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Update speed boost to cpu &gpu utter rubbish?


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#41 routerbad

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 12:05 PM

If you take the phone, laptop or handheld console approach to clock speeds then in theory this could happen and there is no reason to believe its not possible.

 

This of course doesn't mean the processor is suddenly 3.24ghz its more likely to be unlocked so that under peak load it can scale to 3.24ghz for games that use this feature. 

 

It's a really good feature to have (if it exists) as you effectively run the console at slow speeds unless you need the extra power. Portable devices do this clearly to save power and sometimes to reduce heat output due to the more difficult cooling of laptops for example.

 

Its a fantastic feature if the wii u has this and I suggested it as possibility many, many months ago when the 1.24ghz clock speed was announced. Mainly because it was just to hard to believe at the time that the wii u would be limited to 1.24ghz and I guess I was clutching at straws hoping that the wii u had power in reserve.

 

There are other factors though and we know the bandwidth of the memory chips is quite low and Nintendo went for the value end of the market so to speak. There is little point stressing the gpu and cpu at higher speeds if you simply haven't got the memory bandwidth to cope with it, the cache can only cache so much.

 

I really hope this is true. Every wii u game that comes out that either matches or underperforms compared to 360 and PS3 is killing it. Yes there are many that bought the wii u for Nintendo's amazing games but others are looking for a good all round console. There is no technical reason why this speed unrestrictor isn't true but that doesn't mean it is and even if true other parts of the wii u may limit what can be achieved at these higher speeds. Nintendo may know that these increased speeds will stress the console more but with the current sales figures is perhaps desperate to try anything that might help.

 

We will be able to validate this when later games arrive that make use of this speed increase as power consumption will spike.

 

Also no reason to believe that even if 3.24ghz has been unlocked for future use, the default speed now hasn't been raised slightly from 1.24ghz to perhaps 1.6ghz for example (wishful thinking).

 

Alternatively the speed increase seen is just down to simple optimisation of code ( far more likely unfortunately)

32MB of EDRAM can effectively pull all of the biggest beandwidth users off of main memory, to the point where main memory bandwidth is unimportant, developers have already said that when they run their benchmarks they are seeing much higher effective speeds than what the hardware should allow for.

 

That said, it is entirely plausible that they allow the clock to be manipulated to a point for games that need it, but I seriously doubt 3.2GHz, and the fact that the person who started this claims that Espresso is just a better PPC750 but out of the other side of his mouth says it is clocked over 3GHz makes the remark completely invalid.



#42 NintendoReport

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 12:07 PM

To note, most multi-plat games thus far have performed about the same across the consoles from BLOPS, AC3, Batman, however it's interesting that many are reporting Injustice of Gods Among Us has the best framerate on Wii U and PS3 the worst. I have read this on numerous forums and in reviews. The Wii U update came a week or so after the release of Injustice though I believe.

 

Anyways. just thought I'd throw that out there. 


Edited by Sorceror12, 10 May 2013 - 12:08 PM.

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#43 Desert Punk

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 12:56 PM

To note, most multi-plat games thus far have performed about the same across the consoles from BLOPS, AC3, Batman, however it's interesting that many are reporting Injustice of Gods Among Us has the best framerate on Wii U and PS3 the worst. I have read this on numerous forums and in reviews. The Wii U update came a week or so after the release of Injustice though I believe.

 

Anyways. just thought I'd throw that out there. 

 

Doesn't that make sense though, wii u has the strongest gpu, xbox 360 second and the ps3 last. Fighter games need low cpu resources and this seems a logical game to perform well on wii u. This follows the pattern most impartial people have predicted for wii u.



32MB of EDRAM can effectively pull all of the biggest beandwidth users off of main memory, to the point where main memory bandwidth is unimportant, developers have already said that when they run their benchmarks they are seeing much higher effective speeds than what the hardware should allow for.

 

That said, it is entirely plausible that they allow the clock to be manipulated to a point for games that need it, but I seriously doubt 3.2GHz, and the fact that the person who started this claims that Espresso is just a better PPC750 but out of the other side of his mouth says it is clocked over 3GHz makes the remark completely invalid.

 

32MB is video memory and is dwarfed by the 1GB of system memory which will be fully utilised with modern games. The 32MB is really just a frame buffer and texture cache, a more generous one than 360 (10MB) but  still most of the data is stored in the main 1GB of memory. 

 

All evidence points to the wii u cpu being very weak especially when you factor in the more modern gpu of the wii u actually performs some tasks that the 360 and PS3 require their cpu's to do. The wii u cpu is directly wii code compatible somehow, that means wii software sees a cpu identical to the original wii. That means even if the processor has extended instructions the bulk of it will be identical including how it handles memory etc and the memory bus to external memory. When Nintendo decided the wii u would be compatible with the wii a huge number of performance compromises had to be made to achieve that.

 

The fact is the wii u is struggling to outperform current gen consoles and is meant to be a very easy console to develop for. No one is doubting the wii u gpu is superior in many ways so something else is severely throttling the performance of the wii u.



#44 routerbad

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 01:11 PM

Doesn't that make sense though, wii u has the strongest gpu, xbox 360 second and the ps3 last. Fighter games need low cpu resources and this seems a logical game to perform well on wii u. This follows the pattern most impartial people have predicted for wii u.



32MB is video memory and is dwarfed by the 1GB of system memory which will be fully utilised with modern games. The 32MB is really just a frame buffer and texture cache, a more generous one than 360 (10MB) but still most of the data is stored in the main 1GB of memory.

All evidence points to the wii u cpu being very weak especially when you factor in the more modern gpu of the wii u actually performs some tasks that the 360 and PS3 require their cpu's to do. The wii u cpu is directly wii code compatible somehow, that means wii software sees a cpu identical to the original wii. That means even if the processor has extended instructions the bulk of it will be identical including how it handles memory etc and the memory bus to external memory. When Nintendo decided the wii u would be compatible with the wii a huge number of performance compromises had to be made to achieve that.

The fact is the wii u is struggling to outperform current gen consoles and is meant to be a very easy console to develop for. No one is doubting the wii u gpu is superior in many ways so something else is severely throttling the performance of the wii u.

It's only code compatible in Wii mode, when two cores are locked and the cache is shrunk.

WiiU is GPU centric, but nevertheless the CPU is stronger than cell and xenon. Your argument doesn't hold water, saying its weaker because the GPU is stronger is not accurate, it doesn't work that way.

All Nintendo and IBM had to do was ensure that one core was code compatible with Wii, not a difficult task for a company specializing in custom CPU applications.

No where is WiiU struggling to outperform current gen consoles, switching an engine from relying on high clocked, in order, long piped CPUs to one with lower clocks, shorter pipelines, and out of order execution but higher IPC cannot happen without rewriting all of the game engine code, and six months or less is not enough time to do it.

The claims you're making have been repeatedly and easily buried.

As for the cache, you do realize that the services that are bandwidth sensitive are all very small. The frame buffer is immensely important despite being ridiculously tiny, 32MB is more than enough to also hold some commonly accessed texture data. Of course the rest is going to be held in main memory or streamed from disc, but the bandwidth is high enough to handle that.

To add, Nintendo are the kings of tessellation, and decent Tess allows for dynamic textures that don't get stored in RAM.

Fighters are typically more CPU intensive and regardless it would have been designed for each specific console to utilize the power available. Injustice on PS3 and 360 is running primarily on CPU, all games designed for those platforms do.

Edited by routerbad, 10 May 2013 - 01:14 PM.


#45 3Dude

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 01:17 PM

That would be the complete and absolute lack of developer tools up to and past launch as criterion stated.

And an i7 is code compatable with a core 2 duo. Its almost like the x86 architecture is one of the oldest in computer hardware.

That doesnt really mean anything.

The simd performance is known to be 'weak' compared to xenon and cell. But ive got some really old news for you.

Xenon and cell beat both ps4 and durangos cpu's in cpu simd as well.

Its almost lile they are using netbook cpu's like jaguars or something.

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#46 Tacomywaffles

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 01:19 PM

Not sure how Overclocking effects the performance of a machine.

 

just out of curiosity. does doubling the Hz double the performance?
 



#47 routerbad

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 01:21 PM

Not sure how Overclocking effects the performance of a machine.

 

just out of curiosity. does doubling the Hz double the performance?
 

raising the clock increases the amount of work done.  Double clock speed and you effectively get twice as many clocks per second in which to perform tasks.

 

So, yes.



#48 Tacomywaffles

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 01:30 PM

raising the clock increases the amount of work done.  Double clock speed and you effectively get twice as many clocks per second in which to perform tasks.

 

So, yes.

 

Thats cool, to bad the rumor is fake :/



#49 BrosBeforeGardenTools

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 01:37 PM

Marcan said its fake on Twitter. I'm not sure he tested it or not, but his opinion is still valid.

#50 routerbad

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 01:57 PM

Marcan said its fake on Twitter. I'm not sure he tested it or not, but his opinion is still valid.

He probably did.  I trust his word on this, but at the same time, if there were a software dependent CPU/GPU clock unlock or bump, there would be no way to know that without having software that was built to take advantage of it, or digging around very low level code.  I wonder if he has access to the kernel power states.



#51 alan123

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 02:06 PM

Until Nintendo confirm this, any discussion is pretty pointless, they can obviously change things & the way hardware runs just in the say way that everyone else can when they update the firmware or graphics drivers.



#52 Scumbag

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 02:13 PM

I don't really care if this rumour is true or not but we have proof Wii U can perform like a 3.2ghz CPU and outperform in some areas which is some feat.


Edited by Forza Juventus, 10 May 2013 - 02:14 PM.


#53 TheDoritoKing

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 02:29 PM

Sorceror12, on 10 May 2013 - 06:43 AM, said:Could it still be possible that there was a boost in clock speeds but of course not that insane amount which is beyond reality? 

That's what I'm thinking.



#54 MorbidGod

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 04:07 PM

Is it not possible to overclock core speeds with an update? I'd assume you could.
The numbers on display however are far too high. Surely it would be possible to take the CPU speeds up to say, 2.0 GHZ and the GPU to 600 MHZ.
I'm not suggesting this rumour is true (it's clearly not), I'm just saying would it not be possible, just to a lesser extent?

I really don't think we will see an increase in the CPU. Maybe the GPU, but that is highly unlikely.

But to original poster, it's not true.

And to clarify, it is possible, I just don't think it is likely.

Edited by MorbidGod, 10 May 2013 - 04:20 PM.

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#55 tboss

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 04:16 PM

call BS on high speed buff. low speed Buff may be possible, GPU much more likly than CPU (estimated 5% to 10%, still double the chances).

 

neogaf has claimed games running better after the update, this is much more beleaveable, and something i expected between the 2 updates,  but no true official confirmation that i know of.

 

the second improvement would simply be from more efficient code doing 2+1 instead of 1+1+1


Edited by tboss, 10 May 2013 - 04:17 PM.


#56 NintendoReport

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 04:51 PM

Don't want to jump the shark here but found this post on gamefaqs forums, predicting the future LOL.

 

From February 1st, 2013

 

 

Pendragoon
Posted 2/1/2013 12:03:38 PM
Ryan Si posted...
Wow, Nintendo fanboys are really getting desperate after Sony's PS4 tease. 

"Hidden power reserves" that Nintendo will magically activate across all Wii U systems at a later date.....lol.


An overclock isn't unreasonable. There is plenty of room to up the cpu clock speeds to 3ghz and up the gpu to 650 or higher. The thermal increase would be minor as would the increased power draw. (due to how low the power draw already is)

While unlikely it isn't something that is impossible, in fact it is very doable.

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#57 grahamf

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 10:36 PM

 

 

32MB is video memory and is dwarfed by the 1GB of system memory which will be fully utilised with modern games. The 32MB is really just a frame buffer and texture cache, a more generous one than 360 (10MB) but  still most of the data is stored in the main 1GB of memory. 

 

Yes, but that 32MB can hold pages that are reused many many times, enough that they would induce thrashing on systems with less L1 cache.

 

 

That being said, I had just played lego City for 8 hours straight and My wii U is still cool to the touch. I have no doubt that nintendo can increase the clock speed in an update, but double is kinda unrealistic.


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#58 SoldMyWiiUAndLeftTheForums

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 02:18 AM

Well from what I've heard it could have been overclocked a tiny bit but nowhere near as much as this rumor states, very unlikely Nintendo would do this anyway.



#59 Julio93

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 10:09 PM

Utter rubbish indeed.


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#60 Zonark

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 08:37 AM

What utter rubbish if there was any change in the clock it'd be from 1.24Ghz to 1.48/1.5 and from 550Mhz to 600Mhz, impossible to go further without a massive chunky cooling system in place for OCing, even OCing it by that small amount may cause 360 style RRODs


It is possible for them to speed it up even more the entire console has been under clocked to maintain a if I recall 30 percent use of fan power. The could up this thing a lot and still have proper cooling




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