50 replies to this topic

[Raiden]

Thing also is PS3 first 2 years had quite a few of similar issues that Wii U has and had. Yet third parties gave PS3 a second chance but refuse to even give Wii U that second chance.

[KeptMyWiiUAndLeftTheForums]

I actually feel the opposite. I feel Nintendo is forcing me to go to Sony. I bought a Wii U shortly after launch planning for it to be the only system I owned...believing Nintendo when they said we'd get 3rd party support this gen. Now because of a few major screw ups on Nintendo's part, a seemingly lack of interest in marketing the Wii U or dedication in convincing 3rd parties to develop they've ran off 3rd party support. So now I'm being forced to spend an extra $400 on a second console. I do feel shafted, not gonna lie.

 

Nintendo's exclusives are second to none, no doubt. But they're all short games pretty much all of them are very beatable in 1-3 weeks. Less than a week if you really go on a gaming marathon. There's just not enough gameplay in the major 1st party nintendo games alone to allow me to stick with Nintendo exclusively unfortunately. And I'm not even a hardcore gamer. Some weeks I don't play at all. Most weeks I'm between 5-15 hours of play time.

 

I probably post more negative posts than most on this board and I try not to as I love Nintendo but I've just been so dissapointed by so many of Nintendo's bonehead moves this gen that it's hard not to be. Nintendo should be owning the industry right now, their 1st parties are heads above everyone elses. If they'd just get the 3rd party support it would be game over. Sony and Microsoft wouldn't have a chance.

 

OK /end rant.

Just in case you haven't quite gotten enough yet :

The lack of third party is not Nintendo's fault. Look at the Nintendo E3 presentation. llok at all those promised games and support from third parties. How many of those games did we actually get. Of those we got, how much effort was put into them? Look in between E3 and release and try and find solid proof of Nintendo doing anyhing to deserve the level of backstabbing they received.

Actually don't you'll just waste your time. Nintendo cares about their consumers. I'm willing to bet they even pulled back some launch window games so those third party turds could make money and so we could get as many games as we want. They were just let down as we were.

[alex15810]

I think all of you make good points that 3rd parties backed out. And they did, I'll give you that. But let me give you my 2 cents -

 

This whole awful domino effect in the end was Nintendo's fault. It's their job to make their console an attractive one for 3rd parties to develop games on, not vice versa. The 3rd parties are a business. If the console isn't profitable to develop or too risky to develop on then they have every right to take their developer hours to Sony and Microsoft.

 

Maybe Nintendo didn't directly cut off 3rd party support, but all of their dumb decisions like horrible marketing, horrendous year 1 game release schedule, flubbing the name of the console, making the console a challenge to develop on because of the decision not to make hardware competitive with Sony/Microsoft, ect. are all Nintendo's fault.

 

Maybe Nintendo doesn't deserve all the blame but they certainly deserve some if not most of it. Maybe 3rd parties gave up too soon but as I see it in the end it is mostly Nintendo's fault for not making the console attractive enough to 3rd parties.

Edited by alex15810, 22 August 2014 - 05:45 AM.

[DéliopT]

It`s true that some 3rd parties didn`t even try, it`s also true - and a lot more relevant - that Nintendo made some decisions that led to this situation.

 

Not attracting 3rd parties is actually the least of Nintendo´s problems. It´s how their consoles have been perceived that basically caused Nintendo`s decline in the home console business.

Ever since the N64 that Nintendo has been losing space in the home console market.
Nintendo lost games to newcomer Sony because of HW decisions;

Gamecube lost even more games and it`s kiddie image (the console aswell wasn`t that attractive) didn`t help the console at all;

when XB and PS2 started online gaming, Nintendo did nothing;

when PS3 and XB360 came blazing with great graphics, online gaming and communities, online accounts, Nintendo did nothing.

 

Ever since the SNES, Nintendo has been doing it`s thing but hasn`t evolved to the point of actually going after other core gamers. And as such those other core gamers have found their place in PS and XBOX.

 

There, they found the games and enviroment they desired.

Nintendo doesn`t need to stop being Nintendo, they just need to step up and realize that`s not enough and offer something more.

 

Wii U owners go buy AC, CoD, ME, Batman on the other consoles because it`s in those other consoles that those games do fit. Online, DLC, best graphics, etc., you name it. 

[Raiden]

when XB and PS2 started online gaming, Nintendo did nothing;

Nintendo was online before they even made consoles dude. Famicom had a LAN system. SNES had Xband and could play Street Fighter II online as other games officially supported by 3rd parties. SNES also had DLC with BS Zelda. N64 was online with the N64DD and had DLC. Dreamcast is the one that kick started online to be mainstream and even had DLC for games like Skies of Arcadia and downloadable games. Original Xbox used Dreamcast focus groups to develop Xbox itself and XBL originally was modeled after SEGANET. What you meant to say is Gamecube did not have a dedicated service in place. It was online however with Phantasy Star Online. Also Double Dash you could do LAN parties. That said yes Gamecube was lackluster for online.

[DéliopT]

Nintendo was online before they even made consoles dude. Famicom had a LAN system. SNES had Xband and could play Street Fighter II online as other games officially supported by 3rd parties. SNES also had DLC with BS Zelda. N64 was online with the N64DD and had DLC. Dreamcast is the one that kick started online to be mainstream and even had DLC for games like Skies of Arcadia and downloadable games. Original Xbox used Dreamcast focus groups to develop Xbox itself and XBL originally was modeled after SEGANET. What you meant to say is Gamecube did not have a dedicated service in place. It was online however with Phantasy Star Online. Also Double Dash you could do LAN parties. That said yes Gamecube was lackluster for online.

 

It`s as you say, Nintendo did something with online way back, but in terms of actual going with it and have a full service, Sega really was the first one - i still remember the "up to 6 billion" line for their ads.

About Gamecube, yes, that was what i was trying to say.

[KeptMyWiiUAndLeftTheForums]

I think all of you make good points that 3rd parties backed out. And they did, I'll give you that. But let me give you my 2 cents -

 

This whole awful domino effect in the end was Nintendo's fault. It's their job to make their console an attractive one for 3rd parties to develop games on, not vice versa. The 3rd parties are a business. If the console isn't profitable to develop or too risky to develop on then they have every right to take their developer hours to Sony and Microsoft.

 

Maybe Nintendo didn't directly cut off 3rd party support, but all of their dumb decisions like horrible marketing, horrendous year 1 game release schedule, flubbing the name of the console, making the console a challenge to develop on because of the decision not to make hardware competitive with Sony/Microsoft, ect. are all Nintendo's fault.

 

Maybe Nintendo doesn't deserve all the blame but they certainly deserve some if not most of it. Maybe 3rd parties gave up too soon but as I see it in the end it is mostly Nintendo's fault for not making the console attractive enough to 3rd parties.

 

It's only Nintnedo's job to make the console attractive to a extent. Easy to develop for (they did that) a non hostile, welcoming environment (they did that) and making it easy to get dev packs (they did that). Yes, promised sales are also important, but not int this case. EA, Ubi and all the other devs that back-stabbed ninty didn't know what the sales were going to be because they all dropped support and backed out before release. Before sales numbers even existed. All those were excuses you gave are also non excuses. The name: All the companies were obviously aware of the name of the console. Look at the E3 presentation. it wasn't "here's our new console that hasn't been named yet." It was "Here is our new console, the Wii U. Let's hear what our third party devs have to say." and then the third parties talked about the console. And then they said it's name. They were aware.

Develoment for the Wii U is pretty easy. Easy enough that if the third parties put any real effort towards developing on the system they would be able to make great games in no time. Just look at what indies say about workingwith it. They're constantly praising the unexpected ease and power. This is just another lame full of crap excuse the third parties made. Are the Xbone and PS4 easier to develop for? Yes. Is this an excuse for their stupidity? No. First of all, the WIi U was out a full year before these two. There was no comparison to be made for that whole year. Ye support was pulled in that time. Not only that, games like Crysis 3, where the dev team had alreeady figured out how to work with the system and pretty much finished the game were still cancelled. For what? Because the Xbone is easier to dev for? That makes no sense.

So the third parities pulled out simply because they're massive vegetas. Now what was supposed to be a strong launch window is not strong launch window. And who do they blame? Nintendo. Not themselves for being massive dickholes, but Nintendo because they didn't do this or that or a bunch of other small things. In reality it's what people have been saying from day one. A lack of games. Something the third parties themselves were supposed to solve. Oh, but the icing on the cake? They then use poor year one sales an excue to stop backing Nintendo. You see how that's massive douhebaggery right? Also, Wii u is still more profitable to develop for than Xbone, but who are the companies supporting more?

An even better example of this docuhebaggery; the 3DS is the best selling and oldest console this gen. You know how may games EA has developed for it? Two. TWO. What's their excuse? Promised sales are there. Easy development is there. Welcoming environment is there.

And in case you didn't know (you probably didn't) that is the smallest number of games for any of the gen 8 systems. Most sales, least games, because that makes sense, right? And it totally lines up with their excuse on the WIi U, right?

 

Anyway, I'll be that guy and answer my onw question. Western "triple a" devs don't like Nintendo. That's their excuse. And I'm pretty sure a big part of that dislike is because Nintendo refuses to beg and pay them to bring their games to Nintendo consoles. A practice which should not be happening and only hurts  the game industry more than it's already being hurt.

It`s true that some 3rd parties didn`t even try, it`s also true - and a lot more relevant - that Nintendo made some decisions that led to this situation.

 

Not attracting 3rd parties is actually the least of Nintendo´s problems. It´s how their consoles have been perceived that basically caused Nintendo`s decline in the home console business.

Ever since the N64 that Nintendo has been losing space in the home console market.
Nintendo lost games to newcomer Sony because of HW decisions;

Gamecube lost even more games and it`s kiddie image (the console aswell wasn`t that attractive) didn`t help the console at all;

when XB and PS2 started online gaming, Nintendo did nothing;

when PS3 and XB360 came blazing with great graphics, online gaming and communities, online accounts, Nintendo did nothing.

 

Ever since the SNES, Nintendo has been doing it`s thing but hasn`t evolved to the point of actually going after other core gamers. And as such those other core gamers have found their place in PS and XBOX.

 

There, they found the games and enviroment they desired.

Nintendo doesn`t need to stop being Nintendo, they just need to step up and realize that`s not enough and offer something more.

 

Wii U owners go buy AC, CoD, ME, Batman on the other consoles because it`s in those other consoles that those games do fit. Online, DLC, best graphics, etc., you name it. 

How their console is percieved is also largely their competitors fault. They purposely team up on nintendo and tell people they're little kids if they play Nintendo games. Westerners are just stupid enough to believe it.

You're forgetting the Wii, DS and 3ds in your argument. Three kind of huge exceptions.

Also what you said about best graphics dlc etc. are not on Nintendo's shoulders. Is Nintendo supposed to develop third parties' ports now?

[DéliopT]

How their console is percieved is also largely their competitors fault. They purposely team up on nintendo and tell people they're little kids if they play Nintendo games. Westerners are just stupid enough to believe it.

You're forgetting the Wii, DS and 3ds in your argument. Three kind of huge exceptions.

Also what you said about best graphics dlc etc. are not on Nintendo's shoulders. Is Nintendo supposed to develop third parties' ports now?

 

I was speaking about the home console business. It`s there that Nintendo is losing a lot of ground.
Wii was the exception because it went after the casual gamer and the non-gamer, and it won that fight. But what it won in one market, it lost in the other: the core gamer mindshare.

 

When i spoke of graphics, online, DLC, etc., i only mentioned those points because gamers expect to have it all on Sony and MS' consoles.
They expect it because that`s what they are used to getting. That´s what MS and Sony`s strategy got them.

Nintendo tried with the Wii U to attract the core gamer - at least they said they wanted to, even before Wii U launched - but their strategy for their own console and games showed the opposite.

It`s not 3rd parties fault that the Wii U failed. Even if the games on Wii U were on par with the competition, Wii U would still have failed. And because of a thing called strategy, that Nintendo lacked.

[Raiden]

The terms casual gamer and core gamer are incredibly subjective. Call of Duty can easily be considered casual.  Donkey Kong Tropical Freeze is more "core" due to it's difficulty. . The only thing that has failed here is how gaming is so wide spread now every idiot who can play is playing and the idiots out number the people who can actually think. Companies like EA,Ubisoft,Activision know this and make money off these dolts.

 

These idiots use subjective terms in a specific manner to feel better about themselves and put down others.  Nintendo can't cure stupid.

[KeptMyWiiUAndLeftTheForums]

I was speaking about the home console business. It`s there that Nintendo is losing a lot of ground.
Wii was the exception because it went after the casual gamer and the non-gamer, and it won that fight. But what it won in one market, it lost in the other: the core gamer mindshare.

 

When i spoke of graphics, online, DLC, etc., i only mentioned those points because gamers expect to have it all on Sony and MS' consoles.
They expect it because that`s what they are used to getting. That´s what MS and Sony`s strategy got them.

Nintendo tried with the Wii U to attract the core gamer - at least they said they wanted to, even before Wii U launched - but their strategy for their own console and games showed the opposite.

It`s not 3rd parties fault that the Wii U failed. Even if the games on Wii U were on par with the competition, Wii U would still have failed. And because of a thing called strategy, that Nintendo lacked.

Well honestly, like Ryudo said, the "core gamers" you're describing aren't really core gamers.

The word you're looking for is "drones"

or maybe "zombies"

perhaps "mindless slaves"

Oops, that one is two.

My point is that those people don't really play gaming simply for the joy of gaming, and aren't open to paying any game simply because it's a good experience. To be honest, I'm happier without them owning Wii U's, because they would kill the console's atmosphere. Wii u owners have bought the WIi U because it's made for gaming and it does it's job phenomenally well. Unlike with the systems you're implying core gamers own, where most of the people have fallen victim to a ridiculous ad campaign and even more ridiculous word of mouth that comes from it.

[DéliopT]

Well honestly, like Ryudo said, the "core gamers" you're describing aren't really core gamers.

The word you're looking for is "drones"

or maybe "zombies"

perhaps "mindless slaves"

Oops, that one is two.

My point is that those people don't really play gaming simply for the joy of gaming, and aren't open to paying any game simply because it's a good experience. To be honest, I'm happier without them owning Wii U's, because they would kill the console's atmosphere. Wii u owners have bought the WIi U because it's made for gaming and it does it's job phenomenally well. Unlike with the systems you're implying core gamers own, where most of the people have fallen victim to a ridiculous ad campaign and even more ridiculous word of mouth that comes from it.

 

I think you are giving millions and millions of gamers too little credit.

People aren`t blind. They see what companies have to offer and even there`s a handful of people trying to attack some game or console, either they agree or they don´t.

Try calling XBox kiddie and no one will believe it.

 

There were always people claiming that would they play is better than the competition because it`s from Nintendo, Sega, Sony or MS. In that regard, nothing changed. You didn`t need companies to tell you that. We did that by ourselves.

[KeptMyWiiUAndLeftTheForums]

I think you are giving millions and millions of gamers too little credit.

People aren`t blind. They see what companies have to offer and even there`s a handful of people trying to attack some game or console, either they agree or they don´t.

Try calling XBox kiddie and no one will believe it.

 

There were always people claiming that would they play is better than the competition because it`s from Nintendo, Sega, Sony or MS. In that regard, nothing changed. You didn`t need companies to tell you that. We did that by ourselves.

You're giving them way too much credit. Like I said they don't actually research what competitors have to offer. The vast majority of people just look at advertisement and whatever crap their friends -who also don't actually know crap- tell them. Why do you think so many people are ticked Bayonetta 2 is a Wii u exclusive? The Wii u is offering something they're interested in, but they simply don't want to buy it because sony, microsoft and all their big boy friends say nintendo is for kiddies. And they're no kid. They stopped wearing huggies a whole two years ago!

The sad, sad, sad, sad ,sad fact is, most people are too frinking lazy or too frinking stupid to do their own research and will believe almost any advertisement they see, even though 99% of advertisements are practically lies, and blow stuff way out of proportion (if they don't just straight up make things up (I'm looking at you beats)).

Those who know better often blind themselves to the fact they know they're wasting their money to fit in.

[Raiden]

You're giving them way too much credit. Like I said they don't actually research what competitors have to offer. The vast majority of people just look at advertisement and whatever crap their friends -who also don't actually know crap- tell them. Why do you think so many people are ticked Bayonetta 2 is a Wii u exclusive? The Wii u is offering something they're interested in, but they simply don't want to buy it because sony, microsoft and all their big boy friends say nintendo is for kiddies. And they're no kid. They stopped wearing huggies a whole two years ago!

The sad, sad, sad, sad ,sad fact is, most people are too frinking lazy or too frinking stupid to do their own research and will believe almost any advertisement they see, even though 99% of advertisements are practically lies, and blow stuff way out of proportion (if they don't just straight up make things up (I'm looking at you beats)).

Those who know better often blind themselves to the fact they know they're wasting their money to fit in.

If you ever worked in a game store you will find wydra is 100% dead on correct. I had the displeasure of being a manager of a GS and it was this.

[DéliopT]

You're giving them way too much credit. Like I said they don't actually research what competitors have to offer. The vast majority of people just look at advertisement and whatever crap their friends -who also don't actually know crap- tell them. Why do you think so many people are ticked Bayonetta 2 is a Wii u exclusive? The Wii u is offering something they're interested in, but they simply don't want to buy it because sony, microsoft and all their big boy friends say nintendo is for kiddies. And they're no kid. They stopped wearing huggies a whole two years ago!

The sad, sad, sad, sad ,sad fact is, most people are too frinking lazy or too frinking stupid to do their own research and will believe almost any advertisement they see, even though 99% of advertisements are practically lies, and blow stuff way out of proportion (if they don't just straight up make things up (I'm looking at you beats)).

Those who know better often blind themselves to the fact they know they're wasting their money to fit in.

 

On things like what the machines can do or have to offer, gamers are more aware of. And it`s those things that people seem to care or at least talk them a lot.

Things like how great graphics are, online communities, apps, streaming, account system, achievements, etc., those things are not the result of propaganda or false information, it`s what any owner of a console has or doesn`t have.

 

It´s not that there isn`t a marketing team behind a product to try and sell it - 'cause there is and always will be - it`s just that some things are just obvious to people.

 

I don`t disagree with you and i don`t think you disagree with me, we are just talking about different aspects of what a gamer knows and how he knows them.

[KeptMyWiiUAndLeftTheForums]

On things like what the machines can do or have to offer, gamers are more aware of. And it`s those things that people seem to care or at least talk them a lot.

Things like how great graphics are, online communities, apps, streaming, account system, achievements, etc., those things are not the result of propaganda or false information, it`s what any owner of a console has or doesn`t have.

 

It´s not that there isn`t a marketing team behind a product to try and sell it - 'cause there is and always will be - it`s just that some things are just obvious to people.

 

I don`t disagree with you and i don`t think you disagree with me, we are just talking about different aspects of what a gamer knows and how he knows them.

 

Ignoring the fact that these things aren't even what gaming should be about...

Most gamers don't really know how powerful their machine is. hat's why You can still to this day get most people to argue about if the PS3 or Xbox 360 is more powerful. Even those that do are making up excuses as to why their purchasing the system they're purchasing. If power is as important as they pretend, they would all join PC "master race".

 

Things should be obvious to people. If people actually did their frinking homework. If they weren't lazy as heck and dd more than just sare at the TV with their mouths oen and believe everything they see they would realize so, so, so, many of the things they are interested in buying are ripoffs. They would realize that 99% of people around them are idiots, and are being pulled by their dick to follow the crowd and play right into crappy multimillion/multibillion dollar companies, therefore logically, you shouldn't take their advice when they tel you that "Beats are the best headphones ever" or that "MacBooks never crash and have the world's best virus protection" or that "PS3 is the best because only wimpy little girls don't like sportsportsports, and killing"

 

People have no clue. No frinking clue about just how frinking commercialized everything is. That most of the times they buy into something, there is something that is higher quality, that they like more, that they can get for cheaper. And when they find out, they are so scared, so terrified of not being part of the in-crowd hat they will lie to themselves, and ignore the evidence to fit in.  I'm not theorizing this. I'm talking from exerience I am describing everyone -and I mean just about everyone- I know. Th fun part? It's getting worse. The more screens people spend their time wrapped up in, the more advertisement they see, and the more they fall into the trap. Also, because the education system is ailing to teach wisdom over knowledge people don't know how to frinking think for themselves anymore. They see a graph on the internet saying "90% of Wii owners hate their system and 90% of PS3 owners love their system" and they don't know to check the source. They see some "experiment" saying this or that, and they don't question the details, and that maybe there were other contributing factors than whatever news site they're trying to propagate is on.

And the wonderful combination of the two leads a level of confirmation bias that is unmatched by any generation previous to ours. Now its easier than ever for people to only read things that support their views.

Ad that's why you the console war has turned so bad. That's why everything that used to be difference of opinion has turned essentially into wars. No one has thought objectively about their views. they haven't looked at good arguments opposing their views. At most they've looked at the easy, often made up arguments people with their own views have "responded" to. So now they don't realize hat people can have a different view than them and have good reason. You bring up the possibility that Nintendo is the best gaming company right now? "No. NO. Because all the sites I look at to confirm my bias say otherwise, and as far as I'm concerned the other view practically doesn't exist. I refuse to believe it." You ever see what happens when you try and press the issue? Pretty much always the same thing. Name calling or the "I'm ignoring because you're just stupid" treatment.  Because they can't actually back up their opinion. They've never seen any actual arguments against it, so how they supposed defend against it? All they can do is spout what their sites and TV shows are teaching them. "Anyone who doesn't have our view is an uniformed idiot." 

 

TL;DR People are undeniably stupid, and willingly getting stupider.

[DéliopT]

Ignoring the fact that these things aren't even what gaming should be about...

Most gamers don't really know how powerful their machine is. hat's why You can still to this day get most people to argue about if the PS3 or Xbox 360 is more powerful. Even those that do are making up excuses as to why their purchasing the system they're purchasing. If power is as important as they pretend, they would all join PC "master race".

 

Things should be obvious to people. If people actually did their frinking homework. If they weren't lazy as heck and dd more than just sare at the TV with their mouths oen and believe everything they see they would realize so, so, so, many of the things they are interested in buying are ripoffs. They would realize that 99% of people around them are idiots, and are being pulled by their dick to follow the crowd and play right into crappy multimillion/multibillion dollar companies, therefore logically, you shouldn't take their advice when they tel you that "Beats are the best headphones ever" or that "MacBooks never crash and have the world's best virus protection" or that "PS3 is the best because only wimpy little girls don't like sportsportsports, and killing"

 

People have no clue. No frinking clue about just how frinking commercialized everything is. That most of the times they buy into something, there is something that is higher quality, that they like more, that they can get for cheaper. And when they find out, they are so scared, so terrified of not being part of the in-crowd hat they will lie to themselves, and ignore the evidence to fit in.  I'm not theorizing this. I'm talking from exerience I am describing everyone -and I mean just about everyone- I know. Th fun part? It's getting worse. The more screens people spend their time wrapped up in, the more advertisement they see, and the more they fall into the trap. Also, because the education system is ailing to teach wisdom over knowledge people don't know how to frinking think for themselves anymore. They see a graph on the internet saying "90% of Wii owners hate their system and 90% of PS3 owners love their system" and they don't know to check the source. They see some "experiment" saying this or that, and they don't question the details, and that maybe there were other contributing factors than whatever news site they're trying to propagate is on.

And the wonderful combination of the two leads a level of confirmation bias that is unmatched by any generation previous to ours. Now its easier than ever for people to only read things that support their views.

Ad that's why you the console war has turned so bad. That's why everything that used to be difference of opinion has turned essentially into wars. No one has thought objectively about their views. they haven't looked at good arguments opposing their views. At most they've looked at the easy, often made up arguments people with their own views have "responded" to. So now they don't realize hat people can have a different view than them and have good reason. You bring up the possibility that Nintendo is the best gaming company right now? "No. NO. Because all the sites I look at to confirm my bias say otherwise, and as far as I'm concerned the other view practically doesn't exist. I refuse to believe it." You ever see what happens when you try and press the issue? Pretty much always the same thing. Name calling or the "I'm ignoring because you're just stupid" treatment.  Because they can't actually back up their opinion. They've never seen any actual arguments against it, so how they supposed defend against it? All they can do is spout what their sites and TV shows are teaching them. "Anyone who doesn't have our view is an uniformed idiot." 

 

TL;DR People are undeniably stupid, and willingly getting stupider.

 

Most people don`t understand the tech stuff but they can get a sense on how powerful something is, specially when the result is on screen.
Of course, it started there and then went to just how powerful the console is. Doesn`t matter if the difference is there, what matters for X console to be better than Y console is how powerful it is. And because of that, poor old Wii U gets put aside.
With that i agree. But of course some things do instantly separate, for example, a Wii U from a XB1. XB1, by itself, is a better product than Wii U. And those things do matter to a lot of people because they do use it or take advantage of them when they feel like it.

 

Such is the power of marketing - coupled with our love for shiny things.

What you speak of has always existed, even though, with the advent of the internet and it`s tools, it became a lot easier the spread the word on a product.

 

Console wars existed during the Nintendo - Sega days. The only difference was that it was localized as there were no websites or online forums to discuss these things. Discussion occured amongst your friends on how Sonic is a better game than Mario. That was basically it.

Unfortunately, thanks to the companies themselves (look at Sega`s marketing during the NES and SNES days) led to this. They pointed out how the other guy is weak, etc.

[KeptMyWiiUAndLeftTheForums]

Most people don`t understand the tech stuff but they can get a sense on how powerful something is, specially when the result is on screen.
Of course, it started there and then went to just how powerful the console is. Doesn`t matter if the difference is there, what matters for X console to be better than Y console is how powerful it is. And because of that, poor old Wii U gets put aside.
With that i agree. But of course some things do instantly separate, for example, a Wii U from a XB1. XB1, by itself, is a better product than Wii U. And those things do matter to a lot of people because they do use it or take advantage of them when they feel like it.

 

Such is the power of marketing - coupled with our love for shiny things.

What you speak of has always existed, even though, with the advent of the internet and it`s tools, it became a lot easier the spread the word on a product.

 

Console wars existed during the Nintendo - Sega days. The only difference was that it was localized as there were no websites or online forums to discuss these things. Discussion occured amongst your friends on how Sonic is a better game than Mario. That was basically it.

Unfortunately, thanks to the companies themselves (look at Sega`s marketing during the NES and SNES days) led to this. They pointed out how the other guy is weak, etc.

Nope. Most people do not understand.

Wii U is not put aside because of power. If it was the most powerful system this gen, they would be in the same position.Despite how powerful the Wii U currently is, there is still a huge number of people whi thinks it's less powerful than ast gen's consoles. Nintendo can not win with the western "hardcore" market, because that market is largely concerned with trying to be as "manly" as possible.

 

Also you are very, very, very much in the minority thinking Xbone is a better product than Wii U. You thinking that is the actual power of marketing.

 

I also specifically stated that console wars are worse now. I know there have been many before the internet was big.

[DéliopT]

Nope. Most people do not understand.

Wii U is not put aside because of power. If it was the most powerful system this gen, they would be in the same position.Despite how powerful the Wii U currently is, there is still a huge number of people whi thinks it's less powerful than ast gen's consoles. Nintendo can not win with the western "hardcore" market, because that market is largely concerned with trying to be as "manly" as possible.

 

Also you are very, very, very much in the minority thinking Xbone is a better product than Wii U. You thinking that is the actual power of marketing.

 

I also specifically stated that console wars are worse now. I know there have been many before the internet was big.

 

Nintendo can win the same way Sony took that crown from Nintendo and Sega, and this generation it`s kicking MS`s behind despite XB being a very powerful brand in the States.

Despite what people say, gamers go where they feel their home is.

 

It`s not the product of marketing, it`s a fact. Not just in terms of specs, but what you can do. Miiverse is Nintendo`s only trumpt card.

[KeptMyWiiUAndLeftTheForums]

Nintendo can win the same way Sony took that crown from Nintendo and Sega, and this generation it`s kicking MS`s behind despite XB being a very powerful brand in the States.

Despite what people say, gamers go where they feel their home is.

 

It`s not the product of marketing, it`s a fact. Not just in terms of specs, but what you can do. Miiverse is Nintendo`s only trumpt card.

I don't think there's any point in continuing this discussion. Now you're just being ridiculous.

[DéliopT]

I don't think there's any point in continuing this discussion. Now you're just being ridiculous.

 

To be clear, i don`t expect Nintendo to win over all the core crowd, but if they play their cards right for next generation, they really can regain a lot of that crowd.
It would be a miracle if they could outsell Sony and MS without all the 3rd party support.