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Reductio ad Dreamcast


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#1 KarlMarx1818

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 11:30 AM

There have been plenty of often well thought out debate about the future of the Wii U but can we just leave one thing out of the argument, the Dreamcast.

 

Like Reductio ad Hitlerum the habit of dropping in Dreamcast into the debate is an unhelpful fallacy. Yes Sega and Nintendo are similar companies but there are a couple of very large differences which make it unhelpful to mention the D-word.

 

The first and most simple is this. The Wii U is the Successor of the Wii which sold 100m units worldwide. The Dreamcast followed on from the Sega Saturn which sold 10m worldwide. Secondly Sega was going broke, Nintendo is not.

 

Beyond that you could included differences like nintendo's successful handheld platform and the continued critical and commercial success of Mario who has weathered the leap to 3d much better than poor old sonic. The 32x, Mega CD and Saturn and test the patience of developers and consumers alike and the Dreamcast was shelved in anticipation of the PS2 which was succeeded the hugely popular PS1. 

 

Ultimately the two machines will only ever be a like should Nintendo call it a day as a console manufacture. 



#2 Alph

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 11:33 AM

I wish the Dreamcast knew how much it is loved now back when it was released. :(


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#3 Alex Wolfers

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 11:41 AM

There have been plenty of often well thought out debate about the future of the Wii U but can we just leave one thing out of the argument, the Dreamcast.

 

Like Reductio ad Hitlerum the habit of dropping in Dreamcast into the debate is an unhelpful fallacy. Yes Sega and Nintendo are similar companies but there are a couple of very large differences which make it unhelpful to mention the D-word.

 

The first and most simple is this. The Wii U is the Successor of the Wii which sold 100m units worldwide. The Dreamcast followed on from the Sega Saturn which sold 10m worldwide. Secondly Sega was going broke, Nintendo is not.

 

Beyond that you could included differences like nintendo's successful handheld platform and the continued critical and commercial success of Mario who has weathered the leap to 3d much better than poor old sonic. The 32x, Mega CD and Saturn and test the patience of developers and consumers alike and the Dreamcast was shelved in anticipation of the PS2 which was succeeded the hugely popular PS1. 

 

Ultimately the two machines will only ever be a like should Nintendo call it a day as a console manufacture. 

No just no. Nintendo is not going third party anytime soon. If anything Nintendo is a smart company that fixes their mistakes unlike Sega. The only way I could compare the two is they have excellent IPs in the realm of fantasy. Segas main problem is they made their consoles laden with perephrials and add-ons. Plus Sega had a horrible financial department which didn't help. I must add another thing, Sgea was aslo famous for killing their beloved IPs or disregarding them (with the exception of Sonic. If anyone is smart ATM it's Nintendo for not implementing extra fees and actually allowing you to play used games.


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#4 routerbad

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 11:43 AM

No just no. Nintendo is not going third party anytime soon. If anything Nintendo is a smart company that fixes their mistakes unlike Sega. The only way I could compare the two is they have excellent IPs in the realm of fantasy. Segas main problem is they made their consoles laden with perephrials and add-ons. Plus Sega had a horrible financial department which didn't help. I must add another thing, Sgea was aslo famous for killing their beloved IPs or disregarding them (with the exception of Sonic. If anyone is smart ATM it's Nintendo for not implementing extra fees and actually allowing you to play used games.

Nintendo systems are also typically laden with peripherals, to be fair.



#5 Alex Wolfers

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 11:45 AM

Nintendo systems are also typically laden with peripherals, to be fair.

But not like the Genesis was with the 32X and the Sega CD. Also note the Genesis was Sega's last succesful system.


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#6 Zonark

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 11:51 AM

I have four Dreamcast now just so I can play phantasy star online between them

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#7 routerbad

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 11:52 AM

But not like the Genesis was with the 32X and the Sega CD. Also note the Genesis was Sega's last succesful system.

True.



#8 Zonark

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 11:54 AM

And why does everyone think the original Wii was a failure? It wasn't it sold more console then any of the other systems

Nintendo is like apple and is sitting on a hefty bank account

#9 Ghost

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 11:59 AM

No just no. Nintendo is not going third party anytime soon. If anything Nintendo is a smart company that fixes their mistakes unlike Sega. The only way I could compare the two is they have excellent IPs in the realm of fantasy. Segas main problem is they made their consoles laden with perephrials and add-ons. Plus Sega had a horrible financial department which didn't help. I must add another thing, Sgea was aslo famous for killing their beloved IPs or disregarding them (with the exception of Sonic. If anyone is smart ATM it's Nintendo for not implementing extra fees and actually allowing you to play used games.

I know you may not like this but I think Nintendo should third party some of their lesser tittles to multiplatforms like Star Fox, Kid and Brain Age series. These could bring in extra cash while the Big ones like Mario, Donkey Kong, FE series and Pokemon hit the front-lines. Also this can push a PS4/Xbox 3 user to buy a WII U on the side for the remaining exclusives. 



And why does everyone think the original Wii was a failure? It wasn't it sold more console then any of the other systems

Nintendo is like apple and is sitting on a hefty bank account

Wii= People think "If you brought a Wii, you must be in the stonge age".

PS3/Xbox360/Min Spec-High Grade PC= "We are Gods as we have the best games in town".



#10 Tricky Sonic

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 12:13 PM

I wouldn't akin to the Wii U to the DC......before I get started...and people yell biased...I'm a huge Sega fanboy and the Dreamcast is my most favorite console of all time....now that thats out of the way lol. The Wii U right now I would say is suffering from the Saturn Syndrome...aka non existent marketing. The Dreamcast did a lot of right things, but they had a hard time regaining gamers lost to Sony.  Given time I believe the casual market will come around to upgrading from the Wii to the Wii U and when we get more good exclusives and 3rd party support..more core gamers will come over.....but Nintendo needs to advertise this. We don't see 1/3rd of the advertising for the Wii U that the Wii saw. Nintendo won't go 3rd party anytime soon, especially since comments were made on both the 3DS and Wii U successors already in development. They have money - Sega did not which was part of why the DC left the world pre-maturely. 


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#11 Alianjaro

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 08:12 PM

Humans have a strong survival instinct. If anything, Nintendo shows it really well. It has crushed the competitors back in the days, and it's still making profit today. Really, if the competitors were only console gaming companies, they would've died already, but you guys know that Sony and Microsoft have the mights to stay alive...


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#12 KarlMarx1818

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 10:09 AM

So can we just let off a large air horn if anyone compares the Wii U to the Dreamcast.

 

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#13 Goodtwin

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 11:24 AM

The Dreamcast failed because of Sega's financial situation, and not because it was a bad console.  In many ways, the Dreamcast was way ahead of its time.  It was doing online gaming, it had a screen in the controller, and back in 1999 it was an amazing peice of tech for $199.  The Wii U has a lot in common with the Dreamcast, but what doomed the Dreamcast is not possible since Nintendo has over 10 billion dollars in the bank. 



#14 Auzzie Wingman

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 07:16 PM

So instead of making a topic that aimed at keeping the Dreamcast being used as an example in Wii U discussions, you made a thread where we can all reminisce on the downfall of SEGA.

 

YAY!


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#15 Desert Punk

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 04:13 AM

Sony did a number on the Dreamcast making the PS2 sound incredibly more powerful than the Dreamcast and making it seem like there is no buying a Dreamcast when the PS2 would be released soon. It worked really well. The PS2 while more powerful wasn't more powerful in all areas and was much weaker in some. The PS2 went on to sell 150 million consoles, far above wii even and 1.5 billion games! I was one of those stupid enough to ignore the Dreamcast and only bought one when they were £40 and the games were selling sometimes as low as £1!. It was amazing and games like Shenmue were truly stunning and state of the art for the time.

 

I guess it is possible that many people realise the wii u isn't as powerful as it should be and are waiting for the PS4 and Xbox 720 instead. In that way it could be like the Dreamcast. Many have been disappointed with the wii and don't use it that much. That could also be labelled at the Saturn but of course the Saturn was unpopular and hugely expensive to make. The wii was/is a good seller that is hugely profitable as its based on old technology even when launched.

 

Sega really went for it with regard software. A huge number of brilliant Sega games for the Dreamcast. Nintendo haven't really done the same with the wii u.

 

Sega sadly are still a bit of a disaster. The Aliens game looks like they have been outright conned with the developer taking the money for development and releasing a rushed, weak game with little money spent on it. I think its more likely Sega will disappear completely before Nintendo go third party.

 

As previously stated its clear the wii u is cheap to make. There is no hard drive, the gamepad only has a very low cost resistive screen. It looks more impressive than the underlying cost of the hardware underneath. If PS4 and Xbox 720 sell well, Nintendo will position the wii u at a lower price and probably still make more money per unit than the new Sony and Microsoft offerings. There is nothing expensive about teh wii u. It is extremely likely it costs less to make than the 360 or PS3 models that feature hard drives.

 

Nintendo cleverly cost their hardware low so they have room to move at retail. If they can sell at high prices Nintendo make huge profits but if they have to cut retail prices they are still profitable.

 

Also although the pricing is currently too high the Nintendo brand is very parent friendly. Maybe this Christmas there will be a bundle of wii u and super mario bros for £199 and it will be a huge seller. The PS4 is likely going to be £299 for the minimum spec model with a small hard drive. 

 

Nintendo have and tried and failed to sell weak hardware at high prices at launch with little software this doesn't mean the same hardware won't sell with a price cut and a much wider range of software later on. I was frankly amazed that Nintendo tried to sell the basic wii u at more than £200 in the UK. Totally unjustified. I bought a wii u premium because I'm a gaming fanatic who loves Nintendo games but there isn't enough of people like me around to make a successful launch.






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