The original Oot was limited by the capabilities of the system. Have you played the 3D version? it's a bit better, but it is still able to keep the ambiance.

The original Oot was limited by the capabilities of the system. Have you played the 3D version? it's a bit better, but it is still able to keep the ambiance.

Actually I was going to bring up the 3ds version instead of TP, as it pretty much completely discarded the n64's blah style....

Everywhere except the inside of the temple of time, which is still just grey brick.



blah.

Whatever. Going to disagree with you and move on before this turns into a CAPS and the words straw appear.

Nah man, dont worry about it, Im just rambling Zelda.
I was just listing the fundamental design changes in each series, Im not really responding to your phase theory, as much as just responding to individual games, because its just too fuzzy to me. Im also thrown off a bit at the line drawn at the series starting with Oot... I have trouble not looking at the series as a whole.

Ill try though, so let me see if Im getting this right.

First You explain that a reboot is all about starting over with series canon, but then state that this isnt that kind of reboot. I get that, though I dont think I really see it the same way. Reboots are all about starting the story line over to me, and as such are mostly arbitrary, cosmetic, and ultimately rather inconsequential to me, beyond modernizing the story. And really, the story in Zelda games really doesnt add up to more than 2 poots for me. In fact, story by its actual definition is actually the enemy of good Zelda design, as a story is a specific sequence of events. When people talk about story, they really mean the combination of story, plot, and characterization/character dialogue. Something that truly needs to be deconstructed and examined to find a suitable use for videogames, as the traditional conventions of what makes for good stories for written books, varies vastly from the combination that makes for a good movie, and both vary vastly from the combination that would make a good fit for a videogame. Although... I guess I just rambled all this for nothing, as story isnt involved in this style reboot you are talking about.

So you state that phase 1 is albw's, but I just dont see the games design as anything other than a gimmick. Yeah, it lets you go in any order you want but.... 'not like this' gif. I dont see it as any different than any of the other changes to progress design expiriments of any of the other changes, like switching from a tile based overworld to a hub based overworld, where you still had a lot of freedom to enact your agency of the designers intent. The only difference is this time, its part of the game design, and its so loose it feels like a really hollow victory. But I guess I can see it as like, prototype stepping stone? Though I just dont see it being much use to Zelda U in that regaurd.

Then phase 2 is... hyrule warriors I think? Or were you talking about something else then used hyrule warriors as another example? I dont know. I dont really see hyrule warriors as that much different than crossbow training in relation to being a zelda game as far as the Zelda franchise series goes (***EDIT***** OOOOHHHHHH You were talking about crossbow training as the plastic peripheal gimmick thing right?). Its a fun action spin off, but its not even trying to be a zelda game. The four swords multiplayer games fit into this mold as well, so I cant really think of it as this new phase for transforming/rebooting the series... As again, the series seems like its always transforming at a fundamental level, beneath the 'Zelda formula' layer, and action oriented spin offs are nothing new.

And phase 3 is Zelda u. Which is a return to open world Zelda, like the first tile based games and games based on the tile based system (though this is not applied to all overhead zeldas, the gba ones onward were tile based and overhead, but the overworld was incredibly streamlined), and later different games attempted to emulate in different ways (Zelda 2 not to scale overwirld/map world, along with phantom hourglass and spirit tracks), or overly compromised ways like wind waker, or the hub designs of oot and tp, or inverted hubs of mm or ss.

To me I dont see a Re-boot, although I dont feel we know enough about the story to tell if its a 'reboot' reboot. I just see a long time coming realization of potential. A Zelda that is finally free from having to use overly huge scale tricks like extreme distance/time compression foreshortening (seperate paths and tunnels, seperated by screens used to foreshorten time and distance) to present what is supposed to be a huge world, without it being an empty ocean.


Although, I think, if I remove all the Zeldas before the use of the hub world designs, I began to get an idea of the picture you are talking about.

I guess I just dont see it as a mechanical( not story or lore) reboot, because I see it as 'This is what we always really wanted Zelda to be, but just couldnt practically do with the technology/experience of the time'. As such, since this is what they have always been striving for, but always been reduced to faking it, thus I dont see it as a reboot of mechanics, or conventions.


Summary of rambling time:
I feel that Zelda U is the result of the combination of hardware power, and Monolithsoft's open world experience being brought over with their involvement of the zelda titles, allowing the team to finally do what theyve always wanted but have been unable to.

I dont see the 3ds game being a part of that, because its stuck with the hardware constraints of trying to fake the open world experience.

I dont see hyrule warriors (? Im still not sure if I got this right, if this is what you were referring too) as part of it, as its not trying to be a Zelda game.


I guess what Im saying, is I just dont see it as a reboot, phases or no, but I also dont really feel I have a clear picture of what you personally consider a reboot in this regaurd, so maybe Im not even responding correctly to what you were talking about.

Or maybe what you feel is a reboot, and I feel is the realization of potential via hardware power and personell experience finally matching the ambition of Zelda is one and the same.

Regaurdless, I still want to talk Zelda.

I would not say constantly rebooting. As sure they added some new mechanic or setting but they kept the same conventions since OoT. That's just the kinda thing you expect in order to keep making new games. Just it was hitting that point it was getting harder and harder to just make a new game.
 
That's what I meant on LBW is you can actually explore again. Nintendo just seemed hesitant to break away the core conventions since OoT. Nintendo has fully breathed new life into the series in Three distinct phases. Not talking a tech demo for a periph or needing to own cabled and Game Boy Advances as a expensive gimmick. They fully gave the series a breath of fresh air and Link didn't need to turn M rated with a Cigar or Motorcycle named Epona or just erase the past and remake the series.
 
Not that limited to Zelda either as Mario Kart Wii and 7 sorta phoned it in. MK8 was to me the first time they truly tried with the series since Double Dash. Also sure Galaxy is loved but since Mario 64 every game has been an extension of that game. While 3D Land/World mixed old and newer ideas to create something a little different than we been getting since Nintendo 64 and I mean the main series. They have made more subtle changes in those 2 games conventions with new entries but Zelda they really went out in Three ways.

You keep emphasizing the 3 phase thing, but havent really detailed it, so I cant really respond to it.

Oot was a reboot mechanically, adjusting the series to 3d, ditching the tiled overworld for a central hub system in hyrule field.

majoras mask was an inverted hub, with the town being the main hub instead of hyrule field.

Windwaker ditched the hub system for a completely open world with the great sea... but technical limitations of the time meant the only way it could be done was well... the great sea,a whole lot of nothing sprinkled with islands.

The ds games ditched the overworld of both hub and open styles, and went back to a seperate not to scale map a la zelda 2, except on rails.

Twilight princess returned to the hub system, except was a slight evolution of multiple hyrule field hubs... With pretty much nothing in them.

Skyward sword returned to the inverted hub system, with the skyloft town being the hub to the seperated overworld.

albw was an emulation of the tile based overworlds.

Zelda U appears to at last be a non compromised open world, akin to what the game has been trying to represent since its inception.A feat that no doubt has something to do with monolithsofts breakthroughs in openworld design alongside involvement of one of their studios with zelda.

Zelda's constantly being rebooted....


Im pretty convinced it was the wii's hardware limitations and trying to fit skyward swords ambition within those limitations is what resulted in skyward sword being... skyward sword on the exploration adventure front, not remotely referring to motion plus, as the motion plus implementation was absolutely fantastic, and merely highlights a generation of wasted potential, polish and improvement on real motion controls instead of waggle crap.

A link between words is not... going back to the basics. Being blatantly given every item in the game for chump change, and then having billboards advertising what item you need to explore an area changes the face of the game dramatically, in particualr the exploration part of the game, its almost the same as not bothering with items at all. On the plus side, you actually get to discover dungeons again, instead of 'riding the railroad track', but at the expense of the other half of the equation that made zelda (and metroid) great.

Its the complete antithesis of the specific tight design of the earlier zelda's. You werent SUPPOSED to do the dungeons out of order, but players could defeat the intent of the designer should they possess the skill (even if they didnt know they were doing it) in the original nes zelda, dungeons didnt really rely onitems very much, with few exceptions (like the raft), but the overworld made heavy use of items for progression design, and with exploration adventure games of this specific design, getting an item out of order, changes the face of the game drastically, that cant be accomplished with albw's give you everything in one small shack design model. This is what has been cut out of Zelda (and metroid) by the increasingly more and more effective qa and testing of modern game qa. Now (not inlcuding albw's) the proper path is not only near the only possible path, but has neon signs and metaphorical railroad tracks you have to ride.

What really needs to be done, is finding that sweet spot between player agency, designer intent, and qa again.

Oot style Zeldas miss the mark by going too far extreme left, while albw's misses it by going too far to the extreme right.

So far I take Aunoma talking about freedom to explore, ie player agency, without mentioning giving up on progression design (having all items available to the player at once) to be a positive sign that they are zeroing in on that sweet spot in the middle.

Oh, I get it, what ys has done for you.

For a second I thought something went horribly horribly wrong and you were done with the series.

Miss Understanding, on 19 Jun 2014 - 9:17 PM, said:
To this day I've never understood "x is better" when it comes to promoting music. Don't you people notice that the best promotional strategy would be to use all of the services available? You don't have to limit yourself to a single one.

Thats pretty astute.

Castlevania: Order of Ecclesia is pretty great. Probably one of my favorite games on DS. I would also recommend 999, Bowser's inside story, and Shin Megami Tensei: Strange World. 

Oh yeah. Any of the castlevania games that let you earn new abilities and moves from enemies is great fun. Always keeps you interested with new things to try out and do.

Hotel Dusk, Ghost trick...

World ends with you...

viewtiful joe double trouble

C.O.P the recruit.

Super circuit, mkds, mk7, and mk8.

 

Dont know why, just always liked the portables better. Until 8. 8's pretty damn hard to top to me.

This is the guy behind the luminous engine, which is getting scrapped for unreal engine 4....

He was aquired from Sega, for a considerable amount of money, and found squeenix so fracked up and abusive, he just had to leave.

I understand...yet it is hypocrite.

Well, thats what happens when you have stupid people targeting Nintendo for frivolous lawsuits like 'My child was attacked by an online predator via pictochat on ds!!!!!'* BECAUSE of that family image, and places like fox and abc news running with it full speed with not a single attempt at fact checking.

* (Pictochat DS was non online capable.)

This is a reaction to things people have done.

I had trouble with WiiFit U. In that game everybody can create a Gym Community and ask friends to join that community. The community is tagged with a Community number. It's in exactly the same format as the friends numbers. So, when communicating your gym on Miiverse, you get banned. 
 
My question is:
If the reason for Nintendo's strict ruling is the protection of children, and keeping Miiverse a safe place....why do they promote kids (and all other users) to communicate their friends and community codes via extern media. Forums are much darker places on the internet. I'd rather see my kids using miiverse (including code-communication) then my kids traveling to a place like WiiUforums with its diverse user group.

Because Nintendo isnt legally accountable for what happens on the outside.

All I know about this is its tearing through Japan epically. Will have to look into it.

Its like hes trying to tell me something...

 

Hes talking about seamless streaming and online integration. I wonder if hell go more in depth with talking about the seamless streaming.

Yeah....I kinda hope they ease off the tons and tons of teeny tiny quests in exchange for less yet more involved side quests.

I dont. The way Xenoblade handled sidequests was brilliant. I think most people didnt understand that you WERENT supposed to obsessively try to complete EVERY sidequest.

There were about 14 big, very in depth, very involved sidequests for fleshing out characterization, which, in xenoblade, character development is literally a huge powerup. Then there were about another dozen or so for each characters ultimate gear, and characters ultra moves, each sidequest was composed of a number of interlocking side missions.


The rest of the 400 were just volume to make sure the player never got 'affinity screwed', even if they didnt explore every nook and cranny and find every npc, or save every npc who might die.

You literally only need to simply load up on quests, and do whatever you want, and the quests you complete doing your own thing, (Exploring etc) will be ample enough to raise affinity enough to do the main give you awesome stuff like powers moves ultimates rebuild colony etc. quests.

You arent supposed to obsessively hack out a list of inane fetch subquests to completion, there are so many of them SPECIFICALLY so you DONT have to do that.

Ive done about 2 replays of blade, and I 100% every character without quest grinding at all. I just do my own thing and I wind up completing more than enough 'no name' quests effortlessly.

I want Square to battle Soft by making a XenoGears remake.

PPPPffffttttt..... HA HA HA!!!!

Monolithsoft IS golden age square soft. The people who made chrono trigger, ff6, xenogears, all left square to make stuff that wasnt ruined by idiots in suits telling them how to change the game they are making to please marketing, and the largest majority of them went to monolithsoft.

Squeenix cant challenge monolith soft, because the people who made the square soft game you brought up, ARE monolith soft.

Thats why they CALLED themselves MONOLITH soft. A monolith (a la 2001) is a massive six sided structure with all right angles. A rectangular or SQUARE prism.



They ARE the REAL Squaresoft.

Its going to be massive.

Fair enough, but they could at least give some sort of indication as to what the BIG quests are and which ones can be skipped. It doesn't help that you have to find the specific quest givers around some pretty gigantic towns/cities who just so happen to be time sensitive as to when they will appear. 


 
Makes me wonder why Nintendo doesn't try to buy out Mistwalker.

Yeah, Xenoblade is like Majoras mask on steroids in that regaurd. Honestly, I always play with my smart phone in hands reach and the xenoblade wiki ready to go in case i cant find my quest giver in a timely manner. Also for remembering who trades what (why grind a bunch of monsters for rare loot when you can just trade).

Basically, if the quest giver has a name, and a spot on the affinity/relation chart, the mission is a part of a larger sidequest, with actual impact (at the very least, updating the relationship map, which can actually have pretty huge changes...)

Good stuff. Gamexplain also noted improvements in a video a month or two ago. they showed the tower and some other areas that had improved textures and higher detailed sections.

 

Yeah, I thought I remembered talking about that stuff in there, in here, disproving claims of downgrades if I recall.

 

I want this game so much.

Here is the vid I was referring to earlier. If anyone has not seen it, give it a look.

 

 

Oh, Hey, its Chuggaconroy. He most be frothing mad with excitement.

 

Honestly, Im surprised a lot of people seem to be missing a very obvious possibility.

 

And that would be finding OTHER colonies, er, Neo cities/countries (for the tiny countries).

Neo London, Neo Berlin, Neo Las Vegas (Please) Neo Tokyo, Neo Seoul, Neo Bulgeria (Pretty please, or at least Neo Sofia)

Take that Ubisoft.

 

They have. They have quickly decided making quality games upon release, targeted at people who wont buy garbage, is a waste of time and money, when there is a huge market of brainwashed morons who will buy anything they are told to be hyped for, the day they are told to buy it, regaurdless of whether it works or not.

I can answer their question on elmas eyes. Shes a cyborg. In the tree house vids back at e3 you can select the same kind of eyes elma has and they said are labeled cybernetic/cyborg.

Dynamic lighting and weather correct? There was debate on gaf *mostly from a troll it appeared* that the shadows were baked but you can clearly tell in the one shot of the streets how the shadow changes over the tall alien as he walks.
 
Also, how did they manage the grass detail over such a large world? Is it sprite based? and is this different then what Zelda U is doing for foliage/grass?

Yeah, you could tell the environment/sky light was dynamic since day 1, but its improved considerably in the latest build.

The grass looks similar to xenoblades system, which was a mix of several things, texture put over a single transparent triangle/quad with the value of the rotational axis set to always face the camera, along with some that were only done with the horizontal axis (so if you elevated the camera they would respond correctly to vertical foreshortening but the horizontal rotation would still face the camera) and modeled fauna. Intanced hundreds of times (many more for x).

Zeldas grass appears to be a fully modeled blade, with a decent amount of articulation points, most likely with models of decreasing complexity the further into the distance, independent of camera rotation, instanced thousands upon thousands of times, to fill the environment without the cpu choking on draw calls.

The amount of amazing in this game is too damn high!
 
Also, have the graphics had an upgrade? They look a bit better than they used to be.

Yeah, a pretty big one. Many placeholders have been replaced, near lod models for many assets have been added, many more assets period have been created, and the lod system has really been ironed out, functioning at proper distance sets instead of the randomness of the earlier build. A few bad pairings (a mid model rock is replaced by a near model rock, of blatantly different size and shape for example, but by and large a vast, vast improvement.

Still a lot of noticable work to do, heading into the final phase (mob collision detection, more near lod's like certain car and civilian models etc), but the fruits of monoliths hiring spree is already very apparent.

Looks like well finally get the uncompromised gears/saga game and story package neither squeenix nor namco ever let them make. And it will be amazing.

3Dude. have we heard anything about if this game has any sort of multiplayer co-op yet? I know that was speculated a while back.

see above post.

The e3 and direct didnt mention co op, or anything online, as they were very specifically reinforcing the fact the game would actually have a single player story mode as a result of the rash of morons claiming it was a monster hunter clone/multi only game.

What about the first trailer which had what appeared to be a text chat?

I was answeing under the context his question was phrased, which was 'has nintendo specifically confirmed, as in outright stated, online co-op.

I believe those early videos are indeed proof of co-op, however, nintendo has not officially come out and stated it, likely to quell fears about no/tacked on single player.

I think there will be a seperate online mode, using only created characters/generic npc's (no story characters, or they serve strictly npc roles in this mode), revolving around events and quests meant for multi.