38 replies to this topic

[Abcdude]

http://time.com/2987...r-marvel-woman/

 

You can't make this stuff up if you tried.

 

 

All "OMG SEXIST" screams aside, i'm interested how this will play out among fans.

 

[Raiden]

It's comics so this change won't be around long. Batman still have a broken back? Super Man still made of electricity? Cap America still dead?

 

No. Even if I read comics nothing to get upset over as Comics change thier minds more often than a germophope OCD man changes socks.

[grahamf]

It's comics so this change won't be around long. Batman still have a broken back? Super Man still made of electricity? Cap America still dead?

 

No. Even if I read comics nothing to get upset over as Comics change thier minds more often than a germophope OCD man changes socks.

Whaat? Superman made of electricity? So he could travel the intertubes and such?

[Raiden]

Whaat? Superman made of electricity? So he could travel the intertubes and such?

Not one but two supermen and blue was the real supes. His powers were changed and as clark he was 100% human. No powers.

[KeptMyWiiUAndLeftTheForums]

Whaat? Superman made of electricity? So he could travel the intertubes and such?

Yep. what Ryudo posted i right. Happened after he was killed by doomsday. That's how he was initially "revived". Then he eventually fused back to regular supes.

 

Anyway, it definitely feels like Marvel tries too hard to "EUQALITY FOR ALL!!!! WE LIKE EVERYONE FOR WHO THEY ARE!!!!!" sometimes, but usually the stories are still good.

LA good example is when they replaced Peter Parker with Miles Maroles. At first the whole "Guys, the new Spiderman is black and hispanic and might be gay! LOOK HOW ACCEPTING WE CAN BE!" is kind of a turn off, and makes you not want to touch the book with a ten foot pole, but when you actually read it it's actually really good.

Really REALLY good.

Dang I love Ultimate Spider man :')

[Raiden]

Yep. what Ryudo posted i right. Happened after he was killed by doomsday. That's how he was initially "revived". Then he eventually fused back to regular supes.

 

Nope. He was killed in 1992 and came back in 1993 as regular superman just had long hair,just in between we had stand in supermen like a new Superboy,Steel,Cyborg Superman and such. Have the comics next to me. Electric Supes was 1998 and was meant to gain new interest to help slagging sales. However people hhated this change and after a year or 2 they just dropped it and brought back regular Superman. They sorta shoved it under the rug like it never happened.

Edited by Ryudo, 15 July 2014 - 03:23 PM.

[3Dude]

So are we going back to 'Whomsoever picks up the hammer, should they be worthy, will command the powers of Thor'?

That would be cool, liked it better when don blake was like that, when Don picked up the hammer and powered up, instead of thor just pretending he was a human under the name don blake... and whatever the hell marvel tried to do with don after that.

Design is weak as hell though. Really weak. Thats a bummer.

F-all that design is BS. Mask is weak for a Thor. Weak and pathetic. Thor respects battle too much to not show face to the opponent. Vital organs exposed, actually showing skin on the lower sternum and over the small intestines, sleeveless top, and wtf a squeenix assymetrical one arm only guard? Really? Are they sure they dont want to put wrist funnels on her as well? All for 'lol its a female design, thats just what you do!' of course.

F that. Show the face, remove the 'conehead' helmet redesign, give her an actual jaw, Give full battle God armor the woven mythril or whatever woven mythril mail for arms and legs, and some fricking muscle bulk, doesnt need to be overboard heavy weight female body builder, but a good mid weight would be perfect, come on shes the God of Thunder now, not a cheerleader in Cosplay.

Meh.

[KeptMyWiiUAndLeftTheForums]

Nope. He was killed in 1992 and came back in 1993 as regular superman just had long hair,just in between we had stand in supermen like a new Superboy,Steel,Cyborg Superman and such. Have the comics next to me. Electric Supes was 1998 and was meant to gain new interest to help slagging sales. However people hhated this change and after a year or 2 they just dropped it and brought back regular Superman. They sorta shoved it under the rug like it never happened.

Hm. Must have gotten mixed up.

To be fair I only know this from the DK Guide to superman thingy that I read. I wasn't even born in 1992

[Xiombarg]

New storyline, but its not anything really new.  We've had different Thor stories before.

 

It would be neat if female Thor got her own hammer afterward, sort of like how Beta Ray Bill is Thor 2.0

[grahamf]

Thor is a strong independant Åsgaard woman who don't need no man.

Edited by grahamf, 15 July 2014 - 07:20 PM.

[Socalmuscle]

Lame.

Marvel created Thor using Norse mythology as the reference point.

It's just messing with too much.

Thor is a man. Everything about the makeup of the character is male.

And Thor is his freaking NAME. even before he had the hammer... His name was... You guessed it. Thor.

And the engraving read ..."if HE be worthy..."

Just wrong on every level.

Nothing sexist about it.

Just wrong. And stupid.

[3Dude]

Lame.

Marvel created Thor using Norse mythology as the reference point.

It's just messing with too much.

Thor is a man. Everything about the makeup of the character is male.

And Thor is his freaking NAME. even before he had the hammer... His name was... You guessed it. Thor.

And the engraving read ..."if HE be worthy..."

Just wrong on every level.

Nothing sexist about it.

Just wrong. And stupid.

It absolutely does say 'he'....


And it doesnt matter. Like wearing guys clothes if they want with 0 scrutiny, females get a bonus with technicalities in rules of gender pronouns as well.

Male specific terms like 'Man', 'he', 'his' and 'him' Can actually be used in a gender nuetral fashion.... And so... Jane foster, being worthy, claimed the powers of Thor when she laid hands on mijolner

[Socalmuscle]

It absolutely does say 'he'....And it doesnt matter. Like wearing guys clothes if they want with 0 scrutiny, females get a bonus with technicalities in rules of gender pronouns as well.Male specific terms like 'Man', 'he', 'his' and 'him' Can actually be used in a gender nuetral fashion.... And so... Jane foster, being worthy, claimed the powers of Thor when she laid hands on mijolner

He is a gender specific word (though there is modern debate on this now to retcon thinking through history) . They would be neutral.

But it doesn't matter. Wonder Woman held mjolnir...

And the idea of wheat looks to be Enchantress being Thor is just sad.

Leave the character alone.

Turn hulk into a girl. If this isn't "she-Thor" then she-hulk doesn't count. Or wolverine into a chick. Or while were at it, turn batman into a girl. But still call her batman. Since gender specific words carry no weight in comics.

It's an obvious ploy to attract more of a female readership that they may be missing. Nothing wrong with that. But it's a disservice to the real Thor character and fans.

[KeptMyWiiUAndLeftTheForums]

Lame.

Marvel created Thor using Norse mythology as the reference point.

It's just messing with too much.

Thor is a man. Everything about the makeup of the character is male.

And Thor is his freaking NAME. even before he had the hammer... His name was... You guessed it. Thor.

And the engraving read ..."if HE be worthy..."

Just wrong on every level.

Nothing sexist about it.

Just wrong. And stupid.

You're just sexist. It doesn't matter if they mess up norse culture it's more important they show that women are just as strong as men and completely equally represented in every way (except when in their favour of course). It's perfectly alright to step on a culture to empower women.

/s in case you couldn't tell.

 

Edit: Sorry about double post. Internet is moving slow as heck.

Edited by WydrA, 16 July 2014 - 01:15 AM.

[3Dude]

He is a gender specific word (though there is modern debate on this now to retcon thinking through history) . They would be neutral.

But it doesn't matter. Wonder Woman held mjolnir...

And the idea of wheat looks to be Enchantress being Thor is just sad.

Leave the character alone.

Turn hulk into a girl. If this isn't "she-Thor" then she-hulk doesn't count. Or wolverine into a chick. Or while were at it, turn batman into a girl. But still call her batman. Since gender specific words carry no weight in comics.

It's an obvious ploy to attract more of a female readership that they may be missing. Nothing wrong with that. But it's a disservice to the real Thor character and fans.

He is a gender specific word. However, like all Masculine gender specific words, it can be used gender nuetrally, ie 'Child of Man' 'Children of men', refer to the entirety of the species including females. They is technically a nonspecific term, as opposed to a gender nuetral one.

Modern English tends to stick with specifics and logic based in specificity, typically using masculine specific pronouns gender nuetrally today is used to give an inscription, or perhaps speaker, an ancient archaic, mysterious air. However, masculine pronouns being used gender nuetrally were in pretty wide popularity from the 1800's to the late 60's, and Silver age thor debuted in journey into mystery in 1962, which is when the inscription you are referring to using the specific word 'He' you are talking about here, was penned... Gender nuetrally.

Which is why the inscription still read the same, using the word 'He' when Jane Foster became Thor, I guess, unfortunately, ruining and betraying thor before you fans were... ever... Born.

Sorry.

[KeptMyWiiUAndLeftTheForums]

He is a gender specific word. However, like all Masculine gender specific words, it can be used gender nuetrally, ie 'Child of Man' 'Children of men', refer to the entirety of the species including females. They is technically a nonspecific term, as opposed to a gender nuetral one.

Modern English tends to stick with specifics and logic based in specificity, typically using masculine specific pronouns gender nuetrally today is used to give an inscription, or perhaps speaker, an ancient archaic, mysterious air. However, masculine pronouns being used gender nuetrally were in pretty wide popularity from the 1800's to the late 60's, and Silver age thor debuted in journey into mystery in 1962, which is when the inscription you are referring to using the specific word 'He' you are talking about here, was penned... Gender nuetrally.

Which is why the inscription still read the same, using the word 'He' when Jane Foster became Thor, I guess, unfortunately, ruining and betraying thor before you fans were... ever... Born.

Sorry.

Thor, however, is male. Straight. I've seen it put as "Her calling herself Thor is like calling herself Tony Stark" and it is. It's stupid. She should have a different name.

Also She-Hulk is a thing, and no one complains because Hulk was first. It only makes sense that she makes it clear she is the female version of a make superhero. If she hulk had been hulk first, hulk would either have gotten a new name or been called hulk man or something. The comment that "this isn't she thor or thor woman, it's just thor" is just an attempt to pander to the people trying to say that males and females are exactly the same. They're not.

Edited by WydrA, 16 July 2014 - 05:26 PM.

[3Dude]

WydrA, on 16 Jul 2014 - 9:13 PM, said:
Thor, however, is male. Straight. I've seen it put as "Her calling herself Thor is like calling herself Tony Stark" and it is. It's stupid. She should have a different name.
Also She-Hulk is a thing, and no one complains because Hulk was first. It only makes sense that she makes it clear she is the female version of a make superhero. If she hulk had been hulk first, hulk would either have gotten a new name or been called hulk man or something. The comment that "this isn't she thor or thor woman, it's just thor" is just an attempt to pander to the people trying to say that males and females are exactly the same. They're not.

Holy crap you are a bigot.

And no, it would be like her putting on Tony Starks Iron man suit.

Whoever holds the hammer Mijolnir becomes Thor by receiving the powers of the Thunder God through the hammer. It worked the same way as the gem of Cyttorak for Juggernaut. (Its almost like it was all written by the same guy...)

Its like, Written on the damn hammer in the first book, and the same inscription is actually shown again here in the picture I posted, from a book 40 years ago. So what, these conveinently mysterious shadow people went back in time 40 years to make Thor a girl the first time (Of several), so tht they could pander to themselves... now... all in order to ruin your boys club circle jerk?

Riiighhtttt....

You are literally 4 decades too late guy. Sorry.

Thats the way it was, and if thats the way they want it to go back to, they are going to go back to it.

[Xiombarg]

WyrdA, you know that Thor gets his power from the hammer, right?  It's called taking on the mantle of "Thor", son of Odin or not.

 

The original thor was a limping doctor who transformed like he-man.

Cap has been thor, Beta Ray Bill has been Thor, etc.  The new Thor is just like the other Thors, she shouldn't be called She-Thor; it would be like calling Captain America Captain-Thor.

[grahamf]

So to clarify: "Thor" is more of a title then a specific person's name?

[KeptMyWiiUAndLeftTheForums]

Holy crap you are a bigot.

And no, it would be like her putting on Tony Starks Iron man suit.

Whoever holds the hammer Mijolnir becomes Thor by receiving the powers of the Thunder God through the hammer. It worked the same way as the gem of Cyttorak for Juggernaut. (Its almost like it was all written by the same guy...)

Its like, Written on the damn hammer in the first book, and the same inscription is actually shown again here in the picture I posted, from a book 40 years ago. So what, these conveinently mysterious shadow people went back in time 40 years to make Thor a girl the first time (Of several), so tht they could pander to themselves... now... all in order to ruin your boys club circle jerk?

Riiighhtttt....

You are literally 4 decades too late guy. Sorry.

Thats the way it was, and if thats the way they want it to go back to, they are going to go back to it.

 

"Whosoever holds this hammer if he be worthy shall possess the power of the almighty Thor"

Not "Who soever holds this hammer is he be worth shall become Thor"

Thor is a name. I've checked the Wikipedia pages of both the original Thor from mythology and the comic character. Nowhere did I see mention of it being a title. Odin is Odin. That is his name. Athena is Athena, that is her name. Ra is Ra, that is his name.

Need I go on?

 

WyrdA, you know that Thor gets his power from the hammer, right?  It's called taking on the mantle of "Thor", son of Odin or not.

 

The original thor was a limping doctor who transformed like he-man.

Cap has been thor, Beta Ray Bill has been Thor, etc.  The new Thor is just like the other Thors, she shouldn't be called She-Thor; it would be like calling Captain America Captain-Thor.

 

Once again, it's not a title, it's his name. (Many) Names (and titles actually, if you still want to believe that's what it is) are gender specific. You don't run into girls called Nicholas, and you don't run into guys called Nicole, because those names were created to be gender specific and have been used that way for centuries.

If you switch the gender, you switch the name/title. That's the way it's always been. If this was the other way around, where a female was being switched with a guy (well first of all people would complain, (and rightly so) but also) the guy would take add man, or he or something to make it masculine. Because it's stupid for a hero to be running around fighting people with a name like Aphrodite. It's a girl's name.

 

Also just so we're clear, I don't support this change for the same reason I don't support black Wally West (which, incidentally, I also just found out about today). You don't need to change and already established character to try and represent an underrepresented type of people. Create a new frinking character for goodness sake. Instead of changing something that's already perfectly good, and just making the situation annoying and stupid for everyone involved, show some support for the characters you already have in those minorities, and make some new ones and support those. That way everyone is happy.

So to clarify: "Thor" is more of a title then a specific person's name?

No, not really. At least not until this happened.

Edited by WydrA, 16 July 2014 - 08:51 PM.