270 replies to this topic

[Alex Atkin UK]

I think the ARM core is more about networking related services, although it remains to be seen if the ARM does the video encoding or the AMD, seeing as both can come with the necessary hardware encoding support.  I suspect the AMD though as it has hardware assist in there as standard so why add the complexity of finding a way to give the ARM access to the frame buffer, when the AMD already can do that.

 

A good point about that 15 minute buffer but seeing as there are PVRs using 2.5" HDDs I don't see why we should discount the HDD as being used for it.  That said, I see no reason why they couldn't fit the entire background OS and 15 minutes of encoded footage into 1GB of RAM.  Its one of the reasons the Wii U OS frustrates me so much as it should be lightening fast with all that RAM reserved for it.

Edited by Alex Atkin UK, 11 April 2013 - 03:24 PM.

[Goodtwin]

http://www.denali.co...ciencies-out-of

 

Here is a good article on the significance of memory subsystems designs.  Basically, the efficiency of the memory controller can have a drastic impact on performance. Imagine if the 360/PS3 memory subsystem is only 50% efficient while the Wii U is 75% or better.  The gap could potentially be even wider than that, but either way when you factor in the edram taking the frame buffer/z buffer bandwidth off the main memory, it becomes clear that the bandwidth to the main memory is not a bottleneck, and is mostly likely a very good match for the GPU and CPU performance. 

[3Dude]

http://www.denali.co...ciencies-out-of
 
Here is a good article on the significance of memory subsystems designs.  Basically, the efficiency of the memory controller can have a drastic impact on performance. Imagine if the 360/PS3 memory subsystem is only 50% efficient while the Wii U is 75% or better.  The gap could potentially be even wider than that, but either way when you factor in the edram taking the frame buffer/z buffer bandwidth off the main memory, it becomes clear that the bandwidth to the main memory is not a bottleneck, and is mostly likely a very good match for the GPU and CPU performance. 

Yeah, the mempry controller has been.a main.point of interest for me for a while now. Ot appears to bd integrated into the mcm or even gpu, which would grant a considerable effeciency boost.

[routerbad]

I think the ARM core is more about networking related services, although it remains to be seen if the ARM does the video encoding or the AMD, seeing as both can come with the necessary hardware encoding support.  I suspect the AMD though as it has hardware assist in there as standard so why add the complexity of finding a way to give the ARM access to the frame buffer, when the AMD already can do that.

 

A good point about that 15 minute buffer but seeing as there are PVRs using 2.5" HDDs I don't see why we should discount the HDD as being used for it.  That said, I see no reason why they couldn't fit the entire background OS and 15 minutes of encoded footage into 1GB of RAM.  Its one of the reasons the Wii U OS frustrates me so much as it should be lightening fast with all that RAM reserved for it.

Using the hard drive to store encoded media is fine, but it wouldn't be as instantly accessible as they touted, there would be a slight wait for it.  The problem is that when you are using a RAM scratch disk, which they would almost have to be, it wouldn't normally transfer that information out to disk until the entire encoding operation is done, so it would keep 15 minutes of encoded media, along with the RAM that is used to actually do the encoding, and it would constantly be updating it, and removing stale (past 15 minutes) A/V data.

Yeah, the mempry controller has been.a main.point of interest for me for a while now. Ot appears to bd integrated into the mcm or even gpu, which would grant a considerable effeciency boost.

Integrated onto the GPU would be ridiculously efficient.  I think it may sit right outside but on the MCM, theres a block of 8 transistors on the edge where the RAM comes into the MCM with what looks to be an I/O block or termination point.

[Goodtwin]

http://www.graphicsh...ns/ATIHot3D.pdf

 

This is a great read on how much bandwidth the z buffer can consume.  Nintendo's design is making more and more sense.  This really is almost exactly the same principles as they had with the very efficient Gamecube.  

Edited by Goodtwin, 12 April 2013 - 11:20 AM.

[GAMER1984]

http://www.graphicsh...ns/ATIHot3D.pdf

 

This is a great read on how much bandwidth the z buffer can consume.  Nintendo's design is making more and more sense.  This really is almost exactly the same principles as they had with the very efficient Gamecube.  

sounds good. i just want to see it. i really hope im not let down come E3. like im not a graphics whore i just like to see developers push a console and it specs use it to the most of its ability.

[Goodtwin]

Im in the same boat dude.  I am going to play the crap out of the Wii U no matter what, but at the same time I always like to have a few games that really showcase what the hardware can do.  When I saw Zelda WW was getting remastered I nearly had to change my shorts.  The WW art style held up very well throughout the years, and now it looks like its going to be absolutely gorgeous.  I just always remind myself that the Mario Galaxy team has about 20 times the processing power that they had when creating Galaxy, so its hard to imagine anything less than perfection.  Nintendo is going to have some gorgeous games at E3. 

[GAMER1984]

Im in the same boat dude.  I am going to play the crap out of the Wii U no matter what, but at the same time I always like to have a few games that really showcase what the hardware can do.  When I saw Zelda WW was getting remastered I nearly had to change my shorts.  The WW art style held up very well throughout the years, and now it looks like its going to be absolutely gorgeous.  I just always remind myself that the Mario Galaxy team has about 20 times the processing power that they had when creating Galaxy, so its hard to imagine anything less than perfection.  Nintendo is going to have some gorgeous games at E3. 

I agree i just dont want to get too hype and get somewhat letdown. I hyped them so much last E3 and was so letdown... in the back of my mind i believe they are gonna rock e3 and kick major A$$... but i just REALLY dont want to be let down guys. like the past couple months have been rough as a fan of theirs. it seems like publishers and developers LOATH this system for some reason. Indies are praising it to the heavens. im just scared if they dont have a big E3 things will become increasingly worse

[Goodtwin]

I agree i just dont want to get too hype and get somewhat letdown. I hyped them so much last E3 and was so letdown... in the back of my mind i believe they are gonna rock e3 and kick major A$$... but i just REALLY dont want to be let down guys. like the past couple months have been rough as a fan of theirs. it seems like publishers and developers LOATH this system for some reason. Indies are praising it to the heavens. im just scared if they dont have a big E3 things will become increasingly worse

 

I hear ya, but why were you let down?  Its because the games that weren't shown right?  Nintendo is going to show off Mario, Smash, Zelda, whatever Retro is working on.  Last year it was all about the hardware and it was disappointing, this year its all about the software and its going to be great.  Even if Retro's game isnt quite as technically impressive as I am thinking, I will still be jacked up about thier game.  The Metroid Prime games were awesome, and Donkey Kong Country Returns was a blast as well.  I seriously doubt we will be let down.   

[Alex Atkin UK]

Its such a long long wait though.

 

I think LEGO City Undercover, once you really start looking carefully at it, shows the Wii U has a lot of potential over PS360. 

 

I have read a lot of people disappointed in the graphics, I was too at first mostly because of the awful frame rate which is particularly bad at the start of the game.  But the more you play the game, the more you see the polish on the graphics.  Everything is much more shiny and reflective, I'm certain they are using tesselation as the mountains are quite smooth.  Its almost a shame its not on PS360 as I think this game would look VERY scaled back on there and so have more impact on Wii U.

 

I just downloaded The Cave for free on Playstation Plus and immediately noticed the fluctuated frame rate and the lighting looked much more tame than I recall of the Wii U demo. 

 

Games ARE starting to show that the Wii U is a nice upgrade over PS360, not a HUGE jump as such, but a much MUCH more polished version of what the current systems can do - if only the developers had the final devkits sooner.  I just wish there were a lot more exclusives, right now, to show all this off.

Edited by Alex Atkin UK, 13 April 2013 - 03:25 PM.

[Goodtwin]

Its such a long long wait though.

 

I think LEGO City Undercover, once you really start looking carefully at it, shows the Wii U has a lot of potential over PS360. 

 

I have read a lot of people disappointed in the graphics, I was too at first mostly because of the awful frame rate which is particularly bad at the start of the game.  But the more you play the game, the more you see the polish on the graphics.  Everything is much more shiny and reflective, I'm certain they are using tesselation as the mountains are quite smooth.  Its almost a shame its not on PS360 as I think this game would look VERY scaled back on there and so have more impact on Wii U.

 

I just downloaded The Cave for free on Playstation Plus and immediately noticed the fluctuated frame rate and the lighting looked much more tame than I recall of the Wii U demo. 

 

Games ARE starting to show that the Wii U is a nice upgrade over PS360, not a HUGE jump as such, but a much MUCH more polished version of what the current systems can do - if only the developers had the final devkits sooner.  I just wish there were a lot more exclusives, right now, to show all this off.

 

 

The Cave runs like crap on every platform.  You can check out PC forums where guys are having trouble with the game running well on their gaming rig.  The game design is great but whoever coded the game needs to go to school, its terribly inefficient code. 

 

Thats kind of the way I envision the Wii U, offering more polished looking Xbox 360 graphics with more effects going on all at once than the 360 could handle.  As time goes on we should see the Need For Speed treatment applied to all multi plat games on Wii U.  They are still going to look mostly like the 360/PS3 versions, but with some extra effects and polish.  Exclusives will be the only games to truly showcase the hardware.