I'm buying solely for its unique flair. I can't really put a true comparison to it without bringing up about fifty different games. Furthermore, there is a lot more depth than I first expected what with the ability to use multiple Morphs at once with each having their own strengths and weaknesses.

While those are worthy ideas there is still one problem. .. it costs $349 and the PS4 is $399 and looks a much better value. You now get 4 "free to play" games on day one also.

The 3ds had no competition when it was floundering and they still had to cut the price to move the system.

Now Nintendo has two great systems coming out for the holiday to compete with.

They will be lucky to have 20% of the market in the next few years. It is that bleak.

Except that the PS4 has a few hidden costs such as:

 

No BC, thus eliminating the possibility of trading in your PS3 if you want to play your PS3 games. Heck, even your PSN games don't transfer

 

You have to buy all new controllers, each costing $60

 

Online multiplayer is an extra $60

 

The Wii U has ONE that's easy to remedy: storage. And considering that hard drives CONSTANTLY go down in price it's not a huge issue, especially if you don't get a lot of digital games. It amazes me that people keep forgetting this.

Aiddon:

First of BC means nothing to me. One I never go back to old games. 2 nothing says I have to chuck my old system.
Adorable, still doesn't change the fact that it's an issue for a LOT of people.

Online multi does not cost anything.

Yes it does. You wanna play multiplayer online you're gonna have to use PS+

My Wii U did not come with any Wii+ controllers. .. yours did? So I would have to buy those and nunchucks.

No, but I still had everything left over from my Wii.

That nullifies hidden costs.
The above examples say otherwise

 

Not exactly as big of a competitor as it first appeared, is it? Face it, the PS4 is going to have a typical launch year and the Wii U is NOT going to be in trouble over it. To suggest otherwise is trying to judge things in a vacuum.

PlayStation 4 is sold out.
I judge it by the fact there are 1.5 million people on the waiting list for gamestop alone. This number does not include orders already placed.

 

So did the Wii U. And the 3DS. Selling out pre-orders means nothing, it's par for the course and anyone who has studied gaming history can tell you that much. This idea that it will surpass the Wii U is wishful thinking. We still don't really know how the majority of people will really react towards the XB1 or the PS4 as the PS3 and 360 are good enough for most. It's like how PCs having been selling a lot due to current computers being more than enough for people.

You can say preorders mean nothing. .. but when the Wii U sells 400, 000 I'm the first week and the PS4 has 1 million pre-order already and 1.5 million waiting it is pretty obvious it is going to crush any console launch to date.

 

Because early adopters are nothing new. Furthermore, releases and sales have just been becoming more and more frontloaded, so again, just because it has 1 million preorders doesn't really mean much when you're hit with that context. It's why a movie breaking box office records doesn't really mean much anymore or why a game hitting huge numbers first week doesn't mean much. Sure, the launch week might be big, but then you have to think of the subsequent weeks and, let's face it, followup sales being far lower is very common now.

This is more than early adopters coming to the PS4. There are well over 100 million potential customers who will be replacing PS3 and Xbox 360's with PS4's over the next few years.

 

No, that's precisely what early adopters are; like I said, things have just become more and more front-loaded in gaming, especially as of late. Furthermore, there's no sign of more people wanting  to replace their systems just because the PS4 is out .If anyone has an uphill battle it's Sony and MS because there really isn't any difference between the PS4, XB1 and their predecessors besides slightly pretty graphical effects. The 360 was slow as hell to sell until 2007. The PS3 took THREE YEARS to hit its stride. And this is only going to become the norm from now on. Gaming is a luxury and people can deal with not upgrading their systems, especially when the cheapest of the HD twins comes in at $400 without a game, online subscription, or more than one controller. I don't ANY of the new systems doing well their first year, and that's going to be a wakeup call for all parties involved.

Was this Direct that good?

 

I mean, we still have like no release dates. Not one for Mario Kart 8, and not even a time frame for SSB4.

 

They give you plenty of things to talk about and yet you move the goal posts AGAIN, this time saying "well, we don't release dates though!" Again, like trying to conquer Russia. It's not their fault you're freezing your toes off

Waiting to see how much people overhype this only to throw a hissy fit when their unrealistic expectations don't come to pass. Happens EVERY freaking time

and this is why whining about Nintendo is akin to trying conquer Russia. Yeah, you'll get a few licks in but then winter hits and you end up looking like a fool.

Everyone. Simply not all at once or all at launch. My school house rock parody covered this.

But you are asking the wrong question, this is the message the publishers want to brainwash into you.

What you should be asking is, is there any possible way enough unique value can be provided for each console to make that 900 dollar (even though it wont be anywhere near that since we wont buy all 3 at launch) investment for the next decade worth it for each individual system?

There used to be. There can be again.

That and they could stop making systems COST $400+ in the first place. Seriously, they need to start keeping costs down by making things more efficient, especially with diminishing returns hitting and budgets becoming so inflated.

I hate this. Why on earth do people want console gaming to be completely homogenous. What is the point in having multiple consoles if the games are all the same?

Who the hell cares about buying more games if they are all middling multiplat crap instead of awesome generation defining exclusives? This is the crap that turned this gen to the crappiest in gaming history, and people are so used to being shoveled feces they just lewve their mouths gaping waiting for more terds to be shoveled in.

 

Because 3rd parties have been trying to convince consumers of a one-console future for years. Furthermore, companies have always tried to perpetuate that there is only ONE line of evolution for consoles and that is the "just add more power to it!", blissfully unaware of Diminishing Returns, which are now happening as seen with the PS4 and the XB1. The entire reason Nintendo went in a different direction than everyone is because they realized first that just doing the same thing as everyone else wasn't going to work forever.

 

And companies HATED that. They hated being proven wrong by somebody they wrote off as a has-been, only for Nintendo to come back from the dead and basically humiliate them. They showed that motion controls weren't just a gimmick and that the huge leaps in tech philosophy 3rd parties had been perpetuating for years wasn't the end-all, be-all. It's akin to a fundamentalist finding out that the Bible had huge errors that needed to be corrected. But still 3rd parties have been just making thesame crap for years, terrified of actually putting forth effort or scaling back budgets a bit to focus on what's important.

when 3rd parties are this lazy, half-assed, and cowardly, I can't say it should surprise people why most games bought on Nintendo systems are made by Nintendo.

Neither of those are exclusives. And oblivion? on consoles? Ugh. elder scrolls does not belong on consoles.

Though I give credit to gow as at least a year timed exclusive before heading to pc. But lets face facts. "let's not pretend that we're wallowing in the future of entertainment. What we have here is an extremely competent action game that's as polished and refined as it could be, and is therefore very enjoyable. . But if Epic had applied the same widescreen scope and ambition to the gameplay as it did to the engine we'd be much more excited than we are."

Now compare it to what the ps2 had by then.

Dark cloud, dark cloud 2(chronicle), Silent hill 2, ico, jak and daxter, red faction, time splitters, grand theft auto 3 (the first gta that was actually, well, whats known as gta, mind blowing revolutionary change in gameplay enabled by the new engine)

This list can go on for a looooonnngggg time, it literally hasnt even gotten started.

The multiplat homeginization has severely devalued the console gaming experience. Different consoles should ALL have mostly different libraries, not just nintendo.

 

Though let's face it, devs have pretty much shot themselves in the feet by letting budgets spiral out of control, thus why making exclusives terrifies them and thus why they've become so risk averse. And again, the reason I can't sympathize with these guys is because they could rectify these mistakes in a second by scaling budgets back, stop making stuff that's ONLY M-Rated, cater to other niches that have been starved, make more stuff for handhelds, and generally just stop making such bad business decisions. And YET, they keep making these mistakes and blaming everyone else, whether it be console makers or consumers.

its not that they are cowardly its that the WiiU has an install base of like 3.5 million and for games that have a niche audience, unless Nintendo pays them, what sense does it make to bring a game to the WiiU if there is not going to be any profit. Also, it's on Nintendo for making a significantly weaker console making it hard for the 3rd parties to make games for the console.

 

And whose fault is it for sitting on their ass and not releasing product which could have helped raise the install base? Oh, right, 3rd parties. If you want sales, if you want something to grow, YOU HAVE TO MAKE AN EFFORT. It is NEVER delivered to you on a silver platter.

 

And another thing, when the HELL did companies start caring so much about power? The PS1 was dead last in the the power department, same thing with the PS2 (the original XBox for instance was several times more powerful than the PS2), and the 360 wasn't on the same level as the PS3 and yet 3rd parties happily gave that preferential treatment for the initial 7th gen years. And I don't even need to explain the royal asskickings that Nintendo's handheld division gave each of its competitors. It used to be that developers just worked with something regardless of processing power, so where the HELL did this sudden hunger for power come from?

 

Nothing about the actions of 3rd parties makes any sense to me. The only conclusion I can come to for their sudden stupidity and change in priorities is that they've all been huffing paint for the past few years.

That's absolute and utter rubbish. There were plenty of great games through out the life span of the 360 and PS3 including the early years and launch window. The Wii U's first doesn't compare in the least with those two consoles. You obviously have no clue what was released on the PS3 and Xbox 360.

 

Power of wikipedia, I DO know what was released on the PS3 and the 360 for their first years AAAAND...not exactly anything to write home about. The 360 had, MAYBE, three truly big titles in its first year: Oblivion, Dead Rising, and Gears of War. Everything else was....basic. The PS3 was the same. In its first year it had Virtua Fighter 5 and Uncharted. Aside from that, its library was pretty much a copy-paste of the 360's and it didn't really have any truly big reasons to get it until MGS IV which STILL didn't help it fully recover.

The last system I can remember that did that at launch was xbox and ps2 with ico and halo. Those days are gone. Long gone.

Ive been through 8 generation changes, of course im irritated that there is nothing to play on my new wii u. But I knew this would be the case, its something you have to accept when you buy around launch. Though its probably multiplied that ive gone 7 years owning 3 mostly worthless consoles, 2 of which have 99% the same exact library, and I have played less games for combined than 2 or 3 years of either/or ps2/xbox. My 360/ps3 collection is a JOKE compared to my xbox/ps2 collection. I am tired of the redundant crap. It was starting to get old at the end of that generation, and is now 7 years past the point of being sick of it.
Plus I spent 7 years waiting for the last guardian, and its all but vapor ware now. That made me grumpy.

But ANYWAYS, I dont expect an end of generation size library within the first couple months, this aint my first time on this map.

 

That's the thing that baffles me with people bashing Nintendo over and over again: are they forgetting just how many first years for a system were completely dry? It's been the norm for YEARS and yet people stamp their feet and act like Nintendo wasn't allowed to NOT be an exception to that. It's amazing. For the love of god, the PS2 had NOTHING it's first year except its ability as a DVD player. Same thing with the PS3, which had SEVERAL years of being considered a joke among gamers. Why are people ignoring history like this? This is ridiculous

 

 

Halo 3 came out TWO YEARS after the 360 launched. Uncharted 2 wasn't until THREE years after the PS3 and The Last of Us was a few months ago. You can't compare that to the Wii U's first year, because in the PS3 and 360's first years, they had jack. Freaking. Squat.

You're silly.
Do we really need someone to explain what a vote is to you?

 

Oh, I know what a vote is....but it doesn't matter. Just about everything you THINK you know about investing, you pretty much have to think the exact opposite way when it comes to Japan. As I explained earlier, investors have as little power as possible in Japanese corporate culture, regardless of whether or not the investor is Japanese or foreign. Japanese businesses are structured in such a way that investors can't really DO anything significant. At best, all they can do is shake their fists impotently. They can't bully the board of directors, they can't influence the CEO, they can't really do anything. Japanese businesses prioritize STAKEHOLDERS over shareholders. They're concerned about their employees and their customers instead of their shareholders. They prioritize their company's longevity over making their already wealthy investors wealthier.

So...yeah, basically with the way Japanese business works it's next to impossible for Iwata to get fired. The only way he'll leave is through willing resignation. And remember, he would be the one to pick his successor which would probably be someone with a similar mindset and philosophy. Best to just get over it and accept the reality of the situation.

Okay, so you're never changing your views no matter how much sense I throw at either of you, way to be pros.


Here's a video about the UK.

 

it's not about changing of views, it's about logic and evidence, like what I've seen here:

 

http://finance.whart...-Governance.pdf

 

That's how Japan is, shareholders basically have no power. That's not about views or opinions, that's about facts. I knew Japanese businesses operated differently from American/European business, but even I was shocked that basically it is kind of an opposite of what Western business is like. Me trying to argue against would be like me arguing that water doesn't exist. It would be my opinion, perhaps, but it would also be factually WRONG. It would just be STUPID

http://www.nintendo....tion/index.html
Nintendo have been listening to those morons, as a stock holder you vote on issues.

And Nintendo (and Japanese businesses in general) only really pay attention to them as a courtesy.

"Tre, on 14 Dec 2013 - 8:10 PM, said:
My turn to chime in. Who is this "core" people are speaking of? I mean really. The Wii sold 100 million consoles. Does that mean 100 million people bought it? PS3 and XBox 360 sold roughly 80 million a piece. Does that mean 160 million people bought it? All together that would be 260 people, right? The answer to all the questions is no. The Wii U, PS4, and Xbox One is at around 8 million. Is that 8 million people? No. People are dipping and buying multiple console. The 8th generation market have not been establish yet to even know if the Wii U is doing poorly or if the PS4 and Xbox One is doing great. The so called "core" audience have not been establish for this generation. It is going to take at least 3 years to figure that out. Nintendo is doing what most company do. They are trying to find their market and exploit it. All this talk of investors. Investors do not even know the extent of what they are investing in. They invest in numbers. Even though the total console sales of each generation has increased, there is a time when it might slow down. Numbers could be decreased by have more stable products that do not need to be purchased again. Nintendo management is fine. They know what games people want. They probably have many discussions about if a game should resurface. As someone mention, they tried with Kid Icarus. They will try another and another until they find one that sticks. The internet is a small (very small) percentage of the gaming community. I understand the OP being frustrated but it comes a time when people need to leave politics to the ones in the gaming industry."

That is the funny thing, Japanese business prioritizes STAKEHOLDERS i.e. employees, suppliers, and customers. Furthermore....the way Japanese businesses are structured makes it near impossible for investors to influence the board of directors. In fact, most of the time the board of directors tend to be people from INSIDE the company who tend to be voted in by the CEO himself. Yeah, the CEO basically can't be taken out except by himself. Everything you THINK you know about business, you kinda have to do the exact opposite with Japanese. It's THAT different from the West.

Steve Jobs was Apple's original CEO. He was kicked out and then the new management nearly bankrupted Apple. Once Steve Jobs came back he reversed many of the other management's changes and that saved the company.

 

Firing management is really nothing more than a lazy, quick way to shut up whiny, know-nothing shareholders. However, since shareholder activism isn't prominent in Japanese business, you're not gonna see Iwata resign anytime soon.

But Sony didn't to bring people in with Killzone because the dudebros were already there. It's a different situation. It's not gonna be like nintendo makes aweseom shooter and suddenly all the dudebros are all "I totally respect nintendo now, and am going to buy a wii u to play this game." because in case you haven't noticed, most dudebros

are 

complete

idiots.

They're too busy trying to impress their friends with manly they are by buying COD and how their 13 year old dicks have totally grown half a millimeter. They already have their notions about Nintendo, and trying to get them to come to Nintendo is a waste of their money, especially since last gen they had a system the dudebros hated, but still had  the best console sales.

 

And we also have the "hardcore" snobs who have been brainwashed into believing all this specs bs. Sometimes a lot of their crap comes off as stuff you'd see in a political smear campaign. Whining about 3rd parties, whining about specs, whining about the name, whining about Nintendo continuing to use its most successful franchises. It's the pinnacle of insecure pseudo-intellectual tripe.

You mean PC "master race"?

And what's hilarious about that label is that it was meant as a snide insult. It was Yahtzee basically saying that too many PC gamers care about making their games as complex, unintuitive, and irritating as possible because that's the only way a game could justify being PC exclusive because there really wasn't any reason anymore aside FROM how shiny a game's textures were. But of course, idiots hijacked that term and forgot that it was meant to be a slam against them.

Iwata will have to answer to share holders eventually. He can't keep saying "1 game next year! 9 million units!", he has to have some results soon or they will have zero confidence in him.
Hopefully, they stay away from iOS and Android development no matter what.

 

...It amazes me at how many times I have to reiterate this due to people not doing their homework properly. So here it goes again: SHAREHOLDERS DON'T DO CRAP IN JAPANESE BUSINESS. That stereotype of shareholders bullying Boards or CEOs, well...that's a WESTERN thing. That doesn't really exist in Japan. It's just not in their culture. So, NO, Iwata will not be answering to any shareholders anytime soon. The only way he's going to leave is through resignation and that's probably only going to happen when he's too old to keep the position. Which is going to be a LOOOOOONG time.

http://www.nintendo....30627qa/03.html
Iwata answering questions.

He will eventually have to answer to his actions. Japanese or not, shareholders of Nintendo are all around the world.
If they sell their stock low, the value of Nintendo stock falls, and the company loses profit from shareholders buying shares in them.
It hurts their business in the long run and is against their best interests.
It's not a WESTERN thing, it's basic public listing business practice worldwide.
Having a "boysclub" mentality will only get you so far, even in Japan.

Problem: investors can't actually do anything against Iwata. Oh, they'll kick and scream like children but eventually they'll shut up. At best they can TRY to yell at the board of directors....who all happen to be Japanese. Yeah, not gonna work with them. This isn't so much a "boy's club" mentality as it is people telling others to know their place. Investors are that: investors, they're people who buy stock. And quite frankly it seems to me that Nintendo as a whole is getting sick of them. Iwata doesn't CARE about share prices because they're not all that meaningful when you get down to it. They're an abstract concept that people attribute a value to based pretty much on word of mouth.

So you're saying they're going to buy up all their stock, and go back to being a private company?
Back when they were at their lowest share price since the Wii and DS, they had $2.3 Billion worth of shares on the market.
They could buy back all those shares at a much higher premium and waste around $6 billion of the ~$10 billion they have in investments and bonds/cash.
I doubt that would be in their best interest though, just to keep Iwata in a job he's not doing very well at.

More like just let useless investors screech at walls because it's all they're worth. The moment Nintendo listens to those morons is a BAD day for the company.