44 replies to this topic

[Play4Fun]

I respect your point, but I really gotta disagree with you on this one... the 1st party content appeals to a certain type of gamer (mostly, the kind that was perfectly happy with the Wii, as well), but not to the audience of gamers currently on other systems, or about ready to go to other systems - both those that have left the Wii because they felt it ignored them, and those that never took Nintendo seriously in the first place.

The real problem is this. With the much lower install base of a newly launched system, and the recent memory of abysmally low sales for 3rd party games on the Wii, developers will, naturally, be hesitant to make anything truly original for the WiiU. 3rd parties need either big sales numbers or big Nintendo support to justify design risks. If all that the WiiU gets from 3rd parties is bland ports of games available on other systems, the WiiU may be looking at a repeat of the Wii situation, where 3rd party support evaporates and Nintendo is left with the only content on the system. Cross-platform games are okay... but they don't help the system itself succeed if there's no wide install base to buy them.

This is what Nintendo needs the 3rd party exclusives for. 3rd party exclusives draw wider ranges of new people to a system - get them in the door - and that allows all cross-platform games to sell well. If you can make a Sony fanboy break down and buy a WiiU for those two or three cool exclusives (like I bought an Xbox for Mass Effect and Gears of War), then you've got them for the cross-platforms, too. If you don't have them, then the cross-platforms don't sell at all.

The people who are all OMG'ing for a new Animal Crossing are NOT the same ones obsessing over the latest COD zombie mode DLC. The difference makes a big difference in a systems financial viability...

This man speaks the truth.

Nintendo needs 3rd party exclusives to get a healthy install base of non-Nintendo gamers on the system.
Then 3rd parties will NOT be able to ignore the console.

[Sphinx]

I respect your point, but I really gotta disagree with you on this one... the 1st party content appeals to a certain type of gamer (mostly, the kind that was perfectly happy with the Wii, as well), but not to the audience of gamers currently on other systems, or about ready to go to other systems - both those that have left the Wii because they felt it ignored them, and those that never took Nintendo seriously in the first place.

The real problem is this.  With the much lower install base of a newly launched system, and the recent memory of abysmally low sales for 3rd party games on the Wii, developers will, naturally, be hesitant to make anything truly original for the WiiU.  3rd parties need either big sales numbers or big Nintendo support to justify design risks.  If all that the WiiU gets from 3rd parties is bland ports of games available on other systems, the WiiU may be looking at a repeat of the Wii situation, where 3rd party support evaporates and Nintendo is left with the only content on the system.  Cross-platform games are okay... but they don't help the system itself succeed if there's no wide install base to buy them.

This is what Nintendo needs the 3rd party exclusives for.  3rd party exclusives draw wider ranges of new people to a system - get them in the door - and that allows all cross-platform games to sell well.  If you can make a Sony fanboy break down and buy a WiiU for those two or three cool exclusives (like I bought an Xbox for Mass Effect and Gears of War), then you've got them for the cross-platforms, too.  If you don't have them, then the cross-platforms don't sell at all.

The people who are all OMG'ing for a new Animal Crossing are NOT the same ones obsessing over the latest COD zombie mode DLC.  The difference makes a big difference in a systems financial viability...

If Nintendo wanted to make those types of games exclusive to the Wii U then they would hire a renowned studio and publish the games themselves. The original Mass Effect was exclusive to the Xbox 360 only because Microsoft was the publisher, and the same goes for the Gears of War trilogy. There's a reason why third party exclusives are practically non existent on the PS3 and Xbox 360. You can't expect third party publishers independently to spend millions upon millions of dollars to create exclusive games for a system and therefore miss out on a TON of potential revenue.

What needs to set the Wii U apart is its control scheme. Third parties should enhance multi-platform games sold for the Wii U by incorporating the uniqueness of the touchscreen, and the potential it holds. That would set the Wii U apart from the PS3 and 360, and would give gamers a reason to purchase a Wii U. The situation with the Wii is much different for 2 primary reasons: 1.) The system is significantly less powerful and therefore unable to handle most third party content. 2.) The motion controls are much more gimmicky then the Wii U's touch screen, and didn't do much to enhance the core experience.

[Tre]

If Nintendo wanted to make those types of games exclusive to the Wii U then they would hire a renowned studio and publish the games themselves. The original Mass Effect was exclusive to the Xbox 360 only because Microsoft was the publisher, and the same goes for the Gears of War trilogy. There's a reason why third party exclusives are practically non existent on the PS3 and Xbox 360. You can't expect third party publishers independently to spend millions upon millions of dollars to create exclusive games for a system and therefore miss out on a TON of potential revenue.

What needs to set the Wii U apart is its control scheme. Third parties should enhance multi-platform games sold for the Wii U by incorporating the uniqueness of the touchscreen, and the potential it holds. That would set the Wii U apart from the PS3 and 360, and would give gamers a reason to purchase a Wii U. The situation with the Wii is much different for 2 primary reasons: 1.) The system is significantly less powerful and therefore unable to handle most third party content. 2.) The motion controls are much more gimmicky then the Wii U's touch screen, and didn't do much to enhance the core experience.

I was with you until you said gimmicky motion controls. Every console, controller, and game is a gimmick. Consoles (great power, beautiful graphics, DVD/Blu-ray, and online capabilities) are a gimmick. Controllers(buttons, pad, sticks, motion, and touchscreen) are a gimmick. Games (FPS, RPG, Platformer, Movie based, storytelling, and action/adventure) are gimmicks. The talk of third party support makes no sense. All consoles have third party support or all games would be by first party and the rare second party companies. It isn't whether Third party support will be on the Wii U but what kind of third party support.

Edited by Tre, 17 June 2011 - 12:41 PM.

[giggity3000]

If Nintendo wanted to make those types of games exclusive to the Wii U then they would hire a renowned studio and publish the games themselves. The original Mass Effect was exclusive to the Xbox 360 only because Microsoft was the publisher, and the same goes for the Gears of War trilogy. There's a reason why third party exclusives are practically non existent on the PS3 and Xbox 360. You can't expect third party publishers independently to spend millions upon millions of dollars to create exclusive games for a system and therefore miss out on a TON of potential revenue.

What needs to set the Wii U apart is its control scheme. Third parties should enhance multi-platform games sold for the Wii U by incorporating the uniqueness of the touchscreen, and the potential it holds. That would set the Wii U apart from the PS3 and 360, and would give gamers a reason to purchase a Wii U. The situation with the Wii is much different for 2 primary reasons: 1.) The system is significantly less powerful and therefore unable to handle most third party content. 2.) The motion controls are much more gimmicky then the Wii U's touch screen, and didn't do much to enhance the core experience.

What about "Killer Freaks from outer space" Ubisoft was willing to put effort into making this an exclusive, but then again it could have been that the other consoles were too limited cause of the lack of screen on their controller. If Nintendo can get more exclusives like that then your gaurenteed to get a chunk of the hardcore market on your side.

[Narcidius]

If Nintendo wanted to make those types of games exclusive to the Wii U then they would hire a renowned studio and publish the games themselves.

I'm pretty much cool with this, too (as you pointed out with my examples) - and honestly kind of assumed that it was what the OP meant by 3rd party exclusives (i.e. games made by 3rd party studios, using those studios' own IPs, which are only available for one system).

I agree that it seems to be a raw deal for the publisher - missing out on millions of dollars of revenue by agreeing to exclusivity on one platform - but Epic Games insists that they couldn't be happier with the arrangement, as does Lionhead (of Fable fame).

I would hope that you would be right about the draw of the new controller in pulling core gamers from other systems (and I like this tack on the issue)... but I have grave concerns about the likelihood that publishers will put such innovative functionality into their WiiU ports unless the install base is ALREADY there and demanding such unique consideration with hands full of ready cash.

As Nintendo doesn't seem really likely to pull in any 3rd party exclusives, however... I am going to hope that you are right in your estimate of the controller's power to draw new people!

[Tre]

If there isn't any exclusives then that is fine with me. As long as the game use the controller correctly. It doesn't take that long to program for a controller. It probably takes the least time to program of the whole game development. Let last gen problems be last gen. Every gen is new and therefore different results. Developers will do what is best for their company not what consumers really want. As the Wii U progress so will the games.

Edited by Tre, 17 June 2011 - 01:23 PM.

[Sphinx]

I was with you until you said gimmicky motion controls. Every console, controller, and game is a gimmick. Consoles (great power, beautiful graphics, DVD/Blu-ray, and online capabilities) are a gimmick. Controllers(buttons, pad, sticks, motion, and touchscreen) are a gimmick. Games (FPS, RPG, Platformer, Movie based, storytelling, and action/adventure) are gimmicks. The talk of third party support makes no sense. All consoles have third party support or all games would be by first party and the rare second party companies. It isn't whether Third party support will be on the Wii U but what kind of third party support.

I'm sorry that you don't like my terminology, but that's really beside the point. What I was getting at is that motion controls  tend to not really enhance the core experience. The WiiU on the other hand the potential to add depth to a variety of genres in ways that we've never seen.

[SonofMrPeanut]

If Nintendo wanted to make those types of games exclusive to the Wii U then they would hire a renowned studio and publish the games themselves.

This makes me think of some reader mail I heard on Radio Free Nintendo. They recommended that Nintendo establish a studio to handle those "mature" titles and the localization of games like Xenoblade and Last Story they normally don't. This studio would be to Nintendo what Touchstone is to Disney (it's still up and running as a label for certain Dreamworks films).

If they had games from this studio, their established world-class franchises and some good 3rd-Party exclusives (at least somewhat regularly), there would be no stopping Nintendo.

Edited by SonofMrPeanut, 17 June 2011 - 04:44 PM.

[Tre]

I'm sorry that you don't like my terminology, but that's really beside the point. What I was getting at is that motion controls tend to not really enhance the core experience. The WiiU on the other hand the potential to add depth to a variety of genres in ways that we've never seen.

I understood what you was saying that why I said I agreed with you up to that point. Third party is not even a worry with me. Developers wanted to make games on the Wii even with the lower power. Graphics didn't stop them it was the power. I've read many developers are saying that they should have jumped on the console. They realized they lost millions by not supporting the system.

[giggity3000]

What's stopping the companies from making some exclusives for Nintendo? Is it time, money, popularity?

[Limelight788]

Finally getting reasonable multi-platform support and once again being treated to a generation of great Nintendo games are good and all but they shouldn't forget that third-party exclusives got them somewhere with the Wii and without it, the console would suck.

So it needs a mix of all three.

[Mukkinese]

I'm sure there will be games that can only be played on the Wii U. The Mii demo's show the concept. Why not an mature version of Mii Hunt, set in a dystopian, SF, nightmare scenario, the "second-screen" player as the alien and the rest as the bug-hunters? I could even see this translating to a kind of deadly 'tag' where you hunt down and take the "second-screen" controller from the player using it, in order to access other game targets.

We have barely scratched the surface of this consoles potential.

Edited by Mukkinese, 18 June 2011 - 07:58 AM.

[Narcidius]

Why not an mature version of Mii Hunt, set in a dystopian, SF, nightmare scenario, the "second-screen" player as the alien and the rest as the bug-hunters? I could even see this translating to a kind of deadly 'tag' where you hunt down and take the "second-screen" controller from the player using it, in order to access other game targets.

Hey, this is pretty much what Ubi demonstrated with a Killer Freaks mode, lol... "great minds think alike, eh"?

The options are definitely there, for sure... the question is, will the system get the games it deserves? I think it can...

[Mukkinese]

Really? I didn't see that. I saw the single-player mode and the alien commander bit, where one player played first-person using a classic controller and the tablet-player played as the alien commander who placed killer-freak units on the map. I didn't see their version of the Mii-hunt though, but I can see how it would work in an Aliens franchise, the tablet-player playing as a colonial marine, able to switch between map - with radar and first person views, for combat, with up to four pursuers, playing first person view on a split-screen, as aliens. Blimey!

Edited by Mukkinese, 18 June 2011 - 09:40 AM.

[Hardcore Brawler]

I buy non Nintendo consoles every gen for certain 3rd parties

I bought a 360 just for Street Figter and Tekken (I did not play any of Gears of War or Halo games)

and I'v found some interesting titles like Alan Wake (1st party I guess) and Bioshock
since the Wiiu will have Tekken and likely to have Street Fighters in the future .. I wont buy anything but Wiiu


Nintendo games + Tekken + Street Fighter + MGS = the perfect console for me (nor interested in today's shooters)


talking about the controller .. remember the multiplayer modes of Bioshok 2 ?
when a player get the Big Daddy suit .. something like that can be applied easily on Wiiu (offline multiplayer)

the Big Daddy plays on the u controller and he have a map


so , if a game likeBioshock was puplished in the three consoles , each has an online gaming modes and offline modes depending on the system.possibilities

in Wiiu , players would have more thing to do offline since one of them will b the u

PDA or mobile phone in open world games
Books in Mytery games
map , piece of paper , scanner , inventory and more things with the u controller

Edited by Hardcore Brawler, 19 June 2011 - 08:59 AM.

[Tre]

The one thing that people aren't noticing is that 3rd Party devs are excited not only to make games for the Wii U but are excited to play the Wii U. They are not just talking about their own games either but games from other developers. People forget that developers are consumers too. Developers' job is too make games but in their spare time they play games and they are excited about the Wii U

[giggity3000]

The one thing that people aren't noticing is that 3rd Party devs are excited not only to make games for the Wii U but are excited to play the Wii U. They are not just talking about their own games either but games from other developers. People forget that developers are consumers too. Developers' job is too make games but in their spare time they play games and they are excited about the Wii U

Cause they know how much more fun it'll be compared to Ps360

[Oni-Link]

One thing to Think about is,Just Nintendo Having There First Party Games With Decent Console Features Would,Probably Solo the Market Sale Wise.With Nintendo's FirstParty Sale Craze + Third Party Support + Exclusive(s)= Domination Even More to the Market.The Only Thing they Have to Make sure they Do right now is Have ThirdParty Games on Par with the Other Gen and Next gens,Or Beyond.and Make sure they Get the Right Third Party Games For every single type of gamer,including Second Party Development if there is any.

[Epic Kirby]

Yep, the Wii U does need third party titles, they don't necessarily need to be exclusive but it helps. Lego City Stories is exclusive to the Wii U. The only other platform it is coming out on is the 3DS. There is also Killer Freaks and that's about it for now.

And yes, the Wii U cannot survive on first party titles alone, even Iwata admits that. Operation Rainfall is an example that people are not content with just playing Kirby and Zelda and Mario and the same Nintendo stuff sometimes they would like to play other developers games using their Nintendo console.

[Auzzie Wingman]

Wii U is already getting Killer Freaks from Outer Space and Ghost Recon Online. Killer Freaks looks like mindless slaughter (it's an alien invasion, RAAAAAAGE!!!!) Ghost Recon looks a like a very very very promising MMOTPS for the Wii U.

Can't think of anything else though *brainfart*