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#21 Stormage09

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 05:07 AM

Digital foundry on this iwata ask about the wii u

http://www.eurogamer...-wii-u#comments

-The Wii U motherboard - elegant, spartan, minimalistic - and the MCM module, containing the miniscule CPU and the rather more meaty graphics core. Our impression is of a ruthlessly efficient design, with benefits for both Nintendo and consumers.

-first impressions reinforce the current position that Wii U's design is skewed towards a more feature-rich graphics core with rather more modest CPU power.

-it's worth pointing out that Nintendo appears to have integrated its 32MB of eDRAM into the graphics core itself

-adopting the MCM strategy centralises heat on the mainboard. This makes it easier to dissipate heat with a less expensive cooling assembly, and helps immensely in making the Wii U a significantly smaller unit overall than the PS3 Slim or the Xbox 360S.

-If there's one thing that's rather striking about Nintendo's Wii U teardown it's the minuscule die area occupied by the CPU in relation to the relatively massive GPU from AMD.

Edited by Stormage09, 11 October 2012 - 05:27 AM.

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#22 thehappening

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 05:39 AM

do we have anyone who speaks happening here??? Anyways I got nothing out of this article other than the Wii u would look freaking awesome with a clear shell!!



i speak happening and like i said 2 years ago powerpc 400 broadway cores just look at those suckers lol at power7 being that small nice to see the 32mb edram is actually embedded into the gpu logic not over a stone age bus like x360 gamecube was edram in gpu logic a gen before x360 ms please step away from hardware you have no clue clearly

Digital foundry on this iwata ask about the wii u

http://www.eurogamer...-wii-u#comments

-The Wii U motherboard - elegant, spartan, minimalistic - and the MCM module, containing the miniscule CPU and the rather more meaty graphics core. Our impression is of a ruthlessly efficient design, with benefits for both Nintendo and consumers.

-first impressions reinforce the current position that Wii U's design is skewed towards a more feature-rich graphics core with rather more modest CPU power.

-it's worth pointing out that Nintendo appears to have integrated its 32MB of eDRAM into the graphics core itself

-adopting the MCM strategy centralises heat on the mainboard. This makes it easier to dissipate heat with a less expensive cooling assembly, and helps immensely in making the Wii U a significantly smaller unit overall than the PS3 Slim or the Xbox 360S.

-If there's one thing that's rather striking about Nintendo's Wii U teardown it's the minuscule die area occupied by the CPU in relation to the relatively massive GPU from AMD.



because the tri core cpu is clearly powerpc 400 series witch replaces the old 750 power 7 LOL @ those walking the streetz with clown shoes and red noses screaming power 7 for the love of god

Edited by thehappening, 11 October 2012 - 05:37 AM.


#23 Guest_TRON_*

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 08:24 AM

One thing I found interesting is this...

I hope people will be impressed by the types of software enabled by the CPU.
I like the way you say you love CPUs! (laughs) It turned out to be a CPU without any strange habits—one that runs just the way you expect.

What does this means? Strange habits... Just the way you expect it to? Does this mean it is a great cpu or what? I have no worries of what the GPU will do my worries lies in the CPU?

#24 3Dude

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 08:27 AM

Give it up guy. Its over, do you have any idea what size 476fp cores actually are at 45nm processes?

Theyd be about the size of the armcortex processors on the mcm, not the cpu.

the 476fp is about 4 square mm guy. That footprint is at leat 30 mm square, extrapolating size from the given dimensions of the console.

the 476fp also requires a companion core for its l2 'catch' (seriously kid, start spelling cache correctly) l2 cache. Do you see a memory companion core next to the cpu die? No? its embedded into the cpu die iwata says? then its not the 476 fp bro.

Its over kid. like, really over.

Edited by 3Dude, 11 October 2012 - 08:30 AM.

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#25 Guest_TRON_*

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 08:43 AM

Give it up guy. Its over, do you have any idea what size 476fp cores actually are at 45nm processes?

Theyd be about the size of the armcortex processors on the mcm, not the cpu.

the 476fp is about 4 square mm guy. That footprint is at leat 30 mm square, extrapolating size from the given dimensions of the console.

the 476fp also requires a companion core for its l2 'catch' (seriously kid, start spelling cache correctly) l2 cache. Do you see a memory companion core next to the cpu die? No? its embedded into the cpu die iwata says? then its not the 476 fp bro.

Its over kid. like, really over.


So what is it then? What the hell is the CPU for the wii u? This back and forth is killing me

#26 The Lonely Koopa

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 08:47 AM

One thing I found interesting is this...

I hope people will be impressed by the types of software enabled by the CPU.
I like the way you say you love CPUs! (laughs) It turned out to be a CPU without any strange habits—one that runs just the way you expect.

What does this means? Strange habits... Just the way you expect it to? Does this mean it is a great cpu or what? I have no worries of what the GPU will do my worries lies in the CPU?

Software !? as in stuff other than games or are they talking about the games .... and I really don't know about the rest of that quote ...maybe mistranslation.

Everything in it is just so small as well I mean compare it to the gamecubes Mother Board
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#27 3Dude

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 09:59 AM

So what is it then? What the hell is the CPU for the wii u? This back and forth is killing me


Its going to be tough to identify. But most of the tech talked about in the interview is unique to power 7.

The cpu was designed to be made part of an mcm, and as such a lot of components were put bare in the substrate instead of in a single seperate cpu. This is likely why they said they were able to shrink the cpu footprint by a large margin.

If you look at the p7 8 core package xray, you realize how tiny the cores are in relation to the entire size of the package. the large majority of the processor package is composed of huge dual memory controllers, chip interconnects, and i/o components.

If they took those components out of the cpu footprint and onto bare substrate of the mcm to increase effecincy in communication between components, effectively making it into one huge lsi, its highly likely that footprint can house the processing circuits and p7 specific edram technology,

Its way WAY to big to be a shrunk down 476fp.

Its about just the right size for 3 stripped out p7 derivitives and p7 edram, with a shrunken footprint.

Software !? as in stuff other than games or are they talking about the games .... and I really don't know about the rest of that quote ...maybe mistranslation.

Everything in it is just so small as well I mean compare it to the gamecubes Mother Board
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It isnt all that small, its more tight packed, particularly considering the process its made on, 45nm compared to cubes 180 nm process for flipper. thats actually a gigantic mcm.

Im not sure anything quite like this has ever been done. This aint no soc. Its not a powerhouse, yet its still most impressive. Nintendo, ibm, and amd appear to have hit paydirt on the low power high performance philosophy they started on wii.

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#28 Desert Punk

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 10:57 AM

Its already been confirmed its not power 7

http://www.tomshardw...chip,17884.html

Nintendo have made the effort to impress us about the manufacturing technology behind the wii u which is good but have denied us the actual specification and performance of the console which I'm guessing isn't so flattering.

What it does look like is a console that may have been designed initally for a single combined gpu/cpu but couldn't actually deliver that feature. More than likely a future revision will integrate both together. This is a shame in a way as I guess if they could have integrated at launch bandwidth between cpu and gpu could have been tweaked higher.

I don't know how big the cpu is in real terms because we have only been given an image of the cpu with its ceramic enclosure. I know with surface mounted parts this is much smaller than the older tech but we won't really be able to judge the architecture of the wii u cpu until someone x-rays it and also without knowing its actual mhz speed again we are just guessing. I think its fair to say the information here is the cpu is fairly minimal and a 3 core enhanced broadway chip seems even more likely, not far from being confirmed. If anything the mhz speed now is more of interest. It's highly likely to be a multiple of 729mhz, with the gpu perhaps a multiple of 243mhz. Perhaps 2197mhz for the cpu and 729mhz for the gpu. The reason I suggest that figures is I believe the gpu will incorporate the original wii gpu with 2meg video and 1 meg texture cache and one of the broadway cores will be the wii cpu. Why else would they use broadway cores if it wasn't for one of them to be the wii cpu?

Its looking to be a nice console, while not pushing the envelope in performance the package as a whole is brilliant and looks to be a lot of fun. The concept is very clever and it will be capable of some terrific games. Clearly it will be the most powerful console overall on the market until the next generation of Microsoft and Sony consoles are available.

#29 3Dude

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 11:24 AM

Its already been confirmed its not power 7

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/ibm-nintendo-wii-u-powerpc-chip,17884.html

Nintendo have made the effort to impress us about the manufacturing technology behind the wii u which is good but have denied us the actual specification and performance of the console which I'm guessing isn't so flattering.

What it does look like is a console that may have been designed initally for a single combined gpu/cpu but couldn't actually deliver that feature. More than likely a future revision will integrate both together. This is a shame in a way as I guess if they could have integrated at launch bandwidth between cpu and gpu could have been tweaked higher.

I don't know how big the cpu is in real terms because we have only been given an image of the cpu with its ceramic enclosure. I know with surface mounted parts this is much smaller than the older tech but we won't really be able to judge the architecture of the wii u cpu until someone x-rays it and also without knowing its actual mhz speed again we are just guessing. I think its fair to say the information here is the cpu is fairly minimal and a 3 core enhanced broadway chip seems even more likely, not far from being confirmed. If anything the mhz speed now is more of interest. It's highly likely to be a multiple of 729mhz, with the gpu perhaps a multiple of 243mhz. Perhaps 2197mhz for the cpu and 729mhz for the gpu. The reason I suggest that figures is I believe the gpu will incorporate the original wii gpu with 2meg video and 1 meg texture cache and one of the broadway cores will be the wii cpu. Why else would they use broadway cores if it wasn't for one of them to be the wii cpu?

Its looking to be a nice console, while not pushing the envelope in performance the package as a whole is brilliant and looks to be a lot of fun. The concept is very clever and it will be capable of some terrific games. Clearly it will be the most powerful console overall on the market until the next generation of Microsoft and Sony consoles are available.


Uh, no it has not been confirmed.

Try researching the source material of articles.

Nothing stated in that article is true, the idiot journalist simply listened to internet hearsay instead of researching the actual twitter feed, which is probably why there is NO LINK TO THE SOURCE. ie the tweet.

There was NEVER a proven false tweet of power 7 from ibm.

Ugh, did you even read this crap? This has to be.one of the stupidest articles i have ever seen. Do you just pick anything that supports your view point without checking whether or not.its sound or complete garbage? It only makes your argument look worse when the link you post as proof is.complete and utter garbage.

Unlike your article I HAVE the actual tweet that withdrew the power 7 statement. Research, it pays off. It.was not a statement stating power 7 was not the processor base, it was statement stating they were not.allowed.to.saythat much, they could only say as much as what was provided in the original 6/11 press release, and they apologized for the error in policy.

Emerson Patten @ EmersonPatten23 Sep
@IBMWatson What information are you
allowed to release about the Wii U CPU
specifications? Besides 45nm Power
based architecture.

View details ·
IBM Watson @ IBMWatson 23 Sep
@EmersonPatten @Xbicio All available
public chip details from 6/11 press
release: ibm.co/UhGspo
View conversation ·

Xbicio
@Xbicio
@IBMWatson @EmersonPatten Thanks! but that
information is not clear and non specific

mobile.twitter.com/Xbicio/status/250014316647026688?p=v

And finally, tell your idiot journalist that a power based processor is NOT proof of no power 7 as power 7 IS a freaking power based processor. God i hate proffesional incompetence.

Edited by 3Dude, 11 October 2012 - 11:27 AM.

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#30 Goom

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 11:27 AM

all i have to say is awesome

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#31 Desert Punk

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 02:07 PM

Uh, no it has not been confirmed.

Try researching the source material of articles.

Nothing stated in that article is true, the idiot journalist simply listened to internet hearsay instead of researching the actual twitter feed, which is probably why there is NO LINK TO THE SOURCE. ie the tweet.

There was NEVER a proven false tweet of power 7 from ibm.

Ugh, did you even read this crap? This has to be.one of the stupidest articles i have ever seen. Do you just pick anything that supports your view point without checking whether or not.its sound or complete garbage? It only makes your argument look worse when the link you post as proof is.complete and utter garbage.

Unlike your article I HAVE the actual tweet that withdrew the power 7 statement. Research, it pays off. It.was not a statement stating power 7 was not the processor base, it was statement stating they were not.allowed.to.saythat much, they could only say as much as what was provided in the original 6/11 press release, and they apologized for the error in policy.

Emerson Patten @ EmersonPatten23 Sep
@IBMWatson What information are you
allowed to release about the Wii U CPU
specifications? Besides 45nm Power
based architecture.

View details ·
IBM Watson @ IBMWatson 23 Sep
@EmersonPatten @Xbicio All available
public chip details from 6/11 press
release: ibm.co/UhGspo
View conversation ·

Xbicio
@Xbicio
@IBMWatson @EmersonPatten Thanks! but that
information is not clear and non specific

mobile.twitter.com/Xbicio/status/250014316647026688?p=v

And finally, tell your idiot journalist that a power based processor is NOT proof of no power 7 as power 7 IS a freaking power based processor. God i hate proffesional incompetence.


The sad thing is your rant has no basis in reality and its clear IBM would not have apologised for the earlier statement unless they felt they had misled people. Adding the numerous developer reports of a weak wii u cpu adds a huge amount of weight to this.

The fact is Nintendo are fighting hard for the specification not to be released hence the legal handcuffs on developers but information continues to leak out about the weak cpu performance. I don't want the wii u cpu to be weak but that is what is reported. Your attitude is simply an attitude of denial. I made the point myself on this forum that power 7 is power architecture but thats not the point here.

It may be a few months away yet but the full wii u spec will be leaked and then you will come to realise how disconnected from reality you are. You just seem to be digging a huge hole for yourself.

#32 3Dude

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 03:22 PM

The sad thing is your rant has no basis in reality and its clear IBM would not have apologised for the earlier statement unless they felt they had misled people. Adding the numerous developer reports of a weak wii u cpu adds a huge amount of weight to this.

The fact is Nintendo are fighting hard for the specification not to be released hence the legal handcuffs on developers but information continues to leak out about the weak cpu performance. I don't want the wii u cpu to be weak but that is what is reported. Your attitude is simply an attitude of denial. I made the point myself on this forum that power 7 is power architecture but thats not the point here.

It may be a few months away yet but the full wii u spec will be leaked and then you will come to realise how disconnected from reality you are. You just seem to be digging a huge hole for yourself.




The hilarious thing about this is I quoted the actual twitter feed,and provided a link to the whole ordeal, for everyone to see, how the entire event went down, and you have not provided diddly squat, except a bs pile of crap, that didnt even post the source to its information. Which I did by the way, I posted the twitter feed your article was talking about... And yet you say my argument has no basis in reality, mr cant post any evidence and constantly references 'leaks' with no source, and articles that were taken down because of misrepresentation. Right.

“We have a few Wii U devkits since quite some time. We even almost finished our first Wii U game. The kits exceeded our expectations in every way and we still learn how to get the best performance out of it. A good thing about Wii U is that it’s very easy to develop for. You don’t have so many limitations like on the other current gen platforms. For us the Wii U is the perfect platform with enough horsepower for many years to come. I think we currently only tapped 20% of its potential and our first game already looks and plays brilliant.”

German dev team Shin en. Yeah, thats right, thats a name of something that exists!

Oh, you dont HAVE any names for your 'secret leaks about low power?'

Oh, its a shame eurogamer lied about all the favourite articles you like, and the people with actual NAMES they interviewed demanded they apologized for misinterpretation like the Tekken producer Katsuhiro Harada, who furiously called out gamespot and eurogamer over his twitter, and demanded they amend their articles and apologize, which they did, or the sonic racing team, who demanded the fake quote eurogamer used about wii u power be removed and eurogamer apologize (which they did). But that doesnt stop you does it? Dont let little things like that get in your way.

Like that even remotely has anything to do with p7 being the processor anyways. P7, like every other processor in the world, gets a certain amount of performance per watt. If you lower the power intake enough, even the 'mythical' p7 could be 'weaker' than the ps360 cpu's. Your idiotic arguments about percieved wii u power have nothing whatsoever to do with whether or not the wii u uses a power 7, the only reason I even bother with them is because they are complete crap, its like explaining that the sky is blue because its made of paint. Yeah the skys blue, but that doesnt matter the argument is wrong. I have NEVER said the wii u is super powerful because it uses a power 7, so quit trying to put words in my mouth, as you lack the finesse to properly perform such scams. So just stop.

There are only 2 chips in existance that ibm has that are made on a 45nm process. One is the successor of the chip used in the blue gene sequoia the worlds current fastest super computer, the ppc 476fp.... And the other is the one used in IBM's watson, the power 7 processor core.

THe 476fp core is 3.6 mm square. at Tricore, we are looking at about 11 mm square. Thats less than half the size of the cpu footprint shown in the picture, which you can easily compare to both the dimensions of the console handed out by Nintendo from the mother board shot, and the size of a human thumbnail from the up close shot. Either way you are looking at around 30mm square.

Its too big to be the only other chip ibm has in existance on a 45nm process thats not the p7 processor core. Either that or the wii u has like, an 8core ppc476 processor. I dont think thats very likely. It features, as stated in the interview, IBM's new high density edram technology, the only chip in existance that has this technology, is the p7 processor core.

Go on, look it up, ill wait. No really, actually research something for once, ill wait.

Good, youre done.

It looks like a duck, it walks like a duck, and it quacks.

Heres an idea dude, I have put down tons of hard facts. And all youve done is stomped your feet and repeated no like a five your old, and tried to put fake arguments in my mouth that I have never, EVER actually uttered, in an extremely poor attempt to make it look like you have anything to stand on. How about you put together some logic, and post a reality based argument on why it CANT be power 7, in your eyes.

Edited by 3Dude, 11 October 2012 - 03:29 PM.

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#33 Socalmuscle

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 03:50 PM

i speak happening and like i said 2 years ago powerpc 400 broadway cores just look at those suckers lol at power7 being that small nice to see the 32mb edram is actually embedded into the gpu logic not over a stone age bus like x360 gamecube was edram in gpu logic a gen before x360 ms please step away from hardware you have no clue clearly




because the tri core cpu is clearly powerpc 400 series witch replaces the old 750 power 7 LOL @ those walking the streetz with clown shoes and red noses screaming power 7 for the love of god



This coming from the "it's teh Broadwayz!"
Lol


Its already been confirmed its not power 7

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/ibm-nintendo-wii-u-powerpc-chip,17884.html

Nintendo have made the effort to impress us about the manufacturing technology behind the wii u which is good but have denied us the actual specification and performance of the console which I'm guessing isn't so flattering.

What it does look like is a console that may have been designed initally for a single combined gpu/cpu but couldn't actually deliver that feature. More than likely a future revision will integrate both together. This is a shame in a way as I guess if they could have integrated at launch bandwidth between cpu and gpu could have been tweaked higher.

I don't know how big the cpu is in real terms because we have only been given an image of the cpu with its ceramic enclosure. I know with surface mounted parts this is much smaller than the older tech but we won't really be able to judge the architecture of the wii u cpu until someone x-rays it and also without knowing its actual mhz speed again we are just guessing. I think its fair to say the information here is the cpu is fairly minimal and a 3 core enhanced broadway chip seems even more likely, not far from being confirmed. If anything the mhz speed now is more of interest. It's highly likely to be a multiple of 729mhz, with the gpu perhaps a multiple of 243mhz. Perhaps 2197mhz for the cpu and 729mhz for the gpu. The reason I suggest that figures is I believe the gpu will incorporate the original wii gpu with 2meg video and 1 meg texture cache and one of the broadway cores will be the wii cpu. Why else would they use broadway cores if it wasn't for one of them to be the wii cpu?

Its looking to be a nice console, while not pushing the envelope in performance the package as a whole is brilliant and looks to be a lot of fun. The concept is very clever and it will be capable of some terrific games. Clearly it will be the most powerful console overall on the market until the next generation of Microsoft and Sony consoles are available.


The sad thing is your rant has no basis in reality and its clear IBM would not have apologised for the earlier statement unless they felt they had misled people. Adding the numerous developer reports of a weak wii u cpu adds a huge amount of weight to this.

The fact is Nintendo are fighting hard for the specification not to be released hence the legal handcuffs on developers but information continues to leak out about the weak cpu performance. I don't want the wii u cpu to be weak but that is what is reported. Your attitude is simply an attitude of denial. I made the point myself on this forum that power 7 is power architecture but thats not the point here.

It may be a few months away yet but the full wii u spec will be leaked and then you will come to realise how disconnected from reality you are. You just seem to be digging a huge hole for yourself.



That "article" is just a summary of unfounded rumor, actual blatant lie, and already publicly retracted falsehoods (much of it misinformed and even refuted by developers those "statements" came from). Anyone referencing those items simply has not kept up with the news. Saddened to see a decent site like Tom's hardware be so amateurish there. And the IBM Twitter was saying Power 7 directly for a long time. They never denied it. they just switched to saying "power based" when forum enthusiasts started getting them more hits. More of an accidental info reveal than anything.

Again, IBM never "apologized" for saying Power 7. They never retracted that. they ended up just reverting to Nintendo's verbiage, which, as it turns out, is all they are allowed to reveal.

Those are simply the facts.


Digital foundry on this iwata ask about the wii u

http://www.eurogamer...-wii-u#comments

-The Wii U motherboard - elegant, spartan, minimalistic - and the MCM module, containing the miniscule CPU and the rather more meaty graphics core. Our impression is of a ruthlessly efficient design, with benefits for both Nintendo and consumers.

-first impressions reinforce the current position that Wii U's design is skewed towards a more feature-rich graphics core with rather more modest CPU power.

-it's worth pointing out that Nintendo appears to have integrated its 32MB of eDRAM into the graphics core itself

-adopting the MCM strategy centralises heat on the mainboard. This makes it easier to dissipate heat with a less expensive cooling assembly, and helps immensely in making the Wii U a significantly smaller unit overall than the PS3 Slim or the Xbox 360S.

-If there's one thing that's rather striking about Nintendo's Wii U teardown it's the minuscule die area occupied by the CPU in relation to the relatively massive GPU from AMD.



Eurogamer should never again be quoted in a serious manner. It can now be safely viewed as nothing more than a blog.

From henceforth, it is the example to be used of "how to fail at journalism."

Edited by Socalmuscle, 11 October 2012 - 09:01 PM.


#34 FreakAlchemist

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 07:08 PM

The hilarious thing about this is I quoted the actual twitter feed,and provided a link to the whole ordeal, for everyone to see, how the entire event went down, and you have not provided diddly squat, except a bs pile of crap, that didnt even post the source to its information. Which I did by the way, I posted the twitter feed your article was talking about... And yet you say my argument has no basis in reality, mr cant post any evidence and constantly references 'leaks' with no source, and articles that were taken down because of misrepresentation. Right.

“We have a few Wii U devkits since quite some time. We even almost finished our first Wii U game. The kits exceeded our expectations in every way and we still learn how to get the best performance out of it. A good thing about Wii U is that it’s very easy to develop for. You don’t have so many limitations like on the other current gen platforms. For us the Wii U is the perfect platform with enough horsepower for many years to come. I think we currently only tapped 20% of its potential and our first game already looks and plays brilliant.”

German dev team Shin en. Yeah, thats right, thats a name of something that exists!

Oh, you dont HAVE any names for your 'secret leaks about low power?'

Oh, its a shame eurogamer lied about all the favourite articles you like, and the people with actual NAMES they interviewed demanded they apologized for misinterpretation like the Tekken producer Katsuhiro Harada, who furiously called out gamespot and eurogamer over his twitter, and demanded they amend their articles and apologize, which they did, or the sonic racing team, who demanded the fake quote eurogamer used about wii u power be removed and eurogamer apologize (which they did). But that doesnt stop you does it? Dont let little things like that get in your way.

Like that even remotely has anything to do with p7 being the processor anyways. P7, like every other processor in the world, gets a certain amount of performance per watt. If you lower the power intake enough, even the 'mythical' p7 could be 'weaker' than the ps360 cpu's. Your idiotic arguments about percieved wii u power have nothing whatsoever to do with whether or not the wii u uses a power 7, the only reason I even bother with them is because they are complete crap, its like explaining that the sky is blue because its made of paint. Yeah the skys blue, but that doesnt matter the argument is wrong. I have NEVER said the wii u is super powerful because it uses a power 7, so quit trying to put words in my mouth, as you lack the finesse to properly perform such scams. So just stop.

There are only 2 chips in existance that ibm has that are made on a 45nm process. One is the successor of the chip used in the blue gene sequoia the worlds current fastest super computer, the ppc 476fp.... And the other is the one used in IBM's watson, the power 7 processor core.

THe 476fp core is 3.6 mm square. at Tricore, we are looking at about 11 mm square. Thats less than half the size of the cpu footprint shown in the picture, which you can easily compare to both the dimensions of the console handed out by Nintendo from the mother board shot, and the size of a human thumbnail from the up close shot. Either way you are looking at around 30mm square.

Its too big to be the only other chip ibm has in existance on a 45nm process thats not the p7 processor core. Either that or the wii u has like, an 8core ppc476 processor. I dont think thats very likely. It features, as stated in the interview, IBM's new high density edram technology, the only chip in existance that has this technology, is the p7 processor core.

Go on, look it up, ill wait. No really, actually research something for once, ill wait.

Good, youre done.

It looks like a duck, it walks like a duck, and it quacks.

Heres an idea dude, I have put down tons of hard facts. And all youve done is stomped your feet and repeated no like a five your old, and tried to put fake arguments in my mouth that I have never, EVER actually uttered, in an extremely poor attempt to make it look like you have anything to stand on. How about you put together some logic, and post a reality based argument on why it CANT be power 7, in your eyes.

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#35 Socalmuscle

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 08:46 PM

Agreed.

Edited by Socalmuscle, 11 October 2012 - 08:48 PM.


#36 thehappening

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 10:39 AM

clearly theres 4 ram chips feeding into the mcm from the board so the 2gb ram is 4 x 512mb chips


powerpc 400 series with broaDWAY-FIED CUSTOM CORES AND A CUSTOM EDRAM CATCH THATS CLEARLY PROVEN AS FACT POWEWR 7 IS UNDER 10S FANTASY AGAIN FACT

the whatson referance is clearly the 45nm the silicon on insulator and the EDRAM IBM never ever said it was a power 7 and the stupid so called twitter confermation has already been appolagised for by IBM

so again can the under 10 gamer take a reality pill = powerpc 400 series nintendoized broadway cores and customised catch FACT GX 2 is multi core broadway to a SANE PERSON

powerpc 476fp is 2x the cpu per clock vs ARM A9 the wiiu has custom gamecentric version of this core so a wiiu tri core @ say 1.6ghz will rape the azz of a 4x core ARM A9 @ 2.0ghz

also the inside wiiu pictures PROVES BEYOND ALL DOUBT THAT THERES NO POWER 7 AS THE CPU ISNT THAT SMALL ONLY POWERPC 400 IS

Edited by thehappening, 12 October 2012 - 10:45 AM.


#37 Socalmuscle

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 12:30 PM

clearly theres 4 ram chips feeding into the mcm from the board so the 2gb ram is 4 x 512mb chips


powerpc 400 series with broaDWAY-FIED CUSTOM CORES AND A CUSTOM EDRAM CATCH THATS CLEARLY PROVEN AS FACT POWEWR 7 IS UNDER 10S FANTASY AGAIN FACT

the whatson referance is clearly the 45nm the silicon on insulator and the EDRAM IBM never ever said it was a power 7 and the stupid so called twitter confermation has already been appolagised for by IBM

so again can the under 10 gamer take a reality pill = powerpc 400 series nintendoized broadway cores and customised catch FACT GX 2 is multi core broadway to a SANE PERSON

powerpc 476fp is 2x the cpu per clock vs ARM A9 the wiiu has custom gamecentric version of this core so a wiiu tri core @ say 1.6ghz will rape the azz of a 4x core ARM A9 @ 2.0ghz

also the inside wiiu pictures PROVES BEYOND ALL DOUBT THAT THERES NO POWER 7 AS THE CPU ISNT THAT SMALL ONLY POWERPC 400 IS



IT's "cache," not "catch."

It's not stupid. It's not "so called." It was official confirmation. From IBMs Watson team. Guys who know.

Nothing has been publicly proven as fact other than IBM clearly stating the Wii U uses Power 7 chips from their official twitter public relations feed.

I don't believe IBM operates under the "fantasy" moniker.

As I mentioned earlier (and as anyone with eyes and a computer can see for themselves), IBM NEVER apologized. Because they didn't misrepresent anything. They realized they had been giving more detail than Nintendo wanted and reverted to official Nintendo terminology. A newer Twitter response clarified that all they are allowed to say is the info Nintendo released in June.

In case the memo was missed, the Wii U is no longer targeting a child (the "under 10 gamer") or casual only audience audience. This is a hardcore console for hardcore gamers and has been spec'd accordingly. Oh yeah. it will play kids games too. And Wii games for those who care about that. Those are called plusses, not minuses. Bonuses, not subtractions.

GX2 is an API. it can be used on any GPU capable of handling it. That's like saying the Wii U or the 720, PS4, 360, PS3 etc. are weak for using the Unity engine in any games. The Wii U far more than qualifies to run GX2 in addition to more modern and robust APIs. It's inclusion would definitely represent Wii backwards compatibility. Anything more is simply reading into what is not there.

No one is denying a PPC will work over an ARM chip (as will a custom P7). MS is likely to use ARM because they want to integrate with their vision for the future of Windows on PC, Phone, and Xbox. it makes cross platform much simpler if all you have to do is dial features back on some devices.

The actual processor core, though small and customized as it is, looks about right for a leaned out P7. This is not a Power 7 as we know it. Just as the 360 did not use a G5, but a custom derivative (otherwise the 360 would have been even bigger, with even more vents and gigantic turbines for fans, generating even more noise). Custom, lean, mean, purpose built CPU based on the Power 7 architecture. IBM even went so far as to state "custom Power 7" in one of their reveals. And they'd know the difference between that and "custom PPC 4xx."

#38 Medu

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 04:01 PM

IT's "cache," not "catch."

It's not stupid. It's not "so called." It was official confirmation. From IBMs Watson team. Guys who know.

Nothing has been publicly proven as fact other than IBM clearly stating the Wii U uses Power 7 chips from their official twitter public relations feed.

I don't believe IBM operates under the "fantasy" moniker.

As I mentioned earlier (and as anyone with eyes and a computer can see for themselves), IBM NEVER apologized. Because they didn't misrepresent anything. They realized they had been giving more detail than Nintendo wanted and reverted to official Nintendo terminology. A newer Twitter response clarified that all they are allowed to say is the info Nintendo released in June.

In case the memo was missed, the Wii U is no longer targeting a child (the "under 10 gamer") or casual only audience audience. This is a hardcore console for hardcore gamers and has been spec'd accordingly. Oh yeah. it will play kids games too. And Wii games for those who care about that. Those are called plusses, not minuses. Bonuses, not subtractions.

GX2 is an API. it can be used on any GPU capable of handling it. That's like saying the Wii U or the 720, PS4, 360, PS3 etc. are weak for using the Unity engine in any games. The Wii U far more than qualifies to run GX2 in addition to more modern and robust APIs. It's inclusion would definitely represent Wii backwards compatibility. Anything more is simply reading into what is not there.

No one is denying a PPC will work over an ARM chip (as will a custom P7). MS is likely to use ARM because they want to integrate with their vision for the future of Windows on PC, Phone, and Xbox. it makes cross platform much simpler if all you have to do is dial features back on some devices.

The actual processor core, though small and customized as it is, looks about right for a leaned out P7. This is not a Power 7 as we know it. Just as the 360 did not use a G5, but a custom derivative (otherwise the 360 would have been even bigger, with even more vents and gigantic turbines for fans, generating even more noise). Custom, lean, mean, purpose built CPU based on the Power 7 architecture. IBM even went so far as to state "custom Power 7" in one of their reveals. And they'd know the difference between that and "custom PPC 4xx."


For a multi-core custom Power7 chip to be 30mm2 would require the chip to be completely redesigned, so much so that it won't be anything like an Power7 chip.

THe 476fp core is 3.6 mm square. at Tricore, we are looking at about 11 mm square. Thats less than half the size of the cpu footprint shown in the picture, which you can easily compare to both the dimensions of the console handed out by Nintendo from the mother board shot, and the size of a human thumbnail from the up close shot. Either way you are looking at around 30mm square.


An 8 core power7 is 567mm2, yet each core is only ~30mm2. There is more to a CPU than just the core. Whatever the chip it's certainly going to be far more similar to an 476fp than a Power7, which isn't a bad thing. If you are going to use a low wattage CPU then it's better to use a one designed to be low power than stripping a high powered CPU- just look at Intel. They didn't just strip the Core architecture to make a Smartphone chip, they had to start from the ground up.

What does bug me a bit is why Nintendo were so conservative with the CPU. They could easily of stuck another core or 2 into that chip which would only increase the cost by a fraction but would of made the system much more balanced.

Edited by Medu, 12 October 2012 - 04:02 PM.


#39 Socalmuscle

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 04:22 PM

For a multi-core custom Power7 chip to be 30mm2 would require the chip to be completely redesigned, so much so that it won't be anything like an Power7 chip.



An 8 core power7 is 567mm2, yet each core is only ~30mm2. There is more to a CPU than just the core. Whatever the chip it's certainly going to be far more similar to an 476fp than a Power7, which isn't a bad thing. If you are going to use a low wattage CPU then it's better to use a one designed to be low power than stripping a high powered CPU just look at Intel. They didn't just strip the Core architecture to make a Smartphone chip, they had to start from the ground up.

What does bug me a bit is why Nintendo were so conservative with the CPU. They could easily of stuck another core or 2 into that chip which would only increase the cost by a fraction but would of made the system much more balanced.


The CPU no longer contains features it doesn't need. That results in considerable CPU downsize. And a sweetheart deal for a custom redesign is definitely feasible for a machine that will likey sell anywhere from 60-100 million units or more in its lifetime.

The Wii U CPU is no more a PowerPC 476 than it is a Power7. If it was 476, it would then go through a heavy winnowing process, reducing the CPU to what is necessary and making whatever enhancements Nintendo requested. It's likely, if this were the case, that the CPU would be even smaller. But then the CPU wouldn't be a 476 either. It would be a custom design based on the 476. it isn't. It is a custom design based on the Power 7. Not the Power 7 itself. so you can't go and pull up a picture of Power7 cores and compare. Its a custom design. therefore, as Nintendo says, it is a "Power based multicore processor."

Power7 is the foundation for this efficient custom design.

Edited by Socalmuscle, 12 October 2012 - 10:55 PM.


#40 MorbidGod

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 08:24 AM

I think this is really cool. Seeing Iwata take his baby apart. :) Now ... look guys, if it was simply a broadway chip then Wii U wouldn't be emulating the processor and it would be fully compatible to all Wii games. But clearly thats not the case as pointed out here.

As originally noted by IBM, the Wii U has Power 7 technology behind it at the very least. That should tell you they used that as a bases and went from there.

The Wii U, finally, will be powerful enough to play any multiplatform games out there. It wint be nore powerful then the others, but they dont need to be more powerful to be able to have third party games.

We are looking at the difference between PS3 and 360, not PS3 vs Wii. Which was Nintendo's goal I bet.
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