Goodtwin

The free-to-try game service means that people shouldn't have to buy games to try them. The results don't surprise me, lol.

Why nintendo gamerz no buy owr gamz?

What in the GPU we don't know much about could possibly create games beyond the 350 GFLOPS barrier?

The gigantic ram banks for the shader units and other logic units would suggest the wii u gpu could get a lot more per flop than conventional architectures. All that ram around those logic units would sure give those flops a lot of bandwidth. There are many things that would get done much faster using double precision.....

The amount of work that can be done per flop isnt the same between all architectures and well.... between flops.

More flops= always more power is a common myth, like the mhz myth, that is currently being exploited heavily in marketing.

For instance, ps3's Cell 'theoretically' gets 240 gflops. Or is it 100? Well, Actually, its both. Cell gets 240 single precision gflops, but 'only' 100 double precision gflops (one of the main bottlenecks of dp is local ram bandwidth). Guess which one of those gets more per flop?

Thats why you see a lot of marketing around high gflops... But then sometimes realworld performance is lacking, and you find out the benchmark only used a small single precision loop that made the architecture look really good in a benchmark... But isnt indictive of real world performance.

Flops per cycle is only a small peice of a puzzle.

Even if the main RAM is completely free, doesn't it leave like only 400 MB @ 30fps or 200 MB @ 60 fps of data available per frame (which is the case of Mario Kart 8) ?

12.8/30 or 60 would get you around the numbers you specified.

Kind of. Though its not nearly as bad as it sounds. Its not like it only has only 200Mb available per frame, thats just how much can be transferred from the 1Gb holding pool per frame... And, its more than ps360 got, as their main mem bandwidth was destroyed by having to compensate the frame buffers and other bandwidth hogs via main mem bandwidth. Its why screen tearing was so horrible on those systems.

However, the most repeatedly used textures, will be kept in the leftover room of the edram, with a bandwidth in the triple digits, so even the heaviest hitting bandwidth hogs of texture assets are removed from clogging that bandwidth.

WIIU IS THE LOWEST LATENCY GAMING DEVICE EVER MADE even beating gamecube and wii

 

FACT AMD APU's are very high latency and ram bottle necking

 

IBM POWER MCM is very low latency and free of bottlenecks BIG HUGE PHAT DIFFERANCE IN DESIGN STANDARDS

 

wiiu has a custom from scratch video gaming game centric MCM /////ps4 and xbone have hacked APUs based on VERY SLOW NON GAMING SYSTEM ON CHIPS *fact*

 

 

look at ps4s hacked memory system its insulting

 

slowest latency ram they could have chose,,no edram or custom fast ram catches of any kind,,bottlenecked high latency bus system and a cpu bus that gpu data has to share and ether go thru cpu catch or thu a slow by-pass ITS A HACK JOB PURE AND SIMPLE

 

ITS CHEAP SONY DID IT """ON THE CHEAP"""

GFLOPS YOU SAY SONY HHHHHHHHMMMmmmmmmmm!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

SIMPLE TRUTH ""YOU CANNOT PROCESS WHAT ISNT THERE """"

 

WIIU MCM CATCH LIKE LATENCY VS AMD SOC APU OUTRAGOUS LATENCY

 

WIIU DDR3 WITH CUSTOM PRE FETCH = LOW LATENCY VS PS4 GDDR5 WITCH IS EXTREAMLY HIGH LATENCY

 

wiiu edram and sram multipul catches and confirmed cpu access to gpu edram = CATCH LIKE LATENCY vs ps4s read and write out to main ram for EVERYTHING high latency

 

this is so simple sony are lying thru there teeth high latency apu high latency bus and high latency ram and tiny catches !!!!!!!!

 

wiiu low latency ram low latency catches low latency mcm and low latency scratch pad edram for both cpu and gpu

 

 

 

SUB 5NS LATENCY vs 200NS LATENCY =40 x faster for wiiu MCM SPEEDS

 

sub 20ns latency ddr3 with custom pre fetch wiiu vs 200ns gddr5 ps4

 

simple truth

One of the problems regarding dev teams is that they're just throwing HUNDREDS at development, thinking it's an easy way to get things out faster. It's like trying to make a cake and thinking you can cut down on the baking time by just doubling the temperature. Doesn't work like that. For SOME games, large dev teams are inevitable (like Grand Theft Auto, The Elder Scrolls, and ANY MMO), but I don't see why we need 600+ man dev teams for everything. Pubs have become one-trick ponies by just doing blockbuster after blockbuster instead of doing blockbusters, but also SMALLER projects throughout the years.

Very true, an unsustainable business model.  You have to create a breadth of properties that appeal to different demographics to stay consistently profitable.  Many publishers rely on ONE demographic and throw all of their money at making games for them, when to be honest many of them don't spend a whole lot of money on games to begin with.

Right, and even though honestly disc streaming along with the main ram bandwidth is enough for most applications (textures aren't as bandwidth hungry as some would think) prioritizing commonly used textures to be housed in EDRAM would be effective, but it depends on the game being developed.

They aren't using the EDRAM 'yet'.  Many of them simply hadn't figured out what they were doing with the system, and Nintendo's tools weren't very good (you could argue even Nintendo didn't really know what they were doing with the system yet) when the current crop of games was released.  Obviously there are a couple that use it lightly, like Shin'en's game and Trine 2.  Just goes to show you that the indie guys were able to get more acquainted with the system in a shorter period of time than big house publishers.  A testament to their engineering prowess.

 

Considering that most developers have let themselves become factory production lines I get the feeling they don't really WANT to learn architecture more complex than "let's just keep throwing a bunch of RAM at it!" AAA production has just become such a mess that even the SLIGHTEST deviation throws wrenches in their beloved plans. It's kind of sad

Since we are the ones buying games, we kind of are an authority. Not alone, but if people group up, they can make a difference (cf. tripping removed in SSBWIIU). Many devs do care about people's opinion. Then intervene AAA publishers that force them to keep silence, and that's why we assume stuff like that.

I understand where you are coming from and I agree.  The problem is that when they've said pubilcly before that all of the next gen versions of games look "the same" but that isn't enough for a minority of people that feel that it needs to be "proved" they aren't going to give a damn.  

This is absolutely true.  A lot of people have wanted to just add up the bandwidth numbers and declare the Wii U as having phenomenal bandwidth, as if its just as good as the memory bandwidth on the PS4, and anyone with some common sense knows that 32MB of super high bandwidth can only do so much for the slow bandwidth of the main memory.  The question is where is the tipping point for hardware.  How powerful does a GPU need to be before its trully being limited by the memory.  With the Wii U, memory management is very important.  What can be done in the edram, and what absolutely needs to be stored there.  You would never want data in the edram that eats up valuable space when it really be stored in the main memory with no issue.  All this is true for the cache on the cpu as well.  So the even if the edram's bandwidth is 256GB/s, the actual memory performance when used corrected may only perform as well as a traditional memory setup that has 35-50 GB/s bandwidth. 

 

Like Shin'en said, everything matches up very well.  The GPU isnt memory bandwidth starved, but at the same time there isnt tons of extra memory bandwidth that does to waste because the GPU isnt powerful enough to process as much data as the memory can supply.  There is a reason that Sony didnt choose this memory setup for the PS4, and that was for ease of programming.  Its obvious that many developers are either not capable, or simply dont have the resources to take advantage of Wii U's unique architecture.  It is funny that even Sony aknowledges that from an outright performance standpoint, the edram with slower main memory can work very well, but its not as easy to program for, and thats why they chose to go with high bandwidth main memory.   

Keep in mind that when they develop their games they should know what assets are coming when, and prepare to manage the EDRAM accordingly.  That's why Shin 'en said that devs need to work to maximize performance, because the potential is there for a very high theoretical bandwidth, but it has to be managed, and devs can't be caught sleeping at the wheel.

 

We also know that developers aren't being limited to the bandwidth of the main memory pool, either.  Somehow they are getting good bandwidth but haven't really said how much or how they are getting it.

You aren't an authority in game development, the developers don't have to "prove" anything.  They just make the games for the platforms that the brass tells them to make the games for.  Don't expect any developer of publisher to come out and qualify the ridiculous presumption that for some reason they aren't going to take advantage of better hardware by making a statement about it.  They've talked about the next gen engine they are using, for each individual platform.  The Wii U version of the engine will be more capable than the 360 version of the engine, in all cases.

Like I said little over a month to go we shall see. I'm ready to buy the game if its a crappy port(on par with 360) then that money will go to Pikmin 3.

where does the guy in the video say that the WiiU texture bandwidth isn't slow ?
GDDR5 & GDDR3 are NOT the same, GDDR3 benefits from low latency at the expense of bandwidth, GDDR5's case is the opposite.
The other point is that the PS4 doesn't have eDRAM because it doesn't need it, the X1 uses eSRAM to boost the GDDR3.
PS4 system bandwidth - 176 GBs = 176
X1 - system bandwidth - 68.3GBs (eSRAM bandwidth 102GBs) =170.3
WiiU system bandwidth 12.8GBs (eDRAM bandwidth 70.4 GBs) = 83.2

Ha ha, guy, esram is way less dense than edram.

32Mb edram is going to have much, much higher bandwidth than 32Mb esram. The wii u's edram bandwidth is well into the triple digits.

You dont use sram for bandwidth, you use it for low latency.

Nice made up numbers for wii u though.

A console with NO 3rd party games is probably the stupidest idea I have ever heard of. And this is probably the biggest overreaction I have ever seen to EA not putting games on the Wii U.

Technically the indie games WOULD be third party.  He's referring to not closing them out completely, but making them compete on the exact same footing as indie game developers.  I don't quite see how it would work, but a very interesting idea indeed for what its worth.

Keep in mind that console exclusives will continue to sell over the system's lifecycle if it is a good product.  Even if they don't hit 700k instantly, they will eventually meet and surpass that.

I think ZombiU Had sales of 450k.

that's just the VGChartz numbers, doesn't include many retailers and doesn't include digital at all.  There was no quote, the author of the article made something up that seemed plausible to him and fit his narrative enough to get clicks.  His editor in chief is happy, the guy brought views to the site, and profit, journalistic integrity be damned.

So , is that bad? Good?

It renders the game at 720p, then upscales the image to 1080p.


Its not as good as native 1080p, but i doubt most people would be able to tell the difference.

It looks like they are selling 25k per week. If you do the math, I think they are around 4m units sold. They are projected to be at 6m for the whole year.  Xbone and PS4 will have similar launch numbers as Wii U.....

 

I'm hoping, HOPING, that Wii U can reach 5 - 6 million by November 18th (one full year for the Wii U), and I hope they sell 3 million more+ between then and 18th January 2014. I'm sure that the combination of Wind Waker, Mario 3D World, DK Tropical Freeze, Batman: Arkham Origins, Watch_Dogs, COD: Ghosts will draw in enough gamers, plus I'm hoping that a lot of soccer moms will be buying a Wii U not only for their kids but for Wii Fit U (yes I know, booo) because even if it's a large majority buying Wii U this christmas for a casual game like Wii Fit U, it'll boost the install base enough for publishers to release 3rd party games on the Wii U, thus in turn attracting core gamers and growing the core install base. 

 

But one can only dream. One thing they need to do is start advertising on public transport and TV. Parents aren't going to be watching Nintendo directs to know about the Wii U, They're going to need TV, newspapers, and public transport billboards. Words and phrases like "brand" "new" "console" are welcome.