19 replies to this topic

[silverismoney]

NXP’s New 120 MHz ARM Cortex-M3 Microcontrollers Top DSP Benchmarks



http://www.nxp.com/news/press-releases/2010/02/nxp-s-new-120-mhz-arm-cortex-m3-microcontrollers-top-dsp-benchmarks.html


seems theres a class leading DSP that has ARM tech and runs at 120mhz just like vgleak suggests

people at gaff and beyond 3d also seem to think its the wiiu sound engine

[uh20]

neat find, maybe
nintendo tell us something already!!!!

[Alianjaro]

Is it any good? Anyway, as long as its not the NES sound system then I'm alright with it.

[silverismoney]

5.1 digital sound and 2x 3d stereo sound at the same time thats according to the vgleak not the above dsp spec? so we can have 5.1 /7.1 surround as well as sound support to gamepads and wii remotes with out touching the cpu at all this above embedded hardware seems to match what vgleaks were stating a dsp at 120mhz ,we now know such a dsp with high performance actually exists

if vgleaks were correct with this then the cpu must also be correct now lets see if the ARM co cpu specs leak (starlet 2) im guessing a much higher clocked starlet (arm 9) or a ARM 11 replacment what x360 does via a cpu

wiiu will do via a cpu a dsp and a co cpu and still use less power and heat

[Mignaga]

I'm going to assume this is good the way that it has been talked about. If so that is awesome!

[3Dude]

I'm going to assume this is good the way that it has been talked about. If so that is awesome!

Yeah, any dedicated dsp for audio is good.

Though 120 mhz doesnt seem very likely. Not that this isnt the dsp, just that nintendo will alter the clock speed to be a multiple of its cpu, gpu, ram etc clock speeds to boost processor inter-effeiciency through communication gains.

for example the audio dsp in the 3ds is exactly 1/2 the clock speed of its cpu/gpu/ram. The cube and wii dsp's are also multiples of both the cpu gpu and ram.

ANYWAYS an audio dsp is good, because whatever work it does, like taking complete care of the audio department is basically like 'adding' those cycles and instructions onto the cpu when compared to a system that doesnt utilize a dsp.

And sound processing is no joke. It takes a nice chunk of change.

[silverismoney]

the dsp of GC / wii was never clock balanced as it runs seperatly not in multitude to other processors the gc was 3to1 balance originally planned as 2to1

as was wii but the sound processor ran at its own clock with its own bus and access only the access ram of gc and the gddr3 of wii as fast ram simply isnt needed for sound the sound dsp of gc and wii was around 89mhz give or take no digital out...

the wii u has a up to date DSP so 120mhz is very likely true dsps dont need to be clock synced as its not running in tune with other processors its just sound

the bus the gpu and the cpu are likely running in sync if there sticking to this balanced design like gc / wii im still thinking 2to1 and gpu at 800ish cpu at 1.6ghz ish 3to1 cpu is 2.4ghz ish

sound processors dont need to be 800mhz it will run along on its own same again starlet 2 (ARM CO CPU) doesnt need to be synced but a gpu matching co cpu or even cpu speed matching would be great the more power the better

[3Dude]

the dsp of GC / wii was never clock balanced as it runs seperatly not in multitude to other processors the gc was 3to1 balance originally planned as 2to1

as was wii but the sound processor ran at its own clock with its own bus and access only the access ram of gc and the gddr3 of wii as fast ram simply isnt needed for sound the sound dsp of gc and wii was around 89mhz give or take no digital out...

the wii u has a up to date DSP so 120mhz is very likely true dsps dont need to be clock synced as its not running in tune with other processors its just sound

the bus the gpu and the cpu are likely running in sync if there sticking to this balanced design like gc / wii im still thinking 2to1 and gpu at 800ish cpu at 1.6ghz ish 3to1 cpu is 2.4ghz ish

sound processors dont need to be 800mhz it will run along on its own same again starlet 2 (ARM CO CPU) doesnt need to be synced but a gpu matching co cpu or even cpu speed matching would be great the more power the better

Im not talking 800 mhz, im talking along the lines of something like 134 mhz (3ds dsp) to get in phase with the rest of the architecture.

Timing is incredibly important to sound, or really all manner of i/o and since the gamecube all dsp's have been multiples of the other processors frequencies.

Even the 16 MB a mem typically used by the cubes dsp for sound was clocked at 81 mhz, a perfect multiple of the cpu, and even the gpu.

Its not because the gpu needs anything the dsp does, its because the entire architectures power comes from a single point of origin and needs to be divied throughout the system. It also makes for a more stable system.

Just because its in phase doesnt mean its not its own processor with its own bus, it simply means when it comes time to take its share of power or share its finished instructions with another peice of the architecture that needs it, its not going to miss a cycle or cause timing issues because its out of phase.

[Desert Punk]

Isn't it actually related to making use of the same timing crystal, so they only have to fit and power one such crystal but can make use of it at multiple speeds 81, 162, 486mhz by multiplying that crystal speed. So 2 passes of a 81mhz crystal gives you the 162mhz gpu timing signal. Not that I'm saying the crystal operates at 81mhz just an example.

http://en.wikipedia....stal_oscillator

[3Dude]

Isn't it actually related to making use of the same timing crystal, so they only have to fit and power one such crystal but can make use of it at multiple speeds 81, 162, 486mhz by multiplying that crystal speed. So 2 passes of a 81mhz crystal gives you the 162mhz gpu timing signal. Not that I'm saying the crystal operates at 81mhz just an example.

http://en.wikipedia....stal_oscillator

You would be correct, you are talking about the cpu multiplier of the external ocilator frequency. (without which we couldnt get processors past a few hundred MHz)

When you 'overclock' a 'unlocked' processor its this modifier thats changed.

For locked processors you have to go through the front side bus.

Never really a good idea to screw around to much with overclocking unless you know how much to change power draw, or youll find your system to be erratically crashy.

Uh... Off track.

Like making every component run at the same clock speed, this too is not as simple a matter as it sounds.

Namely thanks to the phenomenon of clock drift, evident even in crystal oscillators.

Extremely careful considerations must be taken with things like signal distance from various components, which results in determining the placement of components of an architecture, which runs into all manner problems like thermal considerations....

Which requires the need to rip out the souls of once bright and cheerful, eager young men as you force them to run the grueling gauntlent of processor timing and load testing.

[silverismoney]

actualy the dsp was half the gpu correct but it wasnt in wii only gamecube the multipul wasnt there in wii the sound processor didnt get a exact 50% clock boost according to spec info....starlet clock wasnt revealed ether but im guessing at half or the same as hollywood gpu 243mhz isnt hard for a arm 9 and it isnt hot ether...

a ARM11 at a high clock speed would make a great co cpu in wii U imagine a 800mhz gpu and bus then a 800 mhz co cpu all on chip then a DSP linked to 3 powerpc cores @ 1.6ghz 2to1 or 2.4ghz 3to1

hell for all we know wiiu has a gpu cpu and co cpu all at the same clock 3DS is rumored to do this 1to1 balance for the whole system would be weird

[3Dude]

actualy the dsp was half the gpu correct but it wasnt in wii only gamecube the multipul wasnt there in wii the sound processor didnt get a exact 50% clock boost according to spec info....starlet clock wasnt revealed ether but im guessing at half or the same as hollywood gpu 243mhz isnt hard for a arm 9 and it isnt hot ether...

a ARM11 at a high clock speed would make a great co cpu in wii U imagine a 800mhz gpu and bus then a 800 mhz co cpu all on chip then a DSP linked to 3 powerpc cores @ 1.6ghz 2to1 or 2.4ghz 3to1

hell for all we know wiiu has a gpu cpu and co cpu all at the same clock 3DS is rumored to do this 1to1 balance for the whole system would be weird

The dsp wasnt boosted at all for the wii from the cube.

This is why the same exact dsp emulation for cube emulation on dolphin works for emulating wii games as well.

And its still a multiple of the other processors. A multiple of 3 for the gpu and 9 for the cpu.

[silverismoney]

The dsp wasnt boosted at all for the wii from the cube.

This is why the same exact dsp emulation for cube emulation on dolphin works for emulating wii games as well.

And its still a multiple of the other processors. A multiple of 3 for the gpu and 9 for the cpu.

lol @ 9 yes a multitude HARDLY A BALANCE we are talking multitude AS IN BALANCE 9 x is not balanced 1to1 2to1 3to1 yes but multitudes higher than that COUGH are pointless = clock wasting as in almost every pc console etc ever made bar nintendo

some other systems had balance like dreamcast 100 and 200 2to1

what made me LOL was the total lack of balance in ps3 / 360 500mhz gpu 3.2ghz cpu 700mhz ram thats some goon set up if ever there was one

im still thinking a balance of 2to1 for wiiu (dude lol at 9x )

[3Dude]

lol @ 9 yes a multitude HARDLY A BALANCE we are talking multitude AS IN BALANCE 9 x is not balanced 1to1 2to1 3to1 yes but multitudes higher than that COUGH are pointless = clock wasting as in almost every pc console etc ever made bar nintendo

some other systems had balance like dreamcast 100 and 200 2to1

what made me LOL was the total lack of balance in ps3 / 360 500mhz gpu 3.2ghz cpu 700mhz ram thats some goon set up if ever there was one

im still thinking a balance of 2to1 for wiiu (dude lol at 9x )

So wait, first the dsp got a boost, but it, and I quote 'wasnt actually a 50% boost in clock speed'.

But now, you say it DIDNT get a boost at all, it IS clocked exactly the same, but it doesnt matter, something doesnt matter, because of some arbitrary notion of 'balance' you have taken upon yourself in creating, and stating its only such, in very specific ratios that just happen to be the ratios between the cubes gpu/cpu, and the wiis cpu/gpu.....

You dont actually have any idea what the purpose of making component clocks multiples of the main processor actually is do you?

[silverismoney]

a perfect balance would be 1to1 so lets say wiiu had a 1ghz gpu and a multicore cpu at 1ghz that would be a PERFECT balance console should try to be as tightly balanced as possible

gamecube original clock 404mhz cpu and 202mhz gpu 2to1 but the bus couldnt run at 202mhz so they down clocked gpu to match bus and uped cpu so it became 3to1 STILL A TIGHT BALANCE as everything is in time with the front side bus

rumored 3DS is 1to1 gpu and cpu then 2to1 dsp so thats again a tight set up

pc with 3.5ghz cpu 700mhz ram and 650mhz gpu are so out of wak that the processors are wasting/thrashing clocks = MASSIVE WASTE IN POWER

system on chips with lots of processors could go 1to1 with gpu clock and become very powerful and efficent imagine 16 cpu cores at 2ghz and a gpu at 2ghz all on chip the whole system could be a perfect gpgpu

[3Dude]

a perfect balance would be 1to1 so lets say wiiu had a 1ghz gpu and a multicore cpu at 1ghz that would be a PERFECT balance console should try to be as tightly balanced as possible

gamecube original clock 404mhz cpu and 202mhz gpu 2to1 but the bus couldnt run at 202mhz so they down clocked gpu to match bus and uped cpu so it became 3to1 STILL A TIGHT BALANCE as everything is in time with the front side bus

rumored 3DS is 1to1 gpu and cpu then 2to1 dsp so thats again a tight set up

pc with 3.5ghz cpu 700mhz ram and 650mhz gpu are so out of wak that the processors are wasting/thrashing clocks = MASSIVE WASTE IN POWER

system on chips with lots of processors could go 1to1 with gpu clock and become very powerful and efficent imagine 16 cpu cores at 2ghz and a gpu at 2ghz all on chip the whole system could be a perfect gpgpu

Yes, yes, I got that your concept is that 'balance' is a good thing, and not neing balanced is bad, and thrashes cycles.

Most of what you posted I already brought up earlier. Including the 3ds... Though you dont have to put rumoured, its most certainly confirmed.

My question to you, was WHY does 'balance' result in effeciency gains, and system stability (as long as attempts at anti piracy arent bricking innocent systems....).

What happens when you 'balance' the clocks of components that makes performance increase?

Why are cycles thrashed when you dont have 'balance'.

When you have the answer to that, youll understand why a 9x multiple is still relevant for architecture design.

Edited by 3Dude, 25 July 2012 - 03:31 PM.

[uPadWatcher2]

Any ideas on whether the Wii U games being presented in Dolby Digital or Dolby TruHD?

[3Dude]

Any ideas on whether the Wii U games being presented in Dolby Digital or Dolby TruHD?

Good question. Since the wii u is using a seperate processor dedicated to handling sound, it would be logical to think true hd.

Since its Nintendo, you always have to be ready for something.... Screwy.

[RideZeLitenin]

Dolby TrueHD would be the bee's nees... but something tells me Ninty's gonna do the ole OG Dolby Digital and perhaps some DTS here n' there. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Wii U would be the only console to have the audio processed through a hardware DSP and output it digitally through whatever dolby they choose (please no PLII again ;-P). The PS360 all had the audio processing done in CPU cycles... Who knows about the OG Xbox

[3Dude]

Dolby TrueHD would be the bee's nees... but something tells me Ninty's gonna do the ole OG Dolby Digital and perhaps some DTS here n' there. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Wii U would be the only console to have the audio processed through a hardware DSP and output it digitally through whatever dolby they choose (please no PLII again ;-P). The PS360 all had the audio processing done in CPU cycles... Who knows about the OG Xbox

OG xbox also had to use cpu cycles for its audio, while the cube had an audio dsp.... Yet not one powerful enough to do more than pl2.

Nintendo kept the same dsp in the wii, so again, pl2.

3ds has a more powerful audio dsp, but well, I think nintendo was right in assuming people wouldnt be hooking it up to their sound systems.

Im pretty sure pl2 is so far beyond obsolete that there will be a higher percentage of households that will have a surround system that supports better.... So we should be looking at 5.1 at bare minimum.