, architecture and components the hardware has.


I dislike this mainstream buzz words such as "next-gen" it's a stupid word, it doesn't mean anything, it doesn't describe anything in detail and it's only a relative perception made-up attribute.

I say we wait and see at e3, he referred back to GDC when Nintendo had every developer quiet about the system. It is possible that Epic only have PC support for the engine at this time, and add console support later on.

Tech people don't wait, they have a lot of things to speculate and discuss. Normally those who want to wait, usually don't have much idea what we're talking about here. I don't even wait while ... im not sitting here looking at the clock, kids do that.

I don't even care about the pricing or release date, that's not an issue at all why would I worry about it, I'm a fan, i will buy it regardless of the cost, 50€ up or down.


It's still RAM, that's the main issue, if 2GB rumors are true, then all we need to confirm is how much is OS reserved in final, i don't want it to be above 256, heck, for multitasking ... they would need 100 MB or possibly more to keep browser(content) , video player , video chat, spectator, and stuff like that usable while the game is paused/suspended ... but this is stupid to lock it , i mean, why, the game should support the SUSPEND mode in a standard by nintendo that the game must release the data out of the RAM, and then would require to load it back in the memory while you go back, so you see how simple solutions solve, the suspended game doesn't require all the textures, models, sound and all that data on top to be sitting in RAM, they would be able to cut that OS requirement in half or even possibly more, but I guess it's a high reserve for now because multitasking is what is allowed you would probably have 3 apps open at the same time or more, but they can also alleviate that with an simultaneous app running limit ... or another solution.

Suspending would flush some RAM, but not Pausing, so if you must go do something else while you're in a middle of the game I WOULD gladly sacrifice the release of RAM and then wait a few seconds to load when I get back, it's not like you would want to do other stuf every minute jumping back and forth ... it's just accepable an acceptable loos, it's a console not a PC so this sacrifice is well worth the benefits, they won't need to lock as much OS mem.

It just needs time and thinking, and I hopefully can see they can bring more logic and software side, hardware is a sitting duck without software, I don't like rushing I hope they don't release it as quickly.

Ahhh not again....

If this is true, it's not a technical reason, it's a buisness one, and even if that reason comes from the fact that porting UE4 on WiiU would not be practical from a feature support standpoint, it doesn't mean it's not possible and not doable, it would still bring advancementsl

That's the only reason, because you know why, it's not about the console's power, it's about the hardware features, and if the hardware doesn't have any features that would warrant UE4, and could well enough be done on UE3, then they won't make UE4 because it doesn't practically

STILL UE4 is technically achivable on WiiU as it is on X360 and PS3.
PLEASE GET THIS INTO YOUR HEADS. IF there is no UE4, it's EPICs reason, not the console's fault, not nintendo's fault, nintendo doesn't rely on 3rd party engines, but it's a bonus, ultimately it's EPICs sole decision, whether nintendo likes it or not.

Now hear this ... this is the source of confusion:
EPIC's engine is pretty unchategorizable, that's why all the confusing of the versioning, they're engine licensing company, like crytek, they've CONSTANTLY updated and rewritten parts of the UE4 engine, throughout many years, and it is pretty unsure how much UE4 is going to differ in pure performance advantage from rewritten code, as we can see UE 3.9 being mentioned, engine licensing requires LOT OF SUPPORT and that also comes with constant engine updates, not just bugs, but actual better code, and optimizations.

Just stop thinking the engine is your dad's grinding machine.

Code is logic and information, but you can't bend steel with a laptop and a screwdriver. Software is not something you buy in a supermarket, can people please get this everday pedestrian sterotype thinking out of their stupid heads, it makes me grumpy cause I'm sick of readin it. Software is not your mother's washing-machine, plug-n-play.

Perception perception perception , Wii i hate it.

So pretty much, EPICs decision will probably not be a stupid one, the end result is that we'll not be severely negatively impacted at all. It doesn't matter how the engine is called and what version it is. That's for UE's engines, and UE engines are going to be used by 3rd parties, which i don't even care about as a gamer, unless it's an exclusive and it's in the top of the quality scale, any of those multiplats i will just play on the PC as ID's software is not making another Rage mistake as we speak.

The second point in conclusion is, that pretty much all other developer who use their own engines will make optimizations and their tech better than UE3, such as ID Software, they don't rely on unreal and they don't care about licensing.

One last word:

Doom 4

http://www.neogaf.co...ad.php?t=475868

First of all ... Geoff Keighley !!!!!

Second ... he says the next-gen demo ... and the only next-gen showed is supposably WiiU

Third .. he says GDC demo ... therefore only WiiU and PC are the possible platforms

Forth... We don't talk generations on PC, so if keighley does he's got his balls screwd up, PC is PC whatever 3rdparty engine releases whenever.

There has to be something else the reason and the PC. So if UE4 really is not on WiiU because of the reason i explained above, they will show the PC demo.

Unless Microsoft was lying about not showing hardware this year.

(lol im writting posts in response to replies not even posted faster hah ... this post is actually 3 posts in one)

i don't think we have members of gaf here.

Btw you seem to be mildly obsessed with that site for some reason. why is that?

All the tech people are there ... but E3 is a week away, so i don't have anything to speculate about anymore, we'll see if we get more questions after E3 ... but as far as Im concerned, my job is done here, off to another project, what that will be, i have no idea, it might be buying diablo 3 (just finished starter) it might be going back to mapping starcraft 2 with the soon release of 1.5 patch with the massive overhaul and arcade (ability to sell custom maps to public)

Correct. And history of Nintendo suggests they will share RAM with the main memory pool and GPU working together. I would bank on 2GB of RAM total. NIntendo has shared RAM on all of their consoles (although I believe the 3DS has some VRAM allocated)

Not sure, the audio DSP will most probably use shared RAM but that's not the issue. There is big advantage with audio DPS, because you have all the resources for the audio there, developers don't have to worry about the balance and they can start making complete audio assets much quicker in the project as they know the capabilities and having in mind that the rest of the game graphically or processually won't impact the audio's budget. it's the specialization and you can have groups of teams worrying about different stuff, it's better because the programmers don't need to communicate as much as to make everyone sure it's on same page, for example a big engine change comes and they would have to report to every other group which messes up the productivity if you throw work away in the middle.

With the audio out of the way, it would be possible to suck out even more resources.

I expect WiiU software pretty clean and organized, it's what nintendo does well, with the system hardware and software layer stable it's going to blow developers away.

weaker than the high end pc graphic cards, but it has all the features to.

It's doesn't have GCN and a few other things most likely, so it's not all, on theo ther side, these are not major ones that contribute directly graphically at least.

I didn't read it because your post was too long.

My original post was part making fun of the OP's English, then part commenting that PC Exclusive games can achieve a higher level of visual fidelity than those on consoles which are two years behind PC's by the time they are released, however the closed spec of consoles allows for on-par fidelity with PC's up to two years after the console was released.
But when a company doesn't try hard on the PC, it makes no difference. Usually they don't try if they're making the game for both consoles and PC.


Also, I highlighted the fact there's "no money" in PC Exclusive games anymore, with the new Call of Duty casual crowd who find it easier or more pleasurable to play on their TV's.

Violet:
Light Green: it doesn't have to necessairly be a PC exclusive, any PC game has to have Win version of the engine, the matter is how good.
Blue: this is not absolute, totally depends on if the major studio takes proper effort on it, usually this doesn't happen early.
Dark Green: Their philosophy is to blame, they don't have idea how little it takes to make it much better, sometimes it just takes listening and patching.
Red:consoles are on a downfall; those people aren't gamers

lol i definitely noticed this when i first saw that footage shortly after E3, but i think it's quite obvious he wasn't being literal and was just referring to the sliders using the more common term "analogue sticks" i dont think he was hinting or letting anything slip

I bet they were going for analogs but just wanted to see people's reaction on the quickly made E3 demos , i think they were just testing how it goes .... because you know, the analog patent was there way before.

Made a vid to show it.

It is Blu-Ray.
I have it on very good authority.
Of course it won't play Blu-Ray movies, but a painted zebra is still a zebra.

What about this ... they changed their mind ?

And forgot to add this:

First nintendo gif for gaf I made some time ago ...


Someone who can, post it on neogaf plz

We were discussing graphics.

ah there we go ... graphics are a product of effort therefore we cannot accurately compare them by just picking random games ... graphics are a tradeoff - thats the big thing, it is all about tradeoffs ..... for a consumer is way more harder to objectively compare graphics by just looking at the completed products.
The developers know the true capabilities, its a lot more of details and complexity, even there it takes best of the best engineers in software.

consumers rarely have access to debug or dev modes let alone source code, but we can always dig up clues if we know.

We need to decipher what graphical element is a is a product of developer effort and what a simple tick of a switch from the hardware side.
The most obvious effort are textures and animations. The most obvious non-effort are post-process effects.

Tradeoffs ... most games aren't tech demos, they trade graphics for performance, they trade graphics for scope of the game world; interactivity and thus playability is not a part of a tech demo, because it takes away the resources. You cannot objectively compare different games with different engines with different developers with different dev teams with different programmers on different platforms, heck even the same game on different platforms because of the PC software Layer overheads i heavily talked about on this forums before, judging hardware by it.

No you cannot judge the hardware by comparing games.

People have a major mistake of perception when comparing screenshots of a game from different platforms, no, it does not represent the hardware, not at all. that particular comparrison is valid for that game only. And on top of that people compare different genres .... how big of a mistake van you make, you need to take the scope of the game world loaded into memory into account ... you need all the data all the statistics ... it goes deeper and im just not going to start with that cause short in time here ... these comparrisons we consumers are making are ridicolously inaccurate, if you must then you are comparing images of games eg screenshots in a basic way, never hardware.

With all of this in mind ... now see how big of a pointless idea it is to try to come with accurate predictions of how great would games would look like on an unreleased machine with barely any technical specs known( these rumors are verx basic specs only).

Here's the irony of it ... I'll tell you how WiiU games are going to look like:
They will look like how developers are going to make them (- TRADEOFFS), and certainly launch titles wont max out the system hardware, expect poor gfx ports such as darksiders 2 and aliens ... most obvious. Aliens a bit better but its a port nonetheless and gearbox is no optimization expert.
DOOM 4 anyone? ...

People that only care about graphics aren't gamers even if they consider them selfs to be. Probably people ejo wstch a lot of movies ... and Blizzard Cinematics Department keeps making sure those those people are kept at bay





This is not in full detail i could go, but you should get the picture.

It's a joke about a job posting they made.

Are those out yet?
You can find me a game similar enough to diablo 3 and starcraft 2 on a current generation console for comparison purposes?

does it matter if they're out yet ...
one we mentioned was out days ago ... sc2: HOTS comes this year probably ... other 2 come early 2012 ... as a matter of fact console generations have nothing to do with pc games so i am not sure about what is your intent with comparin these very different worlds ... i never compare nintendos games wit PC games thats why i think for my self have been able to peacefully and effectively coexist ...

precisely explain your mentality behind your thinking so i can understand and reply further ... we might uncover the source of our disagreements which i welcome

------------
upd:
was that a serious question?
I've ended up confused my self.

upd2:
also another status report
currently im typing from a mobile device ... you can see why i dislike these devices both from a technical and practical standpoint, its hard to type here fast so excuse my english grammar.

Hello

Started posting here since march, and quite quickly it became home for WiiU stuff, at-least pre E3 2012, but looks like it stay that way since I still didn't get activated on neogaf so all the tech talk has gone, whatever will there be left to speculate after E3 is a question, and whether nintendo releases spec sheet too; nonetheless been visiting all kinds of sites and forums to get a hold onto all of the speculation as I haven't been following it at all, i've only knew about it a little in occasional news hits that reached my attention but not nearly as deep as now, been buys with other things.

I have great understanding of how consoles work and the tech around it, and pretty much that's the only thing i truly care about, I have no questions of nintendo's software, I am confident they will provide and that from what I seen that is not the subject to worry, the most important thing to worry is the amount of RAM the WiiU will have, the part we don't have any concrete info at all.

Mainly i post on techpowerup.com ... the tech forum.

I am a nintendo fan strictly for nintendo-first parties an a few select third parties (soul-calibor, banjo kazooie ...etc), other than that i have no further interest in consoles, I own a custom built PC by mself and I have built quite many of them, all of the PCs in the house of my parents are custom part-by-part, i've also repaired PCs as a student job around the city which wasn't anything special just by refferal and tech forums.

So no, i've never owned anything portable from sony nor microsoft, and don't have intentions to, my opinion stands that pretty much all of the games there are PC derivatives, with some exceptions on the Sony side, such games i have no interest of, i play real PC games on real PCs, and I play real nintendo quality on real nintendo hardware. As for the Sony first-party exceptions, those are fine but I am genuinely not an racing and RPG fan, so i cannot comment on any of those genres I am not experienced there, so no negatives toward that. The only racing games I played which I really enjoyed was Flatout 2 on PC (and F-Zero of course), I am just not a fan of realistic racing games.

My opinion about microsoft is following, they're a tech company, a software company, yet they don't produce innovative hardware, and not games, the only reason they've created a console is to gain profit, their intention was purely business driven. That's how they stand in the corporate. Let's see the gaming side ... on the gaming side microsoft has zero legacy, they haven't discovered anything, they haven't invented anything, they've just put up a poorly deisgned system from the hardware side, that is cool looking and has a catchy name to appeal to a standard american joe. What they brought to the industry, nada, xbox is a pure and 100% parasite.

Sony ... is somewhere in the middle, i could go on in detail but i don't have as much bad things to say, just the reminder that if it wasn't sony and nintendo co-working on for a CD attachment for one of nintendo's consoles, playstation wouldn't come to exist, google it, it's all on wiki. Yeah for the first parties, i've updated the exceptions I mentioned above, I am sadly not a fan of those genres, so im not commenting on their quality. I do not comment what I do not understand, most important rule many people don't hold to.

UPDATE: (forgot)
And here a intro E3 gaf hype nintendo pic I made ... nothing special but I laughed my ass of while making it.

Pretty much ... and just won the Prince of Asturias Prize ... someone, post it on neogaf haha!

I got some spoilers for you.

The Wii U will have a CPU, RAM, GPU, DSP, HDMI port, USB ports, a blu-ray drive, a touch screen controller with a bunch of buttons and....wait for it....IT WILL PLAY GAMES!

spoiler for you
it's not bluray it's proprietary

Only when new engines come out.. eg unreal engine 4... But if wii U supports UE4, then... expect even more advanced engines than that, or an updated version of UE4.

The reason is, the chipset of wii U is modern and supports all this effects that up to date pc graphic cards support.... DX11.1 does not give anything new.. just a couple of improvements, so expect better graphics in PC, when dx12 comes out...

This is a pretty complex thing to address ... i will be as short as i can this time.

Everyone of you people think that UE4 is some kind of holy-engine of the ages that is going to struck the whole galaxy. Please stop thinking like that, those screenshots are without technical meaning, they prove some facts, but not enough, not at all to see what it will be on WiiU

The optimizations are not a simple thing as most people imagine, they need the most experience and knowledge, only a few companies are capable to fund and commercially release that, and to have the technical resources to successfuly experiment with that first, all of the other companies are just behind and come in later ...

How UE4 will work on WiiU is a question the screenshots do not specific the platform, and consoles rely on optimizations to get the most performance and capabilities out of them, it's all in tradeoffs, some developers take more performance than graphics. Some companies just don't have the technical skills ... a great example is gearbox software, they're not bad, but not the best, their animations are pretty bad and looking at the Alien's Colonial marines footage, graphically it could have been better, and how the stuff looks, it's standard gearbox, it doesn't make the game bad but still you can detect their effort put in those areas.

UE4 support for WiiU is not a question of working or not, it's a question of HOW IT IS WORKING, initially it's totally up to Epic's own effort put into the WiiU version of the engine, it's is their own standards of what is good enough and they'll ship version 1.0.

I just don't get people's way of thinking, software is not static, it's not just ON/OFF, it's complex, it's dynamic, it's dependant, it's efffffort, it can go into infinity how good it can be, there is no physical limit and you would call it "complete". Software companies make their own imaginary limits and then call it in double digit numbers, it's silly, that's just a commerical term, a brand, a marketing word, it doesn't mean anything, it's only a name, a reference. UE4 doesn't mean anything, we can comment it when we see it, it can be crap, it can be great, WiiU support might be great, might be crap too, who knows.

Epic games isn't going to make a perfect engine for one platform if they won't develop games for it, it's the devs of the game that take an engine and make it work as good as they can, most licensees will take UE4 and modify it to their needs.

UE4 can have DX11 support, can have tesselation, can have whatever, but HOW IT HAS IT... supporting something is not a matter of writting a line of code "init render_mode_DX11" done! ... no it's effort put into that, how good does it support is a matter how good the engine takes advantage of it, that takes time, time and effort and money and knowledge.

Every engine can support DX11 ... it can run in DX11 mode, and staying true to the statement, it's too simple, supporting it, doesn't mean it USES ALL of it's capabilities.

So I believe in 2-3 years, pc will have better graphics again... Because even if dx12 comes out next year, developers must support it... Even though.. There are not many games today, that support dx11 or dx11 graphics... Wii U will boost development in dx11 games... So wii U basically will impress us for the next 5-6 years

Nooo, you're wrong. PC hardware will be better instantly the WiiU comes out, PC hardware will be better instantly PS4 comes out, PC hardware will be better instantly X720 comes out.

Hardware is keeping up the moore's law, it's way ahead, game software is light-years behind. Software in games, is commerical, it's entertainment, with so many games, the people who are responsible for the drive of software and hardware are clearly overshadowed in all the mist.

Lives, security, safety don't rely on game software,bugs are only a consumer satisfaction issue.
Buggy hardware, can bring down the whole industry, can affect the enterprise, can affect the developers, it affects everyone, no matter what they do, that's why buggy hardware gets recalled if it's out of control, hardware parts get recycled or fixed, they don't recall games if they are buggy, software can be patched whatever it is wrong with it, but some don't care patching a lot, it's all

hardware companies cannot afford that, hardware is hardware, they cannot expect to exploit stupid people to buy it, if the hardware is buggy, nobody is going to be satisfied, the whole industry relys on them, they would get a lot of carp from the enterprise sector, hardware is useless unless it doesn't work perfectly, and they won't get anyone to buy it if it doesn't work, nothing will work well on buggy hardware, no market segment is tolerating that. Im speaking about processor's, graphic cards, the stuff that goes into PCs ... ofcourse that's why they make multiple segments, they have a whole team dedicated to enterprise just for that reason of keeping the dependants supported, remember the intel's faulty sata ports, the AMD's TLB bug ...

90% of the game developers aren't drivers of the industry, they're just parasites.

Then why'd you quote me?
PC and Consoles generate graphics in the same way.

There are no PC exclusives anymore.
And comparing an indie development to a AAAAAA Microsoft effort, would be silly.

What is AAAAAA microsoft effort ? They don't drive the industry, they're forced to do to serve the enterprise.

And what you're talking about with exclusives ? What's diablo 3 ? what's starcraft 2: hots ?, Company of Heroes 2 ?, ... Generals 2 ? All exclusives.

it might be able to compete with PC graphics for a while but the PC exclusives and future PC games will be able to beat the graphics of the Wii u.

It wont compete in the get go with anything on the PC that is truly in the height of it' standard. Consoles aren't the tech shaking forefront they used to be, and as nintendo isn't focusing on the tech it's pretty doubtful tere would be an early edge .. it just isnt possible.

However on the software side .. which is way more behind ... is an open question, graphics isnt just tech, it's effort put into making it, blizzard games are PC exclusives and they never had groundbreaking graphics nor engine tech yet they dominate the market and keep breaking their own records, tech companies like epic and crytek are not going crazy competing with engine licensing and tools war while not providing the best game quality ... there are some exceptions in industry ofcourse its those games that srt the standard ... crysis could have been a lot better if crytek supported it but no crytek made consolized crysis 2 a piece of carp version of the franchise ... it's not about crysis 2 being on consoles as the sole cause for being bad... its a precise combination and design that makes it bad, a design fault, you cannot make a good game that is as good on a multiplatform level by bringing it from one platform and compromising the design to make it technically work with the lowest denominator while following suit on another example of commercial success, crysis 2 ended up this diabolical mix cut up job of trying to make a design that was made for PCs with a mainstream mix of your standard console shooter that was it self already a terrible derivative, the modern warfail. not only was crysis 2 a fundamental flaw in design, it was also annoying because of the everyday cliches picked up by following suits.

Its not the console games that are bad its the wastern approach and design philosophy, its too commercial, poor design choices .... and most terrible console games are obviously the PC ports ... thats the whole point and cause... PC developers arent good on consoles ... it wasnt a design choice to develop for another platform it was a business one , psychologically and technially flawed, it was all a profit opportunity "ah look tons of sales ... we'll just modify what we have and bring it there ...done" ... the fact why this works is because stupid* people will buy it, simple as that, and you can fill that "stupid" term with all kinds of possibilities of inexperience and combinations, as well as genuine progressin, everyone was a beginner, the problem comes when people are stuck and dont make any progress in improving, large companies work hard to keeep a lot of people stuck, they know they are making profit off exploiting your ignorance. Its not their business to make you hardcore and skilled, they dont possibly see a sustainable business model there, strong communities make you better becsuse its a good cause to grow it in the better direction, gamers do and only a little of those companies still exist where actual gamers and developers who were there and worked their ass off to stay afloat in those early years, are the bosses today.

Obviously the examples are many but still to the ratio of everyone, slim, the two companies that I will explain in this example are Blizzard and Nintendo, they actually know what they're doing, they're the original talent, they run their business not somebody telling them what to do, they've struck the best balance in a game, it's not a 50/50, it's way more complex, and graphics are least important, gameplay is always firts and foremost.

The philosophy of these companies is important, they don't make the fundamental mistakes, and that one is, bringing SOFTWARE onto the HARDWARE that it was not originally designed for. Nintendo will not make games for apple, apple's devices are for casual stupid people who can't deal with any buttons let alone game controllers(eg.: pachter's wife).
Blizzard will not port existing franchises that were designed for PC hardware and it's original accessories for different platforms. Gameplay that makes sense and is feasible without compromises might be ported over, like diablo 3, but they're experimenting still.

Nintenod has a lot of experimenting, most companies don't take the research of software as seriously, they don't have idea pretty much, this is a pretty complex and most diluted industry on the planet, that's because possibilites are opened because of the internet, while good, internet has contributed negatively to the psychological and mental side, only a few companies are making this ship afloat, it's not PC gaming that is dying, it's the quality and talent, all this tablet and smartphone carp is very unhealth and destructive, it's not the proper way to recruit begginer, it SPOILS THEM and they're forever stupid and nooby and paranoid about touching a controller, doing this from an early age is very dangerous, kids could be born assholes, because of companies doing everything for them (all the automation carp), wouldn't know how to plug a cable on the back of the tv, pretty sick, it's all because of business philosophy and the mankind of getting stuff easier, simpler carp, i hate this, it's making the society DUMB. All the hardcore communitis are vocal because they defend them selfs, harmed because the mainstream is the majority and just because of the majority they have an edge and greater influence, it's like a virus, only a few are immune to it.

That's why i keep buying nintendo's products, for what they provide primairly, the software, they know correct hardware is needed for that, i do not care about 3rd parties unless it's an exclusive.

What you learned is, never try to bring somet software on some hardware that wasn't designed for. Stop doing ports, stop doing derivatives, stop doing online version, that is ALL BUSINESS EXPLOITATION of the BRAND.

A great and respected studio Relic has experimented with Company of Heroes Online, ofcourse it was closed down , learn why, they're embarrased about it they don't want to even talk about it again.

Company of Heroes 2 a PC exclusive is coming in 2013, true to the original, and they learned, KEEP doing what you do best and what you do know, stop trying to copy-modify-paste.

Multiplatform francises/brands that have not been multiplatform from the beginning are a fundamentally flawed, period.

Can the wii u create graphic that are similar to that of a pc?

Yes the hardware is modern ~2009 level technology, instead of ~1999-2001 that was in the Wii

The dark blue adds a more mature feel to it. Me gusta. (Now all they need is a black console available on launch day...)

agreed

the black ones should have a more hardcore look of the logo too , a different font maybe

U speak about ram and I speak about cache.. Totally different things, so dont confuse it.

XBOX360 does NOT have L3... only L1 and L2


The 10mb of edram is the gpu ram.. lol Many people get confused with that..


so lets make it clear...

XBOX got 512ram shared and 10mb edram especially for graphics... The cpu is L1 and L2 cache with 1mb.


Wii U is 3 or 4 cores... L1 3or4x32kb, L2 3or4x64kb, L3 3or4x 1 up to 4, OVERALL 4 up to 16mb of CPU CACHE.. THAT HAS Nothing to do with EDRAM. CPU makes bazillion of calculations and needs a special ram to process all this information to the system... Thats what cpu CACHE is needed.. more the better... or else it lags if its "1mb for instanse" lol

now wii U got extra edram 512mb apparently and an extra 1 gig of shared ram... Now its more clear for u? (its not clear yet, how much ram and gpu ram, wii U got, so this is just a speculation).


Dont get confused guys with EDRAM as CPU cache... cpu cache has NOTHING to do with system memory, it is a special ram ESPECIALLY for the cpu cores ... nothing else. Thats how we say "xbox and ps3 dont have GREAT AI potential" because they got 1 or 2 mb cache. So the cpu calculations in RTS or FPS games is limited, or past due for the new games and engines.. Especially for XBOX, that does not have dedicated sound chip, and the cpu takes this burden to calculate also the sound of the games.

so wii U is bob-omb.. lol


read this table of specs... look at the xbox cpu table and look down bellow the GPU section... http://hardware.team...ecifications/p1

So guys, get excited even more, Wii U is more than you think..... thats what I am screaming to you all this months, but it seems nobody understand it.. lol

Yes, CPU cache is inside the CPU core it self and is required for cpu to actually function. additional EDRAM is be embedded on die or ASIC, used for other stuff such as frame buffer

eDRAM is costlier ofcourse, its 3 times as dense than sdram and offers much more performance because of density and effectiveness of the short-distance interconnect.

edram is mostly used in consoles and ibm power 7 cpus , we are not sure yet if the wiiu implementation has edram on cpu die or asic, but there are theories and hunches the other tech guy always crunch about which i dont recall at this moment.

now we get to shared or main ram ... but we dont know if GPU has dedicated gddr so .... if it has thats the external gddr then, our main external ram still remains shared ... its also the audio DSP that uses that one.

If theres only one external shared ram its probably 2GB ...

U speak about ram and I speak about cache.. Totally different things, so dont confuse it.

XBOX360 does NOT have L3... only L1 and L2


The 10mb of edram is the gpu ram.. lol Many people get confused with that..


so lets make it clear...

XBOX got 512ram shared and 10mb edram especially for graphics... The cpu is L1 and L2 cache with 1mb.


Wii U is 3 or 4 cores... L1 3or4x32kb, L2 3or4x64kb, L3 3or4x 1 up to 4, OVERALL 4 up to 16mb of CPU CACHE.. THAT HAS Nothing to do with EDRAM. CPU makes bazillion of calculations and needs a special ram to process all this information to the system... Thats what cpu CACHE is needed.. more the better... or else it lags if its "1mb for instanse" lol

now wii U got extra edram 512mb apparently and an extra 1 gig of shared ram... Now its more clear for u? (its not clear yet, how much ram and gpu ram, wii U got, so this is just a speculation).


Dont get confused guys with EDRAM as CPU cache... cpu cache has NOTHING to do with system memory, it is a special ram ESPECIALLY for the cpu cores ... nothing else. Thats how we say "xbox and ps3 dont have GREAT AI potential" because they got 1 or 2 mb cache. So the cpu calculations in RTS or FPS games is limited, or past due for the new games and engines.. Especially for XBOX, that does not have dedicated sound chip, and the cpu takes this burden to calculate also the sound of the games.

so wii U is bob-omb.. lol


read this table of specs... look at the xbox cpu table and look down bellow the GPU section... http://hardware.team...ecifications/p1

So guys, get excited even more, Wii U is more than you think..... thats what I am screaming to you all this months, but it seems nobody understand it.. lol

Yes, CPU cache is inside the CPU core it self and is required for cpu to actually function. additional EDRAM is be embedded on die or ASIC, used for other stuff such as frame buffer

eDRAM is costlier ofcourse, its 3 times as dense than sdram and offers much more performance because of density and effectiveness of the short-distance interconnect.

edram is mostly used in consoles and ibm power 7 cpus , we are not sure yet if the wiiu implementation has edram on cpu die or asic, but there are theories and hunches the other tech guy always crunch about which i dont recall at this moment.

now we get to shared or main ram ... but we dont know if GPU has dedicated gddr so .... if it has thats the external gddr then, our main external ram still remains shared ... its also the audio DSP that uses that one.

If theres only one external shared ram its probably 2GB ...