....
......

I seriously hope this is jist another case of edges incompetence.

Agreed, I was really looking forward to getting the next xbox, but this would dissuade me just on principle.

So much hate on Microsoft.... You people disgust me.... "Im a gamer I love Video games" "Video games are my life" "Gamer for life", very next thing out of your mouths "I hope Microsoft dies and rots in hell" or "Hahah Vita will die and Sony will go out of business Yay!"...

You dont want Microsoft or Sony to "pay for there actions" They have the right to make as much profit as they see fit... they are a business, thats what the entire goal of a business is... God forbid they try and make money... New flash: If you dont like what they are doing YOU DONT HAVE TO BUY THEIR STUFF...



All we really want is for Sony to do really really good because that means the video game industry is doing good and we want Microsoft to do really really good because that means guess what?? Yup the video game industry is doing good... And of course we all want Nintendo to do good as well




And the only enemy here is Apple...they are the ones we want to choke and die..

Umm, I don't remember reading anywhere that someone wants Microsoft to leave the industry. We should all want all three companies to do well, but when they deliver a product that can hurt or even destroy a subordinate industry (used game sales, physical game sales), prevent consumers from returning unsatisfactory products, and potentially forcing some users to incur additional cost for bandwidth to constantly access their network, none of that is good for the consumer. All of that equates to are anti consumer practices. Sure they have every right to develop package and sell their product however they want, but I have the right to not buy their product if I don't see the value in it, or if they lose me as a customer based on my personal principles.

Oh dear. Have you not heard of the GIMMICK called Kinect? Or how Xbox Live AKA subscription based internet for children has nothing but little kiddies online screaming down the mic? Dumb clown.

Another butthurt 360 owner trolling Wii U forums LMAO are you that insecure?

He's also forgetting that Wii's gimmick is what scared the pants off of both Sony and Microsoft and had them scrambling, buying up motion tech companies to implement their own gimmicks.  It sells.

The comments of Mitch are not confined to the walls of this thread People wish for the death and demise of them all the time on here :/





Look at the positive effects of these actions... Going green :3 and forcing America to upgrade is sub-par internet speeds

If you really look at what they are doing then you can see how just and noble their acts truly are lol

Thats a different perspective, thanks! I understand what they want to do, but they aren't doing consumers any favors in the short term. The only thing that really sucks to me is going with digital distro and game codes ONLY. Meaning there will be no way to return games that do not provide the entertainment that they should have. If they lower the cost per game down to steam levels I would probably be on board. That would make Valve's hatred for Microsoft recently make much more sense as well.

Honestly, as a PC Gamer, the no used game deal doesn't bother me in the slightest. And if Sony does the same thing with their PS4 then it all but spells out the doom for used games. There's also the fact that Gamestop is closing 200 stores this year due to declining sales, used games are their primary profit driver so it's safe to assume that used game sales for them are down.

So I honestly don't think it's a big deal at all.

That makes sense as well. I'm not necessarily tied to physical game copies, I love digtial distribution and on PC steam and origin work great, I haven't felt the need to return any of the games I've purchased on PC yet, though it would be nice to be able to sell back the license through steam if only to clear the game off my games list, it gets long, and to get a few dollars back to put toward another game.

Console games cost more and some provide less than expected experiences. That is what I'm worried about. We'll see how that goes, though. Gamestop is closing stores because they are turning people off to used games by making the tradein rates ridiculously low while charging close to retail for that same game used. Its their own fault they are in the predicament they are in. Also, people can find better prices for used games on ebay, amazon, craigslist, etc which makes going to Gamestop more about the brick and mortar experience than anything else.

People buy used games all the time, moreso than ever I would imagine, but people are able to shop around more now rather than having only one place to go for used games. This would also kill services like gamefly, btw.

Microsoft isn't doing it to futher some benevolent cause for the sake of the consumer, they are doing it to strengthen revenue streams, which I have no problem with, by all means whatever makes you money, but I'll have to take everything into account when it comes time to make a purchase decision. I like voting with my wallet wherever I can, while I still can.

They are trying anything to try and trash the part. Sad, because talking about it's power potential is much more exciting.

So BGAssassin still thinks we're looking at around 1TF or more taking "dedicated solicon" into account. He wouldn't label it fixed function, though that's what I would suppose that amounts to. Very interesting post.

Did you get a display model or something? factory reset and start over. Otherwise, go to mii maker and make sure the display photo is set to what you want it to be.

http://venturebeat.c...op-holiday-dow/

"Even worse, at least for GameStop, used-game sales were down a surprising 15.6 percent.
Read more at http://venturebeat.c...4XE0VgZVjQ9K.99"

Just to further back up my idea that gamestop is folding because of used game sales and such.

Oh definitely, that's been the case for a while now I think. I know for my part, though, I'll check several places to find a used game and pick it up where I can find the best value, whether that's lowest price or peace of mind depends on the game. Mostly, though, I stick to gamestop for used games if I can find them at a decent price.

http://www.neogaf.co...&postcount=1663

*Comes out of his hole (again)*

I tend to forget some people take this stuff a lot more serious than I do.

First a thanks to Chipworks for going above and beyond for the picture and to blu, Durante, Fourth Storm, Thraktor, and wsippel for the work they did. Shinjohn let me know that the picture had been obtained and sent me a link, but I also checked out the thread. I wanted to come back and help with the confusion and what not.

As some of you know getting info about the hardware was a pain because what Nintendo released essentially boiled down to a features list. And by that I mean general features of a modern GPU that could easily be looked up. Info that dealt with performance apparently was not given out leaving devs to figure have to figure it out on their own. I had two working ideas of the GPU based on a more traditional design (which I was hoping for) and a non-traditional design. I see that some of you actually remembered the non-traditional idea. Wsippel and I would compare notes on whatever info we could come up with. Some of those notes led us to come up with how it may look if Nintendo took the non-traditional route.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost...ostcount=12053

In this post you’ll see both wsippel’s take and my take. I’m going to address some things in that post because I know some of you will try to take them out of context. First you’ll see wsippel’s baseline ended up being more accurate than mine. When I talked about the potential performance of 1TF or more that was in comparison to the R700 series because new GPUs are more efficient than that line, a higher baseline, and my idea focused on the dedicated silicon handling other performance tasks.

So what was the basis for the non-traditional view? I shared two of those bits of info before.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost...postcount=6136



Quote:
Well, I can't reveal too much. The performance target is still more or less the same as the last review from around E3. Now it's more balanced and "2012" now that it's nearer to complete and now AMD is providing proper stuff. As far as specs, I don't see any big change for better or worse, other than said cost/performance balance tweaks... It won't make a significant difference to the end user. As far as the kit goes, it's almost like what MS went through. Except more Japanese-ish... If you know what I mean. http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost...postcount=6305



Quote:
Anyway, things are shaping up now with the new year. There was some anxiety with some less close third parties about what they were doing with GPU side, whether things were going to be left in the past... but it looks more modern now. You know, there simply wasn't actual U GPU data in third party hands this time last year, just the target range and R700 reference GPU for porting 360 titles to the new cafe control. Maybe now they finally can get to start debugging of the specifics and start showing a difference... Here is one more specific piece that I didn’t fully share.



Quote:
I can't confirm or deny, sorry. The cat is very confidential and I repeat non-final. The target, last checked, is triple core with XX eDram and exclusive Nintendo instructions. 1080/30 capable Radeon HD w/tess. and exclusive Nintendo patented features. On a nice, tight bus that MS wishes they had on 360.
I appreciate the individual for sharing as much as he did. He was a little paranoid though (I can understand) and at one point thought I was leaking info on a messageboard under a different name, but wouldn’t tell me the board or the username, lol.

I’m sure some of you remember me talking about games being 720p. It’s because with this I knew devs would use those resources for 720p development. I’m sure some of you also remember me mentioning the bus. The key thing in this is the “Nintendo patented features”. In the context of things we talked about, it seemed to me these were going to be hardwired features. What is certain for now is that the die shot shows a design that is not traditional, fewer ALUs (in number) from where things supposedly started with the first kit, and GPU logic that is unaccounted for. I’ve seen some saying fixed functions, but that’s too specific to be accurate right now. Dedicated silicon would be a better alternative to use, though I say that as a suggestion. In my opinion I think lighting is a part of this. The Zelda and Bird demos emphasized this. Also in the past it was discussed how Nintendo likes predictability of performance. It would also suggest Nintendo wasn’t ready to embrace a “fully” programmable GPU and kept on the water wings when jumping in the pool.

I did what I could to get as much info on the hardware as possible since Nintendo was giving out so little. From there I gave the best speculation I could based on that info. As of today, I still stand by the evaluations I made about Wii U’s potential performance from all the info I could gather. And until Nintendo’s games show otherwise I’ll continue to stand by them because in the end it’s on Nintendo show what Wii U is capable of.

And if you think I deserve flak for what I’ve said in the past then I’m here, but you’re wasting your time trying because my view hasn’t changed yet.

I made the farewell post to hold myself accountable to avoid posting, but I haven’t done well sticking to that, haha. I wasn’t going to make this post, but since I was one of the primary ones gathering info it’s unfair to you guys to leave things as they were.

@routerbad: Thanks!

This guy was right about everything before, I think he is right now.

Its kind of disappointing to see that Nintendo did reduce the amount of programmable shaders from 400-500 to 350 (1-2 SIMD cores), but they maybe put something more powerful instead of those cores!

Like he said, Nintendo has always been about predictable quality, so certain things they wanted taken advantage of probably have dedicated logic to pull those functions off the shaders themselves.

I just want to know if I made the right gamble getting one of these. Can developers potentially port Next gen games with only a few minor things such as resolution and frame rate (I don't care much for 1080p or frame rate)?

If the answer is "yes, so long as publishers and developers don't get all pissey about doing that" then I'm fine I just don't want it to be another Wii situation where publishers can't be bothered because it means them paying another developer to use a separate engine to make another version of the game for Nintendo....

We don't know yet whether it will support UE4 though I suspect it will. I believe Frostbite2 and CryEngine3 are already said to be supported on Wii U. Buying a console isn't a gamble, it's an investment. Spending $350 some odd dollars is putting faith in Nintendo to deliver a worthwhile entertainment experience. And it's not like you can't own multiple consoles. It should handle "next gen" ports just fine, but I'd rather see multiplats that are built and optimized for Wii U.

dsp also right next to the high speed i/o's and starbuck. Freaking eurogamer silly pony 'tech analyst'.

What was his name again? jeff butter? whatever his name is, he sure made a fool of himself.

Agreed.

Why would we want the console wars to end? Competition breeds innovation. Also, fanboys will be fanboys, whether they have a game console to replace their lack of healthy attachments growing up or something else, doesn't really matter. They'd move into some other facet of our lives to make sure we know why the thing they like is the only thing worth thinking about.

Are you kidding me Ubisoft. Wii U just got one less exclusive. Even if it is coming to Xbox And PS3 it'll look like crap compared to the Wii U. Seriously, at least give it to Wii U owners early.

I'm starting to think this may be a good thing for Wii U. The game will come out on three consoles, and the Wii U experience will be the flagship. More features, better graphics, etc. It may help end the conversation about whether Wii U is next gen. They are, after all, building a Wii U game from the ground up, and gimping it hard on the other consoles.

I think they may have been a little peeved when Ninty decided to leave out a lot of information with the Dev Kit documentation. Either way Legends on the Wii U will be the premier experience, rather than the gimped port for a change.

epic came out and said wiiU can run unreal4, but not to the max they wanted it, without optimization atleast. but then again 720/PS4 have confirmed themselfs to run gimped versions of UE4 too.

Awesome, thanks!  I hadn't heard that yet.  UE4 won't see full implementation on any console I'm sure.  It's a PC first engine, and I'm glad they built it that way.

I'm honestly going to wait for the PC version, it'll be the superior version just like with Origins.

To each his own, PC version will get the visuals but not the novelty.

My username comes from a something I was called early on in my Marine Corps career. I was performing an op-check (checking all of the components for functionality, running test configs on routers and servers to make sure all of the components worked correctly) on one of our DDS (Data Distribution System - basically a military network in a box) suites. Everything checked out in my DDS suite but the router (a Cisco 4000 series, if memory serves) would not boot. The NVMEM component was toast. On my op-check folder I marked in comments "router bad" and turned the book into our inventory NCO.

The next day when the Corporal came in and started checking the op-check logs he paused for a moment and barked at me to come over. When I got there he asked if my signature on the form was in fact mine. It was. He then, making sure everyone could overhear in the shop, said "routerbad?! Thats some **** a third grader would say f***nu*s! Are you a f**ing third grader devil dog?!"

From then on out, every morning when I delivered the appropriate greeting of the day "Good Morning, Corporal" he would respond "Good Morning, PFC Routerbad!" and it didn't take long for everyone in the entire squadron to catch on to it.

That was about 11 years ago, and I'm still Routerbad, though one of my peers when I was a seargent wanted it changed to wordpad, it never stuck quite as well. A google search only references me.

EDIT: Just as an additional FYI, when he called me Routerbad, he said it like you would expect a third grader to, in a high pitched, slightly slurred accent.

UE4 is made with nVidia GPUs in mind, almost all special effects are nVidia GPU exclusive ones, made possible by physix and cuda cores technology. All next gen consoles have AMD GPUs, so UE4 wont run in its full glory on any console!

P.S. I am AMD user, so no eye candy for me on my  PC!

I'm an AMD user as well, so I guess I'm out as well.  I need to get rid of my 6870's, slightly disappointed in them.

I noticed this as well, thanks for sharing!

What novelty?

The Wii U exclusive features, they are novel, wouldn't you say?

I don't think the 720 and PS4 will both only sell 20k in 6 months. That would just be silly.

I doubt they'll sell 3M in two months, though.

Hi! Welcome to the forums.

The features are what, touch screen controls?

And I think they will sell around Wii U levels at the lowest.

Yes, the novel features for the novel control mechanic.

Unless they are price matched to the Wii U, I seriously doubt that will be the case. Then again I am not an expert on the matter.

Absolute lies, there is no max frame rate an eye can see.

There is a point at which the differences between two different framerates are literally unperceivable by the human eye.