I think after the TP reveal in 2004 people were looking at tree branches and analyzing them thinking it was some woods creature.

They thought that tree was a giant creature. People looked so far into it including the water as if it meant something special. Best part is this did not make it into the final game.

So much of what I was so excited for with tp didnt make it into the game...

Haha u on my friends list. Eddyray

Oh yeah, forgot it shows what your playing XD.

There better be a Hero Mode and/or Master Quest. And saves should be a part of your WiiU profile. What I really want in the game are mini dungeons. Not the whole "solve this one puzzle or check out this concept" like in ALBW. MINI dungeons. Like adding to the core dungeons in theme or idea, but very much its own out of the way, neat, "Holy crap, check this out!". Oh, and did I mention MINI dungeons? I want minimized dungeons to find and explore dammit. At least the size of OoT's Forest Temple.

Im sure there will be. I think horse is talking about an end game though. Letting you continue to explore, and find things you missed after last boss.

So 3dude... You playing ww HD to get some ideas about Zelda u ?

What?

....
........

Where ARE you?

lol "I agree with nintendo on this" what on earth? Agree on what? That barren overworlds are better?
 
Anyways, I can see your point, and I hope you're right that they're just avoiding the densely populated areas so they aren't spoiled.
 
As for your edit, look at my edit. The parts when they're up high are awesome and detailed.

LMAO NO!! XD

No, I agree with them cutting out all the land marks and points of interest that they clearly traversed past on their way.

(Orient the map showm, to the view over the c
iff, then match landmarks in the distance in the video from what you saw over the cliff)

I can tell they skipped the village, the hylian stone henge, and the lake house.

I agree because too a game thats all about exploration and discovery again, showing the things you are supposed to find and discover is like ruining the story for someone.

Nah, that's just silly. You can have a town and npcs but still have an amazing looking world in the background. All we're saying is there are some points in the video where it's really empty. Not only devoid of animals and enemies, but of interesting things in general. The grass does indeed look amazing, and the lighting is great, but that doesn't make it good. I wouldn't buy a game where the extent of its praises were that the grass was good and the world looks good. I need things to do. Gameplay.

But cramming those things in every second of the game is just design noise. Its Ubicrap.

The video literally showed the landscape was PACKED with places to go and check out. The constant editing was probably removing them so they arent spoiled.

I agree with nintendo on this. When your game is literally based on discovery, everything you show beihg discovered erodes at its enjoyment once you finally get it. To that end, I already am planning on going on a blackout for this.

*EDIT* DUDE you need to find a better quality video. That look over the cliff was jam packed with land marks and features to exlore.

Ignore the top box, I did a double reply by accident...
 
I hope that the game will change according to the seasons, imagine seeing Zelda U with snow everywhere, throw snowballs at gannondorf to defeat him lol XD
 
The world in Twilight princess was SO boring, didn't wanna travel there at all...
 
Ocarina of time was perfect though, small but packed with enough things to keep you busy.
 
Well, I wouldn't mind it if they kept you occupied when travelling to another place, like  make it so you can upgrade your gear/ change it as epona goes to the destination.

Seasons would be cool.

Im pretty sure you will be able to change your gear on the touch pad while eponas ai doesnt run into trees. You will also be free to look around and notice places you might want to check out along the way. What we dont need, is Ubicrap everywhere.

Im starting to suspect flight will be featured in this game as a late game travel mechanic. The engine seems more than capable of supporting it.

I can't believe I missed this post, thanks!


 
Honestly, if I wanted to spend hours in the middle of a forest doing nothing, I would just go outside...
 
This is a video game after all, they wouldn't want to bore us that much.

I think a lot of people are getting hung up on this because they are watching instead of doing.

First and foremost, lets just get this out of the way: The final product will be teeming with background life. Thats just a given.

So, it is important to have that bit of forest with nothing in it. Its like the rests, and spaces between notes in music, it forms the rythm of the melody, constantly assaulting the player with busy work and inane things to do is like just having every instrument blasting at the same time. Its just noise. Too many games today are just design noise.

Now, what we dont want is a barren overworld with nothing to do. Thats what TP was, and I can already tell, this isnt it.

Now, while there may be patches of time where we are just passing through serene forest thats pretty to look at, this ok, its like a rest in music, its important for developing the rythm. What we want isne necessarilly being kept constantly busy, like a child with no attention span constantly needing keys jingled in front of him. No, we need lots of places to find, and quality things to find when we get their.

The journey through the landscape that is not constantly stimulating builds tension, as you remain focused on where you are going, and not 'OH SQUIRREL!!! HE WANTS ME TO GET HIS NUTS!!!'

What is it? Whats going to be there? Will I get something?

What we need are lots of these, of high quality. Windwaker tried to do something similar, and did a great job, but was held back by the limits of the time and technology. With only one island per square kilometer, there was a lot of area, and the things to do were quality, but was not enough places to go and things to do. Twilight princess had neither enough places to go, nor quality things to do for its world size. Tossing in inane fetch quests like bugs and poes, does not come remotely close to meeting designed areas with things to do.

This seems to be taking a similar approach to WW, but ramping up the number of points of interest, places the player will see and want to go too, to a very high density.

In windwaker, you could typically see 3 places to go at any time. Islands in the middle of nowhere, one front, one left, one right. Cant see behind you.

Here, just glancing over the cliff i am overloaded with the amount of set peices I see. Each and every one of them is likely the equivilant of an island in ww, its a designed place to go with something unique to do. And there were so many of them. And thats just a tiny area of a huge map.

Artsyle wise it doesn't, and just because we saw Link at the top of a large hill doesn't mean it's gonna be like that game
 
 
And it's beautiful, I just hope the world feels useful, this game HAS to have at least 20 dungeons to make use of that amazing over world.

Did I say art style? No, no I did not. I specifically said scene composition because that was what I was talking about, if I was talking about art style, I would have said art style. I am talking content, composition of a scene.

http://www.digitalca...-why-they-work/

http://www.quepublis...=23099&seqNum=5

http://www.cybercollege.com/tvp022.htm

Scene composition>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Art style, because content takes precedence over form.

and it is deliberately identical here.

Looks nothing like it but okay.

The scene composition is identical. You need your eyes checked.

Loved the show. Really laughed at some parts.
Mario Maker is looking more appealing with SMB 3 World aesthetics. Those levels were pretty awesome!
 
Zelda was...wow. The game looks really good and i feel it's going to be really special! Mark my words!

Words marked.



This is what ive been waiting for, for so very long.

Look at the sunlight reflecting off that grass. 
 

 
oh and look at the grass move around the horsie's hooves

If anyone wants a really good look at the grass and things up close, the best quality video is on the eshop. Somebody needs to make a zoomed in version of that feed.

You can actually see that the flowers and wheat stalks are actually still there.

Yeah this is my main problem with what they showed. Nothing had as much detail and complexity as what they showed in the E3 trailer. But like I said, I'm sure they'll fix that. But I think that's what most people are complaining about.

Im not concerned. Nothings been downgraded engine wise. The differences seen here are of different areas. The first one shown was chosen because it was near finished level quality, in the areas directly shown close to link, which werent many.

The new footage had clearly unfinished areas, and showed a need for optimization... in conditions that would break just about any engine i know of (except the xeno engine and stuff like witcher 3). But its pretty easy to tell the difference between unfinished and poor or downgraded if you know what to look for.

Just to point out, despite the frame hiccups when the camera is swung around over vast amounts of actually rendered geometry like a madman, when the game is running smoothly, it appears to be going for 60fps. Its tough to tell on a youtube video for obvious reasons, but im pretty confident, the slow mo seems to help a lot with helping me feel like this, Which would make this the first 60fps 3d style/console style zelda.

You must have like super human eyes or something, it was near impossible to see any little details due to the lighting and the fact that it wasn't focused on the TV that much.

They arent tiny details, they are kind of large structures, given away by blatant design changes in the scenery around them, ie paths and clearings to get to them. I think it would be pretty easy to miss them if looking for tiny pixel details, instead of more big picture, like missing the forest for the trees or something.

Im pretty good at finding that kind of stuff, its literally the founding mechanic of my favourite genre and design style. Honestly, people who cant yet do that are probably in the 'sweet spot' where the impact of stumbling upon, and discovering, and getting adept at finding things will be the greatest. So what REALLY grinds my gears are these obnoxious crappers who think they know SO MUCH, miss EVERYTHING and complain about the game not having things. The whole POINT of the schopl of design zelda was founded on (and the 3d games destroyed) was the excitement and sense of accomplishment that came with FINDING things, which means no neon signs pointing them out, no painfully obvious cutscene introduced, step by step forced walkthrough. Its not obvious, its not supposed to be obvious, and thats the point.

People just VASTLY over estimate their abilities, thinking they are geniuses at game design, when they actually know jack crap. In fact they know so little, they LITERALLY can not begin to comprehend the knowledge it would take for them to REALIZE how ignorant they are. Straight up text book dunning kroger:
http://en.m.wikipedi...g–Kruger_effect

Pandering to them is what has destroyed gaming, design has gotten dumber, and dumber, and dumber, and dumber, and dumber, just to appease them and their pitiful powers of observation attached to their obnoxious entitled arrogance.

To me, Wind waker is one of the most "serious" Zelda games.

Both ww and ss, in purposeful contrast to their visuals, are by far the most thematically serious Zeldas.

and why do you think that sir?

The way it handles streaming, extreme distance covering for the zoom handles like ms xeno engine, it has no restrictions for player camera positions, which is why the player can not only climb to so many high points to look around, but jump off and glide on a whim... Which means no super obvious/ cramped potato landscape design tricks to limit what the player can see (putting a set piece behind a mountain so the player cant see it, and forcing the player to go all the way areound said mountains, so it seems like they travelled far, when in reality, they are only 200 ft from where they started, but on the other side... (dragon age inq.))

And monolithsoft has helped on the past 3 or so zeldas.

I wonder if you could edit the Horse ai with a slider, so if you want full blown, manual with still tree dodging, to pure manual.
 
A lot, at least on the game awards video complaining that the world is bland, silly people.

Thats because these people cant find anything unless it mushroom stamps them in the face and screams. Its way game design has devolved into 5 second attention span ubirainbow. Designing for the lowest common denominator.

In the glance over the cliff sequence there are:
A lake
With a lake house
A village
Vines for climbing
a water fall
Top of the mountain of the waterfall with traversable style geometry
Pathways in said mountains on multiple levels.
A stonehenge style rock formation
A man made shrine... thing
multiple caves and tunnels
smoking volcano
multiple sentry towers

WIth how large that world is, I really hope they don't forget to implement a fast-travel system...

You can count on there being one.

Hmmm.... I think this might be a tweaked monolithsoft engine...

I'm not, I genuinely didn't notice that happening. Anyway, there's still a small possibility it's just the fact he was using gyro while facing the opposite direction of the screen. In other words, could be bad calibration and not framedrop. In fact I'm glad you mentioned the beacon, because the animation of it being placed seems to be running perfectly smoothly even when the screen is acting weird, which would indicate calibration, not a frame drop. And even if it is frame drop the game is probably like a year from being done, and a year in Nintendo dev time is a LOOONG way from being finished. Basically it's not a big deal.
 
I think it looked fine. i don't about you, but when i go walking through the forest, I don't even see as much wildlife as was in the video. And I have to wander if you've played MMORPG's before lol. Most of the ones I've played may have monsters and stuff in  between but not ones you can/want to bother yourself with, so most times you have pretty long amounts of time just traveling. And honestly, it can be really nice.

There was definately frame drops. Its not even worth thinking about though. This demo is already months behind the build of the actual game, and stuff like that will get hammered out in the final phase after the games feature complete. Well, in Nintendo games at least.

You can also expect a transitional texture layer and more to be put between things like the rock/hill and the ground in those really rough looking spots. Very common place things.

again, i was referring to how barren the video felt.  Commenting on if it exists in game isn't the same as showing me how full, or lacking, of life the game is.    In that sense, i hope there is much more than what was shown in the final build. 
 
On a side note, i did wonder why they didn't climb the tower/watchpost right by the cliff and jump from there, as it would give a better view of the area, there would also likely be a NPC near by there too though i doubt there is one in the build shown, or was removed.
 
If exploring is just going from point A to B and have relatively little in between, then ill be dissapointed. In that sense, traversal can quickly start to work against you.   I do count a pretty environment as relatively little in most cases.

Its probably because they didnt WANT you to see the npc's yet, and they didnt WANT you to see everything you can see from that tower. Probably also why the video was constantly and so heavily edited.

What is the point of complaining, when you already know the game is going to be teeming with detail like that? Its almost like its a nintendo title and they have ridiculous attention to detail to the tiniest things, and they already showed a video teeming with those exact things, like flocks of reacting birds, herds of reacting goats, and reactive farmers in village fields last e3.

Why do people constantly do this? Im not even talking about you anymore, just that its reminding me of dozens of truly boneheaded knee jerks ive already seen. Why do they do it, every single time, with every unfinished nintendo title?

Do they not get tired of constantly being wrong? Do they have no sense of pattern recognition? Or do they like it? Like doing it on purpose to be pleasently surprised?


I will never understand seeing the same people, making the same wrong impressions, and never learning, every single time.

Like neogaf, the same people, dozens of them, said the same things about an unfinished 3d world, said the same things about an unfinished mk8 with empty lifeless tracks, said the SAME THING with X, and are now saying, again, the same thing about Zelda.


Just... Why wont they factor these past experiences into their current judgement?

The huge world excites me. Zelda is often hit or miss with me. SS was the first I skipped all together. This world with so much to explore is the first Zelda to truly get me hyped.
 
I'm keeping a close eye on all these open world RPG games and now Zelda (since Zelda is not an RPG)

Ive gotten hyped for 3d Zeldas before, but not for the same reasons As the great 2d ones (lttp, la, oracles).

I enjoyed all the Zeldas that have come out since going 3d, as they have all been quality experiences.....

But this is the first one since the series went 3d to excite me for the reasons I became a fan of the series in the first place.

I was referring to how barren the map feels, the majority of it has minimal wildlife roaming around.  i was not asking for something to pop out and attack me at every given moment, I just don't want the see the world as a partially improved wind waker when i'm traversing the map.  I know that may because its a early build/removed for the video.

Did you have the sound on? Miyamoto makes note of insect and animal life, and interactive fauna like picking and eating apples. Also, the herd of horses are not the only wild life in the video.

Honestly, when a massive elk on top of a cliff looking down watching you, is so horrible obscured by a combination of horrible video quality and tiny off screen syndrome, that 95% of people are blown away when a contrast adjusted pick with it circled shows up, I have little hope of wildlife like birds, butterflies squirrels etc showing through the footage provided.

For all we know there could be leprechauns sharting rainbows at each other in the grass and the trees, and wed never see them through that feed.

Finally...

Looks cool, but it doesn't look near finished yet. Barren world, frame drops, doesn't really look as good as it did at E3... I'm not worried though, I trust Nintendo to make this an amazing game.

Its definately unfinished. This demo build even more so. You have to start preparing a build of an in progress game months in advance of when you plan to show it, You have to work out what you are going to show, what you dont want to show, make sure the build is stable enough not to crash during the demo... And make sure you have it finished before the deadline. Preferrably well before.


Where Zelda U is actually at right now, in its unfinished state, Is light years beyond where the build split off to make this demo. Its just the way these things work.

Especially at the point of developement is at right now, That point where the game is nearing/feature complete, and its polish time, build changes practically daily.

looks good, think the world may need some more content on while you travel. Besides that, looks great

I dont know about that. I dont mind travel times. Lend depth to the world,and contrast, weight to discovery. Like how rests and note lengths are used to create rythm in music, without them all you have is noise.

If you are constantly doing crap, constantly, everystep of the way, the impact of discovery is lessened, its just another thing to add to the pile of constant stimulation.


When I complain of empty overworlds, its not from a lack of constantly being bombarded by stimulus, but a lack of places to go, and things to do when I get there. Zelda Us landscape was LITTERED with land marks, interesting formations, and man made objects. There are lots of places to go, for someone like me, its almost overwhelming seeing them all with a glance, and almost painful not being in control, to run of and explore them... In the order I find most effecient.

As long as the travel times are designed well, to provide a sense of journey between destinations, I will be fine without being interrupted with forced 'content density' hand holding from scripted point to point chasing monkies, and bugs, and other immersion halting cutscene introduced junk i just feel is padding, accompanied with constant hey listens.

See something, find it, explore it. That is the fundamental thing that made Zelda, Zelda for me, and its been a very long time since any zelda game, even the ones I really liked, gave me that feeling like this one did.

I dont want a constant barrage of things to do every second of the game. I want a lot of places to go to. There will be things to find, explore, and do there.

Oh man, there are landmarks, formations, and objects EVERYWHERE, I wish I could take screens of and disect. But I wont have my computer until next weekend.

Miyamoto also said there was insects, and other animal life, as well as apples on the trees, to which was remarked you could even pick and eat them. But they werent there, and it was said in such a way to make it sound like it was removed for this showing... Nintendos really been knocking everything wii u out of the park recently. I get the feeling Zelda is not going to be an exception.

*Beaten*. Seasons... Didnt think of that. Pretty astute postulation. I REALLY like that idea. Maybe controlling them oracles style at some point...

So can anyone tell what the creature watching link from the cliff/rock top is? Its right before the horse herd, with the castle like structure in the background. At first I though it was a horse, but,while a quadraped, its body structure doesnt really look like a horse to me.