I disagree. The games you mention as being crud are from being so. A lot of those games are great and even if you don't care about them a lot of Wii U owners do and those are exactly the kind of games the Wii U needs. The attitude of people like you happy with the first party and second party exclusives is certainly not a representative of the wider Wii U community any one who bought one certainly didn't make a mistake in doing so. They have every right to expect the same games that are being released on other consoles. Unfortunately with the state of the Wii U as it is today most third parties don't really have a financial incentive to release their games on the Wii U. A lot of this has to do with Nintendo not being aggressive enough or providing the type of game playing experience found on other consoles especially when it comes to the online structure and how people's online accounts are handled.

Great compared to what? The more of the conditioning i see in action the more I have to agree with Jonathan blow and jason rohrer.

The only people who thinks the majority of the product churned out by the aaa factory line can be considered good, nevermind great, either dont know any better, as the bulk of their gaming experience actually did take place in the seventh generation, or have been conditioned to stockholm syndrome.

We should be LIGHTYEARS past where aaa gaming is right now. Instead, were playing the exact same games for three generation straight.

Compared to what ive seen, the games ive played in their time, those games are mostly degenerative garbage falling far short of where they should be, when compared to what previous generations did in their time.

Its not that were happy with first and second party exclusives, its that we refuse to be a part of feeding the cancer thats destroying our hobby. Plus I really cant stomach 'playing' another game where all I really do is watch the computer automatically do everything i used to do, while I hold the stick in a general direction until i get to the next consecutive context sensitive area, where the game tells me to press a button while standing close to thing, and then i watch the character do something with thing, and then cutscene plays.

Its like the difference between going on a grand adventure, and being on a crappy amusement park ride depicting said adventure.

Its crap. Its all crap.

Tony the Talking Clock, on 26 May 2014 - 01:14 AM, said:
Or maybe, idk, they're just having fun with a game rather than demanding each game be an all new experience that demands the world of them. I wasn't aware that if somebody grew up on gaming pre-7th gen, they'd immediately find all current games garbage. I know that's certainly not the case for me. I'm more interested in having a good time with a game rather than demanding that every game challenge me in every aspect.

But feel free to continue bucking your high horse. I know your ego loves it.

Didnt you just take your drivers test?

Since you decided to take my quote out of context I will go ahead and add the context back in. Those were musings from roher/blow game design lectures, from back in 2007. I was simply observing and commenting on how every day I see more and more evidence tossed onto ever increasing piles giving heavier weight to the statements credence. Just like your post. Another to add to the pile.

I also very specifically stated the category of games I was talking about, which is a very, very far cry from your strawman of 'every single game'. Yes, I expect games with upwards of a billion dollars in their budget, Games that cost over half a hundred dollars to buy, to provide more value than mindless fun, dramatic presentations of non challenge, and grinding the treadmill.



There will always, ALWAYS be a place in videogames for the simple pleasure of having fun. When I was a kid it was the arcade. Today, its equivalent is very clearly visible in mobile games.


PC gaming/Home consoles came because there were those who knew that games could be, and wanted games to be, more than simple mindless fun.

If thats all you want, thats fine. So why do you keep acting like you have a hat in our ring?

Honestly... I dont even care.

I hear I just hope that E3 we get to see what they have been doing. I mean Nintendo has the talen, Money, and knowledge of this business to stomp Sony and Microsoft into the ground but they seem to just lack the motivation to go and make it happen. I mean the lack of Wii U marketing since it was release just I dont understand. So I am hyped but yet at the same time scared for E3. Nintendo just has this way of doing just enough to get by I hope E3 is not a let down of... here is Zelda U and a bunch of mini NFC party games that attempts to use the gamepad in an effective way.


 
I am not an RPG person we need more adventure/shooter games from Nintendo with there KNOWN nintendo QUALITY.

Pandoras tower isnt an rpg. Its an action adventure game. The last story is closer to an action adventure than an rpg as well. Only Sword/crossbow based game i can think of with a take cover system. Its use of real time tactical guerilla combat was actually surprisingly relatable to real life tactics.... Except with magic instead of guns/explosives.

Shame the multiplayer just went down. It was pretty beast.

Oh Wow.

Good stuff. Gamexplain also noted improvements in a video a month or two ago. they showed the tower and some other areas that had improved textures and higher detailed sections.

 

Yeah, I thought I remembered talking about that stuff in there, in here, disproving claims of downgrades if I recall.

 

I want this game so much.

Take that Ubisoft.

 

They have. They have quickly decided making quality games upon release, targeted at people who wont buy garbage, is a waste of time and money, when there is a huge market of brainwashed morons who will buy anything they are told to be hyped for, the day they are told to buy it, regaurdless of whether it works or not.

Here is the vid I was referring to earlier. If anyone has not seen it, give it a look.

 

 

Oh, Hey, its Chuggaconroy. He most be frothing mad with excitement.

 

Honestly, Im surprised a lot of people seem to be missing a very obvious possibility.

 

And that would be finding OTHER colonies, er, Neo cities/countries (for the tiny countries).

Neo London, Neo Berlin, Neo Las Vegas (Please) Neo Tokyo, Neo Seoul, Neo Bulgeria (Pretty please, or at least Neo Sofia)

A new luigis mansion? Sure. As long as it was ground up for wii u, and a bigger more engrossing adventure.

What's your point. That has no bearing on whether the game is going to be good or not. The fact that it has taken game play ideas from the Batman and Assassin's Creed games can only be a good thing as both series have produced quality games.

Um... Yeeeeaaaahhhh.... About that.... No.

This basically means yet another game where i can slap my nuts across the controller and watch as my character performs moves psuedo automatically.

The eshop occasionally has sales, which would explain the price differences. However, like most 1st party Nintendo games, it is highly unlikely a game like 3dworld would be reduced in price, digital OR retail.

 

Ever.

 

If it helps, you dont need a wii u to look at Retail or Eshops upcoming games, or available games and their current prices. Just go to nintendo.com, hit the games tab, and then select wii u games.

Makes sense, I dont think crytek even thought about split screen.

Boxart,

 

 

Excellent. Now I have a mental image to use to quick scan the shelves of the electronics section of every store I go to in case one of them breaks street date.

I just hope that this does not feel like generic adventure game in the style of Knack. I do hope it offers some compelling gameplay, and builds on the good found in Sonic's previous outings.

Somehow, I expect Uncharted with a Sonic mod to come from this. Throw in generic combat, and voila.

This is OG naughty dog staff wise. I would set your sensors more on Jak and daxter 1 and 2 rather than uncharted.

Looks more like a level 3-4 Open world adventure game, like Jak and Daxter... But with sonic.

So. How about that no kh3 or ffxv at e3....

I am so glad I dont care about these at all (I dont really collect merch, just games).

I feel so bad for the people who like collecting this stuff, I totally empathize, especially since these arent upposed to be rare out of print products, they are brand new! It shouldnt be like trying to pull teeth to buy a companies product.

Tony the Talking Clock, on 04 May 2014 - 11:20 PM, said:
Responses in bold.

Stop beating a dead horse and further dragging the thread off-topic.

Thats what you are desperately trying to do. Not me. Im just trying to get a very serious subject to the point where it can be discussed lucidly, instead of being dismissed in favour of remaining comfortably complacant in preconceived notions.

1. So... Why would I be specifically arguing only about the 'good use of acheivements'? Its pretty obvious Im specifically targeting the bad ones.. I also never said all rewards like acheivements were bad. That was a strawman of your own design. I responded because you said 'you didnt understand what some people have against acheivements'. Because you always disregaurd the subject without actually listening to what anyone says about it.

2. That would be because you are miles off course and dont listen to what is being said or the messages provided for you.

You are stuck on the end USER SIDE of acheivements. The trinket. Im telling you what PUBLISHERS, now lead by MARKETING SIDE CEO'S have been doing with them for the past 2/3rds of the last generation until now. That is the reason the vast majority of acheivements you have to admit to being silly/pointless. Its also part of the ever increasing reason the silly ones are so heavily outweighing the legitimate ones. You dont go to siggraph. You havent heard game design conferences switch themes from discussing 'dynamical meaning conflicting with authored stories in videogames', to 'managing backlash from cutting corners' and 'retaining virility in addicted whales'. Yes, yes it is impacting game design. No, it is not just acheivements, the blame cannot be placed entirely on acheivements. You should know nothing is so simple. Unfortunately, you always dismiss the subject with a strawman before it can ever get anywhere.

3. Except you see, I DID leave one hell of a whopping explanation. in fact, without watching it, you cant possibly begin to understand the context of where i am coming from.... And thats just a tiny glimpse into what i am talking about. Just the beginning. I do it on purpose to catch people in thinking traps. Because as long as people are content to be stuck in them, there is no reason whatsoever to waste time attempting to communicate with them before they snap out of it.

Just to let you know, the dissertations that I am going to be bringing up all come from game conference design lectures, and College game design lectures. If you dont want to put the effort forth required to think about these subjects on the proper level, and rather just leave things on the mental capacity of thoughtless one liners and animated gifs. Just let me know now.

I am actually interested in an example, as well.

Then you need to watch the video I provided,or at least find cliff notes for Jonathon Blows 'Dramatic presentation of non challenge'. Before we can even touch on the problems with the way acheivements are being used in contemporary game design, we need to understand how game design changed so rapidly to allow a concept as simple as an 'acheivement' to be abused so bad.

The xbox and playstation version of achievements and trophies are total joke material

"Congratulations, you turned on your xbox"

"Congratulations, you played a game."

If there are to be things called achievements, they should actually be things that you ACHIEVE.

Like beating a level within a certain time, etc.

There are currently some achievements that do that, but it's mixed.

And even better if those achievements provided some sort of reward for acquiring them. Other than just being there. On a screen.

Those fake substanceless rewards you dont like...

This is what designers today call 'The treadmill'.

Its no longer about whether you are smart or clever or skilled. Its about how much time you sink in. Walk the treadmill, and your acheivements are given to you. Just like everyone else.

There are two types of rewards/acheivements. One can be likened to food, it is healthy, nutritious, and naturally leads to higher quality of life/enjoyment. The other... Can be more likened to addictive drugs. It has no nutritional/game design value, and really only feeds off of a compulsive need to 'see what comes next'.

An easy way to seperate the two is to strip away the acheivements themselves. If a message didnt popup telling you you just acheived something would you still care? Would you even notice? If you DO notice, and feel satisfied and accomplished, even if you werent told you just did what you just did with a pop up. Its the positive good game design acheivement. Like say 100%ing sotc.

Past that, are your actions rewarded? Just like what you brought up, it used to be a prevalent thing. Not too long ago, and still today, in rare companies of strong game design integrity, accomplishing these things would actually give the player more game content.

Unfortunately, such strong game design requires time, and design skill. Two commodities publishers HATE spending. So more and more we see games designed with the 'drugs' in mind. Easier, faster, still makes money when marketed. And so the vast majority of games today are just walking the treadmill.

I wouldn't chase you over that. I agree, a vast multitude of achievements are silly/stupid. But I find it very, very hard to believe that putting achievements on a game somehow completely destroy any sense of personal/in-game achievement forever and always. I thought 100%ing Shadow of the Colossus was a great personal achievement. Same goes for completing all of the Time Trials on Mirror's Edge. Those past two things were actually quite hard, and, surprise, there were achievements for doing them. Whoops. Guess there's no challenge or even personal achievement made there cause I was rewarded for it with a digital score.

I'ma cri

Thats probably because you arent listening to what people are saying and instead making up flimsy strawmen to dismiss instead of considering what other people are actually saying, or bothering to listen to the examples they provide. Content instead to remain completely ignorant and reply with out of context nonsensical 'answers' that you dont understand have nothing to do with what you attempted to reply to. Instead, you continually fall victim to the same thinking traps over and over.

For example this response

'So achievements keep me buying crappy games? Uh...no. No, they really don't. They don't keep me playing crappy games either.'

is completely nonsensical and unrelated to what you were responding too..... You have no clue what you are trying to argue against, or even who or what the subject of the argument is. (You assume its you... Its not.)

It was hyperbole, though I can't expect you to understand that.
And since you insist on childishly using ad hominem, I won't even discuss this with you anymore.

I specifically stated that the use of hyperbole would be one of the ways of admitting you werent participating in this discussion, and to not have your opinion taken as worthwhile. it was literally the post before you did precisely that, and likely the very reason you in fact, DID do precisely that. So, nice try. Not really. Kids and consequences....

I also suspect that, Like Shawn Spencer and Mexican standoff,you dont quite understand what an Ad Hominum is, short of regurgitating the words you read under its definition... You dont have a fundamental understanding, and so are erroneously using it inappropriately.

See, an Ad Hominum attack is an off topic attack criticizing unrelated aspects of an individuals character, like saying you are having unconsentual sex with blind quadripeligics, in order to undermine the value of an argument you may have here (you dont actually have one in this discussion yet).

Whereas I, have specifically cited your shortcomings as they specifically apply to the direct topic of discussion...

And by the way, you never did discuss anything. This discussion has not even started yet. Im still waiting to start. I cant start until someone, at least one person, demonstrates they have a fundamental understanding of at the very least, the first concept on the road to this discussion, so I know Im not just wasting my time.

This whole waste of time has been you uncomfortably dancing around the need to invest time and effort into understanding something. Which you decided not to do.

Its more likely you simply CANT discuss this with me. Which is fine, I didnt expect much more from you.

Tony the Talking Clock, on 03 May 2014 - 10:55 AM, said:
Whatever you've deluded yourself into thinking, friend.

I wasn't aware that adding "points" to doing certain things in games removed any and all hope of ever achieving something again in video games for all eternity, slowly making us all brainwashed ignorants slowly marching towards our gaming doom.

If stupid people buy your diarrea crap as soon as it splatters on their plate, because theyve been convinced by media and marketing that its 'AAA', why would you bother actually making a gourmet meal for anyone?

You should hear some some lectures about game design, like say Jonathon Blows 'Fundamental conflicts in contemporary game design' particularly the part on 'dramatic presentations of non challenge'.

Maybe youll find you deserve better than people defecating all over your face and laughing at you behind your back for being what their marketing department calls 'a whale that will keep buying our product no matter what as long as we tell them its good'.

Tony the Talking Clock, on 01 May 2014 - 6:42 PM, said:
I like how angry and opposed people are to Nintendo adding an optional system that a lot of people enjoy...even going so far as to insult the people who do enjoy it, even.

I do like how Nintendo has implemented achievements in their games so far, though. Unlocking new stuff in Smash Bros Brawl or unlocking new concept art in Prime 3.

Because those 'optional things' just happen to directly coincide with the mass atrophy of game design and the removal of REAL acheivments, in place of bs that does nothing, adds nothing, but takes away from competent game design, as if ALL of us were too stupid to notice the difference between say, finding the magic cape in zelda despite it not being part of the path to beat the game, and getting an 'acheivment' for crapping your pants in the forest 20 times.

By whom? You?
What makes you think I care if you tell me my opinion is worthless? I, scratch that, we all have as much right to state our opinions on here as you, so before you start getting all high and mighty with your quest to get rid of achievements, maybe you should calm down and stop using insults and ad hominem in arguments. It really only makes you look immature.

Oh, the argument has not started. And no, you chose to discard the value of your opinion on this subject. Not I. And if you didnt care, you wouldnt be getting so pissy right now.... Like I said, its not about ME getting mad. If anything, it will just be more dissapointment at the younger generation failing to meet potential, because they lack the willpower to put forth the effort. Not really a mad thing, more of a sad thing.

And its probably for the best anyways, as with this post: 'your quest to get rid of achievements' you have demonstrated you fundamentally dont understand even what this argument is going to be about.

You cant get rid of acheivements, its impossible. The very nature of interactivity secures their place, its literally the defining difference between videogames and other forms of expression like cinema or literature.. They existed LOOONG before the faux reward system implemented in ps360 were a thing.

SteventheSlayer, on 05 May 2014 - 01:27 AM, said:
Probably gonna get mad at me for this, but

Its not about ME getting mad, When i specifically asked Tony, if he seriously wanted to get into what is really going on here, to understand things people were talking about that they couldnt see on the same level, or if he wanted to purposefully continue to ignore what other people were saying and use one liners and stupid pictures to avoid a sophisticated discussion, that was an open invitation to anyone else as well. Its so I know whether or not that person is a waste of time.
You have made your choice, of your own agency. Dont YOU get mad, when you try and chime in with stupid little one liners and pictures, and your opinion is discarded as 100% worthless. You chose that.