106 replies to this topic

[Wertville]

Thanks for clarifying Andy

Also, I think 'Middle' is a bad term for the Gamecube, as the difference between it and the PS2 was much larger than the difference between it and the Xbox.

[Andy]

Thanks for clarifying Andy

Also, I think 'Middle' is a bad term for the Gamecube, as the difference between it and the PS2 was much larger than the difference between it and the Xbox.

I meant middle as in "more powerful than the PS2, but not as powerful as the X-Box". Trust me, I can see quite a bit of difference between my PS2 games and the GameCube games that I own. But your right, something like "Second most powerful" would have been a better term.

[SleepyGuyy]

The WiiU has some specifications, ie significantly more RAM than ps3 or Xbox (for the record ps3 is more powerful but xbox has more RAM). This gets people excited and they think the WiiU will step up past the other consoles in power, but really that RAM is used to stream video audio and touch programming (well you know what i mean) to the controller. So we aren't sure what the console has but i remember Iwata saying when he first announced it in mid-spring, that the power is great but that that wouldn't matter once you see the console (which is evident when seeing the controller). I'm assuming this means Iwata doesn't want us to focus on the power (unsettling). Though i still expect a lot from this console and even if the power equals that of the ps3 (not taking into account the power used to stream) i hope it makes enough unique , fun games to bring a whole new kind of game to the table that isnt as hard to come up with good uses as the Wii (sooooo much shovel-ware). This Ninovation has a more obvious hardcore or classic gaming use unlike the Wii's motion . The power is important but i can see many uses for a ps3 power level wiiu controller......... and i know Sony has the PSVita but that doesnt come with the console and connects differently so developers wont be as open to it as the wiiu. In summary to this ridiculously long and repetitive post: I feel the power is equal to or greater than the ps3 with greater RAM than the xbox. But the design of the wiiu seems to easily overcome any worries..... although i see MANY uses for a super powered, online integrated wiiu......... mmmmmm, open world MMO action...... yoshi.....?

[Jikayaki]

The WiiU has some specifications, ie significantly more RAM than ps3 or Xbox (for the record ps3 is more powerful but xbox has more RAM). This gets people excited and they think the WiiU will step up past the other consoles in power, but really that RAM is used to stream video audio and touch programming (well you know what i mean) to the controller. So we aren't sure what the console has but i remember Iwata saying when he first announced it in mid-spring, that the power is great but that that wouldn't matter once you see the console (which is evident when seeing the controller). I'm assuming this means Iwata doesn't want us to focus on the power (unsettling). Though i still expect a lot from this console and even if the power equals that of the ps3 (not taking into account the power used to stream) i hope it makes enough unique , fun games to bring a whole new kind of game to the table that isnt as hard to come up with good uses as the Wii (sooooo much shovel-ware). This Ninovation has a more obvious hardcore or classic gaming use unlike the Wii's motion . The power is important but i can see many uses for a ps3 power level wiiu controller......... and i know Sony has the PSVita but that doesnt come with the console and connects differently so developers wont be as open to it as the wiiu. In summary to this ridiculously long and repetitive post: I feel the power is equal to or greater than the ps3 with greater RAM than the xbox. But the design of the wiiu seems to easily overcome any worries..... although i see MANY uses for a super powered, online integrated wiiu......... mmmmmm, open world MMO action...... yoshi.....?

The Wii U won't be overly burdened by streaming to the controller. Going off of sources such as the Wii U tablet patents, the speculation regarding Nintendo using Eyefinity technology, and the current supposed specs of the Wii U kets from leaks and rumors streaming to the controllers won't be much of a burden. The big unknown currently is focused more primarily toward bandwidth, which would determine how many Wii U controllers can be used at one time. Your spinning Nintendo merely being Nintendo negatively. Nintendo is still very much carrying forward the marketing strategy of the Wii and DS with the Wii U. At the same time Nintendo has been burned by being too open and honest about specs before and the Wii U is likely still not completely taped out.

[the darkhole]

im sure the wii u WILL be more powerful than the 360 and ps3 for sure AND slightly more powerful than the 3ds.

Edited by Feld0, 24 October 2011 - 09:13 PM.
Correcting a double post

[Andy]

im sure the wii u WILL be more powerful than the 360 and ps3 for sure AND slightly more powerful than the 3ds.

Dude, if it's more powerful than the PS3, than it's going to leave the 3DS in the dust. lol

Edited by Feld0, 24 October 2011 - 09:13 PM.
Correcting a double post

[Desert Punk]

Desert Punk, you're cracked in the head if you think the 3DS isn't more powerful than the PSP.

Resident Evil Revelations. End of discussion. It runs effects completely 100% NOT POSSIBLE on PSP and at 30fps which is a far cry from basically any PSP game I've ever seen.

And no Wii game looks better than Conker? Are you serious? Try Mario Galaxy or Mario Galaxy 2. Not only are the textures sharper and cleaner, but the game also runs at 60 fps locked.

As for Half Life 2, it's hard to compare since Valve didn't see fit to port that version of Source over to the Wii, but Metroid Prime 3 is in the first person, has comparable world and character size, and runs at 60 fps too, which is a far cry from that Half Life 2 clip you showed us, which struggled constantly.



Wow, just... wow. You couldn't possibly be more wrong. RE4 on the PS2 is nowhere near Revelations man. Revelations is, once again, doing stuff like pixel shaders and things that the PS2 simply can't do. (BTW this is hilarious isn't it, apparently the PS2 is more powerful than the 3DS, and the 3DS is more powerful than the GC, so that means that the PS2 is morew powerful than the GC. Lovely logic coming from a guy who claims to be fighting off fanboys, eh?)

Sorry dude, but you are wrong, You're just throwing videos and specs (like 32-bit color which *BZZZT* doesn't exist. It's just 24-bit color with an 8-bit alpha channel. More useful as a bullet point than an actual imporvement) around thinking that's all you need. You're either a troll, or BADLY misinformed.

Firstly its pretty stupid to say the least to argue the point that the 3DS has better graphics than the PSP when I have already stated the 3DS has a better gpu. The point I've made is about the cpu being more powerful and which allows the creation of more complex game worlds but it doesn't mean the game world is as well presented. You can have a fast pc with a basic graphics card and you can have a slower pc with a better graphics card and both systems will have advantages and disadvantages. Considering I have both a psp and 3DS and can see the psp has generally more advanced game worlds than 3DS. Mercenaries has some nice graphics but there isn't a lot to the game. Revelations isn't released so don't know much about the content but the graphics look nice as do Mercenaries but Mercenaries was not a satisfying game.

Remember Resident Evil 4 on ps2 had a lot going on both inside and out yet all the Revelations videos I have seen have been inside in corridors with not a lot actually happening. Quite primitive gameplay too. Resident Evil 4 had fantastic playability thanks to rich varied environments.



I'll admit that I haven't been following Revelations that much and maybe there are more impressive gameplay videos now but I haven't seen them all I have seen is boring corridor type stuff.

You may believe the 3DS is powerful but currently there is no evidence to support that. So far the 3DS looks to be a low power console with a reasonable gpu so it can do reasonable presentation of games but the games themselves are quite limited.

I have both a wii and original xbox connected to a projector which is about six feet diagonal in screen size. The very idea that Mario Galaxy compares to Conker is so utterly stupid its beyond a joke. There is no doubt Galaxy games have some good artistic designs but in textures and lighting effects its far behind. Before you make such a stupid statement again you need to actually compare them.

No Metroid Prime 3 is not comparable to Half Life 2. It may have a better frame rate though. Half Life 2 does struggle at times on xbox but then its running a physic's engine which MP3 doesn't have to do. MP3 doesn't really attempt to simulate a real world either in physics or visually. Its more cartoon like working to the limitations of the wii.

What amazes me about your argument is its mainly about graphics as if graphics are all that matters. Interesting gameplay requires a lot of cpu power to create interesting events. However its a balance. The ps2 is more powerful than the gamecube in some ways but it only has about 450 dmips of integer performance, the dreamcast had 350 dmips and the 3DS has about 330 dmips so in that regard the 3DS isn't very powerful but it has a more upto date gpu, more memory which is also faster. The gamecube in comparison has about 1100 dmips performance. The wii about 1700 dmips and the original xbox over 2000 dmips.

Strangely most consoles have left 24bit colour behind a long time ago. The ps2 and original xbox both have 32bit colour. The hdmi specification even allows for upto 48bit colour. I doubt the wii U will keep to 24bit colour but instead upgrade to 32bit. Its very important to lighting effects where brightness varies and creating realistic visuals and textures for real world environments.

Of course in your world 24bit is fine and why have more than 2 channel sound as we only have 2 ears. The wii is perfect for you.

Ultimately my point is the wii was a piss poor console technically. Mario Galaxy could have been done a lot better on original xbox, it could have been enhanced with 5.1 sound, 32bit colour, much richer textures, more animated textures, more complex a.i, and physics. Maybe a 720p version could have been done on original xbox with 5.1 sound like Soul Caliber II.

In recent years the only good thing about Nintendo consoles is Nintendo games which I love.

None of us know what the final spec of the Wii U will be but there is absolutely no point assuming it will be powerful we just don't know. It annoys me that the same sort of morons are at work again talking up the specification of the next Nintendo console when we just don't know what the final console will be capable of. Even now people still believe the wii is more powerful than the original xbox. We have basically reached the end of wii development and it has never achieved the level of games that the original xbox has. Yet incredibly people are still claiming the wii is more powerful with absolutely nothing to back it up at all.

[Vericitus]

Firstly its pretty stupid to say the least to argue the point that the 3DS has better graphics than the PSP when I have already stated the 3DS has a better gpu.

Uhh a few posts back you said "I love my 3DS but its not as powerful as sony's portable console that dates back to 2004." Now you're saying it is more powerful, but the PSP has the faster CPU, measured only my Mhz and nothing having anything to do with advanced architecture like the ARM11 that's in the 3DS. Sorry bud.

You also tried to prove the PSP is more powerful by comparing Ridge Racers, A crappy iPhone port to the 3DS, vs. a game Sony developed for the PSP probably a year ago, trying to do a "proof's in the pudding" comparison. And yet you are trying your hardest to discredit the 3DS's "proof's in the pudding" comparison by saying the PS2 is more powerful than the 3DS or something because the PS2 version of RE4, which Resident Evil Revelations looks better than btw just on graphical effects alone, has "a lot going on inside and outside," whatever the hell that means. Give it up, 3DS is quite a lot more capable than the PSP. Deal with it.

You may believe the 3DS is powerful but currently there is no evidence to support that.

Find me a PSP or a PS2 game that looks better than this, amigo. Capcom literally had to show the press a separate demo that turned off various effects like HDR and depth of field just to prove to guys like you that just won't believe the 3DS is this capable. Apparently it still didn't work because they can't fix stupid I suppose.

I have both a wii and original xbox connected to a projector which is about six feet diagonal in screen size. The very idea that Mario Galaxy compares to Conker is so utterly stupid its beyond a joke.

Yeah I know, Galaxy looks and runs so much better. Seriously, that clip you showed of Conker has the framerate dip when he's TALKING to somebody, with no action going on. Mario Galaxy stays at 60 fps forever, AND has better textures, don't lie. Believe what you want, but you're wrong, buddy. (and you're Projecting these games? Projectors suck for games, period. No wonder you can't tell the difference.)

In fact I have another Game on Wii that beats out Conker too. Sonic Colors, not only runs at a higher framerate, but also has gigantic worlds with many more graphical and particle effects going on at the same time. Seriously, this is a losing argument for you.

No Metroid Prime 3 is not comparable to Half Life 2. It may have a better frame rate though. Half Life 2 does struggle at times on xbox but then its running a physic's engine which MP3 doesn't have to do. MP3 doesn't really attempt to simulate a real world either in physics or visually. Its more cartoon like working to the limitations of the wii.

I'd say they are comparable. Metroid Prime 3 does have a physics engine. It's not on EVERYTHING but the enemies do react with physics when struck with missiles and such. And since the game runs better than Half Life 2 does on the Xbox (seriously, have you ever actually PLAYED that version. The framerate gets horrendous near the end. And it's a buitchered up version of the game too. The Xbox clearly can't handle it, but they tried anyway.)

The ps2 is more powerful than the gamecube in some ways but it only has about 450 dmips of integer performance,"

Whoa holy carp. Had to stop right there. You have no idea what the hell you're talking about now. Seriously, NO. The Ps2 was in no way more powerful than the Gamecube in ANY respect. Hell take RE4, which you seem so proud of on the PS2. The Ps2 version was butchered to all hell from the GameCube version. Not only did the game look half as good, it also had longer loadtimes times to boot. Seriously, go look at comparison screens to see just how many effects they had to turn off for the PS2 version to even run.

Is it even worth it to talk to someone so misinformed?

The ps2 and original xbox both have 32bit colour.

*BZZT* Wrong. PS2 had 24-bit Color, without the Z-buffer that both the GameCube and the horsing DREAMCAST had,

Mario Galaxy could have been done a lot better on original xbox,

Not quite homeboy. All those special effects and stuff you listed after this not goodness would have taken a huge hit to the framerate. Mario Galaxy does look better than any Xbox game. Soul Calibur II is actually a perfect example of this. The framerate takes a huge dive with 720p. Also, I'm not sure that Dolby 5.1 has to do with graphics, but whatever.

Even now people still believe the wii is more powerful than the original xbox. We have basically reached the end of wii development and it has never achieved the level of games that the original xbox has.

Actually, RE4 was a first year Wii game, quickly ported to the Wii for some quick bucks. And yet, RE4 looks better than every Xbox game I've seen. Heck apprently the original Xbox couldn't run RE4, which is why it never got a port of the game. That appeals to your sense of logic, right?

Anyway, done talking to somebody so misinformed. There's no point for me and no hope for you.

Edited by Vericitus, 29 October 2011 - 11:55 AM.

[Waller]

About the previous discusion of the PS1 and N64, it's true the PS1 had comparable graphics with the N64, but not only were the textures of a lower resolution, the world size of the PS1 was laughable compared to the N64. PS1 was 32 bits, N64 was 64 bits.
I find it curious how you completely ignored that in the argument, and you're whining about it in the 3DS discusion.

Firstly its pretty stupid to say the least to argue the point that the 3DS has better graphics than the PSP when I have already stated the 3DS has a better gpu. The point I've made is about the cpu being more powerful and which allows the creation of more complex game worlds but it doesn't mean the game world is as well presented. You can have a fast pc with a basic graphics card and you can have a slower pc with a better graphics card and both systems will have advantages and disadvantages. Considering I have both a psp and 3DS and can see the psp has generally more advanced game worlds than 3DS. Mercenaries has some nice graphics but there isn't a lot to the game. Revelations isn't released so don't know much about the content but the graphics look nice as do Mercenaries but Mercenaries was not a satisfying game.

Remember Resident Evil 4 on ps2 had a lot going on both inside and out yet all the Revelations videos I have seen have been inside in corridors with not a lot actually happening. Quite primitive gameplay too. Resident Evil 4 had fantastic playability thanks to rich varied environments.

I'll admit that I haven't been following Revelations that much and maybe there are more impressive gameplay videos now but I haven't seen them all I have seen is boring corridor type stuff.

You may believe the 3DS is powerful but currently there is no evidence to support that. So far the 3DS looks to be a low power console with a reasonable gpu so it can do reasonable presentation of games but the games themselves are quite limited.

And which computer will play games better? The CPU one, or the GPU one? The answer is pretty obvious.
About Revelations, I would like to inform you that it is a survival horror game, these kinds of games tend to not have a high amount of enemies on-screen as it takes out of the experience. Resident Evil 4, as a survival horror game, was a dissapointment imo, so don't point at it being of the same genre.
Capcom got the demo of Resident Evil 5 running on the 3DS. Case closed.

I have both a wii and original xbox connected to a projector which is about six feet diagonal in screen size. The very idea that Mario Galaxy compares to Conker is so utterly stupid its beyond a joke. There is no doubt Galaxy games have some good artistic designs but in textures and lighting effects its far behind. Before you make such a stupid statement again you need to actually compare them.

No Metroid Prime 3 is not comparable to Half Life 2. It may have a better frame rate though. Half Life 2 does struggle at times on xbox but then its running a physic's engine which MP3 doesn't have to do. MP3 doesn't really attempt to simulate a real world either in physics or visually. Its more cartoon like working to the limitations of the wii.

What amazes me about your argument is its mainly about graphics as if graphics are all that matters. Interesting gameplay requires a lot of cpu power to create interesting events. However its a balance. The ps2 is more powerful than the gamecube in some ways but it only has about 450 dmips of integer performance, the dreamcast had 350 dmips and the 3DS has about 330 dmips so in that regard the 3DS isn't very powerful but it has a more upto date gpu, more memory which is also faster. The gamecube in comparison has about 1100 dmips performance. The wii about 1700 dmips and the original xbox over 2000 dmips.

Strangely most consoles have left 24bit colour behind a long time ago. The ps2 and original xbox both have 32bit colour. The hdmi specification even allows for upto 48bit colour. I doubt the wii U will keep to 24bit colour but instead upgrade to 32bit. Its very important to lighting effects where brightness varies and creating realistic visuals and textures for real world environments.

Of course in your world 24bit is fine and why have more than 2 channel sound as we only have 2 ears. The wii is perfect for you.

Ultimately my point is the wii was a piss poor console technically. Mario Galaxy could have been done a lot better on original xbox, it could have been enhanced with 5.1 sound, 32bit colour, much richer textures, more animated textures, more complex a.i, and physics. Maybe a 720p version could have been done on original xbox with 5.1 sound like Soul Caliber II.

In recent years the only good thing about Nintendo consoles is Nintendo games which I love.

What Vericitus said.

None of us know what the final spec of the Wii U will be but there is absolutely no point assuming it will be powerful we just don't know. It annoys me that the same sort of morons are at work again talking up the specification of the next Nintendo console when we just don't know what the final console will be capable of. Even now people still believe the wii is more powerful than the original xbox. We have basically reached the end of wii development and it has never achieved the level of games that the original xbox has. Yet incredibly people are still claiming the wii is more powerful with absolutely nothing to back it up at all.

There's also no point in assuming it will be a poor console technically. Every rumour points to it being more powerful than PS360, and Miyamoto said "Where there's smoke there's fire", so these could actually be planned leaks.

[Merchiodos]

The Wii U is so overpowered it makes the 360 & PS3 look like Atari's

[Zuperman]

I think the power's good enough. I think all current home console's graphics are good enough, they all have the potential for stunningly beautiful looking games.

[Masterman280]

It has to be atleast 3-5 times more powerful than the PS3/360, because the Wii U apparently using a ATI/AMD RV770 4890 which the high end 4xxx series which was made in late 2009. The Next-Box is rumored to be released at 2013, it would most likley use 2010-2012 processors, obviously it won't be a huge leap, both Microsoft and Sony doesn't want to make the mistakes that the PS3 had. (the PS3 cost $800 to produce) So the Wii U will need alot of power but still keeping the console affordable, the Wii U will most likley be the PS2 of that generation, meaning it will be the weakest of the three, but still powerful enough to handle multiplatform games. My bet is that the Wii U will cost 300-350 US Dollars, and 250 British Pounds, any more than the Wii U is destined to failure.

[Marc]

It has to be atleast 3-5 times more powerful than the PS3/360, because the Wii U apparently using a ATI/AMD RV770 4890 which the high end 4xxx series which was made in late 2009. The Next-Box is rumored to be released at 2013, it would most likley use 2010-2012 processors, obviously it won't be a huge leap, both Microsoft and Sony doesn't want to make the mistakes that the PS3 had. (the PS3 cost $800 to produce) So the Wii U will need alot of power but still keeping the console affordable, the Wii U will most likley be the PS2 of that generation, meaning it will be the weakest of the three, but still powerful enough to handle multiplatform games. My bet is that the Wii U will cost 300-350 US Dollars, and 250 British Pounds, any more than the Wii U is destined to failure.

@Masterman280
I agree with your intellectual insight here, although £270 wouldn't be a bad price at all for the WiiU. It is actually quite an attractive asking price, giving that we are all going to pretty much agree and state 'fair game' come the spec announcement, or at launch. I wouldn't like to assume anyone would be disappointed, but it's gonna happen just because of all the current/upcoming speculation which will most likely blind out the tactics we are to expect Nintendo to make a little. A very delicate approach is obviously required. What do you think?

I think the power's good enough. I think all current home console's graphics are good enough, they all have the potential for stunningly beautiful looking games.

@Zuperman
Decided to patch you in here too man, because you make good citing Hopefully, because you are absolutely right here (in a non-materialistic world where Pac-Man is the greatest game of all time...that game really is too good for words..), this should become more apparent after launch of WiiU. It will naturally bring everyone's criticism down over time as production values alone will clearly show where the software has had the most work. I will still expect 360 and PS3 games just reaching out to wider audiences come their slow demise to pull in any last funding before their own attempts at next gen.

I wonder what 'new' AAA titles are still yet to emerge on 360 (including Kinect) and PS3...the level of game design is so high now, that to start fresh on new dev kits would seem silly if the momentum is currently peaking. Although I have great faith in WiiU, and it's ability to stream to peripherals, the Wii died in the centre of both the other consoles growing, so I am to expect the WiiU to take longer to build confidence in consumers. Ain't gonna stop me from having it delivered to my door at launch though

[Some speculative babble I trust you can forgive me for here]

Edited by Marc, 31 October 2011 - 05:14 PM.

[Hydra]

its a revamped 48xx according to what ive read, which could mean its alot more advanced even, sharing some tech with the 6000 series maybe.

[FreakAlchemist]

its a revamped 48xx according to what ive read, which could mean its alot more advanced even, sharing some tech with the 6000 series maybe.

And where this at?

[Jikayaki]

And where this at?

That comment is likely from speculation from Neogaf or somewhere else. We already know if they stick with R700 architecture it will be custom to some degree because of the likely hood of Nintendo using Eyefinity technology. They also may switch from VLIW5 architecture to VLIW4 architecture basically lowering transistor count and TDP while keeping the same performance. In the end the final chip may be an altered low end 7000 series card. AMD's latest architecture easily could of been on the table back when alpha dev kits started being produced and sent to developers, but according to the time line within an article from around the pre and post E3 leaks all that would of been available to mimic the performance of lower end 7000 series cards was 4870-90 and the 5770, which was rather new on the market.

[Desert Punk]

I'm not going to go in to the difference between cpu power and gpu power again or the difference between pre-rendered video and video footage created using a game engine.

If the Wii U really is powerful a healthy subset of the games released for it should be PC quality conversions showing graphics well beyond 360 and PS3. What ever our expections of the console either high or low the only thing that really matters is what it actually is capable of which we will only know at release time.

[stupidvillager]

Well we already know that with early dev kits, gearbox already has aliens running at higher resolution and textures not possible or seen on PS360. So, I really am not to worried about the power. Yeah sure the next xbox and ps4 will be more powerful, but I think the Wii U will be able to stay in the game just fine.

[nintendofanboy]

I found that one of the reasons they need so much power, is because the information needs to be processed for the tablets as well, since they only receive date through the wireless connection. And that is also why you wont be able to play with 6 tablets at the same time.