97 replies to this topic

[Wertville]

While I do agree that shooters sell a lot (More than they should), I highly disagree that WRPGs dominate the market. The high-marketed WRPGs usually sell the same as the High-marketed JRPGs. In fact, the more popular WRPGs have shooter elements in them, making it much harder to say anything...

Actually, I don't think a Genre can dominate a market. Dragon Quest IX did not sell 1 million in NA and EU in less than a year because it was a JRPG. It sold because it was marketed well, something most JRPGs don't get. So while a country can dominate a genre... A genre cannot dominate a market. (Plus, that would mean Fitness games dominate the market, which we all know is not true )

And besides, looking at the question in the form of the original statement... Most people don't buy consoles in order to buy shooter games, they buy consoles in order to play games more specific to their taste, seeing as all consoles get shooter games. Most people just buy shooter games on consoles they already own. So while CoD and MoH might not sway someone to buy a console, Street Fighter, Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest, Fire Emblem, Professor Layton, Phoenix Wright, Mario, Zelda, DoA, Dynasty Warriors, ect. just might. And while you can say that many western games could do the same... There just simply aren't as many. Most of the big ones I know just go for PC, so it won't even affect the console market.




Also, if you still want to argue that the west controls the market, I would like to point in the continuing fall of the U.S. economy, as well as the recent disaster in Japan. While the U.S. may not drop too radically, the Japanese will have money pouring and flowing through the country. As we've already agreed, the next generation of games will be expensive to produce... So which country will actually be able to afford them? Hint: Not the country that has some of its states bankrupted.

[Feld0]

While I do agree that shooters sell a lot (More than they should), I highly disagree that WRPGs dominate the market. The high-marketed WRPGs usually sell the same as the High-marketed JRPGs. In fact, the more popular WRPGs have shooter elements in them, making it much harder to say anything...

Actually, I don't think a Genre can dominate a market. Dragon Quest IX did not sell 1 million in NA and EU in less than a year because it was a JRPG. It sold because it was marketed well, something most JRPGs don't get. So while a country can dominate a genre... A genre cannot dominate a market. (Plus, that would mean Fitness games dominate the market, which we all know is not true )

And besides, looking at the question in the form of the original statement... Most people don't buy consoles in order to buy shooter games, they buy consoles in order to play games more specific to their taste, seeing as all consoles get shooter games. Most people just buy shooter games on consoles they already own. So while CoD and MoH might not sway someone to buy a console, Street Fighter, Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest, Fire Emblem, Professor Layton, Phoenix Wright, Mario, Zelda, DoA, Dynasty Warriors, ect. just might. And while you can say that many western games could do the same... There just simply aren't as many. Most of the big ones I know just go for PC, so it won't even affect the console market.




Also, if you still want to argue that the west controls the market, I would like to point in the continuing fall of the U.S. economy, as well as the recent disaster in Japan. While the U.S. may not drop too radically, the Japanese will have money pouring and flowing through the country. As we've already agreed, the next generation of games will be expensive to produce... So which country will actually be able to afford them? Hint: Not the country that has some of its states bankrupted.

Great post, Wertville (+1'ed you for it).

I think this might finally be the time for Canadian (go us!) and European developers to shine. I don't remember the last time I ever heard about an ERPG, but I know that there are some pretty talented studios and teams there, and their economy doesn't seem to be in the same disastrous state as the US's or Japan's.

[Guest]

And besides, looking at the question in the form of the original statement... Most people don't buy consoles in order to buy shooter games, they buy consoles in order to play games more specific to their taste

Objection!

Most of the people in my class play ONLY shooters, and half of them bought an Xbox 360 for CoD.

EDIT: IP.Board's linking "Xbox" to Amazon somehow irritates me.

Edited by Guest, 31 May 2011 - 08:02 AM.

[Ruthie]

Great post, Wertville (+1'ed you for it).

I think this might finally be the time for Canadian (go us!) and European developers to shine. I don't remember the last time I ever heard about an ERPG, but I know that there are some pretty talented studios and teams there, and their economy doesn't seem to be in the same disastrous state as the US's or Japan's.

Think again, European Union has already had to bail out two countries on the cusp of bankruptcy. I also heard on this documentary that if Plato from Ancient Greece had started to count out the UK's debt in £50 notes he still wouldn't be finished yet.

[rob_shadows]

Also, if you still want to argue that the west controls the market, I would like to point in the continuing fall of the U.S. economy, as well as the recent disaster in Japan. While the U.S. may not drop too radically, the Japanese will have money pouring and flowing through the country. As we've already agreed, the next generation of games will be expensive to produce... So which country will actually be able to afford them? Hint: Not the country that has some of its states bankrupted.

Uhh, what the heck are you talking about? Japan IS bankrupt and has been for the last decade, their economy is in worse shape than the U.S and struggling European nations and the Tsunami is going to make things WORSE not better. Yes, there is going to be a lot of money pumped out in Japan FROM the government that is already broke, that would be like the U.S getting hit with a disaster that would cost hundreds of billions of dollars to recover from and the U.S Government having to pay for it, all that money your talking about is going to recovery efforts...not buying video games, if anything the video game market will see a significant negative impact due to the events because of so much money going towards rebuilding.

Insurance companies will be able to provide some assistance as well as foreign aid but the disaster in Japan is going to cost their government many many billions (actually trillions if you go by Yen and not USD). The notion that the U.S Economy will help Japanese developers is just asinine when Japan's economy is even worse than ours, that's why every news outlet in the world was mentioning Japans struggling economy when the disaster struck, it will actually cause destabilization in multiple regions of the world because of how much money the Japanese government will have to borrow and because of how heavily they rely on exports that have been effected, etc...

The problems in Japan are MUCH MUCH worse than anyone in the west is aware of, the Western media paid attention for about a week and then pretended it never happened. For example, CNN, Fox News, etc...wouldn't shut up about the Fukushima nuclear disaster for about a week and we haven't heard anything since despite the fact that it's STILL happening.

Actually, I don't think a Genre can dominate a market. Dragon Quest IX did not sell 1 million in NA and EU in less than a year because it was a JRPG. It sold because it was marketed well, something most JRPGs don't get. So while a country can dominate a genre... A genre cannot dominate a market. (Plus, that would mean Fitness games dominate the market, which we all know is not true )

Erm...1 million copies in NA and EU in less than a year isn't actually all that impressive nowadays considering top shooters and WRPGs sell that in less than a month, lol...some have managed to do it before they were even released.

[Wertville]

Uhh, what the heck are you talking about? Japan IS bankrupt and has been for the last decade, their economy is in worse shape than the U.S and struggling European nations and the Tsunami is going to make things WORSE not better. Yes, there is going to be a lot of money pumped out in Japan FROM the government that is already broke, that would be like the U.S getting hit with a disaster that would cost hundreds of billions of dollars to recover from and the U.S Government having to pay for it, all that money your talking about is going to recovery efforts...not buying video games, if anything the video game market will see a significant negative impact due to the events because of so much money going towards rebuilding.

Insurance companies will be able to provide some assistance as well as foreign aid but the disaster in Japan is going to cost their government many many billions (actually trillions if you go by Yen and not USD). The notion that the U.S Economy will help Japanese developers is just asinine when Japan's economy is even worse than ours, that's why every news outlet in the world was mentioning Japans struggling economy when the disaster struck, it will actually cause destabilization in multiple regions of the world because of how much money the Japanese government will have to borrow and because of how heavily they rely on exports that have been effected, etc...

The problems in Japan are MUCH MUCH worse than anyone in the west is aware of, the Western media paid attention for about a week and then pretended it never happened. For example, CNN, Fox News, etc...wouldn't shut up about the Fukushima nuclear disaster for about a week and we haven't heard anything since despite the fact that it's STILL happening.

Clearly you don't know how economy works... Here, let me state a few things for you:

a) The Tsunami only hit northern Japan, and the nuclear disaster only affects one city.

The cities that were affected by the disaster can't afford much, but they NEED supplies... Who do they buy that from? Japanese cities that weren't affected.

c) One of the biggest problems with the great depression (And the current US situation) is that people stop spending money because they feel the need to save it... But if people are saving money, how will other people make money? And if other people stop making money, how do they spend money on the people who won't spend money? In this situation, people stop making money... The economy freezes.

d) There are two large examples that prove that disaster spells fortune for many of the survivors. For one, do you know when the great depression ended? WWII. Why would something that kills millions and wastes billions of dollars not only stop the depression, but bring prosperity after it??? Because people get jobs and start spending money. That's how Hitler brought Germany (The worst sufferer's of the depression) out of the depression, by making a puppet economy that brought jobs to people by making tanks and other assorted weaponry. He didn't even have the money to pay the people! He went in debt in order to give people jobs, and it showed... Germany was pretty much the first country to leave the depression.

Secondly, The black plague. What did it do for humanity? Other than killing millions, not much. But what did it do for the rest of us? Brought our standards of living much higher, because the averages persons life became MUCH more valuable. I'm no expert on the plague, but anyone can tell you that when you have less people, they are all worth more.

Erm...1 million copies in NA and EU in less than a year isn't actually all that impressive nowadays considering top shooters and WRPGs sell that in less than a month, lol...some have managed to do it before they were even released.

It sold 2.3 million copies in the first week in Japan.

[Hogge]

My thought is: no.
Cafe puts Sony in a tough spot. If they release a new console, they'll have to admit the PS3 being a financial disaster. If they don't, people will soon think of the PS3 as PS3 owners now see the Wii.
If Sony launch a new home console, I highly doubt they'll subsidise it like they did with the PS3. Instead, they'll have to sell it for what it costs to make. And it will have to be competitively priced from day 1. So I think that Sony may launch a console slightly more powerful than the Wii 2, but not by much. It'll be more like the PS3 compared to the Xbox 360, rather than the PS3 compared to the Wii.

[rob_shadows]

a) The Tsunami only hit northern Japan, and the nuclear disaster only affects one city.

"The Science Ministry announced late on Friday highly radioactive materials were detected in a 300-km north-south stretch from Kesennuma in Miyagi Prefecture to Choshi in Chiba Prefecture, the Kyodo news agency reported."

One city huh? As I said before, the Nuclear Disaster is MUCH worse than the West is reporting, it never stopped and is still ongoing (another explosion was heard near reactor 4 as recent as yesterday). Not to mention the fact that Typhoon season is upon us and Fukushima is prone to getting hit which will only hinder efforts to get things under control. Because of the fact that radioactive material is so light and travels so easily through the air, there is no such thing as "only one city" being affected by a nuclear disaster like this.

EDIT:

By the way that quote is in reference to this past Friday (May, 27th). Not a quote taken earlier in the crisis.

c) One of the biggest problems with the great depression (And the current US situation) is that people stop spending money because they feel the need to save it... But if people are saving money, how will other people make money? And if other people stop making money, how do they spend money on the people who won't spend money? In this situation, people stop making money... The economy freezes.

I don't know where you live but where I'm at people haven't exactly stopped spending money, the money spent has simply shifted to other areas. People are spending less money on entertainment and more money on Fuel, Food, etc...because of rising inflation costs. In fact some areas affected by the current economic situation are seeing people spend money more freely, with the extremely low costs of houses right now a lot of people are taking advantage of the fact that you can buy a house that 5 years ago would have cost 100k+ for as low as under 15k (at least in Michigan where I am you can easily find houses that low), including my uncle who bought a house for 13k that in 2009 sold for over 100k and my parents who bought 5 bedroom, 2 and 1/2 bathroom house for 5k, 5k they would have never spent on that house were the economic crisis not happening.

d) There are two large examples that prove that disaster spells fortune for many of the survivors. For one, do you know when the great depression ended? WWII. Why would something that kills millions and wastes billions of dollars not only stop the depression, but bring prosperity after it??? Because people get jobs and start spending money. That's how Hitler brought Germany (The worst sufferer's of the depression) out of the depression, by making a puppet economy that brought jobs to people by making tanks and other assorted weaponry. He didn't even have the money to pay the people! He went in debt in order to give people jobs, and it showed... Germany was pretty much the first country to leave the depression.

The great depression was already seeing signs of ending in many countries a few years before the outbreak of WWII (the United States being one of them), while there is no denying that WWII did play a role in helping to end the depression the reality is most nations would have seen the end of the great depression in the early 40s even without the war.

While relief efforts and rebuilding projects in Japan will certainly create jobs for the Japanese, it doesn't offset the many many jobs that were lost due to the destruction caused by the Tsunami.

It sold 2.3 million copies in the first week in Japan.

When did anyone debate the success of JRPGs in Japan? You mentioned it sold over 1 million copies in NA and Europe in it's first year, a milestone many western shooters and WRPGs (not to mention sports titles) are able to hit in a much shorter time. The argument was how much of an effect Microsoft having no popularity in Japan with their consoles would effect what system got what games, Dragon Quest selling 2.3 million in the first week in Japan isn't going to have any effect on western gaming. Dragon Quest was a huge success for a JRPG in the West but comparing it to WRPGs, Shooters, Sports Titles, Etc...it was a moderate success at best. Like I said, I LOVE JRPGs...I've invested so many hours in Final Fantasy and Suikoden games it's ridiculous...but that doesn't change the fact that JRPGs and other games that are huge in Japan are at best moderate successes in NA and EU where the market is dominated by Shooters, WRPGS, Sports Franchises, Etc...there are certainly exceptions to the rule but if you look at those exception many of them are shooters as well (Resident Evil, Metal Gear Solid, etc...)

Edited by rob_shadows, 01 June 2011 - 06:55 AM.

[Wertville]

"The Science Ministry announced late on Friday highly radioactive materials were detected in a 300-km north-south stretch from Kesennuma in Miyagi Prefecture to Choshi in Chiba Prefecture, the Kyodo news agency reported."

One city huh? As I said before, the Nuclear Disaster is MUCH worse than the West is reporting, it never stopped and is still ongoing (another explosion was heard near reactor 4 as recent as yesterday). Not to mention the fact that Typhoon season is upon us and Fukushima is prone to getting hit which will only hinder efforts to get things under control. Because of the fact that radioactive material is so light and travels so easily through the air, there is no such thing as "only one city" being affected by a nuclear disaster like this.

EDIT:

By the way that quote is in reference to this past Friday (May, 27th). Not a quote taken earlier in the crisis.

I think you're overreacting to the size of the situation... I never said that it wasn't devastating, nor that it would only effect one city... However, it's not about to wipe out the Japanese race. Or else they would have been finished at the end of WWII, thanks to a certain western country >.>

I don't know where you live but where I'm at people haven't exactly stopped spending money, the money spent has simply shifted to other areas. People are spending less money on entertainment and more money on Fuel, Food, etc...because of rising inflation costs. In fact some areas affected by the current economic situation are seeing people spend money more freely, with the extremely low costs of houses right now a lot of people are taking advantage of the fact that you can buy a house that 5 years ago would have cost 100k+ for as low as under 15k (at least in Michigan where I am you can easily find houses that low), including my uncle who bought a house for 13k that in 2009 sold for over 100k and my parents who bought 5 bedroom, 2 and 1/2 bathroom house for 5k, 5k they would have never spent on that house were the economic crisis not happening.

I live in Canada, which is doing relatively well compared to the rest of the English speaking world. And as for the rest of your paragraph... Two things:


a) The Great depression is considered the worst time period in all of human history, don't think that the US' current situation even scratches how bad that was

Because people stop spending money on certain areas, the people in those areas have to stop spending money. Just as well; decreasing prices is done only to increase sales... If people start waiting till things are dirt-cheap, which they know will happen, then that means the seller is getting ripped off and cannot spend money on things they would have otherwise. It's a dirty cycle that goes on and on; If you don't spend money, then other's can't make money. If others can't make money, then you can't get paid.

The great depression was already seeing signs of ending in many countries a few years before the outbreak of WWII (the United States being one of them), while there is no denying that WWII did play a role in helping to end the depression the reality is most nations would have seen the end of the great depression in the early 40s even without the war.

Even if they did see the end of it, they would not have seen the economical prosperity the war brought.

While relief efforts and rebuilding projects in Japan will certainly create jobs for the Japanese, it doesn't offset the many many jobs that were lost due to the destruction caused by the Tsunami.

If someone lost their job in a tsunami then, as cruel as it sounds, they have a larger than 50% chance of being dead. Also reconstruction efforts are a lot harder than you might think.

When did anyone debate the success of JRPGs in Japan? You mentioned it sold over 1 million copies in NA and Europe in it's first year, a milestone many western shooters and WRPGs (not to mention sports titles) are able to hit in a much shorter time. The argument was how much of an effect Microsoft having no popularity in Japan with their consoles would effect what system got what games, Dragon Quest selling 2.3 million in the first week in Japan isn't going to have any effect on western gaming. Dragon Quest was a huge success for a JRPG in the West but comparing it to WRPGs, Shooters, Sports Titles, Etc...it was a moderate success at best. Like I said, I LOVE JRPGs...I've invested so many hours in Final Fantasy and Suikoden games it's ridiculous...but that doesn't change the fact that JRPGs and other games that are huge in Japan are at best moderate successes in NA and EU where the market is dominated by Shooters, WRPGS, Sports Franchises, Etc...there are certainly exceptions to the rule but if you look at those exception many of them are shooters as well (Resident Evil, Metal Gear Solid, etc...)

Did anyone debate the success of Shooters and WRPGs in NA/EU? I know I didn't.


However, do you know why those games get so many sales in the western world? Advertising. And word-of-mouth.
JRPGs rarely get 1 Million sales, let alone in the first year. DQIX was advertised better, though, and got more sales that way. Just the same, it got much better word-of-mouth advertising. Nintendo is started to do this for third party 3DS games; People will know about games that they would have never heard of had they never travelled to an Internet chat room or an Anime club.


Plus, if you think about it, if a niche game in a small country like Japan can sell the same amount as a popular NA game in the first week, then you can tell which place is less anti-video game

[rob_shadows]

Now that we've actually seen it I can safely say that Yes, the next Xbox and PS systems will be considerably more powerful than Wii U.

[Sphinx]

Now that we've actually seen it I can safely say that Yes, the next Xbox and PS systems will be considerably more powerful than Wii U.

We still haven't seen what the machine is capable of, just very early gameplay footage by some third party developers.

Edited by Sphinx, 07 June 2011 - 10:51 AM.

[Wertville]

We still haven't seen what the machine is capable of, just very early gameplay footage by some third party developers.

Adding on to that; Most of it was probably just literal ports of PS360 games... Meaning that it can handle them better than they can

[rob_shadows]

The games shown were likely being run on the 360 not the WiiU, however the bird video was 100% built specifically to show off the WiiU's capabilities and it didn't blow any the 360 or PS3.

EDIT:

Not to mention that's a tech demo, actual gameplay likely will not look as good (rarely does gameplay ever match tech demo's)

Edited by rob_shadows, 07 June 2011 - 01:05 PM.

[Wertville]

The rough shape of this demo is no cause for concern, however. At the end of my time with the new system, Nintendo played an interactive cinematic that put all my fears to rest. The difference in quality between that sequence and this was light years apart, making me wonder why I watched the hawk video in the first place.

The second major tech demonstration featured live footage of Japan, with a camera moving down a crowded street, hovering above vehicles. Like the hawk demo, the tablet was also featuring the footage shown on the television. But as I moved the new controller, I was able to see more of the city around me, without altering what was being shown on the larger screen. I could move the tablet upward to see the sky, or downward to see the street moving under me. Even more impressive, I could start to rotate the controller or "aim" it behind me to see where I had been. Pressing a button would also flip the portable display behind me, allowing me to see backwards similar to a rearview mirror. The potential for racing games with this sort of technology is truly impressive.

The console itself is much stronger than anything Nintendo showed at the conference, apparently. My guess is the bird video was used to show off what the tablet could do. Wow, SonySoft must really feel injured now

[rob_shadows]

Yeah...you'll have to excuse me for not trusting him. First off...he's obviously an idiot if he thought that was a hawk, lol. Second, in his report he mentions the "next generation" Zelda being shown off when in reality the Zelda shown off was an upgraded tech demo of Twilight Princess...so yeah...once someone who has any clue what they are talking about confirms that...I'll believe it.

[Wertville]

That was IGN :/

[Biohazard]

Could you provide a link? Though, I'm willing to believe you since IGN doesn't have very good writers.

[Wertville]

http://wii.ign.com/a.../1173582p1.html

[rob_shadows]

I know it was IGN...but that doesn't mean anything. Just because it's a major publication doesn't make it accurate...IGN is the same publication that "built" their "own project cafe" which was just pathetic.

It wasn't a hawk
It wasn't a new zelda game
Why should I believe him that the second tech demo was so much better than the first? He was obviously so impressed by the dual-screen abilities that he probably wasn't even paying much attention to the details.

[Wertville]

I know it was IGN...but that doesn't mean anything. Just because it's a major publication doesn't make it accurate...IGN is the same publication that "built" their "own project cafe" which was just pathetic.

It wasn't a hawk
It wasn't a new zelda game
Why should I believe him that the second tech demo was so much better than the first? He was obviously so impressed by the dual-screen abilities that he probably wasn't even paying much attention to the details.

There's a difference between calling a Bird a hawk, a tech demo a game and alright graphics 'TEH BESTUST GRAPHICS EVER!'


Not even a mindless fanboy could make that mistake...

...

...Ok, not one that can type in full sentences, anyway.