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Bloodborne - The first 18 minutes of gameplay


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#21 3Dude

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Posted 04 March 2015 - 09:33 AM

Mmmm I could never get into Monster Hunter I'm afraid. It just didn't reel me in like Dark Souls. I may have to try this Kings Field though. It's on the PS1 right? Does it look hideous if you play it now then?

Speaking of the devil. Gamesradar recently redid their top 100 games of all time. Guess what came in top? Quite a shock actually: http://www.gamesrada...est-games-ever/


Its not really a shock at all. The school of design souls/field comes from craps flaming terd meteors on modern AAAAAAAAAAAA design from deep outer space. The only problem was fooling the idiotic girnoliz and lazy complacant conditioned audience to spend enough time with it to learn its not broken, just demanding. The industry is built on hype, at the expense of attacking what came before. Its a cult of hype, all controlled by marketing. The surest way to get people hyped about something that is great, but theyve been brainwashed into believing 'old and obsolete gameplay' is to remake/rename it, and market the crap out of it.

Thats why we had gamzgirnoliz crapping their pants over the kings quest remake, when not a single one of them ever played, or even knew what the hell kings quest was (Despite the adventurer/Graham having a cameo in the most explosively popular, ALSO old school designed game of the past decade).

http://www.gamasutra...own_history.php

Kings field started on psx and in 1st person, but went all the way to kings field 4 on ps2, and was going to be kings field 5 on ps3, until Sony stepped in and used their publishing power to make a ridiculously successful name/franchise change from Kings field 5 to Demons souls.

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#22 Marcus

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Posted 04 March 2015 - 12:09 PM

Lol did you write that article on gamasutra? Or can I be rude about it?

 

I started the Elder Scrolls at Morrowind and I still think Skyrim's the best in the series.


Edited by MarcusT, 04 March 2015 - 12:16 PM.


#23 3Dude

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Posted 04 March 2015 - 12:39 PM

Lol did you write that article on gamasutra? Or can I be rude about it?
 
I started the Elder Scrolls at Morrowind and I still think Skyrim's the best in the series.




You are exactly what they are talking about. Youve played less than half the series, and think you know the latest one is the 'best'. A very rare opinion in the elder scrolls circles by the way. Very, very, very, little has changed in elderscrolls over the decades, beyond the graphics. Its simply gotten smaller, and smaller, and smaller, with less, and less, and less in it. A magic gimmick and 'shouts' dont do much to offput that.

'It's very important to make consumers feel that they are living at the very best gaming period ever, that there's no time like now. Hype is built by telling people how expansive Skyrim's world is, not how miniscule it is compared to Daggerfall or Arena. Similarly, you can't release a new XCOM and let everyone know that the original game had way more tactical options and randomly generated maps. And it isn't nice to mention how Baldur's Gate 2 had 298 spells while Dragon Age: Origins only has 96.

Now, a sequel doesn't need to always expand upon the previous game, but it should at least be aware of its shortcomings and offer something in exchange. And although there's a mantra being repeated about how far games have evolved, a more critical view will show you that little has been offered in the past 15 years besides better graphics.'

'Gaming was pasteurized in the last decade by the multi-platform frenzy and the pursuit of larger and larger audiences at any cost.'

'As you said, we lost depth and complexity, that were never replaced. I not against making streamlined games, but I want to play old-school games as well. Instead, we have dishonesty, empty promises.'


http://www.gamasutra...ing_history.php

'And thank the "outdated" Japanese industry for Ninja Gaiden and Demon's/Dark Souls'

And now, we can thank the 'outdated' and lets not forget 'backwards' Japanese industry for Bloodbourne.

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#24 Marcus

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Posted 05 March 2015 - 08:29 AM

You are exactly what they are talking about. Youve played less than half the series, and think you know the latest one is the 'best'. A very rare opinion in the elder scrolls circles by the way. Very, very, very, little has changed in elderscrolls over the decades, beyond the graphics. Its simply gotten smaller, and smaller, and smaller, with less, and less, and less in it. A magic gimmick and 'shouts' dont do much to offput that.
 

 

I'm not who he's talking about at all because I wouldn't consider myself anything close to being a hardcore Elder Scrolls fan. I agree that if people call themselves hardcore fans, it's a bit silly to have an opinion without having played all the games. 

The only reason I'm comfortable saying that after only having played 3/5 of the series is because I've listened to a lot of people who are into the series and almost never have I heard anyone say Arena or Daggerfall are the best. It seems to usually be Morrowind.

 

But my larger complaint is that I don't think this narrative he's stitched together actually describes reality (a pretty typical indicator is when someone has to base their theory on a personal anecdote rather than on some data we can check). It might roughly describe how the business side tries to operate but it doesn't describe people's opinions. If you to any of the fanbases for the long running game series, you almost never find that people just all love the latest game the most. The Final Fantasy fanbases usually like 6 or 7 the most. The Zelda fanbases usually like A Link to the Past or Ocarina the most. The Mario fanbases usually like Super Mario World or Mario 64 the most. What he's called a "normative force" absolutely exists. 


Edited by MarcusT, 05 March 2015 - 08:30 AM.


#25 3Dude

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Posted 07 March 2015 - 08:24 AM

I'm not who he's talking about at all because I wouldn't consider myself anything close to being a hardcore Elder Scrolls fan. I agree that if people call themselves hardcore fans, it's a bit silly to have an opinion without having played all the games. 
The only reason I'm comfortable saying that after only having played 3/5 of the series is because I've listened to a lot of people who are into the series and almost never have I heard anyone say Arena or Daggerfall are the best. It seems to usually be Morrowind.
 
But my larger complaint is that I don't think this narrative he's stitched together actually describes reality (a pretty typical indicator is when someone has to base their theory on a personal anecdote rather than on some data we can check). It might roughly describe how the business side tries to operate but it doesn't describe people's opinions. If you to any of the fanbases for the long running game series, you almost never find that people just all love the latest game the most. The Final Fantasy fanbases usually like 6 or 7 the most. The Zelda fanbases usually like A Link to the Past or Ocarina the most. The Mario fanbases usually like Super Mario World or Mario 64 the most. What he's called a "normative force" absolutely exists.


Did you just seriously use historic japanese games in an example of how western industry marketing is curating its gaming history for indoctrination? Seriously? That doesnt even make sense! You didnt notice how not A SINGLE ONE OF YOUR EXAMPLES was a western game? How they were ALL Japanese?


You can NOT compare fans of Japanese games to fans of Western games, the problems being talked about here are EXCLUSIVE to how the western side of the industry curates its history by crapping all over it, and how their audience is joyfully brainwashed by it. The vast majority of the Japanese studios DO NOT engage in the same AAAAAAAAAAAAAAA Marketing scheme tactics being described here, in fact, the only one who does successfully OWNS several of the biggest western studios around. Nintendo DOES NOT do this AT ALL. And the fact you even TRIED to insinuate this about a company thats CONSTANTLY bringing up and celebrating its history really shows me you are not tracking at all.

The Japanese companies that do this, have by and large destroyed themselves (See Capcom, square Eeenix) Because that audience HATES that AAAAAAAAAAA Marketing BS the Western audience waits for, mouths gaping gulping it by the gallon. You can NOT tell them that a game thats crap is better than the ones that came before it with marketing. You CANT tell them 'DmC is better than DMC because it has the FEEL of 60fps, even though its only 30 FPS'. You CANT tell them that the reason they didnt like DmC was simply because 'We changed Dante's hair' when they know DAMN well the games been watered down so that it can be played by a moron whos only capable of slapping his balls across the controller ie the average western 'gamer'.

Japanese game fans, KNOW their history, and they are NOT afraid to state some new game in the series is nothing more than flashy crap compared to an old one. In fact they are so paranoid, that for a lot of them thats basically the default response whether they played the game or not. The same can NOT be said about the western AAAAAAAAA audience. COMPLETELY incomparable.




Arena was amazing for its time, but its combat and functions have not held up well (Neither has the entirety of the series as far as combat was concerned, even skyrim has outdated 90's combat). But the series was never about the combat... Until the latest entries, that forgot that the combat sucked and was just something people put up with, because the sense of journey and exploration was so immense.

Daggerfall plays exactly like a modern elder scrolls title, minus the god awful enemy and loot scaling (Stupid STUPID decision), and is 2,000 times bigger than skyrim. People are STILL finding new places and dungeons never seen before by anyone else. The reason you never see anyone bring it up, is because most of them dont know it even EXISTS.

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#26 Marcus

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Posted 09 March 2015 - 03:47 PM

When did you specify this was about western games? He doesn't say that anywhere in his article. That's what I was responding to!

 

But either way, I accepted that it's a fairly accurate description of the business side of things. Jim Sterling pointed out in a recent video how many times Peter Molyneux had said that his previous game was crap just before his newest came out. The part I was criticising was this as a description of gamer's attitudes. When it comes to actual attitudes, it doesn't seem particularly relevant where the games are coming from (unless you're suggesting people systematically have different attitudes depending on the game's origin). I'm fairly sure you can point to the exact same phenomena with western games. I could link to any number of articles or videos that argue how much worse FPSs have got in the last decade (more or less the analogous argument you hear about JRPGs) and those are some of the most heavily hyped games in existence. Total Biscuit did a good one 

 

I just don't buy the idea that if people don't know everything about past games, they're defenseless idiots ripe for controlling by marketing departments. I think your knowledge of the past is largely orthogonal to such gullibility.



#27 Raiden

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Posted 12 March 2015 - 05:33 PM

Elder Scrolls series been terrible past ESII and 3dude explained why. It's a shame Ubisoft owns Might and Magic and EA owns Ultima. It's a real shame the first RPG series is dead thanks to EA. EA killed another good western RPG in Kingdoms of Amalur. It has some issues but can be ironed out. Dragon Age Origins was pretty darn good but console ports suffered. Thankfully CD Prokekt can still make western RPGs as oddly fewer studios making them than JRPG styled games. Square killed off Dungeon Siege series. When people think western RPG they think Elder Scrolls even tho it's the worst of the bunch. When people look at a JRPG they think of Final Fantasy even tho they are now some of the worst. Two series who once set standards are many many steps behind.  There was a time WRPGs and JRPGs came out at the same rate and often excellent. I wish we had that again.



#28 Scumbag

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Posted 24 March 2015 - 04:42 AM

The game is getting really good reviews, can't wait for my copy to arrive.

#29 DexterousGecko

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Posted 26 March 2015 - 07:02 PM

This is the hardest introduction to the series I've played so far. DeS, DS, DSII all had a fairly gradual curve up to when you were suppose to die for the first time, this game is literally death 10 steps in. It's brutal. Then there is no hand holding at all. I've only played a couple of hours and just got to the second boss, but wow. The second boss feels harder than the last boss in DeS. Maybe it's because they took the shield away, but it's tough. The moves aren't as predictable and they can add a second or third attack depending on the players proximity.

 

It's awesome though, not sure if it will have the depth of the other souls games, but time will tell. The lack of customization, weapons and armor bother me slightly.






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