77 replies to this topic

[Hank Hill]

Nintendo consoles have a reputation of being casual and void of any decent third party games.

:looks at the NES's fantastic third party games:

:looks at the SNES's amazing third party games:

:looks at the N64's admittedly few third party games, save for Rare:

:looks at the GCN which got more than enough third party games:

:looks at the Wii which got only a few third party games:

:looks at the GameBoy line and its fantastic support:

:looks at the DS line and its more than fantastic support:

It seems to me that you're mainly remembering the Wii, and forgetting the GCN/SNES/NES/DS/GameBoy eras of Nintendo. One era does not equal an entire reputation.

[Ixchel]

But the reputation is created by the most recent generation. The handhelds are also a slightly different issue.
However, I doubt most devs will refuse to make Wii U games based purely on the Wii. Devs are smart enough to release games on whichever systems can support the game, which usually results in the most money. It's mostly the consumers who get the idea that the system will trend the same as before just because of the brand.

Edited by Ixchel, 05 June 2012 - 08:34 PM.

[JaylisJayP]

The problem with delaying it until next year is that you'll likely see one of the other next gen consoles by the end of next year, and the closer those release windows are, the more the graphics deficiencies of the Wii U (IF it's proven they exist in the coming weeks/months, although I realize it'll be comparing graphics of a system that exists with speculation of a system that doesn't "exist" yet) will be scruitinized against the next gen systems.

I stand by my feelings that this isn't the Wii, and as much as fanboys and some gamers in general are excited by the Gamepad and aren't holding their hats on a graphics race, the Wii U would be making a mistake if they at least didn't try to lean more toward the next gen with graphics power than lean back to the PS3 and 360.

Look what happened to the Wii? Sales are much lower now than a few years ago. The casuals already caught on to what the Wii is, a unique system with a diamond in the rough good game hiding in a sea of shovelware and afterthoughts. The Wii is a dumping ground of crap software. How will the Wii U be different? I'd love to believe even 50% of the games will take the time to properly implement an innovative approach to utilizing the Gamepad, but you have to go by track record until you're proven wrong. If you go by the Wii's track record, you're going to get maybe 15-20 great games over the entire lifespan of the Wii U. Not facts, just an educated guess based off the track record of the Wii.

So with an bit of a bad taste from the Wii still in the collective gamers' mouth, and IF you see an underwhelming show of graphics that more or less kinda look like the 360 and PS3, that just becomes more and more apparent and disappointing if the system is released in the same year as a next-gen console from Microsoft or Sony.

What is Nintendo going to stay a generation behind in graphics permanently now? Is that a sound business model in an industry where you're still trying to win back your loyal hardcore gamers with a higher software attach rate, which is what earns the money for the company? Maybe Wii U will still impress, even if it's released next year...but by then tablets themselves will be cheaper, Microsoft's Smart Glass will likely be released, and if the Wii U gets a launch price of the rumored $350 it'll be facing a huge uphill battle, moreso next year than if it's released this November. I think November is the right time for launching this system as it is. If it comes out that they just haven't showcased the true power of the system, maybe it stands a chance coming out in March or April.

[Link707]

Nintendo did a smart business decision with the e3 conference. Even though I didn't enjoy it, it was smart... Sadly to say the largest amount of people who buy consoles are casual gamers... With Nintendo succeeding in setting up a killer casual launch that will drive their install base, which will bring games... Think about this also, when people drop 3-400$ on the wii u they are not going to turn around and drop another 5-700$ the following year... Please explain to me what the selling point of ps4/xbox720, tablets, nice graphics. Nintendo has both, and at a lower price....

Just because it has better hardware it means nothing, vita anyone... People buy the cheapest solution, wii anyone. Also think about the development costs 60$ game vs a 70-80$ game??? Simple decision. It has been seen since the olden days that whichever console comes first is the standard of the generation.

[Lord Pickleton]

Okay, the Release Date is now January 1^st 2013. Problem Solved!

[JaylisJayP]

Nintendo did a smart business decision with the e3 conference. Even though I didn't enjoy it, it was smart... Sadly to say the largest amount of people who buy consoles are casual gamers... With Nintendo succeeding in setting up a killer casual launch that will drive their install base, which will bring games... Think about this also, when people drop 3-400$ on the wii u they are not going to turn around and drop another 5-700$ the following year... Please explain to me what the selling point of ps4/xbox720, tablets, nice graphics. Nintendo has both, and at a lower price....

Just because it has better hardware it means nothing, vita anyone... People buy the cheapest solution, wii anyone. Also think about the development costs 60$ game vs a 70-80$ game??? Simple decision. It has been seen since the olden days that whichever console comes first is the standard of the generation.

I hate to say it because I'm not in that group, but if Microsoft announces the NextBox for holiday 2013, then announces something exclusive for Call of Duty Modern Warfare 4, that thing will outsell everything else by a large margin. Won't matter what Nintendo does, even if they get the game...gamers are too entrenched in XBOX Live to break away from it, and every year the COD games shatter the previous years pre-order and sales records. If some enticing package is announced for the 720, you can bet kids will be clamoring for that and only that next year.

Vita is failing (for the moment) because of the crappy software lineup. Same thing happened to PSP, which took YEARS to overcome the image of having a horrible lineup of games. Vita will stick around and earn it's niche, probably make a few bucks for Sony when all is said and done.

I don't know what to believe about the "casuals." The casuals aren't buying the Wii anymore, and they never had a high attach rate of software if I remember multiple research stories from the last few years...so will that trend continue with the Wii U or will the Wii U reflect what we saw when the Wii itself launched. Will casuals fall over a tablet? The Wii killed it with word of mouth and parties where people could play Wii bowling and Wii tennis. THAT sold millions of Wiis. You think people are going to go over to someone's house, see how you can use a gamepad as a map screen in Arkham City or that you can play Luigi hide and seek with it and go home and beg their parents for one this time around? I can't see it.

Edited by JaylisJayP, 05 June 2012 - 09:04 PM.

[Link707]

I hate to say it because I'm not in that group, but if Microsoft announces the NextBox for holiday 2013, then announces something exclusive for Call of Duty Modern Warfare 4, that thing will outsell everything else by a large margin. Won't matter what Nintendo does, even if they get the game...gamers are too entrenched in XBOX Live to break away from it, and every year the COD games shatter the previous years pre-order and sales records. If some enticing package is announced for the 720, you can bet kids will be clamoring for that and only that next year.

Vita is failing (for the moment) because of the crappy software lineup. Same thing happened to PSP, which took YEARS to overcome the image of having a horrible lineup of games. Vita will stick around and earn it's niche, probably make a few bucks for Sony when all is said and done.

I don't know what to believe about the "casuals." The casuals aren't buying the Wii anymore, and they never had a high attach rate of software if I remember multiple research stories from the last few years...so will that trend continue with the Wii U or will the Wii U reflect what we saw when the Wii itself launched. Will casuals fall over a tablet? The Wii killed it with word of mouth and parties where people could play Wii bowling and Wii tennis. THAT sold millions of Wiis. You think people are going to go over to someone's house, see how you can use a gamepad as a map screen in Arkham City or that you can play Luigi hide and seek with it and go home and beg their parents for one this time around? I can't see it.

You are right on many levels although the price is a major selling point. So Is the amount of people connected. I'm sure that Nintendo hopefully has a huge slate of AAA games and a couple exclusives for next year to combat the other next gen consoles. Also that I believe that was the main point of the e3 conference, convincing people wii u is a party machine. Write more later... Playing final fantasy X

[Repsys7]

Why are people expecting so much at launch for the Wii U, I honestly cant remember, what was 360s and PS3s launch like?

EDIT: http://en.wikipedia....Xbox_360_launch
Cant say I've played many of those games, but were they really that great? Doesnt look like anything special (again havent really played many)

PS3 - http://en.wikipedia....tation_3_launch

Again nothing that special.

So why are people expecting Zelda, SSB, Mario and all those games to be available, doesnt make much sense to be honest.

It takes a while for the best games to come out on a system so shut the Wii up and relax.

Also it is a bad marketing strategy to release a console with lots of good games, who has enough money to buy a $400-500 console and then spend another 400 on games? not many people thats why you ease games onto the console.

[I4got2pullout999]

Why are people expecting so much at launch for the Wii U, I honestly cant remember, what was 360s and PS3s launch like?
EDIT: http://en.wikipedia....Xbox_360_launch
Cant say I've played many of those games, but were they really that great? Doesnt look like anything special (again havent really played many)

PS3 - http://en.wikipedia....tation_3_launch

Again nothing that special.

So why are people expecting Zelda, SSB, Mario and all those games to be available, doesnt make much sense to be honest.

It takes a while for the best games to come out on a system so shut the Wii up and relax.

Also it is a bad marketing strategy to release a console with lots of good games, who has enough money to buy a $400-500 console and then spend another 400 on games? not many people thats why you ease games onto the console.

I agree

[Ixchel]

So why are people expecting Zelda, SSB, Mario and all those games to be available, doesnt make much sense to be honest.

I think most people were expecting more unloved franchises and less Mario. (Or at least a version that hasn't been heavily milked recently)
Or heck, more than 3 games comprised of 2 series.

Edited by Ixchel, 05 June 2012 - 10:09 PM.

[Repsys7]

I think most people were expecting more unloved franchises and less Mario. (Or at least a version that hasn't been heavily milked recently)
Or heck, more than 3 games comprised of 2 series.

But lets be honest that was never going to happen, so why do people get so upset haha. give it a few years then judge it and I think it will be fine.

[Ixchel]

But lets be honest that was never going to happen, so why do people get so upset haha. give it a few years then judge it and I think it will be fine.

Because there have been E3s where they reveal a new system with at least three 1st party franchises coming out. Wii had Wii Sports, Zelda, and WarioWare for example. Literally just having one more game instead of NSMB U would have probably made it a neutral conference and not a negative one.
Edit: Heck, we found out after the conference they're actually releasing a new WarioWare game. They could have mentioned it, showed some concept art or something, stole some minutes from Nintendo Land. They could have mentioned Platinum's game and showed the trailer. I don't see why NintendoLand had to be so long...

Edited by Ixchel, 05 June 2012 - 10:39 PM.

[Repsys7]

Because there have been E3s where they reveal a new system with at least three 1st party franchises coming out. Wii had Wii Sports, Zelda, and WarioWare for example. Literally just having one more game instead of NSMB U would have probably made it a neutral conference and not a negative one.
Edit: Heck, we found out after the conference they're actually releasing a new WarioWare game. They could have mentioned it, showed some concept art or something, stole some minutes from Nintendo Land. They could have mentioned Platinum's game and showed the trailer. I don't see why NintendoLand had to be so long...

Pikmin, Nintendoland, NSMBU

Thats 3 first party games isnt it?

Coupled with lots of third party games, including big names such as AC3, I dont see whats so bad.

Anyone who was expecting a Zelda less than a year after the last one is stupid anyway.

[Ixchel]

Pikmin, Nintendoland, NSMBU

Thats 3 first party games isnt it?

Coupled with lots of third party games, including big names such as AC3, I dont see whats so bad.

Anyone who was expecting a Zelda less than a year after the last one is stupid anyway.

Oi, suppose you're right. Sorta got caught up in how bad it seemed I forgot it was first party. xD There's been releases with even more but meh, no point in pushing it. Just that people really only see one or two games. People like me see Pikmin, hardcore Mario fans see the Mario game only, since Pikmin isn't too popular. I just thought they could have instead of showing off two Marios, put the effort into another franchise, ya know?
I agree about AC3 being good and Zelda being extremely unlikely (maybe concept art at the very most)

[Repsys7]

Oi, suppose you're right. Sorta got caught up in how bad it seemed I forgot it was first party. xD There's been releases with even more but meh, no point in pushing it. Just that people really only see one or two games. People like me see Pikmin, hardcore Mario fans see the Mario game only, since Pikmin isn't too popular. I just thought they could have instead of showing off two Marios, put the effort into another franchise, ya know?
I agree about AC3 being good and Zelda being extremely unlikely (maybe concept art at the very most)

Yeah I get where you're coming from and Pikmin wasnt really the best choice to go with for launching a system because as you said its not so popular (but I love it! ) and I dont really see where they're coming from with the second NSMB instead of a 3D one. But yeah I am just going to give them time and I think everyone else should too, at the start I expected a LOT from E3 but the closer it came the more I realized it wont be as good as we are hoping and that was a shame, but again give it some time and see it all come together!

[Ixchel]

Yeah I get where you're coming from and Pikmin wasnt really the best choice to go with for launching a system because as you said its not so popular (but I love it! ) and I dont really see where they're coming from with the second NSMB instead of a 3D one. But yeah I am just going to give them time and I think everyone else should too, at the start I expected a LOT from E3 but the closer it came the more I realized it wont be as good as we are hoping and that was a shame, but again give it some time and see it all come together!

There's still other conferences so we can still have some hype for some ubersecret games. There was basically no Japanese games, for example. They had to have Japanese third party games being worked on... Hopefully they come over here too.

[Repsys7]

There's still other conferences so we can still have some hype for some ubersecret games. There was basically no Japanese games, for example. They had to have Japanese third party games being worked on... Hopefully they come over here too.

Yeah hopefully! Those 3 "secret games" are looking promising

[Hinkik]

I agree with you. They should delay the Wii U and go back to the drawing table.

Right now it seems like they are focusing more on the causal audience. But at the same time, trying to win over those hardcore gamers. It doesn't work that way. The wider the audience the more dull it becomes, often.

Then we have this massive problem with Wii and Wii U confusion. Haven't you guys met anyone who thought the Wii U was an add on to the Wii? This is such a big problem, remember when the Wii was announced? Everyone was like, did you hear about the new Nintendo console? This is not it right now.

First off, the name. The name is probably the most confusing part. I know about NES and the SNES but that kinda smart cause it was SUPER it sounds next gen. Also NES and SNES looked very different.
While Wii U looks like a simple revision of Wii.

Next thing, the design and controllers. Many of my friends also thought that the Wii U was a portable Wii. Which can't be a too stupid guess right?

Also they always show those trailers with wii remotes. I know it's better for us but having those controllers feels previous gen. It even seems like some games require them. For those who are going to buy a Wii U, then it will feel strange buying a last gen controller, ain't am right? Also we have to stick with those AA batteries and no I won't getting rechargable batteries...

So these causal games. The names of them also bring confusion. For example Wii Fit U, I think they will think it's a Wii game that you need a screen controller for.

So Nintendo what can you do? I think for the first, drop the causal audience, just give up. Those causals already have a Wii and I don't think they will buy another console for a separate screen, since they don't care about graphics.

Second, launch it later as OP said.

Third, change the name and drop these last gen controllers. They need to snap out of this confusion (Pokemon! lol)

Lastly, the games. How many times will you guys play Wii Fit U or Sing? Please. MOAR GAMES FOR NINTENDO FANS.

Extra, try to make a popular fps franchise exclusive for Wii U.

Edited by Hinkik, 06 June 2012 - 01:28 AM.

[Keviin]

To further my point of the crap this console launch is compared to the Wii and why the U should be delayed, I bring you a quote from NeoGaf:

Here's something fun to think about.

The Nintendo Wii launched in November 2006. By this time, the following games had been announced and shown as either in-game footage or a CGI teaser. All of these games were published and/or developed by Nintendo specifically.

- The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess (enhanced GCN port)
- Super Mario Galaxy
- Super Smash Bros. Brawl
- Metroid Prime 3: Corruption
- Excite Truck
- Disaster: Day of Crisis
- Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn
- Battalion Wars 2
- Donkey Kong Barrel Blast (initially for the GCN)
- Mario Strikers Charged
- Mario Party 8
- Super Paper Mario (initially for the GCN)
- WarioWare: Smooth Moves
- Wii Sports
- Wii Play

As it stands, the Wii U is expected to launch around November 2012, operating on a similar schedule to the Wii. The following is a list of Nintendo published and/or developed titles that have been shown or teased with video.

- Pikmin 3
- New Super Mario Bros. Wii U
- Nintendo Land
- Wii Fit U
- SiNG
- LEGO City: Undercover
- Project P-100
- Wii U Panorama View
- Game & Wario
- Ninja Gaiden 3: Razor's Edge (enhanced 360/PS3 port)

A nice comparison of line-ups, don't cha think?

http://www.neogaf.co...&postcount=7784

Man that's shocking..

Nintendo could/should have done so much better indeed... Guess I'll wait another year.

[Deadly Virus]

To further my point of the crap this console launch is compared to the Wii and why the U should be delayed, I bring you a quote from NeoGaf:

Here's something fun to think about.

The Nintendo Wii launched in November 2006. By this time, the following games had been announced and shown as either in-game footage or a CGI teaser. All of these games were published and/or developed by Nintendo specifically.

- The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess (enhanced GCN port)
- Super Mario Galaxy
- Super Smash Bros. Brawl
- Metroid Prime 3: Corruption
- Excite Truck
- Disaster: Day of Crisis
- Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn
- Battalion Wars 2
- Donkey Kong Barrel Blast (initially for the GCN)
- Mario Strikers Charged
- Mario Party 8
- Super Paper Mario (initially for the GCN)
- WarioWare: Smooth Moves
- Wii Sports
- Wii Play

As it stands, the Wii U is expected to launch around November 2012, operating on a similar schedule to the Wii. The following is a list of Nintendo published and/or developed titles that have been shown or teased with video.

- Pikmin 3
- New Super Mario Bros. Wii U
- Nintendo Land
- Wii Fit U
- SiNG
- LEGO City: Undercover
- Project P-100
- Wii U Panorama View
- Game & Wario
- Ninja Gaiden 3: Razor's Edge (enhanced 360/PS3 port)

A nice comparison of line-ups, don't cha think?

http://www.neogaf.co...&postcount=7784

This really explains my dissapointment IMO.