I've got some research to do on the PPC line. I know AMD core modules don't exactly deliver on IPC, maybe that was fixed with Jaguar.

a lot more cache/core, it no doubt has additional and more modern instructions. I can't help but wonder if they are using a stronger FPU or have updated the SIMD logic at all.

Thats also easily accomplishable.

I assume they'll have sensitivity settings available to tailor the gameplay to your needs.

Sorry dude, didnt you know? your shenanigans finally ran out of time. Nintendo showed off monolithsofts project in alpha/beta, which is a large open world game which, even in beta/alpha makes open world games on ps360 look tiny, slow, and kinda crappy....

And thats just the tip of the iceberg, nintendo has buttloads of exclusive ground up projects they will be slowly unveiling from now to e3 via nintendo directs.

I was going to point this out as well, the game is no where near finished but makes other open world efforts feel closed in with flat backdrops. We haven't even scratched the surface of what this console can do obviously, and it seems Nintendo might not even know what the hell they put in there.

Thraktor and bgassassin are finally circling back around to the idea that the 6XXX series GPU's were referenced rather than the 4XXX series. they are thinking 6550HD because of some similarities on that GPU and Latte. we don't have die shots of e6760 but same chip series and probably uses the same SIMD architecture. I'm sticking with e6760 with two SIMD engines removed. e6760 has 6 SIMD engines (12 SIMD cores w/ 40ALU per core) and Latte looks to have 4 engines (8 cores with 40ALU per core) any other similar logic blocks on 6550 are probably also on e6760 but maybe in different numbers. Seems the fake leak might have been the right answer all along.

99% of ps360 games are cpu intensive... also wii U can boost its performance on cpu, with a bit different coding, but all games are ports... so wii U struggles with the 360 codding.. thats all.

If u add wii U codding on 360, 360 will not be able to perform also.

Exactly, thanks for the clarification, sometimes I ramble, lol

and no, no die shots yet. Four Storm doesn't want to be a pest with ChipWorks considering what they've given the community so far.

I understand a ltd amount of this stuff but three times the power of a 360 overall IF the devs no how to code the hardware correctly,but seeing as Nintendo are keeping silent about exact hardware spec its not easy for the devs and so third party games will struggle unless the devs know there stuff.

Anyone please feel free to correct me if my overview thoughts are way off lol.

It still sports the same Power core instruction set, so games will run on the CPU, but should be optimized for an architecture that uses out of order instruction processing and has different FPU and SIMD characteristics than the PowerXCell PPE and Xenon cores. Those cores were designed specifically for floating point operations and were for all intents and purposes a modified PPC 970.

0% its definately a 750 series. Now more than ever since we can see it. I do see how the 476fp would fit many of the requirements... Though i think it would be even smaller than espresso if it were.

Espresso needed to be compatable with broadway for bc, something that can very easily be done to any cx or later vanilla member of the 750 family... But would be considerably more difficult with the 476.

Could they not have added the 750cl instructions to core0? It was pointed out that if it were a broadway core shrink it would be much bigger than it is, especially considering the increased cache. I would think it would be easier to add compatibility to a modern core rather than go through the process of shrinking a defunct core and adding instructions to it.

Im sure they could have done something like that. But it really looks like they went with a 750 solution.

okay, its fun to speculate

why don't Nintendo just come out with the specs.

I have no idea.  Then again, because their design strategy doesn't focus on raw power, it wouldn't be in their best interest to do that.

thats why I gave u the last link... they seperate them to AMD and ATI (5xxx and backwrds)

Interesting. I've said multiple times here that i think that its the e6760. It fits the process, the power profile, the performance profile, everything. Because no one has a die shot of a e6760 we can't know for sure, but it's pretty clear none of the r700 series cards really fit the bill.

it proves to be an E6760 that nobody accepts easily, they dont want to!!.. lol look at this

http://www.nintendo....ch-specs/ it says : AMD Radeon™-based High Definition GPU

and look at this.

http://en.wikipedia....i/Radeon_R700 and this http://en.wikipedia....en_(GPU_family) Both are rv700 and r800 (4xxx gpu and 5xxx gpus) They are NOT AMD branded, it is ATI branded (amd bought ATI and the AMD gpus start from 6xxx series!!) http://en.wikipedia....ds_(GPU_family)

I pointed that to gaf, because they all speak for rv7.... They trolled me in IGN forums, they dont want to listen about e6760, they want to believe that wii U does not have the dx11 hardware features!!! lol funny but true.

that alone proves that wii U is using AMD radeon based gpu (As nintendo states) technology, that means 6xxx series and up. So it may not be 320 spus, but 480 instead!

Nobody can say that wii U uses rv700 chip, because it conflicts with the branding... it should be ATI radeon rv7 instead. Its not even r800 (5xxx gpu) because it is also ATI branding.

Even if AMD bought ATI and they are one company... AMD keeps the ATI branding for 4xxx and 5xxx gpus http://www.amd.com/u...on-hd-5000.aspx

but its not accepted by the reviewers.. hmmmm

It is true they didn't start branding the GPU's with AMD until the 6000Series, but I would assume any GPU produced from that time forward would carry AMD branding regardless of the base family from which its derived. I believe it is an e6760 as well, though if it were they have removed one of the SIMD engines. the e6760 has 6 SIMD engines, Latte has 4 (2 SIMD cores = 1 SIMD engine @ 80ALU/engine). Thats just the programmable shader piece. You also have a crapton of logic all over that GPU that could be fixed shaders, asymmetric shaders, who knows!

Also, it would still be 320 ALU's even if they went with e6760 SIMD engines, because there are two missing.

Heh, if they had gone with the 476's they could had said it was blue gene technology instead of watson.

I think the Power 7 core makes even less sense.

R7XX would make sence as a starting bases only. but how do the basic fuctions (ignooring all custom) compare to R7XX. devs seemed to only have access to basics till last devkit which likly didnt feature all custom features as they were likly still being fintuned in development =/. i know ME3 didnt take advantige of the GPU. didnt use much of the ERAM, so reloads parts through the main bandwidth, when the EDRAM is likly enough to keep grahics almost completly loaded+ the extra (Sram was it?) RAM on die aswell.

no CPU die shots yet?

We've already seen it do things that don't make sense for a straight up R7XX, except maybe the 4900 series. Given that I believe they have to be using more modern unified shaders than that line, though it may have been their original starting point for the type of performance they wanted devs to expect (I would assume they were playing it safe, better to have a launch title not utilize all the hardware potential rather than not run properly) to get from the system, at least early on. As far as ME3 it was a very CPU intensive game on both x360 and PS3 and they had very little time with the final hardware and SDK to optimize for the hardware. The fact that late gen ports run as well as they do with little to no optimization or even switch from CPU to GPU reliance really says something about what this little puppy can do.

well i expect gc/xbox like gen 3 rd parties similar or better along with consul preformance. if ps4 flops as a inefficient steroids engine again then a even better match. think the GPU is ruffly even with RV770 main parts. but can be pushed alot more do to on die ram and custom parts to unload alot of work, hopefully leaving the main parts the basic build and custom on making it look nice. id design wii BC parts cabable of runnning with wiiu and not exclusivly wii. expect most games below par to 720/ps4 but some high end games at their upper limmit

I really think when it comes to actual visuals for games actually built for each of the next gen consoles, we'd be hard pressed to find any sizeable difference between the three. Sure Orbis and Durango are FLOPS monsters, but I doubt seriously either will be able to reach anywhere near peak, Orbis will have a harder time with it than Durango I think. I really think that all three systems give devs plenty of room to express themselves artistically, and all will have the ability to display some impressive stuff. Hell we've already seen some impressive stuff done on Wii U. Maybe it starts to show it's weaknesses at the end of the gen, but not most of it, and certainly not early on.

He may be right about all R6xx SPU-s on chip? 160 ALUs in total?

What do you think about e6760 SIMD-s theory?

He's said he doesn't know or care to know a whole lot about the specific graphics tech. The R600 registers would only make sense if they were needed for emulation, there could be some R600 based tech in there, but it isn't this GPU. R6xx was never produced at 40nm, never came close to the TDP necessary for Wii U. Hollywood, whether based on it or not, performed like an R6XX, we aren't seeing that level of performance here. It's much more likely that Espresso is based on an 80ALU evergreen SIMD core, considering what we've seen done on it.

Nobody knows! It could be 1.5x Xbox 360, it could be 4.5x Xbox 360. We just don't know!

This exactly!

Because we don't know which SIMD cores it's using it can be either 320 ALUs total or 640. The latter would bring it up to just over 700GFLOPS which is still less raw power but the blazing fast memory architecture and any fixed functions used to offload common tasks would make it much easier to reach that peak. After seeing the evergreen SIMD core that you posted I'm leaning toward 80 ALU/SIMD.

The Wii U GPU beats the competition in many ways. It does have some disadvantages though. But the graphics never really do make a system as much as the IPs do.

Doesn't stop anyone from wanting a $350 console to come with a GPU with some grunt.

So it isnt based on VLIW at all then? Do we know for sure AMD provided them or is that speculation? That would change the conversation drastically I think because everyone is assuming that the 8 clearly visible SPU's are based on VLIW5.

R700 is still ATI branded! So i dont think its R700 at all! Its custom, but SPUs can be older with 20 ALUs on SPU, so we get a nuber of 160 spus @ 550MHz is 176 gflops.

Right, if it was based on R700 it would carry ATi branding as well. Going on the assumption that this chip is completely custom then really anything is possible. The consensus at the moment is 40 ALUs/SPU for 320 SPUs @ 352GFLOPS.

e6760 has 480 sp's @600MHz. You think they just used the SPU's from that chip and customized everything else?

It's not a R600 series GPU.

Like I said, it may have started as one during the first stages of development but now its a completely different thing, tailor-made for Nintendo's needs.

I wouldn't think so either, and though marcan doesn't think so Hollywood was widely rumored to be based on R600 given the die size, layout, and capability. If indeed Hollywood was based on R600 then wouldn't it make sense to include the driver modules to allow for emulation?

He seems to think Hollywood is quite literally GX with a higher clock speed, which doesn't seem plausible to me given all of the other known quantities.

Another thing to note is that the 360 was never able to reach its theoretical peak performance, not even close. The Wii U is likely to come close thanks to a crap ton of blazing fast memory on die. So just as important as peak performance is the ability to reach it, and just as important as memory bandwitdth is latency.

They are trying anything to try and trash the part. Sad, because talking about it's power potential is much more exciting.

I'll have to give them a try. As long as they support CX.

epic came out and said wiiU can run unreal4, but not to the max they wanted it, without optimization atleast. but then again 720/PS4 have confirmed themselfs to run gimped versions of UE4 too.

Awesome, thanks! I hadn't heard that yet. UE4 won't see full implementation on any console I'm sure. It's a PC first engine, and I'm glad they built it that way.

dsp also right next to the high speed i/o's and starbuck. Freaking eurogamer silly pony 'tech analyst'.

What was his name again? jeff butter? whatever his name is, he sure made a fool of himself.

Agreed.

So BGAssassin still thinks we're looking at around 1TF or more taking "dedicated solicon" into account. He wouldn't label it fixed function, though that's what I would suppose that amounts to. Very interesting post.

What I don't get is if it is in fact R600 based, it would have ATi branding on the chip housing like Hollywood did. That is the basis for the presumption that this is a completely custom setup. It wouldn't justify the cost in the slightest, given we know that Ninty is losing money on console sales at the moment. It also wouldn't make any of the recent previews from ND look possible at all.