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Posted by Starring: Bubblegum & Chrop
Featuring The Talents of: Sorceror12 & TheDoctor_13
Special Appearances By: Bill Chipher, Son Edo, and Your's Truly.
The curtains draw and reveal a battle torn landscape scarred by a great battle that has wagged for centuries. The only souls remaining are two soldiers of opposite sides. Their breathing is heavy as is their hearts, but they do not hesitate to grip their weapons and stare each other down before the final battle.
And then, it begins.
Bubblegum: May 23 2015 06:52 PM
It pains me so much to see Nintendo mucking up an IP with so much potential as Splatoon. They're making the /stupidest/ mistakes, and killing my excitement with this game over, and over. Also no, this doesn't have anything to do with the GTF.
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TheDoctor_13: May 23 2015 07:03 PM
Still don't understand your hate for it.
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Bubblegum: May 23 2015 07:38 PM
I didn't say I hated it. I'm disappointed. There's no voice chat, you can't keep your party together during matches, there are only 5 maps and 2 modes at launch for a MP focused game, for $50 to $60, no true splitscreen MP like what we play online, there are ads telling you to pre-purchase all over the demo, even for rewards that only last DURING the demo.
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Bubblegum: May 23 2015 07:39 PM
I think all of these things are quite understandable, as all of these missing features and missing content are things that other developers, even halfway decent ones, are capable of doing, yet Nintendo doesn't seem capable or willing to do so. It doesn't matter if more maps and modes are coming LATER for free. What we're paying for upfront, for this MP focused game, is 5 maps, and 2 modes
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Chrop: May 23 2015 08:42 PM
Think of it like we're paying for a beta version, where the gameplay is polished but it lacks content, Then the game actual game can be released AFTER all the free DLC has been put it. I should also point out that this game was literally made in 1 year and 2 months, It lacks content simply because it wasn't in development long enough. But they want people to play it now. I mean, sure they could have easily released it months later, but why not release it now? There's no disadvanta...
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Chrop: May 23 2015 08:44 PM
There's no disadvantage to not release it now, it means we can play splatoon earlier. If you want you can just force yourself to not buy it until all maps/gamemodes have came out, (Btw there will be 12 maps and 5 gamemodes after they've been released). Thus there won't be lack of content when you buy it.
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Bubblegum: May 23 2015 08:47 PM
That's the problem. We should not be paying for a beta. We should be paying for the complete product. It does not matter if more maps and modes are coming later for free. That isn't what we're paying for. They aren't part of the initial purchase. The initial purchase is very short on content, which is inexcusable.
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Bubblegum: May 23 2015 08:48 PM
They could very well delay the game, as they have done with plenty of others. The newest Zelda game was recently pushed back to 2016, and I don't doubt they could push Splatoon back a few months for this post-launch free content to be included in the final release. It doesn't matter that people want it now. You don't cave into demands like that when the game is short on content or not ready.
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Chrop: May 23 2015 08:48 PM
I should really proof-read my replies...
"The the actual game can be released", "There's no disadvantage to releasing it now"
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Bubblegum: May 23 2015 08:50 PM
There /is/ a disadvantage to releasing it now. The reviews will make it clear, if it wasn't already, that the game is short on content, despite it being polished. Reviews will be much more kind, people would be much happier with their purchase, if the game wasn't so short on content. They would be praising it even more. Saying it's /even more/ of a value than they might otherwise now.
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Bubblegum: May 23 2015 08:52 PM
Again, it doesn't matter if more maps and modes are coming for free after the game launches. Those are not what you are paying for. What you are paying for is 5 maps and 2 modes, and I'm sorry, but that is not worth 50 to 60 USD to me. Yes, there is a SP mode, but the main focus has always been on the MP, and to release a MP focused game with so little MP content is unacceptable.
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Chrop: May 23 2015 08:54 PM
You can't release a unfinished Zelda game, it's a story progression game, they'll get to the 5th dungeon and suddenly the game will be like "Nope, not out yet, you'll have to sit there and do nothing until it's released". With splatoon you can complete the game and enjoy it, Even CSGO has a system like splatoon, they release a game with some maps, then add some for later for free. Because the game can still be played without those extra 7 maps. Why is this even an...
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Chrop: May 23 2015 08:54 PM
Why is this even an argument? People who buy the game know what they're getting, 5 maps and 2 game modes. People who want more maps/gamemodes can literally just delay themselves of buying the game, and it'll just feel exactly like the game has been delayed, besides the fact that the people who still want to play it with only 5 maps can.
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Chrop: May 23 2015 08:58 PM
"it doesn't matter if more maps and modes are coming for free after the game launches"... Yes, Yes it does matter. Because that is EXACTLY What you're paying for, the free dlc is part of the investment you've made from buying the game. A lot of people wouldn't have bought the game if it was just 5 maps and 2 games modes, but they KNOW that there's more coming later on, You're paying for 5 maps now and 12 later on. They're paying the $50 to be able to p...
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Bubblegum: May 23 2015 08:58 PM
You should not release an incomplete or content-lacking game /period/. It doesn't matter if it's an existing IP or a brand new IP. It is unacceptable regardless. It's an issue because they're charging 50 to 60 dollars for a game that is seriously lacking in content. Yes, people can wait for the free content to release before they buy the game, but they are STILL buying a game with 5 Maps and 2 Modes.
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Chrop: May 23 2015 08:59 PM
to be able to play those extra 7 maps later. Also you're underestimating the Single player, there's reviewers out there who are already praising it, Nintendo are focusing on advertising the Multiplayer, but some reviewers think the Singler player is amazing. And it takes longer to complete than some Triple A single player games which cost $60.
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Bubblegum: May 23 2015 09:00 PM
Please read over this carefully and try to understand it. You are not buying the post-launch content. The post-launch content is not part of your purchase, even if you wait for it to release before you buy the game. When you buy Splatoon, you are paying for a MP focused game with only 5 maps and 2 modes.
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Bubblegum: May 23 2015 09:01 PM
The fact that people know what they will be getting if they buy it does not excuse Nintendo releasing a game for 50 to 60 USD with so little content to start. That is not okay, no matter how much you might try to justify it. If this were EA or Activision, then everyone would be up in arms over it, but because it is Splatoon and Nintendo, people seem much more willing to just "put up with it".
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Chrop: May 23 2015 09:01 PM
"people can wait for the free content to release before they buy the game, but they are STILL buying a game with 5 Maps and 2 Modes."... What? No they aren't... They buy the game, when they play it it'll go "Updating game", they update it and get 12 maps and 5 game modes. You can't even play the multiplayer without updating the game, you're forced to download the updates. Meaning they're FORCED to have more maps
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Bubblegum: May 23 2015 09:03 PM
Yes, they are. When you buy the game you are not also buying the free content released afterwards. The initial purchase does not include this content. It must be updated with content released /separately/ and /after/ the game's release. When you buy the game on launch especially, you are not getting that content, even if you must update the game.
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Chrop: May 23 2015 09:03 PM
No no, EA and Activision SELL 4-5 extra maps for a wopping 1/4 of the original price of the game, that's why people hate them. Compare that to Nitnendo who are giving away their DLC for free. They didn't have to, they could have easily charged people for it, but they didn't.
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Bubblegum: May 23 2015 09:04 PM
If I release a game with 1 map and 1 game mode, and later release a free update that adds 9 more maps and 5 more modes, is that update a part of the initial purchase? No, it is not. It is entirely separate. It is not content included within the initial purchase, therefore it is not part of the initial purchase.
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Chrop: May 23 2015 09:05 PM
"The post-launch content is not part of your purchase" This is where I'm COMPLETLY dissagreeing with you. The post launch content IS part of the purchase.
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Bubblegum: May 23 2015 09:06 PM
I am not talking about why people currently hate EA and Activsion. I'm talking about the hypothetical situation in which either of those released a game like Splatoon for a full 50 to 60 dollars, with the focus being on MP, but only included 5 maps and 2 modes. If they did this, people would be raising a storm over it, but because of this being Nintendo and Splatoon, people are more forgiving.
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Bubblegum: May 23 2015 09:06 PM
I am not talking about post-launch content. I am talking about the initial release.
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Chrop: May 23 2015 09:07 PM
"is that update a part of the initial purchase" If you told everyone before hand that you're releasing more maps later, then yes. Buying a game is an investment, you pay for something you expect certain things back. In splatoons case, you buy it so you can expect more maps/gamemodes to come out later. That's part of the deal you have made with the purchase of Splatoon.
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Bubblegum: May 23 2015 09:07 PM
No it is not. What you get on the game's disc (or in the game's files if you purchase digitally) is what you are getting when you purchase it. Anything that comes afterwards is not part of that initial purchase.
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Chrop: May 23 2015 09:11 PM
We're at a standstill. We've come to a point in the argument where your opinion is the exact opposite of mine. It's simple, you think this is wrong and shouldn't happen. Whereas I think it's fine and I'm ok with it happening. There's really nothing more too add.
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Bubblegum: May 23 2015 09:13 PM
I don't think it's alright because they're releasing a game for $50 to $60 dollars and yet it has very little content for such a steep asking price. That is not cheap. Were this game $20 to $30 then that would be one thing, but it is not. No one would be defending EA or Activision if they released a game with so little content for such a big price, but I see so many people giving Nintendo a pass.
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Bubblegum: May 23 2015 09:18 PM
Whatever post-launch content they release, free or not, is irrelevant. Said content is not part of the game you are making the initial purchase on. Only the content on the disc, or in the bundle of files if buying digitally, are a part of this. I just dislike seeing companies ask so much from their consumers, while offering so little for their prices. I treat every company equally in this regard.
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Chrop: May 23 2015 09:27 PM
$40 here, http://www.thegameco...oon-wii-u.html
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Bubblegum: May 23 2015 09:34 PM
$40 is still asking too much, to me.
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Bubblegum: May 23 2015 09:36 PM
If it had at least 10 maps and 4 game modes at launch, then a $40 price tag would be fine, but compared to a plethora of online MP games, it's severely lacking. One game that immediately comes to mind is Halo: Reach, which not only had at least 10 maps at launch, but it also included a wide assortment of game modes, /and/ it included an insane amount of gamemode customisation, which Splatoon /also/ doesn't have.
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Bubblegum: May 23 2015 09:38 PM
I'm not disappointed because I want to be. I don't want this game to do poorly. I was incredibly excited for it when I saw the art style and gameplay. This was one of the games that I wanted a Wii U for. However, I can't look past the numerous issues that this game has so far. Issues that I, and many, many other people have pointed out quite clearly.
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Bubblegum: May 23 2015 09:41 PM
The reason I'm complaining about what I believe to be huge problems is because I see the potential this game has, and I want it to meet that potential. It would be quite easy for Nintendo to fix the issues I and many other people have, but they don't seem interested in doing so. It certainly doesn't help that they plaster the demo with "Pre-purchase now" and the servers are having this much trouble this close to launch.
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Sorceror12: May 23 2015 11:12 PM
gosh, you know guys we do have forum topics for discussions like this LOL.
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TheDoctor_13: May 23 2015 11:43 PM
This is more redudant than a FB troll comment thread, lol.
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Bubblegum: Yesterday, 12:05 AM
Sowwu. :3
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Best Person On The Forums ;): Yesterday, 12:06 AM
Should just remove the boards. Take the Status update section make it bigger and center it on the page.
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Sorceror12: Yesterday, 12:11 AM
I think that is a great idea!
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Sorceror12: Yesterday, 12:12 AM
It will be like facebook, and twitter combined... just no character limit!
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Bubblegum: Yesterday, 12:34 AM
Get on it ASAP!
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Bill Cipher: Yesterday, 02:59 AM
Not to be a jerk, but having the game get steady content in a stream after release isn't a bad thing. Hell, TF2 came out in 2007 and is still going strong because it's getting free content.
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Son Edo: Yesterday, 05:20 AM
Yeah why'd they have to release Paper Mario in Europe and Australia areas a week before it's release.
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Bubblegum: Yesterday, 09:26 PM
I'm not saying, Bill, that having a steady stream of content after release is a bad thing. That isn't at all what I've said. What I've said is that it's a bad thing they're selling a MP focused game for $50 to $60 with only 5 MP maps and 2 MP modes. Yes, it's good that the maps and modes coming later are free, but those aren't what you're paying for. Your money is getting you only 5 maps and 2 modes. That's ludicrous.
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Bubblegum: Yesterday, 09:28 PM
Especially considering the fact that Mario Kart 8 launched with 32 maps and 3 or 4 modes (3 if you don't count Mirror Mode, and 4 if you do). They don't even allow for high amounts of game mode customisation, either. There's also no voice chat support, which even if you don't care for it, should be there for those that do. You're more than capable of muting people you don't want to hear.
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Chrop: Yesterday, 09:31 PM
"still seem to be having connection issues." This is a terrible sentece, the reason they were having trouble is because 5 million + people were all trying to get online at the EXACT same time. Something that will never happen again in splatoon besides it's launch day.
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Bubblegum: Yesterday, 09:34 PM
This was happening for a /lot/, if not /most/ people. That no one could seem to connect, and that even when players /could/ connect they couldn't find games or had players suddenly dropping out of the lobby is not a good sign.
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Chrop: Yesterday, 09:36 PM
Mario Kart maps are a ton easier to make, since you can literally draw a linear line on paper and go "Ta-Da" New track, then you add some textures and objects on the sides of the tracks, add music and you've got a level. With Splatoon there's so much detail that needs to be put into each map since it's a competitive game, 1 team can't have an advantage and there shouldn't be anywhere on tha map which allows for an easy victory. It has to be tested and tested over a...
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Chrop: Yesterday, 09:37 PM
It has to be tested and tested over and over so the game is fair. Mario kart 8 doesn't care, Mario Kart 8 blue shells you.Splatoon is competitive, it needs to not have unfair maps. It needs to be as balanced as possible. That 1 Op spot at the top of the map could ruin the entirety of the map
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Bubblegum: Yesterday, 09:40 PM
No, I'm afraid it's not quite so simple to make a good racing track, and putting in the effort to not only make your track look nice, but /play/ nice is just as much a challenge as it is in Splatoon. Your oversimplification could easily be applied to Splatoon's levels. "Make a few box rooms with some crates and foam things here and there, some bridges to connect them, and make them white."
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Bubblegum: Yesterday, 09:43 PM
Racing tracks too must be tested over and over. They need to flow well. Every obstacle, every ramp, every branching path needs to be placed in such a way that they work seamlessly with one another. You don't want one placed too close to another, and you don't want too many. You need to make sure that the distance between a ramp and the landing platform are placed the right distance apart, or players will be unable to make the jump, or
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Bubblegum: Yesterday, 09:45 PM
the jump won't serve any purpose. Just drawing an oval or a straight line does not make for an engaging racing experience. It's also not as simple as "Throwing some textures and objects on the side of the tracks." The track needs to have a theme, and everything within the track, visually and gameplaywise, needs to mesh together. There's also creating and programming all of the assets put into it. So it's a lot of hard work.
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Bubblegum: Yesterday, 09:46 PM
And your line about balance also applies to Mario Kart's maps. You don't want any detour or any launch pad or speed boost placed in the wrong place that it allows players to gain too wide an advantage, and likewise you don't want these placed too close to one another, or too frequently, that it makes traversing the map in other ways pointless.
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Chrop: Yesterday, 10:06 PM
Your last comment then, Mario Kart is completly wrong. Hense why thwomp can crush the people in 5th but not in 1st, simply because the thwomp is on a timer that doesn't care who's in what place. Or speed boosts that only pop up every 5 seconds or so, or those bolders that fall at that exact time you needed it not to fall just so you can progress through the map smoothly. Yet no bolders pop up for the guy who's in first place.
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Chrop: Yesterday, 10:10 PM
Also let me compare the maps to CSGO (another competitive game), some maps have been completly removed from the map pools because a few spots have made the entire map unfair for 1 side of the team, or whichever team reaches that part, for example, leaving a corridor which leads to a place where the enemy can see you from several places, that doens't make a competitive map, that leaves the game up to chance, Is he going to be on the roof, or will he be near the boxes, I can only see 1 thin...
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Chrop: Yesterday, 10:18 PM
I can only see 1 thing at a time, so If I look up and he's at the box, he kills me, It's random, not competitive, not fair. You NEED to think about these things when creating competitive maps. Also jumps in mario kart are pretty easy, Make a jump, test it to see where the karts should land, and then carry on the track from the point you want the car to land at. And the maps having "themes" and visual appearance is all cosmetic, Mario's stadium could have easily been lugi...
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Chrop: Yesterday, 10:19 PM
luigi's curcit, or electic dome could have been bowsers castle. It doesn't change the actual course itself. It's got nothing to do with the balance of the track.
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Bubblegum: Yesterday, 10:27 PM
I never said that the aesthetics have to do with balancing the track. You made a remark about how you can just toss in some textures and objects, but you fail to understand that these too need to be created with a lot of time and effort, and also need to have their own programming attached to them. I am not debating that it's difficult to balance a competitive map, but what I am saying is that creating a map in Mario Kart, a well designed, engaging, and balanced track, is not as simple as...
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Bubblegum: Yesterday, 10:30 PM
You need to design a track that is interesting not only to look at, but one that is interesting to play. If you, for example, place a turn at one point, you need to take into consideration what came before it, how wide is the curve, and what are the racers going to encounter when they come out of it. Is it too sharp, causing most players to miss it? Is it too wide, making the entire thing pointless?
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Bubblegum: Yesterday, 10:32 PM
Players need to be made aware that the curve is coming up, and when coming out of it you need to give players just enough time to react to what's coming up next, whether it be another curve, an obstacle, a jump, or what have you. Shortcuts are another thing. These need to be balanced so that they give a player just enough of a slight advantage that they have a chance at taking a higher spot, but not so large an advantage
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Bubblegum: Yesterday, 10:34 PM
that the other racers have too difficult a time catching up. It shouldn't be so small advantage that players might as well not take it, either. I could go on. Suffice it to say that designing a great track, one that's both visually pleasing and engaging for players to race in, is not as simple as "Make a straight line or a circle and add some textures and obstacles."
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Chrop: Yesterday, 10:35 PM
Simply make a curve, test it, does the curve work? good, leave it, does it fail? change it until it works. That's all that goes into a track. Does it work and is it fun to play. It has nothing to do with balancing for fairness. That's why there's 32 tracks in the game. 16 of which have already been created and they just needed to add a few things to it and update the visuals.
Let me ask, do you even play competitive games? And which ones?
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Bubblegum: Yesterday, 10:37 PM
That's not all that goes into a track. You, again, are oversimplifying things in order to benefit your side of the argument. Yes, I do play competitive games. As I have already said, I am not disagreeing that it also requires a lot of effort to create a competitive map for a competitive game. DOOM, Quake, Unreal Tournament, Halo, to name a few.
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Chrop: Yesterday, 10:39 PM
Shortcuts is just a line though the original track which makes the track shorter. It doesn't take long to go "There's a curve there, we should but a shortcut near the end of the U turn". If the shortcut gives too much of an advantage, make the shortcut shorter. Again, you just test it and see how much of an advantage it gives
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Bubblegum: Yesterday, 10:43 PM
Yes, you test it, just as you would test something in a map for a shooter. However, it's not as simple as "Let's put a shortcut here". It needs to provide just slight enough of an advantage to let players pull ahead if they take it just right, and it needs to be placed in a location that makes sense. Putting shortcuts willy nilly on a track doesn't work.
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Bubblegum: Yesterday, 10:44 PM
The point is, creating a great map in Mario Kart is not as simple as your initial post claimed it was. It does take quite a lot of effort. Regardless of whether or not it takes as much as a shooter's map is another discussion entirely. It still doesn't excuse Nintendo only including 5 maps and 2 modes for a $50 to $60 dollar, MP focused, game. It doesn't, no matter how much you want it to.
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Bubblegum: Yesterday, 10:49 PM
Look at Halo: Combat Evolved. The original Xbox game shipped with 13 maps and 5 game modes. That was in 2001, and the MP for that game was created not long before the game needed to go Gold and get ready for shipment. Tell me how it is alright, in 2015, for Nintendo to release a MP focused game with only 5 maps and 2 modes for $50 to $60 dollars.
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Sorceror12: Yesterday, 11:12 PM
this status is ridiculous
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TheDoctor_13: Yesterday, 11:22 PM
^ If I could like a status reply, I would.
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The curtains close but it's not the end, not yet. There is still more to come, a far more dire battle is approaching on the horizon.
- Bill Cipher, tboss, MatrixChicken and 3 others like this
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