12 replies to this topic

[Guest]

http://www.amd.com/u...2011june07.aspx

In this press release, AMD mentions the custom Radeon HD GPU made for the WiiU to have "...high-definition graphics support; rich multimedia acceleration and playback; and multiple display support."
The multiple display support hints at Eyefinity, which is a feature of 5XXX or newer Radeon HD cards.

Because the GPU Nintendo uses is a custom one, it may still be that they took a 4XXX Radeon HD card and modified it to use Eyefinity, but that's unlikely as the 5XXX series uses less power at a similar performance. And by the way, Eyefinity supports up to 6 screens AFAIK, so we can still hope for the WiiU to allow more than one/two new controllers at the same time...

[Caius Casshern Sins]

Nice find Guest, hopefully nintendo could do it before the console launch now they just need a way to have a stronger bandwidth.

[Jikayaki]

Bandwidth is far more likely to be the reason behind the current two controller limit regarding the utablets depending on what technology Nintendo is using to stream video and content. It shouldn't be impossible to support four utablets if they upgrade Wii U's Bluetooth or other wireless technology. Eventually these controllers will start to hit the graphical abilities of the console, which may already be an issue past two controllers other than bandwidth simply based on the sort of uses Nintendo plans for these tablet controllers.

[Limelight788]

Bandwidth is far more likely to be the reason behind the current two controller limit regarding the utablets depending on what technology Nintendo is using to stream video and content. It shouldn't be impossible to support four utablets if they upgrade Wii U's Bluetooth or other wireless technology. Eventually these controllers will start to hit the graphical abilities of the console, which may already be an issue past two controllers other than bandwidth simply based on the sort of uses Nintendo plans for these tablet controllers.

Wait, wasn't it confirmed that only one Wii-U controller could be used at a time.

[Caius Casshern Sins]

Wait, wasn't it confirmed that only one Wii-U controller could be used at a time.

Not yet actually, nothing about it has been confirmed. Miyamoto just said the original vision was to have one controller to be used with the system.They said they are looking into the possibility of using 2.

[Limelight788]

Not yet actually, nothing about it has been confirmed. Miyamoto just said the original vision was to have one controller to be used with the system.They said they are looking into the possibility of using 2.

Actually, it has been confirmed.

[Wertville]

Actually, it has been confirmed.

The article you linked to seems to be deleted.


Anyway, nothing has been directly confirmed yet. They have only stated that the current Wii U build (Which is hardly the final one) can use only one controller, and that they don't plan to sell more. They're looking into a friend bringing their controller over; So it is most certainly possible. We just need to show them that we really want it

[Jikayaki]

Actually, it has been confirmed.

It hasn't been confirmed merely that the original concept behind the Wii U is one controller per console, but they are looking into the possibilities of using two. We really don't know if the current Wii U build can play two utablet controllers, but since they are looking into ideas regarding using two controllers its likely it is on paper at least possible.

[Guest]

This thread originally was about that the WiiU is likely to get a Radeon HD 5XXX, but if you guys want to derail this thread that badly, I will join in :DIs there some possibility that Nintendo could use some kind of short range W-LAN to connect additional WiiUMotes? This "U-LAN" would be WiiUMote-only, another W-LAN device wouldn't be accepted by the console. The controller is able to play games without the console, so it should be able to have some kind of config screen where you can see all U-LAN networks nearby and join once you're approved of by the console. The controller that is shipped with the WiiU uses "his" WiiU as a standard connection, so it will join there automatically without having to be approved of.W-LAN is a very fast kind of connection, so there most likely won't be any bandwith issues. Do you think this is possible?

[Feld0]

Get ready for a proper Feldian-length post, everyone.

-snip-

That's sounds unnecessarily complicated. See the little sync buttons on the tablets and the console? Just press both at the same time and you're connected. Easy.

I have my doubts about whether WLAN would actually be fast enough to withstand the connection. Doing some quick calculations, streaming a 1280x720 image to the controller at 60 FPS will require roughly 158 MB of bandwidth per second. Add a fairly standard 16-bit 44100 Hz stream of stereo sound to that, as well as sensor, touchscreen, and button readings, and we're at around 160 MB per second, give or take a megabyte.

So-called gigabit WLAN (the fastest kind we've got) tops out at 125 MB per second. Unless compression is applied, which would degrade video and sound quality (as well as potentially introduce lag, use additional processing power, and make the controller more expensive because they'll have to include decoding hardware in it), WiFi just won't be able to take it.

It's likely that the technology at work is actually WirelessHD, or a derivative thereof (if you're confused, WirelessHD is a wireless standard for the transmission of HD video - basically, it's a wireless version of HDMI). Its bandwidth can be anywhere from 512 MBps to just over 3 GBps, depending on its implementation. If our data stream is 160 MBps, 4 tablets would require 640 MB of bandwidth per second - that's comfortably within the range of WirelessHD. So I doubt that bandwidth is the issue.


More likely, there are probably two reasons Nintendo may not be so hot about multiple tablet controllers. For one, those tablets look pretty darned expensive. I imagine they would go for anywhere from $80 to $120. Buying three more of them in addition to a $300-$400 console would cost a small fortune - and Nintendo has never been a company about charging outrageous prices for hardware (except maybe just a little bit with the 3DS).

Second, I think a lot of people aren't realizing how much sheer power would be necessary to deliver four 720p images in addition to a 1080p one, at 60 FPS, while also calculating everything else in a game like AI and whatnot. The console will have to render just under 6 million pixels per frame - 60 times per second. Point is, you're asking for an awful lot of performance by asking for four tablets. The amount of graphics hardware they'd have to cram into the console for it to be able to handle all that would bring the cost up to what many will probably think is an outrageous level. Worse yet, a huge part of the console's power will remain unused whenever you play single-player games - the cost premium that would be necessary to support four tablets would be an unnecessary expense in the eyes of those who play games mostly for personal enjoyment than for multiplayer (myself included).

[Wertville]

~Feld0

They could just dumb down the game a bit for local multiplayer. Nothing too dumbed down, but perhaps removing some of the less noticeable effects and slightly shrinking the maps and all that. In fact, games like NSMBMii and Smash Bros would have such a simple touchscreen, that wouldn't even be necessary. There does become a problem of not everyone being able to play only via touchscreen, but they could just buy a 3DS for that

Heck, I would be fine with sub-HD controllers if it means having more than one

[Guest]

Doing some quick calculations, streaming a 1280x720 image to the controller at 60 FPS will require roughly 158 MB of bandwidth per second. Add a fairly standard 16-bit 44100 Hz stream of stereo sound to that, as well as sensor, touchscreen, and button readings, and we're at around 160 MB per second, give or take a megabyte.

I'm no expert, but wouldn't streaming a 1280x720 image at 60 FPS and 32-bit color depth require 210.94 MBps?
On the other hand, if we take the rumored 854x480 screen and stream a video signal with 30 FPS and 16-bit color depth, it would need 23.46 MBps for the video. This way you could even use 5 WiiUMotes at the same time.
Wait a second. I'm definitely doing it wrong, because I calculated that you would need 0.46 GBps for Full HD video at 60 FPS and 32 bit color. That would be 1668.55 GB for one hour - this just can't be!

Does someone know how to properly calculate the bandwidth needed to stream a video signal?

EDIT: By the way, a 1920x1080 screen has 2,073,600 pixels, 4 854x480 screens have 409,920*4 = 1,639,680 pixels. The total pixel count would be 3,713,280 pixels. With 60 FPS and 32-bit color depth, 0.83 GB of data every second - if my method of calculating this is right, of course


EDIT2: Wait a second, the rumored screen size of 854x480 hasn't been mentioned here yet, right? Anyways, now it has

Edited by Guest, 12 June 2011 - 05:58 AM.

[Mukkinese]

Lots of local multi-player games could be played simply using the touch-screen as an "auxiliary", with almost static images, or simply as an input device, like a giant Laptop touch-pad. That does constrain some of the more exciting uses of the device though.

I don't know any figures, but Nintendo probably calculate that most, non-party, multi-player gaming is done online from each players own console, so why go to the expense of supplying and processing for more than one per console?