71 replies to this topic

[Raiden]

Wait what? Zelda Bigger than X?

if Nintendo's claim is correct yes. They claim the size of Kyoto. So Zelda U is maybe double the size of XCX.

[Marcus]

if Nintendo's claim is correct yes. They claim the size of Kyoto. So Zelda U is maybe double the size of XCX.

 

Can I have a reference to that?

This is news to me too.

[Raiden]

Can I have a reference to that?

This is news to me too.

http://www.gengame.n...to-kyoto-japan/

http://nintendoevery...to-as-his-base/

[Marcus]

http://www.gengame.n...to-kyoto-japan/

http://nintendoevery...to-as-his-base/

 

Hmmmm, I'm not convinced that was necessarily meant literally. He could've just meant that as a way of saying "it's huge."

When you look at the world map on that preview video, it doesn't look that big. Certainly not as big as XCX! Of course, maybe what we saw wasn't the entire world map.

And I can't really imagine them going that large with Zelda. Just doesn't seem to fit the formula.

Edited by MarcusT, 12 February 2015 - 12:01 PM.

[Raiden]

Hmmmm, I'm not convinced that was necessarily meant literally. He could've just meant that as a way of saying "it's huge."

When you look at the world map on that preview video, it doesn't look that big. Certainly not as big as XCX! Of course, maybe what we saw wasn't the entire world map.

And I can't really imagine them going that large with Zelda. Just doesn't seem to fit the formula.

What is so hard to understand where he literally uses Kyoto as his base size for Zelda U? No He says Kyoto is base size. That confirms 300 plus Square miles.

 

It fits the formula exactly.

 

Hell they explained that at the reveal of the world design approach. You play the first game on NES it's exactly Zelda U. Darksiders II took many design ideas from NES Zelda. NES Zelda has just funny enough not been possible for Nintendo to do in 3D until now but as they explained at E3 they been aiming for it all along with 3D Zeldas.

 

The game is blending basically a bunch of maps into one but esp the NES map

http://zeldahq.com/z...rison-part-one/

 

 

I refuse to give ijustine any hits so I won't post it but Shiggy did say the entire world map for TP fits in a small area in this map. This map also fits with the NES Zelda's map just in 3D. Eldin Bridge can be seen as shown by GameXplain in good repair. So we can place things. Not only does it fit the formula Zelda truly is but Wii U is able to return the series what they had in mind in 1986.

 

Been posted in this forum a hundred times how the maps match up. The size matches up.

Edited by Ryudo, 12 February 2015 - 12:37 PM.

[Marcus]

What is so hard to understand where he literally uses Kyoto as his base size for Zelda U?

 

 

Been posted in this forum a hundred times how the maps match up. The size matches up.

 

You have no idea if he meant it literally. It could've just been a bad translation.

Point me at where someone shows that the "size matches up".

[Raiden]

You have no idea if he meant it literally. It could've just been a bad translation.

Point me at where someone shows that the "size matches up".

. Here is a secret. Translators in general are not just Translators. They are developers working on the game themselves. So they know just as much on  the game. This is something most people don't understand..  http://thewiiu.com/t...a-map-analysis/

 Banjo did a good topic on it. Also read the edited post above you. You also seem to assume he was speaking Japanese. If he just meant huge he just would have said biggest we ever made. He was asked a specific question and gave a specific answer. The only one I ever seen not be able to understand that is you.

 

Also read the edited posts. Watch a  GameXplain 1000 analysis articles and videos that match them up. So either stay blind or get it. Either way I don't give a flying keese.

[Marcus]

He didn't give a specific answer though did he? "Use kyoto as my base" is not a specific answer. "It's 100miles^2" would've been a specific answer.
I have no idea what "as my base" means. And also the sizes of cities are defined in quite a few different ways.

 

I didn't see anywhere in the post you linked where they calculated the size.

 

These guys in this thread calculated the size: http://www.ign.com/b...what.454321442/

They got around 16mi^2 for Zelda. 

Whereas XCX is apparently 125mi^2. (about 8 times the size)

 

I'm not saying I necessarily believe that. Skepticism is better than certainty. Certainty just leaves you looking stupid when you're wrong!

[Raiden]

Is this serious? lol Inane Girnlzm Network.

The words are literal. You are making an assumption it was translated in the first place and again you don't understands developers are the ones who translate. You been pointed directly to a video saying how the world is designed. You deny that. So you are just refusing to see what is in front of you.

 

NES Map is the playable game world map. So we can match locations and areas. We know the world design is the same philosophy. However that IGN thing is hilarious. Here comes that word again but the display map is not a literal size map. It's just a representation. Unless you think Zidane is 100 feet tall on the over world in FFIX. It's a point of reference where you are and where to go.

Edited by Ryudo, 12 February 2015 - 01:52 PM.

[Marcus]

I wasn't necessarily assuming it was translated. "Using kyoto as my base" could simply be a way of saying "it's huge." or "so big that I've lost track" or something along those lines. People have lots of different expressions like that around the world. You can't tell enough from a transcript. If he'd said it with a complete straight face, I'd maybe take it as literal. If he'd said it whilst laughing, I'd probably assume he was being hyperbolic.

I have no idea what you're going on about with the NES map. And there's nothing in that video you linked that says anything about specific sizes at all! 

 

And what are you talking about Zidane being 400 feet tall? The world map in Final Fantasy games was purposefully out of scale. There is no world map screen in Zelda. It's all to scale! That's where the measurements for a game world actually come from, comparing it to the character's height. 

Edited by MarcusT, 12 February 2015 - 02:10 PM.

[Raiden]

I wasn't necessarily assuming it was translated. "Using kyoto as my base" could simply be a way of saying "it's huge." or "so big that I've lost track" or something along those lines. People have lots of different expressions like that around the world.

I have no idea what you're going on about with the NES map. And there's nothing in that video you linked that says anything about specific sizes at all! 

 

And what are you talking about Zidane being 400 feet tall? The world map in Final Fantasy games was purposefully out of scale. There is no world map screen in Zelda. It's all to scale!

Thanks for proving my point. You misunderstand everything. Mamood is better than this. It's no use to carry on with you.

You honestly understand nothing that has been said or shown.

[Marcus]

Well only time will tell. You might indeed end up being correct. But I'm very skeptical.

I'm also fairly skeptical that you'll admit you were wrong if that does indeed turn out to be the case. The classic behaviour of people who are too sure of themselves is to just pretend it never happened when they're shown to be wrong. Cognitive Dissonance time!

Edited by MarcusT, 12 February 2015 - 02:16 PM.

[BanjoKazooie]

I do think kyoto is a stretch for the size, but it also does make sense, because the original Zelda was supposed to capture the feeling Myamoto had of exploring the woods and landscape of the region in his childhood, and the full scale of it couldn't be used then because of severe limitations of hardware and knowledge of development at the time.  With all the back to the roots talk of this game it would make sense that this is finally the game that realizes that exploration feel that was intended for the original, but couldn't be realistically done until now.  So I do believe that if it is not the size of Kyoto, it will at least be larger than almost any other game we have seen.

[Son Edo]

if Nintendo's claim is correct yes. They claim the size of Kyoto. So Zelda U is maybe double the size of XCX.

 

There'd be a massive graphics downgrade in order for that to happen.

[Raiden]

There'd be a massive graphics downgrade in order for that to happen.

Not really.

It's easier to cover blemishes up with cel shading and art style.

Edited by Ryudo, 12 February 2015 - 03:05 PM.

[BanjoKazooie]

There'd be a massive graphics downgrade in order for that to happen.

Considering the team making Zelda U is at least twice the size of probably closer to three times the size of the Monolith team, it really isn't a huge stretch.  Also, I guarantee the monolith studio in Kyoto is helping Ninty with development.  So that even adds more to the dev team. Also, it has been in at least some state of development for 4 years, that is a huge amount of time!  Also, judging by the videos of the two games, X's environment does look more polished, but that may be because it is 7 months closer to release, which is also a massive amount of time!

[Socalmuscle]

I still can't believe we are getting both of these games... In one year no less.

I'll literally not have time for anything else.
Never thought I'd say this but... My X1 and PS4 will be gathering dust at that time.

Edited by Socalmuscle, 12 February 2015 - 04:00 PM.

[3Dude]

He didn't give a specific answer though did he? "Use kyoto as my base" is not a specific answer. "It's 100miles^2" would've been a specific answer.
I have no idea what "as my base" means. And also the sizes of cities are defined in quite a few different ways.
 
I didn't see anywhere in the post you linked where they calculated the size.
 
These guys in this thread calculated the size: http://www.ign.com/b...what.454321442/
They got around 16mi^2 for Zelda. [/size]

 
That looks pretty good.

Only thing I would be concerned about would be, whats the field of view being used? Although thats not too huge a concern, So I dont blame him for leaving it out.

Aside from that, there are only a few possibilities for error.

1. If he somehow got the wrong land feature (Not looking likely since its at links arrow.) or got the right lind feature but made a brainfart and used one other than what he wanted for the calculation.

2. If the overview map is not to scale with the in game map (Possibly to fit it on the game pad, whilst still being functionally usable by human eyes at a 480p res?)

Seems a good size to me for a level 4 LvO game as tightly designed as Zelda. So... assuming we got another 8 dungeon Zelda, that would be 1 dungeon hidden somewhere in every 5 square clicks.

[Marcus]

 
That looks pretty good.

Only thing I would be concerned about would be, whats the field of view being used? Although thats not too huge a concern, So I dont blame him for leaving it out.

Aside from that, there are only a few possibilities for error.

1. If he somehow got the wrong land feature (Not looking likely since its at links arrow.) or got the right lind feature but made a brainfart and used one other than what he wanted for the calculation.

2. If the overview map is not to scale with the in game map (Possibly to fit it on the game pad, whilst still being functionally usable by human eyes at a 480p res?)

Seems a good size to me for a level 4 LvO game as tightly designed as Zelda. So... assuming we got another 8 dungeon Zelda, that would be 1 dungeon hidden somewhere in every 5 square clicks.

 

Yeah, I wouldn't take it too seriously as an accurate estimate. But as a rough estimate, it seems quite plausible to me.

I wasn't sure what you were suggesting by field of view though. Which part of his calculation would've been altered by the fov?

 

As for #2, I assume you mean in proportion to the real map? Yeah, there's no way of knowing that for sure. I think generally the safest assumption is that it is in proportion. The reason being that that's the easiest way for developers to handle drawing the player's cursor on the minimap (just read the X-Z coordinates and then scale them down by a constant)

[3Dude]

Yeah, I wouldn't take it too seriously as an accurate estimate. But as a rough estimate, it seems quite plausible to me.
I wasn't sure what you were suggesting by field of view though. Which part of his calculation would've been altered by the fov?
 
As for #2, I assume you mean in proportion to the real map? Yeah, there's no way of knowing that for sure. I think generally the safest assumption is that it is in proportion. The reason being that that's the easiest way for developers to handle drawing the player's cursor on the minimap (just read the X-Z coordinates and then scale them down by a constant)

Oooh, time to take a ton of time explaining minutia that is pretty much pointless! Sweetness.

The field of view (also field of vision, abbreviated FOV) is the extent of the observable world that is seen at any given moment.

The field of view in video games refers to the part you see of a game world, which is dependent on the scaling method used.

Most modern games use a 60 degree field of view,so they can get away wit rendering less on underpowered consoles because they believe their consumers are too stupid to notice the ever shrinking field of view. Most all shooters, actions games, and pretty much every AAAAAAAA graphikz game utilizes a 60 degree fov, so they can render less on screen, and focus more on what they are rendering.

Nintendo games tend to use much wider fov's, particularly post gc when all games became at least animorphic wideswcreen, and third person ones. Nintendo likes wide fov's, and windwaker hd increased its fov even more for its final release than its early showings. WW is a good example of Nintendo prioritizing wide fov, they increased WWHD so much from its gamecube 60 degree field of view, that during cutscenes, characters who were supposed to be off screen, were now photobombing cutscenes with their shenanigans, so Nintendo actually altered npc positioning for wwhd.

Both WWHD and Zelda U look to be using at least a 100 degree fov. You can instantly tell at a glance just by observing the fristim distortion and how much wider the viewfield is when comparing other games.


Darksiders 2 is your typical 3rd party 360/ps3 action game sitting at an unadjustable (even on pc) fov of 60 degrees. DOnt pay attention to the size of the character, but rather, how much world you can see, particularly at the edges of the screen.



There is a LOT more real estate on screen in Zelda u, even when completely ignoring the draw distance and just looking at the part of the screen closest to the edges (Closest to the camera).

Thats because Zelda U uses a much wider fov than the average AAAAAAAAAA publisher standard of 60 degrees.

So now that weve explained and provided some visual examples, what exactly does it mean?

Well, to give a real life example with cameras, the shorter a cameras focal length is, the wider its field of view is. Which results in this:


The bottom picture has the smallest fov, like the 60 degree fov used in most videogames.
The top

In his calculations, he assumed we were using the fov of the bottom image, while we were using the fov of the top image. If you notice by doing something similar to what he did you will notice a startling difference. Perspective distortion!

The height of the red bottle is enough to cover the distance to the light plug in the top picture, but falls just pver halfway sort in the bottom picture.

In this case, one meter tall does not necessarily directly translate into one meter wide, you have to find the point in space where they match up 1:1.

That cliff, according to the map, is more or less a straight rectangle peninsula, with a rounded nose.

It looks like he simply placed the horizontal measurement where it would be the most convenient and easiest for eyeballing, however, thats about a foot high off where links vertical form comes into contact with the horizontal ground, which is where it should be measured from... Unfortunantly it goes off screen, and since I dont know how the image was cropped, may be affected by frustum distortion anyways.

Basically, it should add bit to each 1.7 meters he measures out, which over the course of 7,000 x 6,000 meters, could end up being a few square km more. Which in the big picture is pretty irreleveant. Which is why he probably didnt care and simply used the approximate symbol.




Yeah, I meant the proportion of the game map to the world map.

Everything you said is true and makes perfect sense, yet you would be surprised at some o the things that are done instead. *Looks at crystal bearers map, shakes head*