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#121 Xiombarg

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 11:57 PM

That sounds like an awfully depressing life my friend... one with no hope.. or purpose..or meaning... and at the end of that purposeless life you just die and nothing else happens... we are all just a pile of $#!T that the universe decided to crap out one day only to be destroyed... And to believe all that without it even being proven...


If you are going to believe something that hasnt been "scientifically" proven... why not choose the one with hope and purpose and has a happy ending...

In the grand scheme of things... if you are right then it doesnt really matter.... but if i am right then your're screwed... from your perspective wouldnt it be better to be safe rather than sorry?

If I were the same person I was years back (an intolerant atheist) I would say that is Pascal's wager, and etc and etc...

I actually don't believe in much because it doesn't matter to me. I have already learned that the search for truth isn't important to me and such a truth would do little to improve my life. I live my life searching for my own happiness and meaning. I choose not to align myself with science any longer, as it is just a dry investigation for possible truth. I can be considered a hypocrite, as I change the way I think to be happy. In all honesty, I am just as illogical as any theist, as I sometimes actually believe that dragons exist because of something or another.
In the end, my opinions and beliefs change, but I just don't believe in a god because it doesn't matter to me.

#122 Dan

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 11:58 PM

That's called Pascal's Wager and it's terribly immoral and an even worse reason to believe in a God. I dont think a God would appreciate you pretending to believe just to be 'safe.'

ninja'd, ha

Edited by Dan, 13 December 2012 - 11:58 PM.

 


#123 Mitch

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 12:02 AM

That's called Pascal's Wager and it's terribly immoral and an even worse reason to believe in a God. I dont think a God would appreciate you pretending to believe just to be 'safe.'

ninja'd, ha


I never said this was my reasoning for believing in God.....?

I said from the point of view of someone who is already believing in something that is not scientific; wouldn't it make sense to just believe in God to have your bases covered

...because if you are going to deny there is a God anyway then why do you really care if he appreciates it or not :P

#124 Dan

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 12:10 AM

How can you expect someone to blindly accept there is a God, though? The 'reasons' for his existence dwindle with every scientific achievement. It would not make sense to believe in something just because no one can scientifically answer a question you have.

Edited by Dan, 14 December 2012 - 12:11 AM.

 


#125 CUD

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 12:25 AM

So what it really comes down to is someone attempting to discover the origins?

Because those scientists have no actual answers..... but you blindly believe them????


How about this.. I tell you I am on a scientific quest to prove God exists, then according to your thinking; that alone should be enough for you to believe God exists

When did I say I blindly believe them? I find the theories that they come up with, that are derived from actual evidence, to be more believable than a god existing with no evidence whatsoever. To reiterate, I find these theories more believable but I don't believe it is fact because they are still just theories.

I need evidence before I believe something, like any logically thinking person should.

That sounds like an awfully depressing life my friend... one with no hope.. or purpose..or meaning... and at the end of that purposeless life you just die and nothing else happens... we are all just a pile of $#!T that the universe decided to crap out one day only to be destroyed... And to believe all that without it even being proven...


If you are going to believe something that hasnt been "scientifically" proven... why not choose the one with hope and purpose and has a happy ending...

In the grand scheme of things... if you are right then it doesnt really matter.... but if i am right then your're screwed... from your perspective wouldnt it be better to be safe rather than sorry?

Blind hope isn't necessarily better than no hope and no god doesn't imply no hope.

As mentioned, what you are talking about is Pascal's Wager but using such a wager as reasoning behind your beliefs is not true commitment to a religion, I suppose it could be seen as voluntarily being delusional out of fear and false hope. I know this isn't your reasoning behind your beliefs since you said so but implying that this is a good reason to believe is grasping at straws to say the least.

This statement is false. The previous statement is true.

RIP in peace Nintendo.

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#126 Mitch

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 12:32 AM

implying that this is a good reason to believe is grasping at straws to say the least.


Is not going to hell a better reason then?

#127 CUD

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 12:46 AM

Is not going to hell a better reason then?

It's the same concept, whether it be false hope or fear these are not good reasons to believe in a god/be delusional to the extent of believing in that which has no evidence.

Tell me, why do you believe in god other than fear of death/hell and the hope of heaven? If I told you of a more powerful deity that offered an even better heaven and no chance of hell as well as making all your dreams come true, would you believe me? I assume you wouldn't but why not, considering you believe in your current god without evidence why would this one that I claim to be superior be less believable?

This statement is false. The previous statement is true.

RIP in peace Nintendo.

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#128 Lain

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 01:33 AM

I found out that I was an atheist quite young, I never prayed or went to church. I just never felt a thing such as "God" could exist, it just didn't seem possible to me. Evolution makes much more sense and seems logical, in my opinion of course. None of my family members know, I keep it to myself in order to not make myself seem like an "outcast".


You found out you were atheist? Okay...

Being atheist, simply, means you possess no belief in the notion of God. Logic tends to be the justification behind atheistic beliefs (or at least it the initial justification), but can only be true if God is bounded by logic, so to speak. I suppose our beliefs are highly dependent on our own definitions of what God is.

In any case, I am not atheist. Quite frankly, I'm generally apathetic to discussions about my belief in God because they often tend to be nothing more than interesting waste of times.

#129 BanjoKazooie

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 03:15 AM

I'm agnostic, I dont no if their is a god, and I frankly don't care either, religion just causes arguments and war and hatred and violence. Also, their is no way in hell that Noah's Arch is real.

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#130 Dragon

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 05:43 AM

I'm agnostic, I dont no if their is a god, and I frankly don't care either, religion just causes arguments and war and hatred and violence. Also, their is no way in hell that Noah's Ark* is real.


How so?

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#131 PedanticGamer

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 06:07 AM

That sounds like an awfully depressing life my friend... one with no hope.. or purpose..or meaning... and at the end of that purposeless life you just die and nothing else happens... we are all just a pile of $#!T that the universe decided to crap out one day only to be destroyed... And to believe all that without it even being proven...

Does it? It doesn't sound depressing or purposeless to me. In fact it makes me appreciate what we have even more then I otherwise would. Conversely if you are going to heaven or hell then what is the point of doing anything but making sure you go to heaven? Seems like a fairly empty life to me. This also suggest you only have faith as it makes you fell better about yourself.

If you are going to believe something that hasnt been "scientifically" proven... why not choose the one with hope and purpose and has a happy ending...

Because there is actual evidence for it, something religion has none of. Furthermore this suggests because something doesn't have all the answers you should just

In the grand scheme of things... if you are right then it doesnt really matter.... but if i am right then your're screwed... from your perspective wouldnt it be better to be safe rather than sorry?

There are how many hundreds of gods? and you by the sheerest of accidents believe in the one you do as a result of where you where borne ow where surrounded by (most likely). Yet you are saying others are screwed? Irony is apparently lost on you. Furthermore this whole notion of having faith "as it better being safe then sorry" is beyond silly (and fear mongering). It also brings up the point that it suggest you only have faith as it gives you solace, that is once again dependent on you having faith and how does one have faith? Well they are either indoctrinated or ignore all evidence in an attempt to make themselves fell better about themselves.


Here is a basic problem no religious person has been able to answer. Explain why you are of that religion without using the world belief or similar to justify yourself. If you can't do that you must accept the only reason you believe is because someone told you so, and why would they know anymore then you about this supposed god. Furthermore give me one good reasons why I should take your belief in something any more seriously then something that has an equal lack of evidence (such as the spaghetti monster), once again don't answer "you should take my belief more seriously as I believe" as that is not a real answer (rather it is an acknowledgment that you don't know why you have faith).


How so?


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I genuinely am not sure, have you read Genesis? In fact how many so people who are religious here have actually read and studied what they say they believe in?


It's the same concept, whether it be false hope or fear these are not good reasons to believe in a god/be delusional to the extent of believing in that which has no evidence.

Tell me, why do you believe in god other than fear of death/hell and the hope of heaven? If I told you of a more powerful deity that offered an even better heaven and no chance of hell as well as making all your dreams come true, would you believe me? I assume you wouldn't but why not, considering you believe in your current god without evidence why would this one that I claim to be superior be less believable?


Don't expect an answer as no one can justify there faith on anything but "it's my faith". Precisely why I have asked the same question many times before. It is actually amusing watching such questions either ignored, or better yet answered with another question of no relevance in a vein attempt to justify not having an answer to the question.


I never said this was my reasoning for believing in God.....?


The only reason anyone believes in a god of any religion is because they where told it was true and blindly accepted it. Hence why they have faith.

Edited by PedanticGamer, 14 December 2012 - 06:19 AM.

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#132 Dragon

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 06:15 AM

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I don't care what you were referring to there. It made me laugh.

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#133 PedanticGamer

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 06:18 AM

I don't care what you were referring to there. It made me laugh.


See my update post. But yes, I was trying to bring some levity to the discussion as well. :)

Edited by PedanticGamer, 14 December 2012 - 06:19 AM.


#134 Dragon

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 06:25 AM

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I genuinely am not sure, have you read Genesis? In fact how many so people who are religious here have actually read and studied what they say they believe in?


I've studied a bit of both sides. But the thing is, no matter what side I'm on, I couldn't defend it very well. I don't take enough time to study it. My reason for why I believe in God is spiritual. I've always felt like something is there... And TBH, I couldn't be an atheist if I tried.

But even if I tried to defend a side, it would piss me off horribly. That's why I usually ignore threads like this. But I'm up for a small debate as long as it stays friendly. But most go hostile. lol

Maybe I can use this thread as motivation to study more...

Edited by Dragon, 14 December 2012 - 06:32 AM.

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#135 PedanticGamer

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 06:30 AM

I've studied a bit of both sides. But the thing is, no matter what side I'm on, I couldn't defend it very well. I don't take enough time to study it. My reason for why I believe in God is spiritual. I've always felt like something is there... And TBH, I couldn't be an atheist if I tried.

But even if I tried to defend a side, it would piss me off horribly. That's why usually ignore threads like this. But I'm up for a small debate as long as it stays friendly. But most go hostile. lol

Maybe I can use this thread as motivation to study more...


Indeed, one thing I don't think people will notice reading what I have written is I haven't really said there is or isn't a god. Rather I have said there is no good reason to believe in the god of any religion that exists.

As for why I asked the whole story of Noah's Arc is so absurd it simply cannot be taken literally, which is what I think the other poster was hinting at.

Edited by PedanticGamer, 14 December 2012 - 06:32 AM.


#136 Dragon

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 06:34 AM

Indeed, one thing I don't think people will notice reading what I have written is I haven't really said there is or isn't a god. Rather I have said there is no good reason to believe in the god of any religion that exists.

As for why I asked the whole story of Noah's Arc is so absurd it simply cannot be taken literally, which is what I think the other poster was hinting at.


Some people feel happier when they believe. I know I do. Then you have the people who believe only for the "just in case" the rapture happens that they are safe.

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#137 PedanticGamer

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 06:36 AM

Some people feel happier when they believe. I know I do. Then you have the people who believe only for the "just in case" the rapture happens that they are safe.


If they only believe "just in case" then they don't really believe. I agree many people do fell happier when they believe, in fact that is one of the reasons I fell humans have created the concept of religion and god(s).

#138 Dragon

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 06:42 AM

If they only believe "just in case" then they don't really believe. I agree many people do fell happier when they believe, in fact that is one of the reasons I fell humans have created the concept of religion and god(s).


Well the story behind Jesus has a bit more to it then other religions... James Cameron (yes, the director) found the bones of Jesus. Does that prove the entire story? No. Does it add up to a couple of the stories? Yes. But there are so many things to account for in the bible. And since they would've happened a few thousand years ago, it's hard to find evidence behind it. With science today, everything is ran by technology and human. So it would be subject to errors from both. sides. Radiometric dating is the source of how scientists date the ages of bones, correct?

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#139 PedanticGamer

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 06:48 AM

Well the story behind Jesus has a bit more to it then other religions... James Cameron (yes, the director) found the bones of Jesus. Does that prove the entire story? No. Does it add up to a couple of the stories? Yes. But there are so many things to account for in the bible. And since they would've happened a few thousand years ago, it's hard to find evidence behind it. With science today, everything is ran by technology and human. So it would be subject to errors from both. sides. Radiometric dating is the source of how scientists date the ages of bones, correct?


There are many ways of dating bones.

What you have said assumes that there simply isn't evidence to support the bible (which is true), but it doesn't account in any way for all the evidence that supports it being nothing more then a story.

Also the bible doesn't have nay more to it then any other religion and actually copies several stories in numerous areas that predate the bible.

Also, someone found the bones of Jesus, how did they know it was his bones?

Edited by PedanticGamer, 14 December 2012 - 06:49 AM.


#140 Dragon

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 06:52 AM

There are many ways of dating bones.

What you have said assumes that there simply isn't evidence to support the bible (which is true), but it doesn't account in any way for all the evidence that supports it being nothing more then a story.

Also the bible doesn't have nay more to it then any other religion and actually copies several stories in numerous areas that predate the bible.

Also, someone found the bones of Jesus, how did they know it was his bones?


I'm not saying there isn't evidence, rather not enough for the science community to believe it. Mainly because the story revolves around something spiritual.
And here's the article: http://en.wikipedia....t_Tomb_of_Jesus

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