26 replies to this topic

[3Dude]

why always funboys try to prove you that a donkey can fly, or make some eggs... I believe u.. hahahaha

Yes, Memory heiarchy is the equivilant to flying Donkeys.

I am tired of you, you are an out of control emotional roller coaster, flying to the extremes of whatever current rumour or group think is the most popular without any semblence of logic or critical thinking.

I told you to real your expectations in when you were spouting wii u must have some absolutely not good specs, and then again when you crashed when your impossible specs were proven false, and again when you found out about the gpgpu and went overboard, and here we are again when you cant understand why the lowest tier memory of a memory heiarchy is large capacity and low speed. One of the most basic and orthodox solutions to an effecient system.

Get yourself under control and start reading TECH JOURNALS instead of posts from users on
beyond 3d 90% of whom dont have an education, and you dont have the knowledge base to tell the difference.

Edited by 3Dude, 20 November 2012 - 07:43 AM.

[BrosBeforeGardenTools]

3Dude, Orion's posts are improving and I think you should stand back and listen. You are probably right about some things, but you seem to think you have a higher opinion than everyone else, when you're arguing for the slowness of a system. Beyond3D is full of people who appear to know their stuff but are rarely right.

[Plutonas]

Out of order cpu makes no difference in that way. It can only be a plus and never a negative, you dont have to design code around out of order, like you do in order, as the cpu takes it out of order however the hell it weants to do it to get it done the fastest. You dont have to optimize for OoO. It will run code better than in order all by itself.

Arkham and multiple confirmed neogaf devs began talking about 600% code performance improvements with the devkit v4 release, which broke compatability with previous kits (forcing devs to start over and redo some stuff, or wait for the next version hoping compatability would be restored).

Things changed since the rumored devs... because it was rumors, not actual hardware to test and confirm!.. Those who look the cpu at this date, give different opinions. Its still foggy, but its not good.. I have only faith in the gpu thing, even if they say that its weaker than gtx8800, because it can offer all the new technologies and atmosphere into the game... You cant plasie older than the old generation of consoles parts and say... LOOK IT CAN FLY... differently... thats stupid!

but lets wait and see... I bet in a month or so, we will know what is what… But I repeat, all the tech guys, say that cpu is not that a big deal… maybe because everything they’ve checked till to date, is old and cheap. (as they claim) as for the ram.. is the cheapest solution they could get. I havent checked the reviews about the controller "tear apart" but I read that is cheap also... didnt care about the controller though.. the consoles matters most.

Edited by Orion, 20 November 2012 - 08:25 AM.

[3Dude]

3Dude, Orion's posts are improving and I think you should stand back and listen. You are probably right about some things, but you seem to think you have a higher opinion than everyone else, when you're arguing for the slowness of a system. Beyond3D is full of people who appear to know their stuff but are rarely right.

No, the content of his posts have not been improving, his social skills (in this language) have. Which is cool, I have mad respect for people who can speak multiple languages, but math and logic are what matter here, and they transcend languages.

The ones who are right on beyond 3d, are ALWAYS right, because they actually have an education. If you share that education, even a little, you can instantly seperate the posters on beyond 3d.

I hold opinions based on education and backed by computer science degrees higher than idle opinions and group think.

If these people knew what they were talking about, if orion had ANY clue what was going on, then why hasnt he been talking about the slow ram and memory heiarchy like I have been for the past 4 months since it was revealed in an iwata asks?

Yeah thats right. Nintendo flat out said, and I quote 'low speed high capacity main ram'. Why are they acting surprised? Like this is new information, when it was put out front and center for all to see by Nintendo?

Ill tell you why, because they had no idea what it meant, they are completely clueless about the basic fundamentals of types of system design, memory heiarchy (in fact, despite disagreeing with me, im willing to bet YOU willingly choose to remain ignorant instead of taking the tiniest microcosm of effort to google memory heiarchy. After all, its a lot easier to complain about something or someone than actually doing work to understand what they are talking about. Kids are so lazy these days.)

If orion was capable of anything more than parroting the latest group speak he would have noticed, via his own powers of observation, critical thinking, deduction, and induction, that the ram was low speed, or asked me, during ANY of the topics hes taken part in where i said NO to gddr5 because it would be pointless to have a high speed high capacity ram with the large high performance top tier heiarchy already established, and that thw main memory would be low speed he would have ASKED me how low speed ram could be anything but bad, instead of coveringbhis ears and screaming gddr5 over and over and over again.

And its not just him. Ive seen just near every single person here freaking out over the near half year late 'reveleation' of low speed high capacity main mem COMPLETELY ignoring the very information they are freaking out about now, over the past 4 or so months, instead quoting me and of course, blindly talking about gddr5.

And of course as soon as metroid prime 4 is shown, the 'specs' will shoot back up into the clouds again.

You people do this to yourselves.

[BrosBeforeGardenTools]

I have built computers and researched them. I have known about Beyond3d for a long time. I purchased a GTX 570 overclocked over the GTX 560 Ti based on research. I know what rops are. I know what tmus are. I know about arithmetic logic units. I know about cache, bandwidth and even triangle clocks.

[3Dude]

I have built computers and researched them. I have known about Beyond3d for a long time. I purchased a GTX 570 overclocked over the GTX 560 Ti based on research. I know what rops are. I know what tmus are. I know about arithmetic logic units. I know about cache, bandwidth and even triangle clocks.

And yet you completely missed everything, including basic general ed college material.

Guy, building computers is cool. Most kids interested in computers have been doing it since the 70's, and thier kids in the 80's and 90's and so on, and the numbers been growing exponentially. And yeah, Overclocking is cool.

But you dont go to college to learn to build a rig or overclock a glittered fermi. Knowing about buzzwords, and understanding what they are, how they work, and how to work them are entirely different things. And almost nothing you have talked about scratches the surface of what is going on here, and some of it has nothing to do with the subject at all.

Why are you talking about raster and texture units in a discussion about cpu knowledge? Maybe you are a subject matter expert, and you just arent making it clear.

Okay, know about an alu circuit. Do you know how to make one? Do you understand the philosophy its built on? Can you make logic gates? Identify them?


What is this? How does it work? Why does it work like that?

The logic that the fundamental basis of computers, circuits, how they are built, was laid out half a century before computers even existed. 90% of the information you need to understand even modern computing is done by studying the works of a man who died half a century before computers were invented. Not reading internet message boards and faq's You know about overclocking a GTX 570, but do you know who this man is? Do you have a commanding knowledge of his work? Circuits work off of his logic, memory, including ram, works off of his logic, Binary is his logic.


What is this?

How does it relate to this?


Its not a trick question, and Im not trying to go super advanced, in fact, youve already talked about it.

THe simple fact of the matter is, there is a lot more going on here than idle opinions, and most of the people on beyond 3d, and arstech, and toms hardware are no more knowledgable than people on any other forum, they dont any of this thats for sure. If these people REALLY knew what they were talking about, they would have imploded like this when they read the iwata asks and he straight up said it had Low speed main memory. But they didnt, all they could get out of the interview was the tone, and they mocked iwata for 'pr'ing up the wii u's specs'.



But someone ELSE brings up the main memory is low speed, and the freaking apocolypse is upon us.

[Desert Punk]

Orion seems to move position as new information is provided, i.e. he is adaptable if nothing else. 3Dude has been a source of false information for a long time now and has not changed position. Is it so difficult to see the wii u is both good and bad. The gpu side is stronger than current gen and the cpu side is probably a bit weaker overall in performance. The software supports this as does the information released by developers. Clearly the memory speed is related to what is required by the cpu. The gpu has 32 megabytes of very fast memory to utilise.

Many games do not require strong cpu performance. Some games can get away by not having so much code running on the cpu.

The wii u is going to be a fantastic console worth owning. Nintendo are in the business to make a profit and we can not expect them to massively subsidise a games console. Sony and Microsoft have lost big money on their consoles. R&D costs money so Nintendo can not bring new technology to market without having to include those costs on the price of the console.

Many or dare I say most games will probably look best on wii u. Some games on wii u may have some reduced features which are cpu intensive compared to 360 and PS3.

The wii u should be easy to develop for. Those expecting some huge transformation in wii u performance down the line will be disappointed. However many don't realise I think how few games need huge cpu resources. The type of games Nintendo write well don't need huge cpu resources. Complicated engines with physics engines, AI, lots of characters on screen, weather effects, particle effects and anything else that has to be calculated by the cpu, character movements etc will obviously be a bit weaker on wii u possibly.

Like the 3DS, Nintendo has designed a console where the gpu architecture has been given a higher priority than the cpu and they have chosen low cost components to provide a good spec at a modest manufacturing cost.

I must admit in someways I wished they had abandoned wii compatibility because I feel that has probably limited performance in someways but its still a very desirable product.

The talk that it can't compete with the next xbox and playstation is quite frankly ridiculous. It's clear the manufacturing cost is low for wii u so it will be easy for Nintendo to have a large price advantage over those consoles.

Good times are ahead and I doubt longterm anyone will have any regrets buying a wii u. If you want an early wii u buy now if you want to wait you'll probably have to wait until the launch of the next playstation or xbox before a wii u price cut.

Some people have given others foolish expectations of wii u performance. Anyone with any sense knew those expectations were false just like they were with the original wii console. Hopefully we can have a sense of realism now and just enjoy a great console that is close to current gen performance plus a little bit more.