31 replies to this topic

[stevenk]

 

 

 

what do you guys think?

SONY Proves WiiU Texture Bandwidth Is NOT Slow

Edited by stevenk, 14 July 2013 - 03:22 AM.

[Mewbot]

Yeah, I saw this before. It's very interesting that a Sony guy said this, I wonder if he realised partway through saying it that it was applicable to a rival console?

 

He probably thought to himself "nah, don't worry, nobody will notice anyway."

Yeaaah, that didn't work out for him, did it?

[GAMER1984]

Yeah, I saw this before. It's very interesting that a Sony guy said this, I wonder if he realised partway through saying it that it was applicable to a rival console?

He probably thought to himself "nah, don't worry, nobody will notice anyway."
Yeaaah, that didn't work out for him, did it?

No one cares. The general belief is Wii U is in the same graphics/power league as 360. The Wii U won't be able to showcase a game that proves otherwise. Even though X, and MK8 look great they aren't going to change anyones mind. We have what we have with Wii U. I love my Wii U and enjoy it for what it is. But the Tech talk is going to stay the same. I expect splinter cell, AC4, watchdogs, and COD:ghost to all run pretty much the same as 360 versions. Why would developers try and push Wii U version beyond the others... When the Wii U versions of those games is pretty much guaranteed to sales the least amount.

Edited by GAMER1984, 14 July 2013 - 04:30 AM.

[NintendoReport]

No one cares. The general belief is Wii U is in the same graphics/power league as 360. The Wii U won't be able to showcase a game that proves otherwise. 

 

It already has. 

[Dragon]

So this means what I thought about the Wii U in the first place. If you develop correctly for it, games will look amazing!

[Socalmuscle]

Wii u has bandwidth down.

But the code has to be written for it specifically. We knew this.

But many lazy developers would rather throw nasty code at the wii u and call it a day, then get mad when no one wants their crappily coded, year old port of an old game meant for an old system, yet shoveled onto a next gen machine.

However some have decided to investigate further. EA actually did the with nfsmw for two seconds and had a game that was struggling to run acceptably compared to the old gen magically become a decidedly next gen (read:pc) and definitive version of that game.

Then we saw x and Mario kart which looked killer. And Mario 3d land with its killer Pixar looking characters.

If crytek, bioware, square, namco, capcom, etc. got motivated for developing wii u games properly, they would have some impressive next gen graphics going on.

As it is, the wii u is showing it can hang with ps4 and x1. But the ps4 has 8 cores, much more ram, and possibly a more powerful gpu.

So if every ounce of performance was extracted from each, ps4 is going to look better. But overall, if all systems are developed for properly, the systems are in striking distance of each other.

There is bandwidth, then there is the processing of the contents that bandwidth.

Idk what's up with x1 though. Titanfall doesn't impress graphically when you actually look at the mechs, etc. killer instinct is a low poly, washed out mess, and ryse looks good as a qte game because its so slow.

Ps4 impresses. And the wii u is beginning to show what it's meant to be now that we have finally caught glimpses of games actually made properly for the system.

Edited by Socalmuscle, 14 July 2013 - 06:20 AM.

[GAMER1984]

It already has.

Yeah but not on a scale to change minds. I say just leave it alone. No need to at this point try and prove wii u is next gen tech wise. The gameplay and fun aspect is what will sale wii u's not its gigaflops performance.

[kirbylover]

Yeah but not on a scale to change minds. I say just leave it alone. No need to at this point try and prove wii u is next gen tech wise. The gameplay and fun aspect is what will sale wii u's not its gigaflops performance.

LITTLE INFERO

[GAMER1984]

LITTLE INFERO

?

[kirbylover]

?

[GAMER1984]

?

I'm aware of the game just wondering what you mean

Edited by GAMER1984, 14 July 2013 - 09:43 AM.

[kirbylover]

I'm aware of the game just wondering what you mean

The game has awesome graphics.

[Desert Punk]

This still seems a good source for direct comparison;

 

http://gamrconnect.v...d.php?id=136756

 

Although that said Sony has confirmed the ps4 has a dedicated sound processor like xbox one but its likely just an arm core embedded somewhere or an extension to the gpu. Not a big difference.

 

Ultimately people will believe what they want to believe but again if you look around elsewhere on the web you will see the general consensus is the wii u is punching above 360 and PS3 with regard the gpu (not by much though) but punching below with regard cpu. Some games or game engines possible on 360 and PS3 may not be possible to the same level on wii u. However where the wii u shines is for gpu centric games with low cpu requirements. This type of game should punch above 360 and ps3. We may not be seeing that fully yet but I think we will when Nintendo's titles arrive.

 

Lets not forget the wii u main memory is only 12.8GB/s not even as fast as the memory bandwidth of ps3 and 360. That 32MB of video memory will clearly help with bandwidth but that main memory bandwidth of 12.8GB/s still has to be shared by the gpu and cpu.

 

As ever don't get your information from fanboys but look to unbiased sources, look how the games are actually performing, what the developers are saying about how the wii u compares to other consoles. Check out forums that have no particularly loyalty to any one console brand and read the technical threads there. In a Nintendo forum you are likely to read posts that bear little connection to reality with many exaggerated claims of performance that can easily seen to be false. Anyone who clearly shows resentment or anger about other formats is not going to be fair about their opinion of them.

[Cloud Windfoot Omega]

This still seems a good source for direct comparison;

 

http://gamrconnect.v...d.php?id=136756

 

Although that said Sony has confirmed the ps4 has a dedicated sound processor like xbox one but its likely just an arm core embedded somewhere or an extension to the gpu. Not a big difference.

 

Ultimately people will believe what they want to believe but again if you look around elsewhere on the web you will see the general consensus is the wii u is punching above 360 and PS3 with regard the gpu (not by much though) but punching below with regard cpu. Some games or game engines possible on 360 and PS3 may not be possible to the same level on wii u. However where the wii u shines is for gpu centric games with low cpu requirements. This type of game should punch above 360 and ps3. We may not be seeing that fully yet but I think we will when Nintendo's titles arrive.

 

Lets not forget the wii u main memory is only 12.8GB/s not even as fast as the memory bandwidth of ps3 and 360. That 32MB of video memory will clearly help with bandwidth but that main memory bandwidth of 12.8GB/s still has to be shared by the gpu and cpu.

 

As ever don't get your information from fanboys but look to unbiased sources, look how the games are actually performing, what the developers are saying about how the wii u compares to other consoles. Check out forums that have no particularly loyalty to any one console brand and read the technical threads there. In a Nintendo forum you are likely to read posts that bear little connection to reality with many exaggerated claims of performance that can easily seen to be false. Anyone who clearly shows resentment or anger about other formats is not going to be fair about their opinion of them.

Did you know that the Xbox 360 has Slower ram? at 11.2 ghz, the difference is  that the xbox 360 is full duplex, while  the Wii U has half duplex 12.8 ghz. Meaning it can read OR  write at a time but not both. Making it accually faster at  either given task.  But with the 32 megs  full duplex is unnecessary  since it can read and write  using both pools. The embedded will most likely be programed for  writing and the  main will be used more for reading. Putting it  far ahead of what the Xbox 360 can do.

[alan123]

where does the guy in the video say that the WiiU texture bandwidth isn't slow ?

GDDR5 & GDDR3 are NOT the same, GDDR3 benefits from low latency at the expense of bandwidth, GDDR5's case is the opposite.

The other point is that the PS4 doesn't have eDRAM because it doesn't need it, the X1 uses eSRAM to boost the GDDR3.

PS4 system bandwidth - 176 GBs = 176

X1 - system bandwidth - 68.3GBs (eSRAM bandwidth 102GBs) =170.3

WiiU system bandwidth 12.8GBs (eDRAM bandwidth 70.4 GBs) = 83.2

 

[Cloud Windfoot Omega]

 

where does the guy in the video say that the WiiU texture bandwidth isn't slow ?

GDDR5 & GDDR3 are NOT the same, GDDR3 benefits from low latency at the expense of bandwidth, GDDR5's case is the opposite.

The other point is that the PS4 doesn't have eDRAM because it doesn't need it, the X1 uses eSRAM to boost the GDDR3.

PS4 system bandwidth - 176 GBs = 176

X1 - system bandwidth - 68.3GBs (eSRAM bandwidth 102GBs) =170.3

WiiU system bandwidth 12.8GBs (eDRAM bandwidth 70.4 GBs) = 83.2

 

why are you using the number Forth Storm threw out  in theory? we  dont have any solid real world number for the wii U eDram which could be much faster..

Edited by Cloud Windfoot Omega, 14 July 2013 - 11:30 AM.

[alan123]

why are you using the number Forth Storm threw out  in theory? we  dont have any solid real world number for the wii U eDram which could be much faster..

because that is the spec on wiki & it has been for sometime now.

 

if this is very far from the true spec then why hasn't Nintendo came out with the actual specs, why are they not doing this when the confusion is destroying the WiiU, Nintendo are shooting themselves in the foot basically. 

[Cloud Windfoot Omega]

because that is the spec on wiki & it has been for sometime now.

 

if this is very far from the true spec then why hasn't Nintendo came out with the actual specs, why are they not doing this when the confusion is destroying the WiiU, Nintendo are shooting themselves in the foot basically. 

Nintendo never does. Besides,  Fourth storm said that  number  in proposition without anything to back it up. THen  people latched on and  put it on the Wiki. Anyone can  edit a Wiki by the way. Point it out and then find its citation, if none exists remove it.

[GAMER1984]

This still seems a good source for direct comparison;

http://gamrconnect.v...d.php?id=136756

Although that said Sony has confirmed the ps4 has a dedicated sound processor like xbox one but its likely just an arm core embedded somewhere or an extension to the gpu. Not a big difference.

Ultimately people will believe what they want to believe but again if you look around elsewhere on the web you will see the general consensus is the wii u is punching above 360 and PS3 with regard the gpu (not by much though) but punching below with regard cpu. Some games or game engines possible on 360 and PS3 may not be possible to the same level on wii u. However where the wii u shines is for gpu centric games with low cpu requirements. This type of game should punch above 360 and ps3. We may not be seeing that fully yet but I think we will when Nintendo's titles arrive.

Lets not forget the wii u main memory is only 12.8GB/s not even as fast as the memory bandwidth of ps3 and 360. That 32MB of video memory will clearly help with bandwidth but that main memory bandwidth of 12.8GB/s still has to be shared by the gpu and cpu.

As ever don't get your information from fanboys but look to unbiased sources, look how the games are actually performing, what the developers are saying about how the wii u compares to other consoles. Check out forums that have no particularly loyalty to any one console brand and read the technical threads there. In a Nintendo forum you are likely to read posts that bear little connection to reality with many exaggerated claims of performance that can easily seen to be false. Anyone who clearly shows resentment or anger about other formats is not going to be fair about their opinion of them.

The website you speak of doesn't exist. Believe me I've been on all of them. Its so lopsided its not even funny. Only reason there are so many radical Wii U defenders are because of the craziness that the naysayers have been saying. Things like Wii U is maxed out at launch and we will NEVER see a game on Wii U that outdoes the best of ps360... Yes I have actually had this argument with naysayers on multiple websites.

[3Dude]

desert punks cpu narrative has finally been buried, as his favourite ports he likes to bring up have been found to often only be utilizing one core, as Nintendo opted out of using an auto scheduler, meaning if you dont set a time/priority value, the process will never utilize any other cores.

Its a performance vs convenience decision, Nintendo chose performance, but without documentation, third parties didnt know they had to handle multitasking themselves, instead of having a scheduler pre-emptively handle it.

Lots of devs are just figuring it out in the last month or even just this month.

www.pcars-forum.com/project-cars-build-release-notes/1675-project-cars-build-495-499-release-notes.html

'Set main thread to (normal priority + 1) so that normal pri threads get cpu time as WiiU threads don't time slice. This is a temp solution until proper thread balancing and core affinity is set'

This is popping up in project change logs all over the place.

If you dont do this, you are only using one cpu core.


Of course, thats just documented proof, and its not even necessary.

You can just look at the bayonetta 2 gameplay demo. There is simply too much going on for the ps360 cpu's to handle, which is why no one fan find a single ps360 game that comes close in a side by side comparison.