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Batman Arkham Knight revealed...No WiiU version


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#61 MorbidGod

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 12:54 AM

So just because they weren't the highest selling games, they didn't sell well at all? Well hell, I guess everything but CoD and Madden suck now. Oh wow, Nintendo made amazing games on their systems, it's almost like they had a significant investment in doing so.


I'm saying when third party games make the top ten of other platforms, and sell well over two million copies, and yet they can't do that on any Nintendo platform going back to SNES, is saying something. It's not like it takes much to get on the top ten list. Metroid Prime only sold 2 million yet it's on the top ten list for GCN. And even looking at the top 25, you would still see Nintendo more then third party games. And again, the top selling game only sold 7 million on the GCN. Sony's list was much higher. Third parties are able to sell on other platforms at much higher numbers. They are able to reach the top ten or twenty five list. But they can't see the same success on Nintendo platforms, even with the same game.

Look at Assassin's Creed 4. http://videogamemano...4-sales-figures Wii U couldn't even sell over a million copies for that game. Does it just suck I guess? I could go all day. Showing game by game comparison. For any Nintendo platform. You can't tell me every game made by third parties just suck.

Splinter Cell for GCN. http://www.vgchartz....-splinter-cell/ not even one million units. PS2? Over two million. I played the GCN game. It didn't suck. It was fun, challenging. But I guess it was because the GCN didn't sell well, right? Wait ... then why could Resident Evil sell over a million copies?

Look at Metal Gear Solid. http://www.vgchartz....he-twin-snakes/ not even a million copies. A Nintendo developer - who didnt suck back then - teamed up with Konami to remake a great PS1 game. Yet it couldn't sell over a million copies. Guess it sucked, right?

Should I continue?

It's not like nintendo is sabotaging them, they just make the best games for their systems.


I'm not saying Nintendo is. I'm just looking at the numbers, just like they do and have been.
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#62 KeptMyWiiUAndLeftTheForums

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 02:00 AM

I'm saying when third party games make the top ten of other platforms, and sell well over two million copies, and yet they can't do that on any Nintendo platform going back to SNES, is saying something. It's not like it takes much to get on the top ten list. Metroid Prime only sold 2 million yet it's on the top ten list for GCN. And even looking at the top 25, you would still see Nintendo more then third party games. And again, the top selling game only sold 7 million on the GCN. Sony's list was much higher. Third parties are able to sell on other platforms at much higher numbers. They are able to reach the top ten or twenty five list. But they can't see the same success on Nintendo platforms, even with the same game.

Look at Assassin's Creed 4. http://videogamemano...4-sales-figures Wii U couldn't even sell over a million copies for that game. Does it just suck I guess? I could go all day. Showing game by game comparison. For any Nintendo platform. You can't tell me every game made by third parties just suck.

Splinter Cell for GCN. http://www.vgchartz....-splinter-cell/ not even one million units. PS2? Over two million. I played the GCN game. It didn't suck. It was fun, challenging. But I guess it was because the GCN didn't sell well, right? Wait ... then why could Resident Evil sell over a million copies?

Look at Metal Gear Solid. http://www.vgchartz....he-twin-snakes/ not even a million copies. A Nintendo developer - who didnt suck back then - teamed up with Konami to remake a great PS1 game. Yet it couldn't sell over a million copies. Guess it sucked, right?

Should I continue?


I'm not saying Nintendo is. I'm just looking at the numbers, just like they do and have been.

Maybe Wii U sales were less than 1 million because there are like 7 million Wii u owners tops. It's not just a numbers thing, it's comparative, and based on the time the game was released, how much press it gets, etc. There is just so much more to it than sales numbers. And WAAAY more to it than how it tiered compared to Nintendo games.


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#63 Hunter

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 02:40 AM

-Complete half-assed efforts-

Resident Evil Umbrella/Darkside Chronicles. While the HD twins get full games, the Wii got on-rail shooters. (I personally like these games but, they could have simply remade the older games in their entirety ala RE1 and given us something truly awesome.)

-Dead Space (Wii) Once again, an on rails shooter. EA could have just made a non-HD Dead Space. Nope! Not cheap enough!

-Zombi U. I put this on the list with restraint because at times it does look like the game had 'some' effort put in to it. But let's be honest, if this was a game for the Xbox/Playstation it would have had a MUCH higher level of polish. Oh, and an online mode.

 

These examples aren't fair. I don't think putting these games on the wii would be as simple as making it "non-HD". The Wii was extremely underpowered in comparison to the ps3/360. As for ZombiU, that is an excellent game and what you are suggesting is just speculation. It probably would have been more polished if it was released on other consoles but that's because they would have had more time to work on it without having to get it done by a new console's launch. 



#64 MorbidGod

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 04:11 AM

Maybe Wii U sales were less than 1 million because there are like 7 million Wii u owners tops. It's not just a numbers thing, it's comparative, and based on the time the game was released, how much press it gets, etc. There is just so much more to it than sales numbers. And WAAAY more to it than how it tiered compared to Nintendo games.


The PS4 had less sales then the Wii U at the time of that article. And yet the PS4 version of Assassin Creed 4 were more then a million.
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#65 SailtheSeas

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 06:26 AM

The PS4 had less sales then the Wii U at the time of that article. And yet the PS4 version of Assassin Creed 4 were more then a million.

 

As I say if it's not Mario or Zelda, Nintendo gamers just won't buy it in high enough numbers.



#66 Octimus

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 06:29 AM

it is difficult for developeur to propose a WiiU release in the same time as the xbox and ps4 version because the Wii U is a generation behind and so the game will not be the same

 

 

 

 

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#67 MorbidGod

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 06:57 AM

As I say if it's not Mario or Zelda, Nintendo gamers just won't buy it in high enough numbers.


That's what I've been saying. Which, again, is why better hardware wouldn't help Nintendo with third parties. They just use excises.

it is difficult for developeur to propose a WiiU release in the same time as the xbox and ps4 version because the Wii U is a generation behind and so the game will not be the same


I beg to differ. The Wii U is not a generation behind. The Wii U hardware is weaker, sure, but not live the Wii vs PS3. It's more like 360 vs PS3 or N64 vs PS1 is probably a better comparison. But they were still able to develop multiplats back then, and still can today.

Or even PC vs PS4. Because the most powerful PC is light years ahead of the weak and meager PS4. But they are still able to develop Batman for PC and PS4.

You know the secret? Develop for the weakest platform and then port up.
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#68 Azure-Edge

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 10:14 AM

I'm saying when third party games make the top ten of other platforms, and sell well over two million copies, and yet they can't do that on any Nintendo platform going back to SNES, is saying something. It's not like it takes much to get on the top ten list. Metroid Prime only sold 2 million yet it's on the top ten list for GCN. And even looking at the top 25, you would still see Nintendo more then third party games. And again, the top selling game only sold 7 million on the GCN. Sony's list was much higher. Third parties are able to sell on other platforms at much higher numbers. They are able to reach the top ten or twenty five list. But they can't see the same success on Nintendo platforms, even with the same game.

Look at Assassin's Creed 4. http://videogamemano...4-sales-figures Wii U couldn't even sell over a million copies for that game. Does it just suck I guess? I could go all day. Showing game by game comparison. For any Nintendo platform. You can't tell me every game made by third parties just suck.

Splinter Cell for GCN. http://www.vgchartz....-splinter-cell/ not even one million units. PS2? Over two million. I played the GCN game. It didn't suck. It was fun, challenging. But I guess it was because the GCN didn't sell well, right? Wait ... then why could Resident Evil sell over a million copies?

Look at Metal Gear Solid. http://www.vgchartz....he-twin-snakes/ not even a million copies. A Nintendo developer - who didnt suck back then - teamed up with Konami to remake a great PS1 game. Yet it couldn't sell over a million copies. Guess it sucked, right?

Should I continue?


I'm not saying Nintendo is. I'm just looking at the numbers, just like they do and have been.

 

Go ahead and continue if you want. You're just making yourself look foolish. You have to take in to account install bases. As for ACIV selling better on the PS4 than the Wii U, that's pretty simple. 1) It was within a launch window and PS4 owners were looking for something to play. 2) They were toting ACIV as the 'definitive' edition IE it looked the prettiest.

 

Of course games are going to sell more copies on systems with a higher install base, especially if those same games are in a series that has already been established on those same systems. 

 

You're comparing the PS2 to the Gamecube. Guess what, one of those had a MUCH higher install base than the other. If they had equal sales in software, something would be terribly wrong. If you're going to try to argue with numbers, you can't pretend like the context of those numbers doesn't mean anything. 

 

You're also missing a large factor in all this, gamers as a whole have become suspicious and untrusting of third party efforts on Nintendo systems after all this time. People have just come to assume that third parties are going to half ass their way on a Nintendo platform, and they have every right to be suspicious. Third parties have made little to zero effort at trying to actually establish a fanbase when it comes to Nintendo systems, which you need if you want to see high sales. Do you know where that begins? Trust. The consumer needs to be able to trust third parties when they offer a product.

 

You want to know why third parties see way better sales on Sony consoles? Because that fanbase has zero doubt that they will be given the best. That they aren't at risk of buying a game only to be denied content and/or support. When they buy a game, they know that there won't be a better version in less than a year that's exclusive to another system, thus making their purchase a waste of their time and money. Third parties have a great relationship with Sony, but more importantly they have a great relationship with people who buy Sony's gamers. They've taken the time and the effort to build their fanbases on the playstation brand by releasing, not one decent game, not a few good games, but many great games. Hell it is so rare these days that ANY third party game doesn't come to the Playstation that when they are passed over, people rage over it regardless of the game itself.

 

Now, compare that to what third parties have done on the Nintendo brand and you really expect them to post similar sales? Third parties have destroyed their image on Nintendo systems and it's going to take a lot more than a few rushed ports to change that. 



These examples aren't fair. I don't think putting these games on the wii would be as simple as making it "non-HD". The Wii was extremely underpowered in comparison to the ps3/360. As for ZombiU, that is an excellent game and what you are suggesting is just speculation. It probably would have been more polished if it was released on other consoles but that's because they would have had more time to work on it without having to get it done by a new console's launch. 

 

I'm not saying they put the PS3/360 games on to the Wii. I'm just saying they could have made Wii versions instead of making arcade games. They could have made an awesome Resident Evil on the Wii and they could have made an amazing Dead Space on the Wii. but they chose not to. 

 

As for ZombiU, that's exactly my point. If it was on a different system, it would have been handled differently. They could have pushed the game back, they obviously have no problem pushing back Watch Dogs on the PS4 and Xbone to make sure it's up to par. 


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#69 MorbidGod

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 11:59 AM

Go ahead and continue if you want. You're just making yourself look foolish. You have to take in to account install bases. As for ACIV selling better on the PS4 than the Wii U, that's pretty simple. 1) It was within a launch window and PS4 owners were looking for something to play. 2) They were toting ACIV as the 'definitive' edition IE it looked the prettiest.

Of course games are going to sell more copies on systems with a higher install base, especially if those same games are in a series that has already been established on those same systems.

You're comparing the PS2 to the Gamecube. Guess what, one of those had a MUCH higher install base than the other. If they had equal sales in software, something would be terribly wrong. If you're going to try to argue with numbers, you can't pretend like the context of those numbers doesn't mean anything.

You're also missing a large factor in all this, gamers as a whole have become suspicious and untrusting of third party efforts on Nintendo systems after all this time. People have just come to assume that third parties are going to half ass their way on a Nintendo platform, and they have every right to be suspicious. Third parties have made little to zero effort at trying to actually establish a fanbase when it comes to Nintendo systems, which you need if you want to see high sales. Do you know where that begins? Trust. The consumer needs to be able to trust third parties when they offer a product.

You want to know why third parties see way better sales on Sony consoles? Because that fanbase has zero doubt that they will be given the best. That they aren't at risk of buying a game only to be denied content and/or support. When they buy a game, they know that there won't be a better version in less than a year that's exclusive to another system, thus making their purchase a waste of their time and money. Third parties have a great relationship with Sony, but more importantly they have a great relationship with people who buy Sony's gamers. They've taken the time and the effort to build their fanbases on the playstation brand by releasing, not one decent game, not a few good games, but many great games. Hell it is so rare these days that ANY third party game doesn't come to the Playstation that when they are passed over, people rage over it regardless of the game itself.

Now, compare that to what third parties have done on the Nintendo brand and you really expect them to post similar sales? Third parties have destroyed their image on Nintendo systems and it's going to take a lot more than a few rushed ports to change that.



I'm not saying they put the PS3/360 games on to the Wii. I'm just saying they could have made Wii versions instead of making arcade games. They could have made an awesome Resident Evil on the Wii and they could have made an amazing Dead Space on the Wii. but they chose not to.

As for ZombiU, that's exactly my point. If it was on a different system, it would have been handled differently. They could have pushed the game back, they obviously have no problem pushing back Watch Dogs on the PS4 and Xbone to make sure it's up to par.


ACIV on the PS4 had a smaller install base then the Wii U in Jan 2014. So then by your logic, the Wii U should of had more sales.

Yes, PS2 had a larger install base. But there were plenty of 3rd party games - like Resident Evil and Resident Evil 4 - that sold over a million copies on the GCN. So your saying Splinter Cell sucked compared to those games? I prefer SC over RE any day.

I'm not expecting every game to sell top ten of all time. Neither is the publisher. But they expect their games to sell. And when every console it sells better - EVEN ONES WITH SMALLER INSTALL base - and one doesn't, there is a problem there. They are naturally bias. They won't see the flaws we see. All they know is the simple fact the game didn't sell well.
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#70 Azure-Edge

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 12:16 PM

ACIV on the PS4 had a smaller install base then the Wii U in Jan 2014. So then by your logic, the Wii U should of had more sales.

Yes, PS2 had a larger install base. But there were plenty of 3rd party games - like Resident Evil and Resident Evil 4 - that sold over a million copies on the GCN. So your saying Splinter Cell sucked compared to those games? I prefer SC over RE any day.

I'm not expecting every game to sell top ten of all time. Neither is the publisher. But they expect their games to sell. And when every console it sells better - EVEN ONES WITH SMALLER INSTALL base - and one doesn't, there is a problem there. They are naturally bias. They won't see the flaws we see. All they know is the simple fact the game didn't sell well.

 

Once again, ACIV was a launch game for that system and the playstation line had already had every console AC game since the series began. The Wii U did not. And like I said before, the PS4 version was being toted as the better version. 

 

Splinter Cell is definitely more niche than Resident Evil, especially 4. Resident Evil 4 was a generation defining game, not so much with Splinter Cell.

 

Yes, there is a problem. But don't mistake problems with the hardware nor the players with the problems of the publisher. Don't make excuses for their own stupid decisions. If they can't see that they're sabotaging their already minimalist efforts then that's fine, they're stupid, but call them out on it. Call these publishers out on their bull crap and demand better.


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#71 MorbidGod

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 12:47 PM

Once again, ACIV was a launch game for that system and the playstation line had already had every console AC game since the series began. The Wii U did not. And like I said before, the PS4 version was being toted as the better version.

Splinter Cell is definitely more niche than Resident Evil, especially 4. Resident Evil 4 was a generation defining game, not so much with Splinter Cell.

Yes, there is a problem. But don't mistake problems with the hardware nor the players with the problems of the publisher. Don't make excuses for their own stupid decisions. If they can't see that they're sabotaging their already minimalist efforts then that's fine, they're stupid, but call them out on it. Call these publishers out on their bull crap and demand better.


I think this is a case of your saying tomato and I'm saying Tamata. I say that because I'm not denying that there are some valid reasons for these choices. All I am saying the publisher doesn't look at those reasons.

For example, lets look at Batman Origins. Yes, the Wii U didn't get all the same support the other editions did get. However, the sales weren't that great. Why would you spend money on a platform where your not going to get a lot of return? Yes, it's a catch 22 because you argue gamers inherently didn't buy the Wii U version because of the lack of support. But the publisher doesn't look at that, because the support is based off of sales.

I argue that gamers who bought a Wii U are either loyal Nintendo fans or gamers who all ready own a PS3/360. Well, if that's the case, they probably would buy the PS3/360 version because they bought the Wii U for it's exclusives.

Again, the publisher doesn't look at that. And with WB, they gave Wii U owners the Batman with all the updates. Did it sell well? Probably not, because of the reasons said above. But the publisher just looks at the numbers. They think their product rocks. Why wouldn't they?
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#72 Azure-Edge

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 02:29 PM

I think this is a case of your saying tomato and I'm saying Tamata. I say that because I'm not denying that there are some valid reasons for these choices. All I am saying the publisher doesn't look at those reasons.

For example, lets look at Batman Origins. Yes, the Wii U didn't get all the same support the other editions did get. However, the sales weren't that great. Why would you spend money on a platform where your not going to get a lot of return? Yes, it's a catch 22 because you argue gamers inherently didn't buy the Wii U version because of the lack of support. But the publisher doesn't look at that, because the support is based off of sales.

I argue that gamers who bought a Wii U are either loyal Nintendo fans or gamers who all ready own a PS3/360. Well, if that's the case, they probably would buy the PS3/360 version because they bought the Wii U for it's exclusives.

Again, the publisher doesn't look at that. And with WB, they gave Wii U owners the Batman with all the updates. Did it sell well? Probably not, because of the reasons said above. But the publisher just looks at the numbers. They think their product rocks. Why wouldn't they?

 

If they only look at sales then they're morons. People have this fascination with numbers because they think they don't lie. What most people don't understand however is that you can't just look at numbers and decide for yourself what they mean without looking at the context from which those numbers are drawn. Sales numbers are important, but why a game sells or doesn't is more important in the long run. Arkham Origins didn't sell well on the Wii U compared to the other two, but that doesn't mean anything unless you ask why and the answer is clear. They gimped the Wii U version, they hurt their own sales. I'm sorry, but these companies can't claim ignorance for this. They know that they screwed the Wii U version but they'd rather blame Nintendo and/or the fanbase for their mistakes. Just because they want to stick their heads in the ground doesn't mean we shouldn't call them out on it.


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#73 KeptMyWiiUAndLeftTheForums

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 05:13 PM

The PS4 had less sales then the Wii U at the time of that article. And yet the PS4 version of Assassin Creed 4 were more then a million.

Yeah and the PS4 has way less games to choose from.

Like I said, there are so many more factors.


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