You always get your Nintendo fans who are hoping for amazing performance from new Nintendo consoles and on the face of it, its realistic to expect the wii U to be more powerful than 360/PS3 because of the wii U being much later but both of those consoles were brought to market making a huge loss and financially neither have been successful...
Personally I think the new Xbox and PS4/Orbis won't be as ambitious as many are hoping for either. So we may find that despite the wii U not being as powerful as we hoped it still won't be that far behind Orbis and PS4 which may end up being only 2-5x as powerful as the earlier generations.  The xbox 360 is at least 10x as powerful as the original xbox overall and I don't think we are going to get that difference this time around. I think its all about launching at a competitive price point. I personally think this is the sane thing to do. I went through about 7 faulty 360s as I was an early adopter and it was a complete farce. My 60GB PS2 compatible PS3 has never gone wrong but many have reported problems. This time around it seems like consoles will use mature technology that will hopefully be robust and reliable which I'm quite happy about.

Also lets not forget the wii U will have advantages not directly understood on analysis of the specification to do with modern manufacturing processes. If the gpu, gpu memory, cpu, cpu cache and a few other functions are all integrated onto one large i.c. then the wii U will have incredibly low latency and huge memory bandwidth which will enable the console to be pushed beyond what you expect for the hardware and even just fitting 768M or 1GB of memory gives it clear advantages over 360 and PS3. Also the wii U has a high density optical drive which the 360 hasn't.

this is just a perfectly-phrased analysis... thanks for this

yeah, i'm going to have to go ahead and agree with the $300 estimate... if only because (sadly) I believe the rumors about Nintendo hitting the bargain bin on their GPU to keep costs down.

I would GLADLY pay $400-$450 for the WiiU if it featured some solid, forward-thinking hardware specs (not mind-blowingly powerful, which is really outside of a console's reach at a reasonable price, but with enough oomph to output native 1080p while running all the bells and whistles of developers' recently-teased game engine updates).

But hey, that really isn't how Ninty operates (nor what has made them special to me, for that matter). I'll always feel a little embarassed by the specs, and I'll always feel ultimately satisfied by the truly engaging experiences that the company offers me. I DON'T think that Iwata-and-co. will get greedy after the 3DS price debaucle, so I'm confident that we will get a somewhat annoyingly (though not painfully) underpowered system at a reasonable price.

Burger Time: U - "This Time, It's Personal"

I'd like to see F-Zero but a little bit like StarFox adventures. I mean half of the time would be racing, while the other half would be an (open?) world adventure game. It would be IMO amazing.

man, this is an amazing idea... actually most of them are things I could get really excited about.  i wish I had been following this post more closely!  what strikes me is how many of these ideas are really innovative ways of "expanding" current franchises into new territory

So, I love the Nintendo IPs... franchises like Mario, Zelda, Metroid, Star Fox, Pokemon, Pikmin, and the like have kept me entertained since childhood.  There's nothing wrong, however, with hoping for something new and exciting - a new world with new themes to explore and new people to meet.

Personally, I was immensely grateful when Nintendo put their support behind efforts like GoldenEye and Eternal Darkness.  These offerings were a bit more "mature" (I hate to use that word, because of its ironically juvenile implications regarding mindless violence and gratuitous sexuality) than their standard fare, and filled a niche in the market (and in my game library) that was somewhat missing.  I like some intense, scary, and downright gritty games every once in a while, and I like hard-hitting, thematically complex epics any time I can get them (gritty or otherwise).

I want to know, however... am I in the actual minority of Nintendo fans regarding the kind of game I want to play on the new system?  What kind of game are you dying to see?  And if Nintendo were to come out with a totally new Intellectual Property, what kind of game would you be dreaming for?

I'm agreed about the NEW part of the new IP being essential. I like the Nintendo franchises - I really, really do - but I want to see something new; something that takes the Nintendo spark of ingenuity and completely refreshes a genre with a new world, a new set of characters, and a new vibe. They did it with Star Fox in the SNES days, and they did it with Pikmin in the GC days. In my (humble in the sense that no one really cares about it) opinion, it's time for a NEW franchise.

I would LOVE a horror game.

Me too, tbh... Apparently there's more interest in this than I thought, though thmajority of people still look to be interested in a Zelda-esque adventure or an rpg... Looks like nintendo actually knows their fan base very well!

I too would like to see a hack n slash or sandbox game from Nintendo

Yeah, this seems to be a big gap in Nintendo's franchise library... I'm not personally into the hack n slash genre, but I think it would be good for the system to have a solid entry or two for both genres. I LOVE sandbox games, and have also noticed a conspicuous lack of true open world games on the Wii. I think that big Nintendo fans would really eat up a good open world game.

Just to confirm, Golden Sun isn't Nintendo's IP.  It belongs to Camelot.

Thanks for the clarification... rereading it, it really does seem like I was implying that it was Nintendo's IP.  Incidentally, I had a hard time thinking of examples for some of these genres, even considering good 3rd party software (like Golden Sun)... Mario RPG has a strong fan base (so I guess I could have mentioned that, to stick with the theme), but I have to admit I just don't get it.  Fire Emblem and some of the classic FF releases are the best I could think of, but I went with Golden Sun because it has a modern look and is JUST... SO... GOOD!

Also, good point about the Mother series... that was some zany fun, and I'd love another installment.

Not that we don't enjoy the adventure or challenge of a Zelda or Mario game, but we also enjoy games what quite literally have mature themes (death, loss, morality).

Well stated... honestly, I had Gears in mind too as the kind of franchise that is gritty/violent without being facile.  This doesn't seem like Nintendo's cup of tea, but again, I've been surprised before.  Here's hoping!

What does IP stand for?

Ah, my bad... forgive the "jargon". IP stands for Intellectual Property (the easiest way I know to talk about a game concept, idea, world or set of characters that a studio has developed. IP could refer to anything from the contents of a speech to the postings on a webpage to the ideas that go into a patent... but some IP is actually protected by law, even if not protected by copyright).

A gritty RPG with mature characters could really give us something fresh and less predictable.

You know, I think you're really right about this. People tend to think of RPGs as either very cartoon-y (or at least very stylized), or as RPG-lite (like Mass Effect, which really doesn't deserve the word RPG appended to its action genre category, IMO). Even something like Monster Hunter is far more action game than RPG.

I would LOVE to see a gritty, brooding RPG with tons of atmosphere and deep character development. I think it could be awesome.

like "Disaster" with more (and more) third person action .. but not an open world game

MADWORLD and Conduit for Wiiu (no worry about NMH , but the other two?)

I'm right with you on the 3rd person action... and I don't think there's too much to worry about as far as the Conduit franchise goes. High Voltage has a great relationship with Nintendo, they like working with the company, and they're in the rare position of having a 3rd party exclusive franchise with a bit of a following on a Ninty system.

I am SO glad to see some other big Star Fox fans in here... as I have said elsewhere, I would love for Retro to get behind the wheel of this franchise (though I think a DK game is more likely, for the reasons mentioned above).

To answer some of the questions asked above about other franchises, I would DEFINITELY suggest playing Eternal Darkness if you are at all a fan of Puzzle/Adventure games with a scary twist. The game is definitely not for everyone (it's too slow for some and two horror-esque for others), but I think its story, its depth, and its atmosphere are some of the best in a Nintendo game. As for Metroid: Other M, I have to say that I am a fan. I am in the minority for liking this game, I know, but I think that it does actually preserve the core of the Metroid experience, while offering an interesting take on the standard Metroid gameplay. The script is pretty bad, I can't lie... it's melodramatic, overplayed, and it ruins a bit of Samus's mystique by making her incessantly reflective and overly sensitive... but the overal experience is a good one (cinematics and all), and I found myself happily replaying it on hard mode the day after I beat it.

Guys it is so bad, if its true..  That means also wii U will come without this special nintendo patent of blu ray disc? It will be discless? lol

Woah, calm down... he said that BOTH will be available.  They are introducing digital downloads (which is why he was talking about it so much, because it's new for them), but regular, hard-copy packaged games will still be available.  lol, I admire your ability to converse on a forum in your second (or third? how many do you speak?) language... it must give you a few scares every once in a while, though!

I think Apple did do SOME evil scheming.

lol... fair enough. I also really like the idea that Retro could be Nintendo's Pixar. I love their work so far... their history as a company just makes me worried that they're not really the same kind of miracle machine with the same kind of creative ethos as Pixar (and thus that their streak of brilliance may be more a fortunate fluke than a result of their creative excellence). Just a worry... I'm rooting for them nonetheless, and I hope they turn out to be the next big studio for the big N.

Yeah, I also have to cast my vote for the style featured in the demo. I really like the idea of taking a surrealist approach to the alternate dimension/world... but I must say that I prefer what has been called "realism" here to a more impressionistic or cell-shaded approach, for the main world at least.

I also have to wonder about Twilight Princess aging worse than other Zelda titles. Even OoT and Majora's Mask, some of the most enjoyable gaming experiences ever created, are ultimately - to me - consumable media. I have enjoyed replaying them from time to time... but they are not timeless masterpieces of art. I expect a game to capture me when I play it... but I also very much expect it to be of its time and for its time (and this is not a 'diss on the medium's potential as art... I just don't think we are quite there yet, and I don't think we need to be there to legitimize our interest).

Yeah... I don't think that Apple entering the console business was ever seriously being considered here. The very reason for the Apple's gaming success is the fact that it isn't a console... it's that very "casual-gaming" trend that has people worried in terms of market shift.

People like their interests to move around with them... and as we become a more and more impulsive culture, our interests shift more and more rapidly. We like to be moving, and when we're moving we like to choose between gaming, social networking, net surfing, movie watching, productivity planning (calendars and such), and music listening as the whim hits us. I am not particularly fond of this disposition, but it appears to be a cultural fact... it feels cumbersome to carry around my 3DS, when I know that all of my apps are on my ipod. When I am home, I am already starting to resent the fact that it takes so long to really fire up my console and get into a game, because I'm busy.

I like console gaming (as an experience) much, much better than the silly diversions available for iPod.... but I will buy and play ipod games, becaues they are cheap and they fit my lifestyle. It deserves to be mentioned that Apple never intended to make a gaming device... in fact, they seemed almost to be dragged into the business. They don't make games, and the "app" store, as has already been mentioned, was hardly designed for games. That Apple has become direct competition for Sony and Nintendo is due entirely to consumer demand, and not to Apple's evil scheming.

That being said, I'm not sure that handheld devices could ever truly replace consoles (at least not in the near future). There will always be the form factor to consider - the fact that people don't want a phone the size of a laptop, and that manufacturers can't fit cutting-edge hardware into a smartphone shell. As far as the experience goes, gamers will always prefer to have buttons (and sticks and triggers too, apparently!!!), and will always demand the kind of high production values that naturally result in enormous file sizes (bigger than you would want to store on a handheld device, or wait to download to one) and appreciable prices. YouTube hasn't yet killed Hollywood, and Apple won't kill Nintendo either. Hardcore gaming will always remain a separate market... though perhaps not as big a market as the trends of the late '90s and early '00s seemed to promise. Lots of people will have the itch scratched by mobile gaming and call it there... us hardcore gamers will always demand our boxes.

P.S. I also have thought about the whole Nintendo/Disney comparison... and I definitely think that Nintendo needs its Pixar.

it's true that the current trend seems to be devices that can "do it all" - and that makes sense to me.  It feels clunky to have to fire up a desktop computer when my ipad can really do most of what I want on a regular basis.  I think that Nintendo is right about the cost/benefit not being in their favor (with features such as DVD playback), but the perceived lack of functionality could really hurt them if they don't completely fill the niche of what their product CAN do.  When you have products on the market that can functionally serve as total media hubs, it's starting to look clunky to have a console that just "console"s.  I think that Nintendo will have to take full advantage of web/bluetooth/streaming functionality with this console... because people have just come to expect a lot of options from their electronic devices.

Yeah... I'm with TRON in his disappointment that Nintendo did not push for better tech. HOWEVER, I get Nintendo's reasoning for not doing so.

Cutting edge tech would make the system very pricey, and Nintendo knows that it can't push its luck with the market (especially after losing the confidence of so many gamers and developers with the Wii). Better tech means even longer development cycles for the developers that even bother to take advantage of the hardware (and many won't take advantage of it for many years), and even selling hardware at a huge loss, I doubt that many gamers are ready to pay the $600-$800 that Nintendo would have to sell the console for.

The cost/benefit curve just drops off so steeply after a certain point... it would be hard to maintain a solvent business model selling consoles that offer marginally better partical/lighting effects and reflection mapping than a PS3, but for more than twice the price. You and I might take the plunge, but I'm guessing (from the sales data on high-end graphics cards, if nothing else) that not many others will.

But the Dreamcast was more powerful than everything else at its time and easy to develop for, yet nobody flocked to it.

Too true... the hope for the Nintendo console has never been in its superior power.

It seems that the new system will be adequately powerful, and it is nice to have a system that is relatively up to par with the market... but the real question has always been about the games. Will Nintendo give us some real, quality 1st/2nd party titles (as well as new, exciting IPs), and will they adequately court quality 3rd party developers?

Second to this has to be the concern of the online functionality... Will they develop a substantial community network, and will the social buzz be attractive enough to establish a real, involved community of gamers?

I HAVE to think that the only reason you would choose Xbox over Nintendo if you had to choose would be because of these issues... am I right? Nintendo's hardware has always had impressive quality in terms of reliability and true control innovation (I, for one, would drop my Xbox in a second if there were anything worthwhile to play on my Nintendo systems). This reinforces to me that Nintendo really must put their focus on these areas...

There are a LOT of very reasonable responses to the original "worries" being posted here, so I won't waste everyone's time by reiterating. I would only add that Nintendo does, in fact, have to "worry" about about its competition... though certainly not, as others have so eloquently explained, because of the obvious fact that its tech will be somewhat "behind" them.

Nintendo's only real worry is the same as it always has been - to stay relevant to a market with decidedly Western tastes and a voracious appetite for social networking. Nintendo has been struggling for a while with these elements... and I think that it is ultimately this battle that will decide the "console war" for this next cycle. Can Nintendo make games that capture the Western imagination (which means some new IPs), and can they keep us connected in the way that we have come to expect from any/all of our electronic devices? I don't know... but I hope so.

It is more likely that Microsoft will release a new console first, but that is not going to be a "super-machine". It will probably be an upgrade of the 360; with Kinect built-in, more ram and use a bigger optical disc capacity. Anything "extra" is likely to be little more than "tweaks".

This seems likely to me, as well.... "elite" editions with some better individual parts (like storage or RAM) or new bundle options for the 360 would make more sense than a new console at a time when anything they could sell for less than $1000 would be only marginally more powerful than WiiU.

As far as the "worry", however... I wouldn't be worried even if MS or PS announced a new console at E32012. Why in the world would that be worrisome? If they want to try to force their install base to purchase a new piece of tech that offers them no real, new play experiences (other than, perhaps, a few more assets from current generation game engines), then good on them. Wii owners have a reason to upgrade, as do the owners of other consoles (due to the controller and the prospect of some truly great IPs in HD for the first time), but PS or MS owners really don't.

I'm glad someone brought up this topic!  I am personally a big "trophy hound" on Xbox... but I'm also clear-headed enough to admit that this seriously contradicts my stated love of immersion in story and love of gaming for gaming's sake.  The two loves are kind of parallel, but I find myself enjoying both pursuits almost equally.

I think that Nintendo should include an achievement system (even if it only tracks progress in the background, or only for online play), and I like the idea of using upgradeable medals with associated coin values.  Achievements serve a social networking function, if nothing else, and they provide a fun incentive for replaying the game far past its standard life (in this case... the more outlandish the requirements for the achievement, the better).  Playing games is fun, regardless of any "rewards" doled out for playing.  But everyone likes a little swag to pin on for bragging purposes, even if you're only bragging to yourself.  It's like tally marks on an airplane cockpit, or button-collecting at Disneyland...

Yeah, star fox 64 was the last great console star fox game, and it was entirely vehicle based. I could do without on foot missions. A return to the arwing is what the series needs to give it a shot in the arm.

Man, I'm just glad there's some fan interest in the series... tbh, I didn't play assault or adventures. the one in my mind is 64, and I just like the series in general.