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Sonic Vs Mario


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#1 RETROBLAST

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 09:13 AM

Back in the day, when sonic first came out on the Genesis, I picked up the console to check it out.  

 

I have to say that Sonic 1 was a good game and it served a purpose to me back then ... it was a relief from the intense and unforgiving platforming offered in the Mario games I had at the time which were Super Mario Bros, Super Mario Bros 3, and Super Mario World.

 

Sonic's moves where much more basic than Mario's moves ... he could walk, run, and turn into a ball and roll ... that was it.  So it was easier to deal with Sonic than Mario and the platforming and enemies were easier than Mario as well.  So it was the kind of game you could relax while you played it.

 

Sonic 1 offered just enough platforming challenge not to be too easy but not enough challenge to get ultra frustrating.  It offered a large character, size wise, than Mario and it was a brighter, cheerier game as well.  Sonic had personality too ... if you did not move him, he would tap his foot (a big deal back in the day)  The special stages in Sonic 1 were awesome ... with the level turning and having to make your way to the chaos emerald without falling into an exit ... it was very visually stimulating and advanced for its time .. in my opinion, the best special stage of any Sonic game.

 

To me, it seemed like a great start for a series ... then when Sonic 2 came out I got that too.  Immediately I realized that the graphics were more muddy than Sonic 1 and the gameplay was headed down hill ... the spin dash helped you rev up speed so you didn't have to walk back to pick up speed to make it through a loop, a nice touch but the problem was, it turned into a loop da loop game and was less of a platformer than Sonic 1.  It was riddled with cheap deaths caused by speeding up and then running into an enemy you could not see until after he had already killed you.

 

Instead of Sonic growing up and obtaining new good moves, he was falling apart as a platformer and becoming a racing game.

 

After Sonic 3, I had had enough with Sonic and had no interest in buying another Sega Console.  I said to myself ... If I don't like their Mascot games, which are supposed to be their flagship games, what else is there?

 

From the very start, Mario was a better platformer, the best actually, starting with Super Mario Bros.  It had very tight controls, tons of secret things in it (hidden blocks, veins, secret exits), and it had great power ups too ...

 

The thing is, because Mario was so good and had done things right with regard to gameplay mechanics, moves, and power ups, it destroyed the chances of any other platformer that would come after it.  Mario already had the right moves so anyone else who copied those moves would be in trouble for outright copying Mario.  So developers would have to scratch their heads thinking ... how can we make a platformer that is not Mario?  The problem is, you really can't come up with a great platformer that does not borrow from Mario and if you get too close to his moves and the mechanics of his enemies, you run the risk of being in trouble for copying Mario.  This is why Mario, even to this day is the best platformer.

 

As Sonic's moves got worse over time, Mario's moves just got better and better.  Nintendo had the perfect platformer to start with but amazingly, they kept adding additional moves to Mario that perfected perfection.  At first Mario only walked, ran, jumped, became bigger, and got power ups that allowed him to shoot fire balls and become invincible.  As time went on, he was able to backtrack in a level, wall jump, fly, glide, butt stomp, and now climb walls as a cat and multiply himself!  

 

The thing is, when each new ability for Mario debuts, it is done perfectly and you get the sense that he was always made to do the new thing he is doing ... its natural.  We have become so accustomed to his new moves that it is easy to forget there was a time he did not have them ... go back an play Super Mario Bros and tell me if you don't screw up because you think you can back track, butt stop, or wall jump ....

 

Generally, with each new game, Mario gets better and better adding new moves to a repertoire which has already been rock solid from day one ... and it is because of this that no one has been able to match the great gameplay found in Mario games .... he has always had the moves and is constantly adding new ones that work, thereby making it even harder for other developers to keep up or outdo him.

 

Sonic will always be at a loss, Mario already has the moves.  Sonic can try elements that Mario has already accomplished to improve its game such as 360 play fields (Mario Galaxy)  But Sonic Will Always Be In A Lost World because Mario will always be King, he was just born with the right moves.

 

 


I'v Been Playing Video Games Since The Days Of Pong & It Looks Like I'll Be Playing Them 'Till The Day I'm Gone !!!


#2 Kokirii

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 09:52 AM

Mario forever


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#3 TriplePower

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 10:15 AM

I can only root for Mario because I haven't played even a single Sonic game.


Edited by TriplePower, 19 October 2013 - 11:18 PM.

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#4 Jason777123

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 10:24 AM

I'll just leave these here:



#5 Gimbal

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 10:50 AM

The thing is, when each new ability for Mario debuts, it is done perfectly and you get the sense that he was always made to do the new thing he is doing ... its natural.  We have become so accustomed to his new moves that it is easy to forget there was a time he did not have them ... go back an play Super Mario Bros and tell me if you don't screw up because you think you can back track, butt stop, or wall jump ....

 

Never ever. Well not true. When I was a kid I tried to back track. I don't think I ever screwed up because of that though. I never imagined at all that he could wall jump in that game though. That doesn't make sense to me.


"So if Zero Suit Samus is fanbait for guys, where is the fanbait for girls? Why isn’t Captain Falcon wearing a thong or sporting a chest twice the size of his last model? Why doesn’t Mario have an absurd crotch buldge holding in his 10 inch slice of manhood? Why doesn’t Yoshi look like a Fist of the North Starcharacter.
 
That, my friends, is why the design is sexist."~Angelo M. D'Argenio-4/17/2014
 
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#6 Mocha Bear

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 11:01 AM

Heh, funny. I have pretty much the opposite opinion.

 

Sonic 1 offered just enough platforming challenge not to be too easy but not enough challenge to get ultra frustrating.  It offered a large character, size wise, than Mario and it was a brighter, cheerier game as well.  Sonic had personality too ... if you did not move him, he would tap his foot (a big deal back in the day)  The special stages in Sonic 1 were awesome ... with the level turning and having to make your way to the chaos emerald without falling into an exit ... it was very visually stimulating and advanced for its time .. in my opinion, the best special stage of any Sonic game.

 

To me, it seemed like a great start for a series ... then when Sonic 2 came out I got that too.  Immediately I realized that the graphics were more muddy than Sonic 1 and the gameplay was headed down hill ... the spin dash helped you rev up speed so you didn't have to walk back to pick up speed to make it through a loop, a nice touch but the problem was, it turned into a loop da loop game and was less of a platformer than Sonic 1.  It was riddled with cheap deaths caused by speeding up and then running into an enemy you could not see until after he had already killed you.

 

Instead of Sonic growing up and obtaining new good moves, he was falling apart as a platformer and becoming a racing game.

 

After Sonic 3, I had had enough with Sonic and had no interest in buying another Sega Console.  I said to myself ... If I don't like their Mascot games, which are supposed to be their flagship games, what else is there?

 

You didn't like Sonic 3? Why?


- You're so money and you don't even know it!

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#7 RETROBLAST

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 11:23 AM

Never ever. Well not true. When I was a kid I tried to back track. I don't think I ever screwed up because of that though. I never imagined at all that he could wall jump in that game though. That doesn't make sense to me.

 

I think you did not get what I was saying so let me try to explain it better.  I was not talking about playing the game, Super Mario Bros when it first came out, I am talking about going back and playing it now after having played the many Mario games that have come after it.

 

I have played Mario Bros recently and would pass things up thinking, oh, I'll just back track and grab that in a minute and just as I passed it I realized .... wait, I can't back track!  Also as I have plummeted to my death in Mario Bros, I instinctively tried to wall jump back to safety and realize ... wait, I can't wall jump, Then there are times in Super Mario Bros when I am standing on top of a brick and jump up and try to butt stomp the brick and realize ... wait, I can't butt stomp!

 

So what I am saying is, Mario's new moves are so natural and work so well, its easy to forget he did not always have those moves when he started out.



Heh, funny. I have pretty much the opposite opinion.

 

 

You didn't like Sonic 3? Why?

 

I think the main thing for me was the over all muddy graphics and I was not crazy about the special / bonus rounds as well ... here is where sonic was on the road to being a speed demon and off the road to being a platformer for me.



I'll just leave these here:

 

These don't look nearly as exciting or contain the platforming elements of a Galaxy game to me, just my opinion.

 


Edited by RETROBLAST, 19 October 2013 - 11:24 AM.

I'v Been Playing Video Games Since The Days Of Pong & It Looks Like I'll Be Playing Them 'Till The Day I'm Gone !!!


#8 Jason777123

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 11:27 AM

To try and compare Mario and Sonic is pretty much a mute point nowadays. Neither SEGA nor Nintendo are in a position where they can compete with each other. If you haven't realized this already, they have basically teamed up. This is why Sonic Lost World is Nintendo exclusive, Mario and Sonic at the Olympics is a regular release, and Sonic is basically a permanent character in SSB. Also, yes, Sonic Lost World may be inspired by Mario Galaxy, but both Mario and Sonic have been inspired by each other before.

In case you don't believe me that Mario has had inspirations from Sonic, here's a list of things Sonic did first:
Spike Traps
Bounce Pads (Springs)
Continuous  Pipes (Chemical Plant Zone)
Planetoids (Mad Space, Sonic Adventure 2)
Slopes (Yes, even this)

And these are just some of the things I can think of off the top of my head, I am sure there are plenty more. In the end, trying to say that Mario has done it first and that anybody who tries to make a game that has an inspiration from Mario are just copying Mario is like saying anybody who tries to make a video game is copying off of Pong. Let's remember also, that Mario was NOT the first platforming game either.


Edited by Jason777123, 19 October 2013 - 11:28 AM.


#9 Gimbal

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 11:36 AM

I think you did not get what I was saying so let me try to explain it better.  I was not talking about playing the game, Super Mario Bros when it first came out, I am talking about going back and playing it now after having played the many Mario games that have come after it.

 

I have played Mario Bros recently and would pass things up thinking, oh, I'll just back track and grab that in a minute and just as I passed it I realized .... wait, I can't back track!  Also as I have plummeted to my death in Mario Bros, I instinctively tried to wall jump back to safety and realize ... wait, I can't wall jump, Then there are times in Super Mario Bros when I am standing on top of a brick and jump up and try to butt stomp the brick and realize ... wait, I can't butt stomp!

 

So what I am saying is, Mario's new moves are so natural and work so well, its easy to forget he did not always have those moves when he started out.

 

I know exactly what you meant. It never happened to me. I played games like Mario 64 before I ever played Super Mario Bros. I can kind of understand you trying to wall jump after you screw up but I don't understand anyone screwing up because they tried to wall jump. I never felt like I could butt stomp in that game either.


"So if Zero Suit Samus is fanbait for guys, where is the fanbait for girls? Why isn’t Captain Falcon wearing a thong or sporting a chest twice the size of his last model? Why doesn’t Mario have an absurd crotch buldge holding in his 10 inch slice of manhood? Why doesn’t Yoshi look like a Fist of the North Starcharacter.
 
That, my friends, is why the design is sexist."~Angelo M. D'Argenio-4/17/2014
 
"Yes, because owning only 1 game in this series makes you qualified to have an opinion on it"~PyroKinesis-5/7/2014

 

"He is a game dev, critic, games media writer, and candidate for a phd by the way. So, LMFAO."~3Dude 9/4/2014

 


#10 RETROBLAST

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 11:56 AM

To try and compare Mario and Sonic is pretty much a mute point nowadays. Neither SEGA nor Nintendo are in a position where they can compete with each other. If you haven't realized this already, they have basically teamed up. This is why Sonic Lost World is Nintendo exclusive, Mario and Sonic at the Olympics is a regular release, and Sonic is basically a permanent character in SSB. Also, yes, Sonic Lost World may be inspired by Mario Galaxy, but both Mario and Sonic have been inspired by each other before.

In case you don't believe me that Mario has had inspirations from Sonic, here's a list of things Sonic did first:
Spike Traps
Bounce Pads (Springs)
Continuous  Pipes (Chemical Plant Zone)
Planetoids (Mad Space, Sonic Adventure 2)
Slopes (Yes, even this)

And these are just some of the things I can think of off the top of my head, I am sure there are plenty more. In the end, trying to say that Mario has done it first and that anybody who tries to make a game that has an inspiration from Mario are just copying Mario is like saying anybody who tries to make a video game is copying off of Pong. Let's remember also, that Mario was NOT the first platforming game either.

 

You do make some good points here but Mario's list of moves seems to have outdone Sonic on all levels ... He also has very tight control ... something lacking in many platformers ... to this day, I can not say that I have played a platformer that was as good as a Mario platformer.



I know exactly what you meant. It never happened to me. I played games like Mario 64 before I ever played Super Mario Bros. I can kind of understand you trying to wall jump after you screw up but I don't understand anyone screwing up because they tried to wall jump. I never felt like I could butt stomp in that game either.

 

when I used the term screw up, it was not to imply dying or anything in the game, it was in terms of thinking ... thinking you could do something you can't.



I have to say, it really is Mario that attracts me to Nintendo consoles.   After playing platformer games on other consoles, I never feel they are of the quality in terms of gameplay as Mario is ... so at some point, I always wind up getting a Nintendo console.

 

But Nintendo lacks First Person Shooters ... I like playing FPS campaigns, not online multiplayer ... so I always need another system to satisfy that need ... the thing is, I do not see why Nintendo does not make a FPS or even a bunch of them ... if they did, I might not need another console.


Edited by RETROBLAST, 19 October 2013 - 12:06 PM.

I'v Been Playing Video Games Since The Days Of Pong & It Looks Like I'll Be Playing Them 'Till The Day I'm Gone !!!


#11 Jason777123

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 12:04 PM

You do make some good points here but Mario's list of moves seems to have outdone Sonic on all levels ... He also has very tight control ... something lacking in many platformers ... to this day, I can not say that I have played a platformer that was as good as a Mario platformer.

    Then you have obviously not been willing enough to give other platformers a chance. There have been many, many platformers that I have felt were definitely up to par or sometimes even better in controls than Mario platformers. In my opinion, Super Meat Boy still has the smoothest and most precise controls out of any 2D platformer I have ever played, ever. Both Rayman Origins and Rayman Legends are fantastic 2D platformers. There were tons of great platfomers for the NES such as the Mega Man and Ninja Gaiden series, Banjo Kazooie/Tooie and Donkey Kong 64 are also great 3D platformers that came out for the N64. All of the PS1 Crash Bandicoot and Spyro games are extremely solid 3D platformers. Sonic Adventure 1 was definitely a revolutionary platformer for its time. There are also a lot more platformers that I'm probably forgetting about and even some obscure and unrecognized ones as well. Not to mention all of the other platforming games Nintendo themselves have put out, like the Donkey Kong Country series, Kirby, the older Metroid games, Kid Icarus and so many more. All I am trying to say is that you're only limiting yourself if you truly believe Mario platformers are the only good platformers out there.



#12 RETROBLAST

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 12:10 PM

    Then you have obviously not been willing enough to give other platformers a chance. There have been many, many platformers that I have felt were definitely up to par or sometimes even better in controls than Mario platformers. In my opinion, Super Meat Boy still has the smoothest and most precise controls out of any 2D platformer I have ever played, ever. Both Rayman Origins and Rayman Legends are fantastic 2D platformers. There were tons of great platfomers for the NES such as the Mega Man and Ninja Gaiden series, Banjo Kazooie/Tooie and Donkey Kong 64 are also great 3D platformers that came out for the N64. All of the PS1 Crash Bandicoot and Spyro games are extremely solid 3D platformers. Sonic Adventure 1 was definitely a revolutionary platformer for its time. There are also a lot more platformers that I'm probably forgetting about and even some obscure and unrecognized ones as well. Not to mention all of the other platforming games Nintendo themselves have put out, like the Donkey Kong Country series, Kirby, the older Metroid games, Kid Icarus and so many more. All I am trying to say is that you're only limiting yourself if you truly believe Mario platformers are the only good platformers out there.

 

Don't get me wrong, I have enjoyed other platformers but feel that Mario is the best.

 

The only games that I have not played that you have mentioned is Sonic Adventure and Super Meat Boy ... Tell me about Super Meat Boy if you will.


Edited by RETROBLAST, 19 October 2013 - 12:12 PM.

I'v Been Playing Video Games Since The Days Of Pong & It Looks Like I'll Be Playing Them 'Till The Day I'm Gone !!!


#13 Jason777123

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 12:21 PM

Don't get me wrong, I have enjoyed other platformers but feel that Mario is the best.

 

The only games that I have not played that you have mentioned is Sonic Adventure and Super Meat Boy ... Tell me about Super Meat Boy if you will.

    Super Meat Boy is an indie 2D platformer that came out a couple years ago on PC, Xbox Arcade, and PSN, it's a very challenging platformer with short levels, but very smooth and responsive controls. Here's a video of it:



#14 RETROBLAST

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 12:39 PM

I'll check it out, probably real cheap now on PSN too ... What about De Blob?

Here is a totally unrelated statement ... My most anticipated game this year is A Link Between Worlds ... I like that Link can become flat and walk on walls but Nintendo is acting like they invented that mechanic, but it was the premise of Sideways which I played on PS3, but it looks like Nintendo has integrated it very well and the thing about Sideways was you were always in that mode so the transformation of 3D to 2D in Zelda ALBW seems revolutionary but they stole the idea.

Edited by RETROBLAST, 19 October 2013 - 12:41 PM.

I'v Been Playing Video Games Since The Days Of Pong & It Looks Like I'll Be Playing Them 'Till The Day I'm Gone !!!


#15 Nollog

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 01:49 PM

Sonic 3 was best played as Knuckles.


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#16 magiciandude

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 04:26 PM

I'll just leave these here:
 


Of Nelson and Murdock. Avocados at law.

 

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#17 RETROBLAST

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 04:36 PM

 

That is awesome !!! Now we know where Mario Galaxy came from .... Only played the first world in that game ... if this comes to virtual console or Wii U I'm picking it up !!!


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#18 Joshua West

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 06:17 PM

I hold the opposite opinion of Mario vs. sonic.<br />To me Mario's best days were his early ones (i.e. SMB1,2,3, and lost levels)and that subsequent Mario have been solid but not groundbreaking or unique in a way that Sonic 3 or the Adventure games or most recently Sonic Colors have been, because Sonic always tries to do lots of new things because his games are always met with lots of cynicism to overcome, wereas the universal praise heaped upon Mario has caused him to create fairly standard platformers, making me jaded with the series

#19 kirbylover

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 06:23 PM

 But Sonic Will Always Be In A Lost World

I see what you did there.


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#20 Jason777123

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 07:25 PM

Come on guyz, we all know Mario and Sonic are just rip offs of Pitfall!






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