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"Here is an E3 2011 interview where John Carmack talks about WiiU for the first time - good news. If IDTech5 can run why UE4 wouldn't."
Is ID Tech5 that good? I've looked up some screenshots of Rage and while it looks quite amazing for a current gen game (dat clouds! http://media.teamxbo.../1250708202.jpg and some nice rocks/shadows http://www.pcgamesha...90325093927.jpg ) I don't think it could compare with what UE 4 is likely to be. UE 3.5 impressed me more than IDT5.
Those are graphics - we're talking about the engine.
You can be assured since i know everything about Rage there is to know i've been following and carmacks interviews since 2-3 years ago.
I was talking with Id Software community manager a few days ago and he said they're definitely looking on something for WiiU but they aren't sure what yet and it's not off the plate - carmack is probably interested in the tablet to do something there but I sent some good feedback how would they implement the WiiMote for FPS if they want older games carried over - it's pretty easy to port to WiiU since IDTech5 is openGL and nintendo is just a custom OpenGL API so how hard it can be
IDTech5 is actually ... i would be damned ... the only AAA 3D engine in OpenGL in the world to be on that level - i do not belive there is anything better than IDTech5 with OpenGL currently and IDTech5 is beyond other engines too, we're talking about how the engine works, you shouldn't judge an engine by the game's texture resolutions, consumers have a hard time seeing what's under the hood by just looking at the game because obviously it's hidden what the engine actually does.
The graphics were kept at console level. Specifically - it's the texture resolution that's so low - because of insufficient memory on consoles, 512 MB of Ram is not enough these days.
Why the Rage game seems to be low on graphics is because they wanted the performance, which is 60 frames-per-second. Compared to most other games which are 30. The other reason is the technology it self - IDTech5 plays on a different set of trade-offs, the high-speed operation requires a more memory and faster memory speeds, faster transcoding speeds, faster loading ... and that makes the game with little overhead - they have been doing so much to make the game responsive as possible, when you hit the button the gunshot
PC players have praised the gunplay quality of Rage which is far better than other games in this time. Someone should compare to CS.
I played a lot and i can immediately tell the difference with other games - Battlefield 3 (PC) has one of the worst gunplays, Rage totally smashes in that aspect.
The third reason why the game is huge is because all of the ART is not REPEATING pattern - you don't have the same texture repeating in different levels - everything is unique and hand painted with some really good art - this game is actual
innovation and progress compared to the todays industry.
John carmack has a different philosohpy - he doesn't like
bolt-ons - thus IDTech5 engine doesn't have tesselation, because carmack has some reasons eh talks in just in one of these interviews I posted.
Bolt-ons are the stuff that EPIC and Crytek do. Patching DX11, and other GPU features on top of the existing engine that's been made 5 years ago.
UE3 has been bolted on for years. Then the Crysis 2 DX11 patch , and Crysis 11 high-resolution texture pack, all bolt-ons. They weren't designed on the technology from the ground up. That's why it's poorly optimized, takes a lot of power to run so prepare high-end PC with SLI/crossfire.
Here is how badly optimized and inefficient hardware-tesselation was in Crysis 2. (maybe they patched to fix - i don't know - i didn't play that COD clone more than 15min)
http://hothardware.c...ellation-Usage/(actual article is huge 6 pages;
http://techreport.com/articles.x/21404 check out the concrete block used for traffic that one is interesting example)
I have to kind of agree that Rage doesn't look that good on a purely aesthetic level, but I might have to just blame the art resources for that. stewox (and may others on these forums) are most likely admiring the engine on the level of programming and software development, I suppose... and of course the effects made possible using the engine itself are rather astounding.
thanks for sharing the Carmack video, stewox... hadn't seen that, or had forgotten about it. I wonder, though, how may 3rd party developers are really going to bother developing "assembly-level" code specific to the WiiU hardware in order to fully utilize its power (or even write custom shaders to take advantage of the GPU's specific architecture)... it seems like even big studios have tended to balk at the process and give a "the-platform-doesn't-have-those-features" shrug. and i get it... they're running a business and have to think about costs involved. But in all honesty, do you believe that we will see a lot of developers focus on the WiiU in this way?
Yes I am glad that you had understood there. I am not an english guy so I might tend to skip some obvious thoughts that i would explain
It's really hard to explain this stuff just posting quickly on forum - because i forget to say the obvious things that are obvious only to me and to those who know the subject but not for everyone.
Exactly what i mean - The talk about the engines is software technology, efficiency, polish, design, performance(pure CPU wise, do tasks without hickups), codebase quality(how clean the code is), optimizations(assembly), overhead workarounds, response time with I/O, etc etc.
This is not benchmarkign a game, the game is a demo-with all the art and stuff, you can't properly see the engine under it if you don't have experience but for any person it's impossible to know by just looking at the in-game action, you can notice features like "oh theres glow, and there's glass reflections" but that's about it, can't get no specifics on what engine is really doing and what it is capable of - god i wish there would be some barebone engine benchmarking so i could have a clear example - but the people that do know these subjects should definitely know what im talking about. Maybe someone could explain it better like narcidius did.
Even if we talk about any other engine - when comparing engines you never talk about the on top fidelity, art and resolution of textures, because these things are all independent decisions of the engine most of the time since the engines we
If we were talking something about some crappy engine - maybe
Engines are able to do more than you can see - these games are consumer level, they are never maxed out. Developers have multi-GPU multi-threaded super render-farms and they can
John carmack joked about a test computer with 192 Gigabytes of RAM - on quakecon2011, how fast the levels were loading. They need this speed to quickly test the game after a modification, it's a efficiency decision, and so a business one, if every developer would have to wait 30 minutes or more before a small modification compiles and all that stuff to an EXE, they wouldn't be much longer in business because testing would take years - 90% of that time would be wasted in fin air.
They aren't using a household PC for game development.
thanks for clearing that up in detail. You should start a post and detail all the facts,presumptions, and rumors of the Wii U. Break the info down in Tech form and a form that even the youngest forum readers could understand. You don't need neogaf. Folks on this forum will respond to your post. You do get technical but your very detailed.
Yeah - that's how i normally post. I rather explain it in full detail so there's less people asking the same thing later (which happens a lot on neogaf)
I could actually do that on neogaf - which is a much more optimistic idea since there are thousands of gamers which would overlook one post in a massive thread to begin with.
I am actually still waiting to be accepted on neogaf so - or did you knew that seems like you're responding in that way ? not sure - but i said it before here i think yes.
----------------------------------------------To actually answer your questions why is it that you see such stuff
This may be normal twisted way of saying that nintendo is modifying the hardware for whatever the needs developers seek
Because EPIC Games is the one of the top-players, they are pushing and giving a lot of feedback
When this gets out - a lot of nontechnial sources might see it hear it, they twist it, one journalist gets it and totally switches the context and that's why you get rumors mostly which seems so different than what the reality is.
This should be good news - nintendo is definitely listening to developers wishes - i explained this one before - when it was reported about it that "nintedno optimized wiiu for UE4" - it means that nintendo just listened and accepted the proposal by epic games who maybe asked for more RAM, or for some kind of special feature here, or for some buffer increase there, or fixed something in the SDK, etc It might be even a case that they provided an idea for an API feature or whatever and nintendo made sure that's in, but in no way was this meant to be "specially for UE4" any engine can benefit from what nintnedo did,
basically it was a hardware spec buff, a software (SDK) change would not be that significant to be even rumor-worthy, it's good news for all WiiU games(engines) not just UE4!The point is im not actual developer so i can't get more detailed than this - i am SURE that i am not able to tell you the whole picture, - i don't know the smallest of the details, i do however have an idea that there is much more detailed stuff going which a proper developer would be able to much better explain. But you have to be "John Carmack" for that .. to know how the stuff works for the wide range of industry. Most developer employees aren't that experienced with the whole industry as in the knowledge of all things - becasuse these are mostly mainstream gamers who got into college, they applied at a studio and that's it, i don't belive all of them were super-duper hardcore PC geeks OC/tweaking/modding/hacking all their childhood so ....
, their job is a specific thing they focus on at the studio and their work doesn't leave them enough time to just research every other area in all detail, but the directors and technical engineers do that for living - the problem is - they are HIGHLY UNLIKELY to go post their knowledge on any forum just so they can explain it to a couple thousand people. However there are many blogs and many dedicated sites for that - though it's not easy to find it on the web. carmack wrote a blog you can get his link on twitter (search his twitter feed with alternative twitter search engine like snapbird) and there's also what Valve developer written
http://blogs.valveso...hat-im-doing-2/ ... but they aren't discussing WiiU hardware speculation obviously hah.
Edited by Stewox, 19 April 2012 - 10:12 AM.
