http://www.swift.ac....iles/vision.pdf heres one paper on it, here is a better one, in which the writer posits that 60Hz is the point at which a flickering light source saturates the human visual system to such an extent as to give the perception of a constant light source.

Since it's been pushed to September like GTA V, my guess is that it's actually being released on PS4 and Xbox720, so the Wii U version probably won't have the best graphics and probably not more features depending on what the new consoles have as far as enhanced controls.

Perhaps, for that we'll have to wait and see.

I'll have to give them a try.  As long as they support CX.

If 60hz was the breaking point then we wouldn't have 120hz monitors for 120fps games.

Yes we would, because manufacturers need to sell you on a feature, and you'll swear up and down that it's better too.  Its amazing what our brains will tell us to justify a purchase, if only to keep dopamine levels up.  60 Hz is the point at which the period in between frames becomes inperceivable.  For a movie, a 120Hz television playing a movie shot at 30fps (NTSC) will refresh the same frame four times.  You can't tell how many times the image is refreshing, and it doesn't create a different viewing experience if it's only refreshing twice.  I don't claim to be an expert, I just referred you to some empirical research that makes the case that 60Hz may be the upper limit of perception of the visual system.

Isn't FPS all contingent on the TV? most people have 60Hz, some have 120hz, few have 240, so is there any point in this?
I'm kinda ignorant on the translation between Screen refresh rate vs Frames per second

It is a little bit, but if you accept that at 60Hz a light source is perceived as constant (rather than flickering, even though it is still flickering technically) then anything beyond that does not change the experience in a conciously perceivable way.  That's where refresh is important.  For a moving image, it would follow the same lines that anything above 60fps on a light source with a refresh rate of 60Hz or better would not be conciously perceivable by the visual system.

well i expect gc/xbox like gen 3 rd parties similar or better along with consul preformance. if ps4 flops as a inefficient steroids engine again then a even better match. think the GPU is ruffly even with RV770 main parts. but can be pushed alot more do to on die ram and custom parts to unload alot of work, hopefully leaving the main parts the basic build and custom on making it look nice. id design wii BC parts cabable of runnning with wiiu and not exclusivly wii. expect most games below par to 720/ps4 but some high end games at their upper limmit

I really think when it comes to actual visuals for games actually built for each of the next gen consoles, we'd be hard pressed to find any sizeable difference between the three.  Sure Orbis and Durango are FLOPS monsters, but I doubt seriously either will be able to reach anywhere near peak, Orbis will have a harder time with it than Durango I think.  I really think that all three systems give devs plenty of room to express themselves artistically, and all will have the ability to display some impressive stuff.  Hell we've already seen some impressive stuff done on Wii U.  Maybe it starts to show it's weaknesses at the end of the gen, but not most of it, and certainly not early on.

Let's be honest, Activision hasn't advertised the availability of their games on Wii U either, and marketing a specific game from a 3rd party publisher shouldn't be Nintendo's responsibility. It's getting tiresome now to see this kind of crap come out simply because publishers find the Wii U to be an easy scapegoat when facing their investors.

I swear every blobs2 commercial I've seen has had xbox and PS3 clips in them (not just the little logos, the actual 2 second promo) not one, from any publisher for that matter, for Wii U.

Honestly I think this amounts more to IGN's and the rest of the video game media's struggle to remain relevant. They don't even try to act like journalists anymore. They are losing their credibility fast.

I saw two or three commercials, one of them was for NSMBU.

Same, I've seen one NSMBU commercial, none other.

That's what really sucks about all this, the developers are being screwed hardcore and for what? To be able to release a game on consoles that are about two seconds from being replaced on the market? Really?

The rumor is that they fired their US and UK marketing agencies, which is why we are getting the very poor ads we have now.

kindv wondered if they wouldv sold better if it wasnt named "wii"u

I have to agree with you. They should have named it NESU or something. Go back to basics with the name, and add Nintendo back onto the console name.

what would be cool and have the option to choose the nes skin for your console

That would have been sweet

Yeah, this is not the first thread you want to see after logging in for the first time in the morning, before I've been properly caffeinated, lol

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Well?

Had to look this up, man I;m starting to feel old, lol.  It seems legit, I might start using this, in IT we find creative ways of rating how attractive a female customer is, usually related to how screwed up her machine is, thereby communicating the urgency with which someone should head over to her desk to fix her "problem"

Didn't take schmoyoho long to get that one out.  Also, Saturn, you're welcome for the new avatar

Ha, yeah, videogame history was one of my early college classes. I literally got tested on this kind of stuff XD.

I want to take this class, I might actually put my GI Bill to good use.

So are we looking at a highly customized e6760 with fixed function after all?

If so that would easily equate 3-6x xenos.

With everything we don't, and everything we do know, I'm leaning toward e6760 based SIMD engines, though 4, not 6 of them.  obviously my opinion on the matter is next to worthless.  I think they may have derived the design from R7XX, but I think given the level of customization and the costs associated they would have gone with a more modern shader engine than R7XX, along with some baked in lighting and tessellation hardware.

If they dont want to become irrelevant...

Heres how it used to work. Developers could make games, but had no way of getting those games to the customer. They had no money, so they couldnt afford the console holder license, they couldnt afford the cost of cartridge manufacture, instruction book printing, boxes, etc...

Publishers were rich dudes who know absolutely nothing about videogames (this part has not changed) but always looking for ways to use their money, to make more money, so they dont have to ever actually work. They pay for the license, they pay for the cartridges, boxes, books, shipping to retailers, and advertising, and in turn take the large majority of profit from each game sold hoping to make more money than they put in.

THIS IS WHY NEARLY EVERY GAME OF THE PAST SEVEN YEARS HAS BEEN EXACTLY THE SAME WITH A SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT COAT OF PAINT.

Publishers dont know or care about videogames beyond what game sold a lot, and thus tell developers to take whatever game they were working on and 'make it more like that 'gta, or cod' that sell so much.

However, publishers are now losing relevancy, distribution has been seperated from publishers, first with eshops, and now things like kickstarter, a dev can get fully funded to bring physical releases to a console, without submitting to the oppression of an incumbent publishing house.

The wind of change blows.

Oh how I would love to see EA and/or Activision shutter for lack of relevance. Nintendo should work very closely with Indie developers to make sure they have everything they need to make smash hit games on their consoles.

The amount of heat they are getting, keeping in mind it's only the most vocal 1%, should tell them that they would sell very well if they released it now.  Once they start seeing preorders disappear into thin air...

Releasing a demo of a finished title that you are holding back for 6+ months is about the worst business decision they could have made, considering they aren't going to sell enough on the other two consoles to make a huge difference, they just lost confidence from many a Wii U owner, and they are adding extra costs they won't likely recoup to the dev cycle.

The MS rule doesn't apply for exclusive titles, unless it was Ubi's plan all along to take it multiplat, which you think they would have just told everyone.

It would have had to be either Ubi reaching out to MS and Sony to take it multiplat, or MS and Sony coming to Ubi to bring it to their consoles.  I'm inclined to believe its the former, and it's completely Ubi's fault for the delay and the loss of exclusivity.

R7XX would make sence as a starting bases only. but how do the basic fuctions (ignooring all custom) compare to R7XX. devs seemed to only have access to basics till last devkit which likly didnt feature all custom features as they were likly still being fintuned in development =/. i know ME3 didnt take advantige of the GPU. didnt use much of the ERAM, so reloads parts through the main bandwidth, when the EDRAM is likly enough to keep grahics almost completly loaded+ the extra (Sram was it?) RAM on die aswell.

no CPU die shots yet?

We've already seen it do things that don't make sense for a straight up R7XX, except maybe the 4900 series.  Given that I believe they have to be using more modern unified shaders than that line, though it may have been their original starting point for the type of performance they wanted devs to expect (I would assume they were playing it safe, better to have a launch title not utilize all the hardware potential rather than not run properly) to get from the system, at least early on.  As far as ME3 it was a very CPU intensive game on both x360 and PS3 and they had very little time with the final hardware and SDK to optimize for the hardware.  The fact that late gen ports run as well as they do with little to no optimization or even switch from CPU to GPU reliance really says something about what this little puppy can do.

NaBro, don't leave.

99% of ps360 games are cpu intensive... also wii U can boost its performance on cpu, with a bit different coding, but all games are ports... so wii U struggles with the 360 codding.. thats all.

If u add wii U codding on 360, 360 will not be able to perform also.

Exactly, thanks for the clarification, sometimes I ramble, lol

and no, no die shots yet.  Four Storm doesn't want to be a pest with ChipWorks considering what they've given the community so far.

so if new publisher comes along and says 'make what you want, we will publish it' they will probly make money, except maiby with approvel(not some PC generic(browser) game). they would have very easy access to many developers =/ except those owned by publishers. almost everyone including EA's developers ended wanting them to burn.

It isn't even so much a new publisher coming along at this point. Independent developers can get funding through a number of sources that don't have to be a conglomerate. Not only that, but all of the console makers and Steam are making it easier and easier to get games to market, even without the need to develop physical media. Microsoft was the first to do this, and literally gave away all of their SDK's to the public and in some cases paid indie devs a stipend to develop their ideas.

With Nintendo's eShop they have already started making it easier for indie games to make it to market. They need to do even more, though it may take another generation before they are comfortable with that idea.