Actually, it has been confirmed.

It hasn't been confirmed merely that the original concept behind the Wii U is one controller per console, but they are looking into the possibilities of using two. We really don't know if the current Wii U build can play two utablet controllers, but since they are looking into ideas regarding using two controllers its likely it is on paper at least possible.

All of the wii controllers and the gamecube controller will be able to be used. As for games, they might put gamecube games on virtual consoles or the store.they will have for sure, wii games.

GameCube controllers are out a long with GameCube backwards compatibility. The Wii U is merely backwards compatible with Wii. This mostly is because the ports for GameCube controllers and memory cards has been removed.

Bandwidth is far more likely to be the reason behind the current two controller limit regarding the utablets depending on what technology Nintendo is using to stream video and content. It shouldn't be impossible to support four utablets if they upgrade Wii U's Bluetooth or other wireless technology. Eventually these controllers will start to hit the graphical abilities of the console, which may already be an issue past two controllers other than bandwidth simply based on the sort of uses Nintendo plans for these tablet controllers.

Well, Microsoft plans on using this rendering technique in their upcoming exclusives. In fact, this tech demo was derived from Peter Molyneux's Kinect project, Milo and Kate.

Then its likely that you won't see a whole lot done with this at least not on Xbox 360. They may be able to utilize this technique to a certain degree in real world situations, but something else has to take a hit to utilize it to any real effect. At this point developers don't have much left over processing power to throw into this rendering technique regarding Xbox 360 hardware.

Nintendo's making a profit of $150 off every 3DS sold (and who knows how much off the Wii, which is based on 2001 technology), so I think they might be able to subsidize their next console's costs a little.

Considering how much we can expect the cost of hardware to fall over the next year, I don't think Nintendo would actually have that much trouble making the console powerful enough to support two, if not four tablets, as well as the TV, without driving the cost up exorbitantly high.

This isn't actually true. Nintendo isn't actually making exactly 150 dollars off each 3DS sold. The pure manufacturing costs of the handheld is about 100 or 101 dollars, but other costs come into play. There's the retailers cut, shipping costs, ext that start cutting into that figure. Certainly they are making profit off each 3DS sold and quite a hefty sum at that, but not as much as many believe.

I'm of the opinion the primary reason behind Nintendo only looking into using two utablet controllers so far comes down to a bandwidth issue and not necessarily a CPU or GPU related issue. The technologies that would allow for video streaming to multiple wireless monitors is quite expensive. Not so expensive I don't think Nintendo could allow for four utablet controllers by upgrading its Bluetooth or other wireless technology before launch, but expensive enough that they may consider whether two utablet controllers are enough merely to marginalize costs. Then you have to realize that Nintendo only recently got early developer kits out to the majority of developers within the last month. If the 3DS is anything to go by major changes will occur to the Wii U in response to 3D party developer reactions regarding these early dev kits all of which represents added cost to Nintendo. With 3D party development heavily focused primarily on online multiplayer and the rare co-op whether the number of supported utablets increases depends on if Nintendo is interested in the concept to be honest.

I'm sure it could but it would have to be with low settings, lol.



I was impressed with the background but something about the bird just seemed off...idk what it is.

Anyways, that was a tech demo, not representative of graphics during actual gameplay.

Remember the Quantic Dream's tech demo for the PS3 that had everyone's jaws dropping to the floor? Well it took Quantic Dreams 4 years to actually to be able to make a game with those visuals (Heavy Rain) and even then it wasn't on par with that original tech demo...and to even get close to it, the entire game had to be done in QT events.

Other than Heavy Rain, no game has even come close to what they showed off in that Tech Demo for the PS3 and we're well into the systems life cycle...if games were going to be able to do it, they'd have done it already.

It's entirely possible (if not likely) that it'll be the same for the Wii U with it's tech demo's.

Not that it would be a bad thing, it's still a MAJOR step up from the original Wii and short of people who made the massive mistake of actually buying into all the b/s pre-reveal hype no one expected a modern day graphical powerhouse from Nintendo.



I'm not against Nintendo, I love me some Zelda, Mario, DK and Kirby. I'm against people who try to irrationally overrate products or features of products.

You have to look at Nintendo's attitude regarding tech demos and general tech specs. Really the reason Nintendo stopped releasing technical specs regarding its systems is what happened with GameCube. Sony and Microsoft give the media fluffed specs regarding their consoles, which simply wasn't possible in a full game setting. Nintendo on the other hand were more honest and openly discussed the capabilities of the GameCube and the whole situation soured on them. This isn't Sony or Microsoft where consistently you can expect them to show case a tech demo simply not possible on the hardware in a game. Nintendo's tech demos for certain franchises for instance often end up not quite as impressive as the finished product and it wouldn't be like Nintendo to show case a demo that didn't represent what the console is truly capable of pulling off.

Speaking of tessellation, I just heard that the Xbox 360 will employ a rendering technique called "mega meshes" that will supposedly take advantage of the tessellation unit that I never knew the console had.

Here's a tech demo.

I'm not sure if this is anything to really be excited about. AMD's in hardware tessellation unit in the Radeon HD 4XXX series of GPU's wasn't very efficient. To do anything meaningful with the tessellation unit in the 4XXX series you practically needed the raw computing power of Radeon HD 4850x2 or 4870x2 both of which are practically a full generational leap from Xbox 360's Xeon. I don't see how a tessellation unit on the Xbox 360's Xeon would be any different. Notice how lifeless majority of that tech demo was for instance. This may be too taxing on the hardware for the Xbox 360 to utilize this in any meaningful way in games.

I don't think they are better than the ps3 or xbox, but I suppose it's equal to them. Now nintendo has a chance to redeem themselves from the wii. And actually compete.

The Wii U is significantly more powerful than either the PS3 or Xbox 360. Both tech demos show cased that fact simply how much more powerful is the question. Rumors before E3 pointed to a theoretical figure of something between 4x to possibly 6x the capability of Xbox 360 depending on how the rumored chipsets where customized. The only thing in doubt about the full capability of the console was whether it could be considered a full generational leap over current consoles. As a measuring stick going by those original rumors there isn't any reason with optimizing the code for a closed box system that majority of the more graphically impressive games that have recently come out for the PC could run on Wii U on their highest settings.

There's a rumor going on on NeoGAF saying that the WiiU's CPU is based on Watson's Power7 CPU. Although that doesn't mean that your WiiU could beat you in Jeopardy because Watson's a gigantic cluster with 2880 cores and 16 TB of RAM, it still means that the WiiU uses considerably newer tech than PS360. Let's hope the GPU will be good enough not to bottleneck the CPU.

This bit of information though is extremely interesting. Basically the only thing that can be taken from it is that Wii U's CPU is Power 7 based, but that means far more power than many expected. Depending on the number of cores, the clock speed, and exactly how the chip has been customized it could theoretically be a full generational leap over Xenon. Going by the AMD press release the GPU may be something from the Radeon HD 5xxx to 7xxx family of GPU's instead of the originally rumored 4XXX family of GPU's. Which would result in a better feature set, better performance with a lower TDP, and would benefit from AMD Eyefinity technology. The biggest issues I'm worried about regarding Wii U now is its total RAM.

My impression is that its graphics capabilities are not far beyond the current competition. That is probably plenty enough power anyway, but at the same time they don't want to reveal specs because people would judge the system on the fact that the specs are similar to five year old products, despite that you shouldn't.

We're rapidly approaching a threshold where graphics across the board are going to be impressive and they simply won't matter anymore. There will still be improvements, but they won't be defining systems like they were a decade ago, when everybody was debating what system had the best capabilities.

The industry in the modern era is about marketing, software, and services. Hardware matters more in form than raw tech specs.

What's most important about Wii U on the technical side is its architecture. Work on the system to an extent carries over from the current generation. Don't expect visuals of Wii games to get much better than you see in their first year. Developers already know how to achieve results with the hardware because they've worked on the Xbox 360 for years. Of course they aren't identical, but they're going to find all the ins/out/tricks a lot faster this time.

Your impression is quite off then. Both demos to some degree showcased effects simply impossible to replicate with current generation consoles. That's without mentioning that both demos where running at 1080p native resolution in real time while pulling off Global Illumination, high quality textures, and ext. Literally only a few PC games on their highest settings can do some of the things being done in both demos. The more impressive demo the Japanese Garden Demo is specifically stated as being based on an older version of the hardware and Zelda tech demos always are worse than the final product. Their choice regarding the demos perhaps wasn't the best. It would of helped get the capabilities of the console around to specific crowds of individuals if one demo had been a realistic urban setting (a FPS ext). We've more or less already meet the threshold where most individuals have a hard time telling several of the current improvements in graphics compared to the capabilities of the current consoles. That has a lot to do with the fact majority of it is very subtle and that no developer has really embraced tessellation. What improvements can be seen for next generation consoles also really need to be seen in person or the original video files as recordings lose quite a bit of detail.

Hey, Jikayaki, what did you think of the Zelda tech demo?

It was impressive in its own right. The highlights of HD Experience Zelda Tech demo was the lighting, shadow, particle effects, and resolution of the animations. It looked impressive from the beginning so I really haven't given it much of a second look, but compared to the Japanese Garden Tech demo there wasn't as much going on. I'd safely say that like the Japanese Garden Tech demo the effects done in the Zelda demo was beyond anything you can do with current consoles short of the PC right now. I'm interested in seeing how Zelda Wii U ends up looking like as historically Zelda tech demos are always worse than the final product.

I think it will cost $350 in America and £319.99 but it will probably be dropped to about £300. Hopefully there can be another retail battle that will drive the price down like with the 3DS.

That all depends on how much room Nintendo has to at least break even from each console sold. Nintendo unlike Sony or Microsoft aren't going to look at loosing money at launch, so if it costs $300 U.S. to manufacture or more its unlikely the price of the console will go down for a year after launch. That's about how long it takes to launch a new version of the console with its chipsets shrunken one die size down to lower costs.

It appears Nintendo is trying to insure that two tablet controllers can be used at one time, but no word on whether they'll use more than two. There are a lot of limitations for this sort of technology, so who knows what makes using more than two tablet controllers impossible right now. For one it could be a bandwidth issue through Bluetooth or ext. Then there is the possibility its a hardware limitation. The GPU can't handle more than three monitors while maintaining the graphical quality Nintendo wants and the full functionality Nintendo intends for the tablet controllers. So to have more tablet controllers playing at once may mean you either lower the graphics of the game or hardly utilize the intended functions of the touchscreen.

I'm guessing it is going to be around 300 or 400 dollars, because the technology is stronger than the ps3 and xbox 360 apparently.

Its not overly expensive to buy chipsets for a console at mass production levels that is superior than the PS3 and Xbox 360. When matter of cost comes to play is what manufacturing die size Nintendo ends up utilizing and what transistor count the chipsets will end up with. There are options commercially available that could utterly destroy the PS3 and Xbox 360 yet Nintendo would still come in under the manufacturing costs of those consoles as they where originally. Specifically those options would merely mean Nintendo has to spend a little more than twice the money it originally did on silicon. Current statements point to the possibility of the system being higher end than I and many others originally expected, so I'd be shocked if this console launches under $350 U.S.

As much as I enjoy this news, it`s sad because the wii was perfect for pikimin

You'll still have the capability to use the Wii remote motion controls including Wii motion plus. I'm not surprised Pikimin jumped a generation. You simply have to look at how Nintendo approaches development and how their developers think, especially in the case of Iwata and Miyamoto. During development Miyamoto will completely throw out a game if it doesn't meet his expectations or he wants to add new ideas and those ideas conflict with the current version of the game. This can be seen as the result of the new art direction found in Skyward Sword motivated in part after adding Wii motion plus functionality. With Pikimin it may simply be that the Wii's hardware wasn't capable enough to do what Nintendo wanted thus why this game was continually stuck in development. Now as a plus Pikimin serves as a strong launch title that won't over shadow 3D party titles. Even if those 3d party titles are practically no more than slightly enhanced ports simply because the art direction of Pikimin won't compete directly with the same audience.

Something to look into the version of this demo used during the conference isn't the full version of the demo and the demo itself is far more impressive if you can find a good quality video. Something missing in this version for instance is the hawk or falcon part of the demo, which shows in real time the seasons changing and the falcon interacting with the environment( pulling a leaf from a tree, rain dripping of the falcon, and the falcon playing in the snow). This demo is actually very impressive once you stop to think about it even in comparison with some of the latest PC games like Witcher 2. You can't play this using current home consoles, and according to Reggie this demo was based off an earlier developer kit, thus doesn't represent the full capabilities of the console. I have higher hopes for Wii U graphically than I did originally. The CPU is likely based on info from IBM based on Power 7 architecture. This means in layman's terms there is a chance that the CPU at least is a full generational leap a head of Xbox 360, so it wouldn't make sense for the GPU to lag behind. It still won't be capable of graphics to the level of that recent EPIC demo, but neither will any next gen consoles.

The "Hawk" statement comes from the complete version of the Japanese Garden tech demo. After the Japanese koi fish the demo continues with a hawk or falcon that then precedes to move around the garden as the seasons change ending with the falcon playing in the snow on one of the roofs. This tech demo is something you really needed to see in person at the event or through high quality video to get the full effect. It's actually quite impressive in my opinion certainly not something you can do on current consoles outside the PC. We don't yet have any real hard facts on the consoles specs, but from the IBM Watson statements we can determine its based on Power 7 architecture (honestly the only real choice Nintendo had anyway). It really is possible that Wii U's CPU could be a full generational leap over Xbox 360 and it wouldn't make sense if the GPU didn't match the CPU's capabilities. It still greatly depends on what exactly you expect from a generational leap and the specifics of the chipset. There likely will be a gab between Wii U and Xbox Next and PS4, but it likely isn't going to be as large as many think. Currently I'm thinking Dreamcast comparative to the GameCube or Xbox is about as bad as its going to get.

If you read my last post about the leaks (the one in which I leaked an image myself), you'd know that these are supposed to be pictures of a developer unit with no working disc drive. So that slot you see isn't really a slot for anything.

They're not real Feld0. You shouldn't get your hopes up regarding images from a console that has only recently been in production, or potentially isn't in production yet. If you've ever seen an early Nintendo dev kit you'd understand that these devices don't fit the bill. Early dev kits are crudely built devices in the case of Cafe we're likely talking about a butchered PC.

Every last leaked photo is fake. The Nintendo logo was wrong of the first few leaked images and many of the others have obvious features that give them away as being fake. Manufacturing of this console only recently started leaked photos should be of the developer kit not prototypes, which would be secretly held at Nintendo. If any of you have ever seen a photo of a early Nintendo dev kit you'll understand that usually these devices are very crude. The early DS dev kits where made out of two butchered GBA's with a Super Nintendo controller. The current Nintendo Cafe/Stream dev kits are likely butchered PC's.

Edit: I believe I've already stated this somewhere on this blog, but anyway these fake photo leaks are created using a Windows 7 software box with fake connections. They could even used photoshop to create the majority of image. They are fake and not worth noting Nintendo would be on these rumors quicker than flies to garbage would an actual photo leak.

Since Nintendo's next console is reportedly using R700 series architecture there may not be any issues with being within the same ballpark as its competitors. The rumors from IGN contradict the rumor of AMD's Trinity fusion chipset being used in Project Cafe, but we still have a leak that points to the chipset being used in a next Generation console. The leak can't be linked to former plans from Nintendo that didn't pan out since according to rumor Nintendo's console is already in production or will be in production soon. It doesn't make since for Sony either since they need to continue to milk these generation. My guess is that the AMD Trinity fusion chipset will instead be powering Microsoft's next console. The four core CPU and either HD 5000 or HD 6000 series GPU would potentially be more powerful than the rumored three core PowerPC CPU and R700 series GPU, but not necessarily by much. A good contender for the GPU in an APU for Microsoft's next console is Radeon HD 6770, which is about 6 times as powerful as Xbox 360's Xenos. A good contender for Nintendo's Project Cafe's GPU is Radeon HD 4770, which is exactly four times more powerful than Xbox 360's Xenos. Then there is the possibility that Nintendo's console will be more exotic as unless Nintendo uses off the counter CPU parts I don't see why it would be as large as a original model Xbox 360 like depicted in the rumors. Its certainly possible that Xbox 720 could use a better GPU than Radeon HD 6770, but options available would make it difficult to use anything within the HD 6000 series beyond Radeon HD 6850, which is slightly more than six times as powerful as Xenos, but the difference in power wouldn't be more than 50 percent more powerful than Nintendo's next console and potentially if Nintendo uses a dual GPU or a Radeon HD 4890 equivalent GPU they could be more or less equal. Though if Nintendo is going with a dual GPU model the chances of it being more powerful than the Xbox exist, but if size isn't a concern Microsoft they can easily match it.

You can't say for sure. Even if no leaked real photo's have ever come up for past console releases, there's nothing saying that this one can't be real either. This is the first time a Nintendo console has been leaked to this extent, is it not?


Everything involving pre-release leaks and rumors can be compared to Schrödinger's cat. Just as the cat is both alive and dead, these rumors are both true and false. Until the box is opened, figuratively and literally, we can't tell.

Besides, current rumors and previous examples show that at least the first two rumors are likely... The similar build to the 360 and Spotpass, respectively.

A poster at Neogaf examined those photos and determined it was fake from the way Nintendo is printed in the image. Plus according to IGN you has broke a considerable amount of info on the device its the size of the original Xbox and looks like a updated Super Nintendo.

from what i know it wont be outdated it will be very powerful and graphics are at there max until 2016 when ultra high definition is meant to come out

It will be outdated from launch. The rumored GPU architecture AMD's R700 series is openGL 3.3 and DirectX 10.1 complaint when Nintendo's competitors GPU's will likely be openGL 4.1 and Direct3D 11 complaint. Technically there wouldn't be as large a difference in total functionality as the transition from openGL 3.3 to openGL 4.1 and DirectX 10.1 to Direct3D 11 primarily was simply fixing the issues with the previous API's and adding software based tessellation. Project Cafe's GPU will likewise be capable of tessellation through a hardware based operation AMD integrated into the R700 architecture,but it was hardly used outside tech demos. As far as raw power goes Nintendo's next console could very well be a true next gen leap. There are GPU's in the R700 series that would give an eight to ten times increase over current consoles. It depends on whether Nintendo utilizes a double GPU. The rumored size and price of the console at around the size of the original Xbox and costing from $350 to $400 U.S. dollars because of high manufacturing costs points to the possibility its packing a lot more power than many expect. The only reason N6 ends up being a mid generation increase in power at an expected TDP of 150 watts or more judging from the rumored size is if it uses over the shelf PC parts.

Actually, I'm thinking along the lines of... Well... What do you usually do when you go to a gaming Cafe? That's right, play online games. (At least, that's what I heard.)

That means that it will have awesome online features...

Plus...

If that box photo is real...



People, we're looking at an MMO console.

Its fake don't ever trust so called leaked photos. They are always fake.

Regarding hardware and software the console will be outdated by release, but few games even use open GL 3.3 and DX 10.1 so there is a level of complexity possible using existing API's that you don't see in majority of games possible on the console. Whether it will be outdated in regard to its hardware's raw power comes down to exactly what R700 series GPU the console's own GPU is based on. The three options I'm hoping for is Radeon HD 4850, Radeon HD 4870, or Radeon HD 4890, which would mean a four, five, or six times more powerful than Xenos. If Nintendo is serious about maintaining 3D party support for the long hall they may choose either a Radeon HD 4850x2 or a Radeon HD 4870x2 equivalent dual GPU, which would mean eight to ten times as powerful as the Xbox 360. Ironically optimizing proven tech from 2008 seems a very Nintendo thing to do and both a Radeon HD 4850x2 and Radeon HD 4870x2 are likely the cheapest way to equal a jump in power equal to the jump from PS2/Xbox to Xbox 360/PS3. I'm reasonably optimistic that Nintendo's next console will be reasonably powerful just on there rumored focus on 3D party developers and regaining the hardcore. Only issue is tessellation, which would be in software with Xbox 3/PS4 and on hardware with N6. Ultimately tessellation will be the largest visual improvement next gen the rest of the power will be utilized for more subtle things, but it would take longer to learn to utilize in hardware tessellation capabilities. The year to year and a half headstart the console may have on the market may remove that issue for any dev that seriously utilizes its hardware.

That would be £212 to £243. I hope Nintendo won't make it more expensive in Europe as they have with the 3DS. On the topic of price, I wonder how much additional controllers will cost. With the rumoured HD touchscreen they could be very expensive.

Based on the rumors IGN asked a manufacturer how much such controllers would cost to manufacture and the guess was around $25 U.S. Whether its more than $25 to manufacture depends on the capability of the screen and how much internal guts the controller has (enough to decode video or enough for some functions without streaming power from the console). Retail my guess is $80 dollars.

More IGN rumours:


IGN

These rumours are driving me crazy. Now they say it's coming out later this year...
I know GBA and GC released the same year, but will Nintendo really do this?

Seems 01Nets speculation had something behind it. Going by these specs depending on what IBM processor the custom core is based on and what R700 series GPU its graphics processor is based on we're looking at a very sizable increase in power. There are four realistic choices Radeon HD 4850, Radeon HD 4860, Radeon HD 4870, and Radeon HD 4890. Radeon HD 4860 is a little too inefficient at merely 3.5-3.8 times as powerful as Xbox 360's GPU with higher TDP than Radeon HD 4850, which itself is slightly more than 4 times as powerful as Xenos. I honestly hope they use a GPU derived from Radeon HD 4870 or HD 4890 which would result in about 5 times as powerful with 4870 and almost 6 times as powerful with 4890. A TDP below 150 watts doesn't seem a priority going by the rumored size, so who knows it could utilize a rather hot CPU or even a dual GPU depending on costs.