Great software almost always makes up for hardware. A great example is the 3DS, which despite having lower specs (Dual-Core 300MHz-1GHz ARM11 CPU, PICA200 GPU, 128MB FCRAM) than the PS Vita (>1GHz ARM Cortex-9 Quad-core CPU, SGX543MP4 GPU, and 512MB RAM) has more compelling software. It is also a great example of how system specs don't necessary translate in superior software.(since the 3DS still pumps visuals nearly as well as the Vita IMHO)

First off, GPGPU is a piece of hardware. It can handle some aspects to pull of some of the CPU payload.
Second, the presence of a GPGPU wasnt announced before Havok said it will be implemented. AND there are other physics engines that can be used, which the GPGPU can prob pull off some of the CPU's payload. The power split among the coding for the game can be decided by the developers for that stuff. And third, i am aware that DirectX is a Microsft-strict program. Wii U will use OpenGL, which can match DirectX performance. If the e6760 at its base can pull off DirectX 11, than OpenGl should be able to perform to that level as well, as long as Nintendo hadnt had the GPU downscaled.

You just got served





750 is an earlier Powerpc core system from the 90's. Obviously IBM has upgraded it to Watson like capabilities, meaning our slow speed (1.24 GHz) is irrelevant when it comes to the instuctions of the cylces of the system. AMAZING!!!!!!!

In combonation with the GPGPU, well, the system can handle more power, and show off great graphics.

It will be next gen because of the capabilities of the combo

I agree...I see the Wii U's CPU more than just a boosted Broadway CPU. In fact, the way it's designed and stated it seems like it's a new CPU (since Freescale and IBM doesn't even produce the chip anyore) that's a hybrid of both Broadway and POWER7. The fact that the system incorporates GPGPU along with MCM architecture makes the system very efficient and flexible. The only hitch is how powerful is the GPU and which rumored GPU is the system using? The Wii U had been rumored to be anywhere from an R7xxx (highly unlikely due to power draw constraints) to the more feasible e6760 (for power consumption, HDMI 1.4, etc) which gives the GPU a huge variance depending on which GPU is used.

In conclusion the Wii U is most definitely around 2.5x-3x more powerful than an X360, the rendering of two screens alone give proof to that credence.

Yeah never got the whole its broadway x3 thing. if you look at Nintendo own admission its a new CPU they just had the right people their to make it BC. Wii U will be fine its just gonna need developers who are willing to push it.

If they just look at it even by CPU speed then the Espresso is technically 5.4x the peak power of the broadway chip. Along with it's ability to do OOE, ability to off load to the GPU via GPGPU, while having more cache; the Espresso is more than capable of keeping up with the Xenon CPU.

Nintendo fans really don't care about getting into a pissing contest with Sony fans. Not that Nintendo can't win mind you...but it's irrelevant since software rules. However, this time around we have more muscle with the Wii U compared to the older systems( i.e. 360, PS3). Just like the 3DS vs Vita...the power diffrence won't be such a big gulf compared to the PSP vs DS!!!

I think some guys tested wii U with and without the screen controller and the fps was the same thing!!!... And if we take as a fact, that the fps on wii U is unlocked, we can see that in batman for example and assasins creed 3... If the cpu and gpu is used to render the gamepad screen, then we should see and small fps increasment.. but we wont see anything pointing to that...

that means wii U hides some secrets. There is 3 small chips inside the gpgpu, 1 is the cpu, 1 is the gpu and 1 is very small and uknown... maybe its a mobile gpu only for the controller streaming??? who knows...

Exactly, the Wii U is definitely more powerful than what it currently shows. Sony fans are trying to instill FUD (fear, uncertainty and doubt) on the system hoping they could do to it what the PS2 did to the DC. Even if the power diffrence ends up being DC vs PS2...I would love to see that battle knowing full well that Nintendo has better arsenal of games/software compared to what Sega had during those days.

It's because of all the slander and libel that the system is currently facing. If I were Nintendo, I would:

1. Come clean on the specs for the system especially the GPU (though Sony and MS fanboys will still look for something to whine about)
2. Set up a great legal team to halt/punish slanders coming from biased analyst and irresponsible developers.

Both gamecube and wii were out of order. However, they werent multicore. In fact, no 750 has ever been multicore, it was impossible to gain practical coherency between the cores until recent improvements in ibm's edram technology.

If it was possible to make a tricore 750 back in 2005, there would be no such thing as icore.

Seriously though, Someone should probably look up the difference between a ppc 750cle and a ppc 750Gx or Fx. Just sayin.

I did, the max clock freq for the 750GX is 1GHz @~9W power draw and single core design only. It was the most powerful version of PPC750 before the Espresso was released with an L2 cache of 1MB. The information available really leads to a design hybrid of the 750GX and the POWER7...with the Espresso falling in between the two (closer to 750GX per core) in terms of performance and having 3 cores (I really wish Nintendo made it 4) instead of one. The end result could very well be a CPU that by itself performs a smidge less (worst case scenario) to equaling the performance of the Xenon CPU depending on optimization(best case). Though with the GPGPU configuration and a GPU at the very least 2 generations(R700 or e6760) ahead of the the Xenos (R500) and 3x the embedded RAM and 2-4x more system RAM makes the Wii U definitely more capable than either the PS3 or X360.

Wii wasn't even in the same ball park as ps360. It just didn't have modern enough architecture. To run the engine the way they were developed(talking graphics here). You see games like modern warfare reflux on Wii it was the exact same game as the one on ps360 it was just ugly as Wii GPU didn't have the modern graphic techniques to make the game look all shiny and pretty. Wii U will be in same ball park as ps4 and 720 I'm willing to bet that the Wii U GPU was customized to have dx11 "FEATURES" which is what ps4 and 720 will have also just more powerful chips. I'm not an expert but majority have put Wii U as 3-4 MAX beyond ps360 and ps4720 3-4 MAX beyond Wii U. Anyone thinking this is remotely close to a Wii vs ps360 situation doesn't know a thing about tech. Also don't get down over the supposedly weak Wii U CPU... Not true even a little bit. Read through the BS fanboys try and throw out their to make Wii U look bad.ANY developer that claims Wii U isn't powerful enough to get a next gen port I call BS and it shows me how Incompetent that dev is and I wouldn't want his/her game anyway. Wii U won't get big 3rd party support because Nintendo is looked at as a family friendly company and most publisher don't think their is anaudience and their game wouldn't sell well on the platform... End of story.

It annoys me that people still insist that the most likely GPU for the Wii U is the R7xx...when all fact points to at least an Evergreen Card(e6760 is most likely). The R7xx series not only draws a lot more power than what is shown on the Wii U, but lacks the other key features found on Wii U like: HDMI 1.4, UVD3, steroscopic 3D (found even on the tablet), D11 or OpenGL 4.2, and EyeInfinity for multi-monitor technology not found on the R7xx series.

Wii wasn't even in the same ball park as ps360. It just didn't have modern enough architecture. To run the engine the way they were developed(talking graphics here). You see games like modern warfare reflux on Wii it was the exact same game as the one on ps360 it was just ugly as Wii GPU didn't have the modern graphic techniques to make the game look all shiny and pretty. Wii U will be in same ball park as ps4 and 720 I'm willing to bet that the Wii U GPU was customized to have dx11 "FEATURES" which is what ps4 and 720 will have also just more powerful chips. I'm not an expert but majority have put Wii U as 3-4 MAX beyond ps360 and ps4720 3-4 MAX beyond Wii U. Anyone thinking this is remotely close to a Wii vs ps360 situation doesn't know a thing about tech. Also don't get down over the supposedly weak Wii U CPU... Not true even a little bit. Read through the BS fanboys try and throw out their to make Wii U look bad.ANY developer that claims Wii U isn't powerful enough to get a next gen port I call BS and it shows me how Incompetent that dev is and I wouldn't want his/her game anyway. Wii U won't get big 3rd party support because Nintendo is looked at as a family friendly company and most publisher don't think their is anaudience and their game wouldn't sell well on the platform... End of story.

It annoys me that people still insist that the most likely GPU for the Wii U is the R7xx...when all fact points to at least an Evergreen Card(e6760 is most likely). The R7xx series not only draws a lot more power than what is shown on the Wii U, but lacks the other key features found on Wii U like: HDMI 1.4, UVD3, steroscopic 3D (found even on the tablet), D11 or OpenGL 4.2, and EyeInfinity for multi-monitor technology not found on the R7xx series.

Wii wasn't even in the same ball park as ps360. It just didn't have modern enough architecture. To run the engine the way they were developed(talking graphics here). You see games like modern warfare reflux on Wii it was the exact same game as the one on ps360 it was just ugly as Wii GPU didn't have the modern graphic techniques to make the game look all shiny and pretty. Wii U will be in same ball park as ps4 and 720 I'm willing to bet that the Wii U GPU was customized to have dx11 "FEATURES" which is what ps4 and 720 will have also just more powerful chips. I'm not an expert but majority have put Wii U as 3-4 MAX beyond ps360 and ps4720 3-4 MAX beyond Wii U. Anyone thinking this is remotely close to a Wii vs ps360 situation doesn't know a thing about tech. Also don't get down over the supposedly weak Wii U CPU... Not true even a little bit. Read through the BS fanboys try and throw out their to make Wii U look bad.ANY developer that claims Wii U isn't powerful enough to get a next gen port I call BS and it shows me how Incompetent that dev is and I wouldn't want his/her game anyway. Wii U won't get big 3rd party support because Nintendo is looked at as a family friendly company and most publisher don't think their is anaudience and their game wouldn't sell well on the platform... End of story.

It annoys me that people still insist that the most likely GPU for the Wii U is the R7xx...when all fact points to at least an Evergreen Card(e6760 is most likely). The R7xx series not only draws a lot more power than what is shown on the Wii U, but lacks the other key features found on Wii U like: HDMI 1.4, UVD3, steroscopic 3D (found even on the tablet), D11 or OpenGL 4.2, and EyeInfinity for multi-monitor technology not found on the R7xx series.

Wii wasn't even in the same ball park as ps360. It just didn't have modern enough architecture. To run the engine the way they were developed(talking graphics here). You see games like modern warfare reflux on Wii it was the exact same game as the one on ps360 it was just ugly as Wii GPU didn't have the modern graphic techniques to make the game look all shiny and pretty. Wii U will be in same ball park as ps4 and 720 I'm willing to bet that the Wii U GPU was customized to have dx11 "FEATURES" which is what ps4 and 720 will have also just more powerful chips. I'm not an expert but majority have put Wii U as 3-4 MAX beyond ps360 and ps4720 3-4 MAX beyond Wii U. Anyone thinking this is remotely close to a Wii vs ps360 situation doesn't know a thing about tech. Also don't get down over the supposedly weak Wii U CPU... Not true even a little bit. Read through the BS fanboys try and throw out their to make Wii U look bad.ANY developer that claims Wii U isn't powerful enough to get a next gen port I call BS and it shows me how Incompetent that dev is and I wouldn't want his/her game anyway. Wii U won't get big 3rd party support because Nintendo is looked at as a family friendly company and most publisher don't think their is anaudience and their game wouldn't sell well on the platform... End of story.

It annoys me that people still insist that the most likely GPU for the Wii U is the R7xx...when all fact points to at least an Evergreen Card(e6760 is most likely). The R7xx series not only draws a lot more power than what is shown on the Wii U, but lacks the other key features found on Wii U like: HDMI 1.4, UVD3, steroscopic 3D (found even on the tablet), D11 or OpenGL 4.2, and EyeInfinity for multi-monitor technology not found on the R7xx series.

Honestly that R7xx carp (I don't think it's a bad card) needs to stop!!!

Evergreen cards are the 5000 series e6760 Is turks. (which, admittedly, is just a barely tweaked e5760 evergreen).

People arent saying its a 7xx chip, just that its a custom made derivitive (just like evergreen and turks are) of the chip line. With as much time spent in development for nintendo as it has, no one really expects it to resemble a baseline r7xx, or the 4xxx card series. That just takes too long to say.



You might as well be asking the difference in goku vs freiza levels.

There is SOOOOO much going on between ps2 and xbox that you cant even begin to use them as a baseline for anything else.

Thanks, but I already know the diff between the turks and evergreen gpu's;and though I'm not a very tech savyy person I could see it more in line with the turks for the features it shows. I wasn't refering to anyone here on the forums regarding the r7xxx series. I was talking about fanboys in GAF and VGC etc spouting all this bull$hit about the Wii U only having an R7xxx series GPU (still better than 360's R5xxx but that's not the point) when all facts points to a more advanced and newer GPU like the turks or even evergreen. I'm glad I had met you, since you understand that the 750 found on the Wii U is not the typical ppc750 but a highly modified one. People can't seem to understand that!!! I am pretty sure that Nintendo planned to use the PWR7 CPU; but saw that they could get near the results they wanted by implementing GPGPU on a highly modified 750 design with PWR7 featured architecture. I really wish that Nintendo made it a quad-core though and boosted the RAM to at least 3GB but that ship has sailed. Regardless games like NanoAssult and Trine2 looks great on the Wii U and really showcases what the system can do this early of a stage.

512 MB to run W8 is bull$hit started by M$ fanboys who would like to bloat the systems specs. (I have a x360 mind you and love the system) The very, bare minimum to run W8 is about a Gig or RAM. Want proof? Just look at the systems requirements here :http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows-8/system-requirements and that doesn't take into account other things MS will add to customize the user experience for gaming. At min it will be a 1GB just like the Wii U. The PS4 on the otherhand may getaway with half that but highly doubt it.

I think it was the orbis rumour that put out the 512 MB for the os. But I cant remember for sure.

The Orbis will need more than 512MB since Android's latest version 4.1 won't run with systems having 512 MB of RAM or less. http://htcsource.com...to-android-4-1/

Nintendo should just alleviate all this crap and release the system's specs this E3. Honestly, they should realize that the silence is killing them!

That's a terrible idea.
Nintendo aren't Sony.

1080p in a 4 or 5 inch screen is as pointless as dressing a duck up in a dress to lay eggs.
The DPI is already higher than a 40 inch TV at 480p

agreed not to mention it will eat more memory and CPU (like we need anymore reason to bog it down) power. It's fine for what it does.

the wii U gamepad screen is good enough hell it looks better than my tv in most cases.

I know...sometimes I think the colors look better than my Sharp 46" LED!!!

My other screens are all fine too. I have an ipod for over 2 years now, no scratches, 3DS no scratches and so on. But I let other people play with my Wii U gamepad, too and I have the suspicion that the scratches started then.

Light scratches usually don't show up when the screen is on. If they do then it is a deeper problem that could haunt you in the future. I know people (especially PS360 fans...esp PS3) that are pretty rough on the system and a screen protector should have been your first priority of protection. Heck, even Nintendo knew this looking at all the demo Wii U and 3DS's currently having SP.

Agreed, I don't think Nintendo ever will release specs for Wii U. They would rather amaze us with graphics in future games that will really show what Wii U can do.

Fair enough, but I am not asking for a full blow-out of the systems specs; just enough to shut up all the mis-information that's out there slamming the Wii U. I do agree that games like NanoAssult, Trine 2, and maybe the Cave shows how a proper port should be on the Wii U and highlights the advancement the system has over the legacy consoles like PS360.

I'm all for multiplats, but there is something about exclusive games that just makes a system special. Xboxs have Halo and Gears, Playstation has there LBPs and GoWs, Nintendo has their Marios and Zeldas. Recently there are industry shake ups that allowed Nintendo to exapand their exclusive IP base for their systems. These expansions include funding of Bayonetta 2, a deal with Capcom regarding MH, the buyout by Nintendo to own FatalFrame, Nintendo purchasing MonnolithSoft and the dissolving of Silicon Knights to obscurity leading to Nintendo as the sole owner of Eternal Darkness. Now more than ever he field is right for Nintendo to expand their audience by acquiring certain IPs or even their publishing rights. THQ is on the brink of self-immolation and has a huge number of IPs that would fit and expand Nintendo's audience. (Darksiders, deBlob, Deadly Creatures are some IPs that seem to have done ok on Nintendo systems). Bonk brink of extinction is a cancelled(but already complete) game by Hudson and Konami that Nintendo could grab the publishing rights to; just like Bayonetta. The game looks solid and since it's already completed should have little effort in the development department in contrast to Bayonette. Now is there any other games or IPs out there that you personally think realisticly that Nintendo would/could pick up? Seeing how THQ was willing to sell off all their franchise for $60mil and the Bonk situation, these might be good candidates for Nintendo to seize and expand their exclusive lineup.

This Nintendo Direct was better than their E3 2012; just sums up my reaction. The games are really showcasing what the system can really do (I love how they made their hybrid CPU play nice with AMD's e6760 to get those visuals). I'm really excited over the future of the console!

http://kotaku.com/59...ve-specs-so-far

LOL...sure and the system will cost $600 again. C'mon 2.2GB seperate video memory (256MB embeded according to someone hyping this up...lol) and 8GB GDDR5 system RAM is not gonna come from Sony. The company right now is in financial turmoil; and doubt they could afford to out do MS in the specs dept. I will believe it when I see it is my motto for Sony and MS's new systems. Rumors for them are just a joke.

Hello cannonshane,

I am glad, and I will try to be more careful next time. This is a great community though and I hope it continues to grow.



Hello ElderKnight77,

I might have to agree with you, although Nintendo's E3 2012 was really good too. To me, I just felt like it was one thing after another - responding to fans' requests in-part, improving services, partially revealing the new HD Zelda (that was surprising to me!), and more. If we all somehow could let Nintendo know how great this Nintendo Direct was.

Take care both of you.

Sincerely, NintendoFan

thanks maybe we could write it on MiiVerse somehow to let them know. I know that's what I will be doing to ask Nintendo to buy the Darksider's IP!!!

The GPU is completely custom.

It may have started as a R6xx series GPU during the first stages of development, but that alone means almost nothing in terms of power and efficiency.

Also, he said nothing about it being " ~175 gflops" in theoretical power peak.

This whole discussion is pretty much useless.

Yeah, I am beginning to think that the Wii U hack is all smoke and air from his recent comments as of late. Especially when he said I could have provided Gaf with the details before Chipworks released the photo. So if he had the info all this time then why all the secrecy until today? He knew people wanted the information yet he decided to stay quite. Has anyone else tried to authenticate his claims about the CPU by chance?

Someone responded on twitter that GAF members were ignored when they did ask him.

If WiiU is using Cayman based SIMD cores it would be 8*64*2*.55=563GFLOPS. Everyone assumes that the SPUs in Espresso are based on R7XX VLIW5 cores rather than SIMD. Assuming Nintendo used SIMD cores, we are looking at somewhere between 563-704 GFLOPS. If they went with the older architecture at 40ALU's per SPU (which I'm reading was unorthodox for VLIW cores) we're looking at 352GFLOPS. Either way there is still nearly 50% of the die that can't currently be identified that could be additional asymmetric SIMD or SPU cores, or fixed function logic.

Yeah...I followed his twitters too!!! All I can derive from them were he was blowing a lot of smoke and mirrors on his "supposed" hack. So far 3 months in, and nothing to show for the hack (probably still trying to break into it if you ask me) with only saying that he will release something when he has something creative to do about it. LOL...c'mon unicorn tongue!!! I wish another hacker calls him on it actually or an engineer who designed the new chip. lol

This is one of the things Nintendo could definitely do to increase sales without a price-cut. Re-bundling the systems by having the 'basic' white with a pre-loaded NintendoLand @ $299.99 and the 'Deluxe' would be re-bundled with a pro-controller along with NintendoLand and Trine 2/Nano Assault or even NSMBU pre-loaded on the system for $349.99 would really boost sales. Until the inevitable price cut following the release of PS4/720 this winter holiday. This would help alleviate the financial burden of a price-cut and would be more acceptable alternative that early adopters may tolerate.

One of the things Nintendo could definitely do to increase sales without a price-cut is bundling Re-bundling the systems by having the 'basic' white with a pre-loaded NintendoLand @ $299.99; while the 'Deluxe' would be re-bundled with a pro-controller along with NintendoLand and Trine 2/Nano Assault or even NSMBU pre-loaded on the system for $349.99 would really boost sales. Until the inevitable price cut following the release of PS4/720 this winter holiday.($249.99 for Basic no game and $299.99 for Deluxe as is now) This would help alleviate the financial burden of a price-cut and would be a more acceptable alternative that early adopters may tolerate.

your fighting for no prics cut?
i work hard for my money and i save every dollar i can and ur trying to find ways for them not to price cut??? you sir are an idiot!!

First of all..please don't call me an idiot. You know nothing about me to even imply that. You could call my post dumb...even idiotic; but personal remarks are unwarranted. Second, the post says alternative ways because Iwata stated that the Wii U was not going to get a price cut. I merely presented an 'ALTERNATIVE' to a price cut that would/could appease both early adopters and incite new buyers to the console (no need to get personal; we all work hard for our money).

It is true they didn't start branding the GPU's with AMD until the 6000Series, but I would assume any GPU produced from that time forward would carry AMD branding regardless of the base family from which its derived. I believe it is an e6760 as well, though if it were they have removed one of the SIMD engines. the e6760 has 6 SIMD engines, Latte has 4 (2 SIMD cores = 1 SIMD engine @ 80ALU/engine). Thats just the programmable shader piece. You also have a crapton of logic all over that GPU that could be fixed shaders, asymmetric shaders, who knows!

Also, it would still be 320 ALU's even if they went with e6760 SIMD engines, because there are two missing.

It's almost blatantly obvious that it isn't based on the RV7xx series and that Latte uses the e6760 as it's baseline foundation. This might help a bit:http://www.nintengen.com/2012/07/speculation-wii-us-gpu-based-on-amd.html
AFAIK after seeing the die shots; Latte cannot be based on the RV7xxx series.

Graphics wise the diffrence between Wii U and PS4 (with what we have seen so far) is not the gulf that was between Wii and PS360. The closest comparison I could probably say is the diffrence between 3DS and PSV. PSV definitely the more superior hardware with 10x the RAM and double the cores; yet the 3DS doesn't look to shabby with similar textures and effects (despite not having superior/equal AA and polygon push). It will definitely come out to creativity and how much investment 3rd parties are willing to invest in games. Clearly the current gen could still hold it's own compared to launch titles for PS4(maybe 720); and the diffrence won't be apparent until 2nd or 3rd gen of games from those systems. The Wii U, being a step up to those systems (like 3DS to PSP) would probably hold it's own for a while and would still have beautiful games using art direction instead of polys. My 2 cents.