50 replies to this topic

[Nintyfan86]

This can get tiring. Maybe I should copy paste a generic response to these type of posts.

[/sarcasm]

Anyway, I digress. You cherry picked PS3, so let me do a little cherry picking of my own.

I remember when the 360 came out people harped on Rare's PD Zero for looking not much better than original Xbox. That nothing at launch showed the system and what it can do. So I guess the 360 was doomed, and it isn't capable of running games like Gears of Wars, Halo 3 & 4, Assassin Creed III and Watch Fogs, right?

Look, every generation we have that one game for a console that really shows what games will look like. Gears of Wars was that game last generation. That was a YEAR after the 360 launched. How long has the Wii U been out?

Look, this is just ludicrous that people expect end of generation level graphics at the start. With the PS4. and X1, it's possible only because developers know the hardware. But with Wii U they have to learn it's strength and weaknesses, and it's very clear listening to developers that the Wii U does better when you use it's features instead of trying to use what worked on past consoles.

[/End of Rant]

In addition, we have the ROI factor. The budgets on these games are enormous, so much so that a publicly traded company (or any company for that matter) is concerned with getting the product running, and taking advantage of the gamepad. 

 

With 2.5 million users or so (2012), and a lower attach rate, the incentive is not really there to pour resources into optimization. Re:R is a good example of a compromise. A 360/PS3 port that takes advantage of the Wii U's unique features. Sniper V2, from what little I played, appears to run well, but seems like an attempt to cash in before more competition enters the market. 

 

Now, with the Xbone and PS4 imminent, with the same architectural design (GPGPU), we should see down ports of those versions. I hope we do at least (in the case of Watchdogs and Drive especially). In this instance, it makes less sense to port the 360/PS3 versions unless no other resources (marketing, DLC) are used for the Wii U version. 

 

I presumed, from rumors of the quad core PPC and 4850 that the Wii U was a souped up 360 from an architectural standpoint, or roughly a 1080p PC from 2008-9. Given what we are seeing, I am wondering how Nintendo thought launching early was possibly a good idea, considering that the summer update appears to bring things closer to a final version for consumers, and more mature tools are emerging for developers. 

 

Great thread guys, very enjoyable reading! 

[NintendoReport]

As has already been stated, Nintendo Land is pulling off effects that are downright impossible on last generation hardware, as well as effects that were absolutely unfeasible given the performance limitations.  Not only that, its doing it on two separate screens, at the same time, from completely different viewpoints, with nary a hiccup in sight.

 

What you are looking for is not a great looking game, you are looking for a great looking photorealistic game, that shows advances over the previous two HD twins.  It will come in the form of Watch_Dogs, Splinter Cell, and other games running on brand new engines.

 

It will also happen with Retro's title, whatever it ends up being.  For now, we have great looking games that are simply ports from other systems and then we have exclusives like NanoAssault, which is amazing looking, NFS, which was able to do things the PS360 versions were not, Trine2, which is a PC port rather than a console port because it was able to handle the game better.

 

The proof is right there in front of you, you just aren't willing to look at it and accept it for what it is.

 

This should be printed and distributed via a military airborne leaflet drop.

[Foot]

I think we all always knew that it was powerful and most Devs just don't know how to tailor its potential.

I personally believe that because its core components are very similar in architecture to the 360, that their developing on it the same way. They don't realize that if the work further into, then there is MUCH more that they can do with the hardware.

[tboss]

so the wiiU is kinda of like the PS3 complex CPU/GPU. were it is hard to master but if mastered you can get some very good games?

 

i understand last gen engines not working, and expect ninty to have the first next gen looking engine on wiiU, but other than that, its just different?

[Foot]

so the wiiU is kinda of like the PS3 complex CPU/GPU. were it is hard to master but if mastered you can get some very good games?
 
i understand last gen engines not working, and expect ninty to have the first next gen looking engine on wiiU, but other than that, its just different?

Trust me, it's not as complex as the cell cpu, lol, the GPGPU is probably the hardest for the Devs, because of its extra processing, along with the High eDRAM cache

[DexterousGecko]

As has already been stated, Nintendo Land is pulling off effects that are downright impossible on last generation hardware, as well as effects that were absolutely unfeasible given the performance limitations.  Not only that, its doing it on two separate screens, at the same time, from completely different viewpoints, with nary a hiccup in sight.

lol, you made my day ^^ Nintendo Land

[Alex Wolfers]

lol, you made my day ^^ Nintendo Land

Whats so funny? 

[MorbidGod]

prove me wrong friend, prove me wrong. I'll be waiting come the year anniversary to see Wii U's Gears of Wars that blows the ps360 era out of the water.

You mean a Gears of Wars type of title? I didn't mean Gears of Wars will be released for Wii U.

But I am positive we'll see sone marvelous footage at E3, especially if UbiSoft Shows Wii U Watch Dog footage.

did you spell doom with zeroes? and doom? no, I just don't like websites claiming that something with no proof at all. In this case that the Wii U is leaps and bounds ahead of the ps360. If I saw an article that said that the xbox one was going to be the best thing to happen to gaming, I would have issues with that as well. You mistake disliking fanboyism for negativity. I have no doubt the Wii U will do fine.

And I just have an issue with expecting something from Nintendo that hasn't ever happened in console gaming in a long time. This isn't like a jump from 2D TO 3D. This isn't like from SD TO HD. This generation will be smaller leaps in graphics. That's all I'm saying.

In addition, we have the ROI factor. The budgets on these games are enormous, so much so that a publicly traded company (or any company for that matter) is concerned with getting the product running, and taking advantage of the gamepad.

With 2.5 million users or so (2012), and a lower attach rate, the incentive is not really there to pour resources into optimization. Re:R is a good example of a compromise. A 360/PS3 port that takes advantage of the Wii U's unique features. Sniper V2, from what little I played, appears to run well, but seems like an attempt to cash in before more competition enters the market.

Now, with the Xbone and PS4 imminent, with the same architectural design (GPGPU), we should see down ports of those versions. I hope we do at least (in the case of Watchdogs and Drive especially). In this instance, it makes less sense to port the 360/PS3 versions unless no other resources (marketing, DLC) are used for the Wii U version.

I presumed, from rumors of the quad core PPC and 4850 that the Wii U was a souped up 360 from an architectural standpoint, or roughly a 1080p PC from 2008-9. Given what we are seeing, I am wondering how Nintendo thought launching early was possibly a good idea, considering that the summer update appears to bring things closer to a final version for consumers, and more mature tools are emerging for developers.

Great thread guys, very enjoyable reading!

Nintendo wanted a head start. Unfortunately, they didn't capitalize on it. Good thing, because the fact the hardware was still being developed last year means they were addind features they needed. But it also makes it hard to develop for.

If I were a developer, I'd make for Wii U, and then port that way. It makes the most sense because it's easier to move up then it is to down grade.

[Julio93]

I never noticed Nano Assault looked very pretty.

[Nintyfan86]

You mean a Gears of Wars type of title? I didn't mean Gears of Wars will be released for Wii U.
But I am positive we'll see sone marvelous footage at E3, especially if UbiSoft Shows Wii U Watch Dog footage.

And I just have an issue with expecting something from Nintendo that hasn't ever happened in console gaming in a long time. This isn't like a jump from 2D TO 3D. This isn't like from SD TO HD. This generation will be smaller leaps in graphics. That's all I'm saying.

Nintendo wanted a head start. Unfortunately, they didn't capitalize on it. Good thing, because the fact the hardware was still being developed last year means they were addind features they needed. But it also makes it hard to develop for.
If I were a developer, I'd make for Wii U, and then port that way. It makes the most sense because it's easier to move up then it is to down grade.

That seems to be the most logical, yet it appears as though there is either an established engine on another platform, or the game already exists on another platform.

I hope if Watchdogs is Wii U/360/PS3, that Wii U is lead. Otherwise, I hope the rumors are true and the game is ported from the PS4 to see how comparable the machine is.

[MorbidGod]

That seems to be the most logical, yet it appears as though there is either an established engine on another platform, or the game already exists on another platform.

I hope if Watchdogs is Wii U/360/PS3, that Wii U is lead. Otherwise, I hope the rumors are true and the game is ported from the PS4 to see how comparable the machine is.

They are developing the next Gen together. It's not ported from PS3 and 360.

[Socalmuscle]

That seems to be the most logical, yet it appears as though there is either an established engine on another platform, or the game already exists on another platform.

I hope if Watchdogs is Wii U/360/PS3, that Wii U is lead. Otherwise, I hope the rumors are true and the game is ported from the PS4 to see how comparable the machine is.

The wii u version of the game started along with ps4.

360 and ps3 started later.

The wii u version will likely use PC/ps4 assets and vice versa.

And this is to be expected of most games as the new generation continues with new consoles entering the market.

[routerbad]

That seems to be the most logical, yet it appears as though there is either an established engine on another platform, or the game already exists on another platform.

I hope if Watchdogs is Wii U/360/PS3, that Wii U is lead. Otherwise, I hope the rumors are true and the game is ported from the PS4 to see how comparable the machine is.

We already know it won't be.  They are using two separate teams to develop the x86 and PowerISA versions of the game.  The team that is making the Wii U version will downport to PS360, the other team will make it for PS4 and XBone

[Nintyfan86]

We already know it won't be.  They are using two separate teams to develop the x86 and PowerISA versions of the game.  The team that is making the Wii U version will downport to PS360, the other team will make it for PS4 and XBone

  

The wii u version of the game started along with ps4.
360 and ps3 started later.
The wii u version will likely use PC/ps4 assets and vice versa.
And this is to be expected of most games as the new generation continues with new consoles entering the market.

  

They are developing the next Gen together. It's not ported from PS3 and 360.

I hope it turns out really good. Without specific screens, and an influx of GAF rumors, one can get a little concerned that the Wii U version would be on a completely different level. Then again, the GAF group presumes the PS4 will be ultra efficient, and the Jaguar cores will all be available to games. Oh, and that the cores are fast, lol.

[routerbad]

    I hope it turns out really good. Without specific screens, and an influx of GAF rumors, one can get a little concerned that the Wii U version would be on a completely different level. Then again, the GAF group presumes the PS4 will be ultra efficient, and the Jaguar cores will all be available to games. Oh, and that the cores are fast, lol.

Very, VERY few GAF members have a grasp on what the Jaguar cores are actually capable of, these are the same people that thought that a low clocked chip with high IPC and efficiency couldn't exist precisely until the PS4 clocks were announced.

[TheDoritoKing]

So what I gather from this is that the Wii U can go neck-and-neck with the Xbox One and PlayStation 4 if developers use the hardware effectively, but will look worse than a seventh-gen console if you just shove code at it without caring. This actually reminds me of the Sega Saturn: perfectly capable of doing what its competitors do, but the unique architecture is difficult to master. It is nice to know that the Wii U is a beefy machine after all (especially considering the [comparatively] low price). 

[MorbidGod]

We already know it won't be. They are using two separate teams to develop the x86 and PowerISA versions of the game. The team that is making the Wii U version will downport to PS360, the other team will make it for PS4 and XBone

I actually didn't know that. Where did you hear that?

I hope it turns out really good. Without specific screens, and an influx of GAF rumors, one can get a little concerned that the Wii U version would be on a completely different level. Then again, the GAF group presumes the PS4 will be ultra efficient, and the Jaguar cores will all be available to games. Oh, and that the cores are fast, lol.

Just Google AMD Jaguar performance. You'll see that they aren't super fast, and they aren't anything to brag home about.

AMD is very good at making GPU'S. They are known for budget CPU's. I bet the reason MS and Sony choose them over Intel isn't because of performance, but price.

AMD went after console market hard because they need money. This guarantee that they have cash coming in.

[Socalmuscle]

So what I gather from this is that the Wii U can go neck-and-neck with the Xbox One and PlayStation 4 if developers use the hardware effectively, but will look worse than a seventh-gen console if you just shove code at it without caring. This actually reminds me of the Sega Saturn: perfectly capable of doing what its competitors do, but the unique architecture is difficult to master. It is nice to know that the Wii U is a beefy machine after all (especially considering the [comparatively] low price).

Consider if you shoved code for the wii u architecture Into the 360. It probably wouldn't run at all.

We are talking fundamental architectural differences. You'd have to really rework the code for x1 and ps4 as well.

And no wii u ports of old games look worse, no matter how poorly the port was done. Not that I've seen anyway.

I don't know if the wii u will be neck and neck with the ps4, but it will be very competitive. Many games will likely look the same on both systems. The wii u will likely have more loading times due to the ram amount, but the processing is excellent and the ram layout very efficient.

I actually didn't know that. Where did you hear that?

Just Google AMD Jaguar performance. You'll see that they aren't super fast, and they aren't anything to brag home about.
AMD is very good at making GPU'S. They are known for budget CPU's. I bet the reason MS and Sony choose them over Intel isn't because of performance, but price.
AMD went after console market hard because they need money. This guarantee that they have cash coming in.

Jaguars kinda suck actually. But that's why there are 8 of them. Lol

I'm sure both companies would have loved to go power or intel, but amd likely gave them a sweet deal to go apu.

[Cloud Windfoot Omega]

Consider if you shoved code for the wii u architecture Into the 360. It probably wouldn't run at all.

We are talking fundamental architectural differences. You'd have to really rework the code for x1 and ps4 as well.

And no wii u ports of old games look worse, no matter how poorly the port was done. Not that I've seen anyway.

I don't know if the wii u will be neck and neck with the ps4, but it will be very competitive. Many games will likely look the same on both systems. The wii u will likely have more loading times due to the ram amount, but the processing is excellent and the ram layout very efficient.



Jaguars kinda suck actually. But that's why there are 8 of them. Lol

I'm sure both companies would have loved to go power or intel, but amd likely gave them a sweet deal to go apu.

... well  no one wanted to go Nvidia, so that would rule out intel anyway.

 

plus in my  experience,  intel plays rough.

Edited by Cloud Windfoot Omega, 30 May 2013 - 08:21 PM.

[Socalmuscle]

... well  no one wanted to go Nvidia, so that would rule out intel anyway.
 
plus in my  experience,  intel plays rough.

Not really. Intel chips work with amd GPu.

And amd works fine with power too.

I'm guessing that nvidia was just too expensive. And so was intel.