65 replies to this topic

[Happy Monk]

But i think you're wrong.



Jkjk. I am excited about DK. I just would be more happy to have a new Metroid. That said, this simply means that when metroid does come the graphics will be that much better as it won't be new console territory. I spoke hastily when i said that and i whole heartedly take it back
DK had been around even longer than Mario (technically) and ours great to see all the love he's getting.

Either way is good, but Metroid can be made by another studio, like Other M. And all Metroid games before Metroid Prime (Fusion as well).

[routerbad]

I think Retro is working on more than one project, i mean would they really hire guys from Naughty Dog and Crytek...Just for Donkey Kong?

And not only that, they've also moved into a new building recently.

This exactly.  We know they are working on an engine, and it is not the engine powering Donkey Kong.  They have over 110 people in their employ, and it doesn't take 110 people three years to build a 2D platformer.

 

On why they decided to reveal Donkey Kong first.  Donkey Kong is a better seller than Metroid, hands down.  It would have been wonderful fan service to reveal a Metroid, but it undoubtedly would not have sold as well as DK.  I still don't think their other project is Metroid, I think it is either a revival of the Raven Blade project, or a revival of an older Nintendo franchise.  

[Guy Fieri]

I'm glad they went with DKC, as I enjoy it more than the Metroid games (I've played some Prime on GC, it was okay, but not enough for a full judgement). But I heard this thought from someone. Retro made 3 Metroid Prime games before moving on to another series (Donkey Kong). So they made DKCR, and gave it a sequel. Then people are all disappointed that DKC got a sequel, when the Prime series got 2 sequels on GC and Wii.. Yet I don't think anyone was disappointed with the 2 Metroid sequels instead of moving onto another series. But this was just because people hyped up Retro's new game as something like Metroid, a series reboot, or a new IP. So seeing Donkey Kong, drastically different than what people expected, they were (understandably) disappointed.

Edited by Firejonie, 18 June 2013 - 11:16 AM.

[Socalmuscle]

Nobody was sad that dk is on wii u. It's a good thing.

What made people sad is the idea that we got dk at the EXPENSE of a metroid game.

And metroid is the exact game Nintendo needs on the wii u right NOW.

Not a year or two out.

Edited by Socalmuscle, 19 June 2013 - 10:27 PM.

[MorbidGod]

Nobody was sad that dk is on wii u. It's a good thing.

What made people sad is the idea that we got dk at the EXPENSE of a metroid game.

And metroid is the exact game Nintendo needs on the wii u right NOW.

Not a year or two out.

Nintendo might need it for perception, but they don't need it for sales. And sadly, Nintendo needs sales more than perception.

[routerbad]

Nintendo might need it for perception, but they don't need it for sales. And sadly, Nintendo needs sales more than perception.

Agreed.  I wish they had announced both, though I still firmly believe that Retro has another title in the works.  I can't believe that a team of 15 people can pull together the demo of Shadow of the Eternals, but it takes 110 people or more with plenty of HD era experience to make a 2D platformer with flowy hair or rotating camera angles.

[Goom]

Agreed.  I wish they had announced both, though I still firmly believe that Retro has another title in the works.  I can't believe that a team of 15 people can pull together the demo of Shadow of the Eternals, but it takes 110 people or more with plenty of HD era experience to make a 2D platformer with flowy hair or rotating camera angles.

 

 

Retro Studios did state that they only work on one big project at a time. DKCTF is their one big project.

[routerbad]

Retro Studios did state that they only work on one big project at a time. DKCTF is their one big project.

Just like everywhere else in Nintendo, they are never only working on one thing at a time, there are always other things going on.  Retro is supposed to be building an engine as well.

[MorbidGod]

Agreed. I wish they had announced both, though I still firmly believe that Retro has another title in the works. I can't believe that a team of 15 people can pull together the demo of Shadow of the Eternals, but it takes 110 people or more with plenty of HD era experience to make a 2D platformer with flowy hair or rotating camera angles.

It takes 100 people actually. Lol jk. I don't know about another project. Who knows? Retro does!

[Socalmuscle]

Nintendo might need it for perception, but they don't need it for sales. And sadly, Nintendo needs sales more than perception.

 

I respectfully disagree.

 

Nintendo is not making sales due to poor perception (Iwata acknowledges this many times). People don't see the value.

 

Therefore, they need to correct perception right now. DK is never going to do that.

 

Many (wrongly) perceive the Wii U as "underpowered," as lacking any real reason for being, as something less than next gen, as something that is only suited for glorified 3DS games.

 

DK only reinforced that perception, whereas Metroid would have helped X and Bayonetta with letting the "hardcore" group feel great about getting a wii U.

 

And Nintendo would have increased their target audience.  DK, Mario, Mario again, Rayman, etc., is only making similar genre's seem downright diluted.  Nintendo is drowning Wii U gamers in platformers.

 

There are enough of them. DK would do better to come out Christmas 2014.

 

The Wii U NEEDS, NEEDS a big monster action/adventure game. X has the Zelda/final fantasyesque action RPG category down, Bayonetta has the weird/creepy/action/fighter thing down, but we need an FPS style action game. Pronto.

 

Seeing Killzone, COD, etc. on these other systems only exacerbated the point.  The only way it's OK for their to not be a Metroid yet is if Nintendo knew that Destiny is coming to Wii U.

 

Otherwise...

[routerbad]

It takes 100 people actually. Lol jk. I don't know about another project. Who knows? Retro does!

Indeed

[MorbidGod]

I respectfully disagree.

Nintendo is not making sales due to poor perception (Iwata acknowledges this many times). People don't see the value.

Therefore, they need to correct perception right now. DK is never going to do that.

Many (wrongly) perceive the Wii U as "underpowered," as lacking any real reason for being, as something less than next gen, as something that is only suited for glorified 3DS games.

DK only reinforced that perception, whereas Metroid would have helped X and Bayonetta with letting the "hardcore" group feel great about getting a wii U.

And Nintendo would have increased their target audience. DK, Mario, Mario again, Rayman, etc., is only making similar genre's seem downright diluted. Nintendo is drowning Wii U gamers in platformers.

There are enough of them. DK would do better to come out Christmas 2014.

The Wii U NEEDS, NEEDS a big monster action/adventure game. X has the Zelda/final fantasyesque action RPG category down, Bayonetta has the weird/creepy/action/fighter thing down, but we need an FPS style action game. Pronto.

Seeing Killzone, COD, etc. on these other systems only exacerbated the point. The only way it's OK for their to not be a Metroid yet is if Nintendo knew that Destiny is coming to Wii U.

Otherwise...

DK for Wii sold over 5 million units. Not even one Prime game sold that much. Sorry, Nintendo needs to sell games. They need more Wii U's sold. DK, Sonic, Mario Kart, Pikman 3, SSB4 will do that. People don't see value because there aren't games. Sales dipped only when games stopped being released. Nintendo dropped the ball on the game front.

But it having a perception of a powerful system, but doesn't have tons of games who can and do sell 2m+ units is a problem.

[Socalmuscle]

DK for Wii sold over 5 million units. Not even one Prime game sold that much. Sorry, Nintendo needs to sell games. They need more Wii U's sold. DK, Sonic, Mario Kart, Pikman 3, SSB4 will do that. People don't see value because there aren't games. Sales dipped only when games stopped being released. Nintendo dropped the ball on the game front.
But it having a perception of a powerful system, but doesn't have tons of games who can and do sell 2m+ units is a problem.

Like I said. I'll respectfully disagree c
Sales is understood. So is perception.

The wiibu needs mindshare.

It needs "halo" games. The kind that make you take notice.

Donkey kong is fine. Metroid would be better.

This is a new gen. And the wii u has higher expectations to live up to.

My point was that perception will create purchase intent. Games create perception.

Dk reinforces the kiddy perception.

Metroid will enforce a hardcore perception.

Yes dk will sell.

But metroid is perfect for the next gen experience that everyone is clamor inch for. It would excite gamers, quiet critics, and give Nintendo something to really showcase.

In terms of marketing and in terms of a viable game, metroid would have been the best choice.

Dk will sell.

But it's an over saturated genre on wii u right now.

Hopefully dk moves enough systems to help things out. But I can't help the feeling that Nintendo misread the market this time.

Edited by Socalmuscle, 20 June 2013 - 10:12 PM.

[3Dude]

I'm glad they went with DKC, as I enjoy it more than the Metroid games (I've played some Prime on GC, it was okay, but not enough for a full judgement). But I heard this thought from someone. Retro made 3 Metroid Prime games before moving on to another series (Donkey Kong). So they made DKCR, and gave it a sequel. Then people are all disappointed that DKC got a sequel, when the Prime series got 2 sequels on GC and Wii.. Yet I don't think anyone was disappointed with the 2 Metroid sequels instead of moving onto another series. But this was just because people hyped up Retro's new game as something like Metroid, a series reboot, or a new IP. So seeing Donkey Kong, drastically different than what people expected, they were (understandably) disappointed.

Thats because those people arent thinking about individual franchises, they are thinking about entries in their favourite genre, which happens to only get 1 or 2 entries in an entire generation.

How many quality 2d platformers can you get right now, or in the immediate future, on current nintendo hardware?

Wii u:
Nsmbu
NsLu
Rayman
Dkcr2

3ds:
dkcr 3d
nsmb2
epic micky
rayman origins
msf 1 and 2
mutant mudds

There are many, many more, these are just the ones i have/know are pretty good.

How many metroidvania exploration adventure games?

0

The reason the metroid franchise keeps being brought up is not just because its retro. Its because metrod is the only franchise left in its entire genre that still makes releases. Other franchises never successfully made the leap to 3d (castlevania metroidvania) or changed genres (castlevania again, or the shock series).

For people who want dkcr, for them all theyd be missing out on is a platformer with a monkey theme. Theyd have to choose another game out of dozens for the genre they wanted to play.

For us, its our entire genre. There ARE no other games to play in the genre. And now, there are none being made.

[Hunter]

For people who want dkcr, for them all theyd be missing out on is a platformer with a monkey theme. Theyd have to choose another game out of dozens for the genre they wanted to play.

 

DKC is in a league of it's own as a platformer imo. It's not the same as rayman but with a "monkey theme".

[3Dude]

DKC is in a league of it's own as a platformer imo. It's not the same as rayman but with a "monkey theme".

Yes, it is, because the context and parameters I am using are 'the 2d sidescroller genre' and you are sidestepping the point. especially when you consider my genre has NO entries in ANY leagues.

Donky kong could have very easily replaced one of the many 2d platformers, on or coming up, Dk fans would be happy and no one else would have cared or even noticed because that genre is chock full of quality titles.

Metroid would have been, (and probably will be whenever it does come) The only entry in its entire genre.

Its not comparable.

[MorbidGod]

Like I said. I'll respectfully disagree c
Sales is understood. So is perception.

The wiibu needs mindshare.

It needs "halo" games. The kind that make you take notice.

Donkey kong is fine. Metroid would be better.

This is a new gen. And the wii u has higher expectations to live up to.

My point was that perception will create purchase intent. Games create perception.

Dk reinforces the kiddy perception.

Metroid will enforce a hardcore perception.

Yes dk will sell.

But metroid is perfect for the next gen experience that everyone is clamor inch for. It would excite gamers, quiet critics, and give Nintendo something to really showcase.

In terms of marketing and in terms of a viable game, metroid would have been the best choice.

Dk will sell.

But it's an over saturated genre on wii u right now.

Hopefully dk moves enough systems to help things out. But I can't help the feeling that Nintendo misread the market this time.

I know you respectively disagree I like to debate that's all!

However, perception doesn't help sales. If only 1.5 million people like Metroid enough to buy it, it's not going to help move enough Wii U's.

People aren't going to say "Oh, Nintendo is hardcore. They have a new Metroid game. I should buy that system now." Even if some do, only less than 2 million will.

Donkey Kong sold over five million units. Mario 3D Land sold better than the first Galaxy at the 13 month mark. Mario Kart will also help push more sales next month. Pikman 3 is probably the only game that isn't a huge system seller, but we'll see.

And remember. Nintendo had had FOUR 3D METROID games. That didn't help Nintendo's perception.

EA isn't saying Nintendo needs more games like Metroid. Neither is Ubisoft. They are saying Nintendo needs to sell units.

I agree Nintendo needs to make strides to show they support gamers. Hard core gamers. However, to do that they need people to buy the Wii U. They can't help us if they don't have customers.

[Socalmuscle]

I know you respectively disagree I like to debate that's all!

However, perception doesn't help sales. If only 1.5 million people like Metroid enough to buy it, it's not going to help move enough Wii U's.

People aren't going to say "Oh, Nintendo is hardcore. They have a new Metroid game. I should buy that system now." Even if some do, only less than 2 million will.

Donkey Kong sold over five million units. Mario 3D Land sold better than the first Galaxy at the 13 month mark. Mario Kart will also help push more sales next month. Pikman 3 is probably the only game that isn't a huge system seller, but we'll see.

And remember. Nintendo had had FOUR 3D METROID games. That didn't help Nintendo's perception.

EA isn't saying Nintendo needs more games like Metroid. Neither is Ubisoft. They are saying Nintendo needs to sell units.

I agree Nintendo needs to make strides to show they support gamers. Hard core gamers. However, to do that they need people to buy the Wii U. They can't help us if they don't have customers.

 

I'd say it's helped PS4 preorders fairly well.

 

By "halo" game, I mean something that is of extremely high standards and will get people talking.  That spills over to the rest of the systems merits in peoples minds. Kind of like the Corvette and Chevrolet, the GT and Ford, etc.

 

Metroid may not sell like DK, but it will get interest in the system as a whole flowing outside of those who already have made up their pro-Nintendo minds. That, in turn, will help sell units.

 

People want to feel like they are getting something for their money.  with DK, Mario, and Mario again (and that Luigi thing), then Rayman, it's more like people are getting overstuffed on the same old thing again and again.

 

I've read your posts here and enjoyed them.

 

We will just agree to disagree on this minute point.

 

Debate is fun though.  On that I do agree. LOL

[MorbidGod]

I'd say it's helped PS4 preorders fairly well.

By "halo" game, I mean something that is of extremely high standards and will get people talking. That spills over to the rest of the systems merits in peoples minds. Kind of like the Corvette and Chevrolet, the GT and Ford, etc.

Metroid may not sell like DK, but it will get interest in the system as a whole flowing outside of those who already have made up their pro-Nintendo minds. That, in turn, will help sell units.

People want to feel like they are getting something for their money. with DK, Mario, and Mario again (and that Luigi thing), then Rayman, it's more like people are getting overstuffed on the same old thing again and again.

I've read your posts here and enjoyed them.

We will just agree to disagree on this minute point.

Debate is fun though. On that I do agree. LOL

Okay

[Dr Wario]

Glad we didn't get another Prime out of the deal.  Retro should stay away from Metroid and leave it to Nintendo's Japanese development teams.