67 replies to this topic

[Nollog]

in after elitism about a videogame demo designed to sell itself to people not attracting sales.

 

Capcom dropped the ball, no matter what you say 3dude and co.

It may make you feel special to win at a badly designed overly-ported game, but it won't get very many sales from this demo.

[taz546565]

People who talk about skill and fighting system go play demon souls that's a proper challenge like nollog say's this just feel's poorly designed to me.

[TheDave545]

Well thanks for the honest replies peeps, nice to see i didnt have to put my flamesuit on, i see what people are saying though, im guessing its mainly a fanbase thing, seeing as that was the first one i played and it seems like everyone agrees that its a poorly made demo.

 

Also taz546565, i agree Demon Souls was a great game, extremely difficult and satisfying to complete too.

[Lightning_Ninja]

Is the demo a great way to get into monster hunter?  No.  Then again, I've been unable to think of or find a quick way to get people to love it. 

 

There are two ways people try monster hunter.  The first way is a demo, in which they don't know what they are doing, don't understand the controls, and just assume its unrewarding gameplay with no fluidity.  Pressing the home button to access the digital manual should help a little bit with the controls, but getting used to the flow of the game takes time.  Monster Hunter is so different from every other game that it's jarring to most people and they think it should play like everything else.

 

The other way is to create an actual file in a game.  There though, they spend quite a few hours where the game teaches them all the supplementary parts of the game (such as gathering necessary items and making equipment) that they think the game is completely boring and just has you doing menial tasks, and as a result, stop playing.  The game spends those first hours telling you to do stuff so that you: 1) know how to do all those extra tasks so you don't rush into a fight with no good equipment, and 2) give you time to adjust a little to the control system, so you have some idea how to fight.

 

The first way tries to give you a taste of the action, while the second tries to prepare you for it.  As far as I can tell there is no good introduction to the series that is quick.  Capcom also was hoping that the veterans would be able to help newcomers, but newcomers have a tendency to enter a forum, trash the game, and then leave instantly.  Fans of the series have heard all the complaints from newcomers so much that we tend to tune it out anymore, and only help those who ask for help.  I know you thnk the series is bad right now, but trust me when I say this, it's not clunky if you know how to play.  You just have to put in the time to learn how to play, and there's a lot to learn.

 

I joined this forum with the sole intent of helping newcomers, since I know how frustrated people get at first.  My second favorite thing to do in the game is help newcomers learn how to play.  There is a steep learning curve to this game, and people either drop it because they don't understand it, or get determined and learn it.  If you want to give the game a chance, look up tutorial videos on youtube.  You'll be able to see how to play the game and probably get some useful tips along the way. 

 

Also, i've found that a lot of people who like the demon/dark souls series tend to like monster hunter due to the difficulty and how you have to be determined to get good.

Edited by Lightning_Ninja, 13 March 2013 - 06:38 PM.

[3Dude]

taz546565, on 13 Mar 2013 - 10:19, said:People who talk about skill and fighting system go play demon souls that's a proper challenge like nollog say's this just feel's poorly designed to me.


Ha ha. Demon souls is easy compared to monster hunter.
 

Nollog, on 13 Mar 2013 - 10:16, said:in after elitism about a videogame demo designed to sell itself to people not attracting sales.
Capcom dropped the ball, no matter what you say 3dude and co.It may make you feel special to win at a badly designed overly-ported game, but it won't get very many sales from this demo.

Lol, anyone whos capable of winning at monster hunter realizes its not poorly designed. In fact, the realization usually goes hand in hand with winning. Simply put, you wont beat you wont beat your first 'real' monster (in tri this would be barroth) until you actually have enough of a grasp on the game to realize its design. By the time a newbie beats barroth, they begin retracting similar complaints.

The demo is not designed to bring in new players, and capcom has no intention of making monster hunter accessible or attractive to new players. Nor do they need to, it sells gangbusters as is.

When they do that, change it to make the controls easier, and computer aided at the expense of user dexterity, they change the name from monster hunter.

See: Dragons Dogma.

Its a great game for people who like the concept of monster hunter but lack the skills to instantly be gratified, lack the determination to learn, and are too conceited to possibly think the fault lies with them.

[dark_rabbid]

EVERYTHING you put there seems boring as hell to me lol i also hate all monster hunter games ive played,they all just seem pointless and boring to me,dont know why....not my cuppa tea

Just curious what games do you like? Heck even games like call of duty allow you to modify your weapons armor abilitys etc. personally I think using a jawbone of a dragon you just killed to make a spear is cool, but that's just me.

[Hunter]

in after elitism about a videogame demo designed to sell itself to people not attracting sales.

 

Capcom dropped the ball, no matter what you say 3dude and co.

It may make you feel special to win at a badly designed overly-ported game, but it won't get very many sales from this demo.

 

a thousand times this.

[Charles211]

Wow that story really made me smile haha. Once you take down your first big monster, you'll understand why people like it. 

 

 

What might help is if I tell how I got into monster hunter.  I'll put in a spoiler so as to keep this thread shorter.

 

Spoiler

I started with Monster hunter Tri for the Wii. I got it pretty much on a whim from seeing it advertised in multiple places and reading an article in Nintendo Power and thought it looked similar to Zelda Twilight Princess. Boy was that a stupid assumption.

I started the game and immediately chose the sword and shield since my favorite series was Zelda and I pretty much wanted to be Link. I did the initial gathering quests and bought some basic armor, and went up through getting the games companion, but I really wanted to see what the online was like. So I hopped online with my terrible internet connection and started questing.

It immediately felt better hunting with other people as I could learn from others, but being on the rookie server meant the other people weren't that much better save for a few. I took down the first 3 boss monsters with a little struggle due to me and others constantly getting disconnected, but I perservered.

After getting to the end of the first batch of quests, I was presented with my first urgent quest, a quest that must be completed to advance to the next group of quests.

At this point, I figured I was fairly good at the game and didn't think it would be that hard, but was still on the fence about how much I actually liked the game. It was this urgent quest where I met Barroth, or as I call him, "the noob killer".

I spent 10 hours on a saturday trying to bring this guy down. Due to getting disconnected and everyone there being so bad at the game, I was only able to attempt it 20 times in that ten hours. I did get advice from some helpful veterans that helped a little (like that I should change my armor since it was the weakest one in the game, lol) but nothing really to get me close to victory. I was getting tired and frustrated, but I was determined not to let this thing win. At this point, I wanted it's blood on my blade and its corpse at my feet.

Eventually, after a 30 min fight, it finally fell. Me and my group were ecstatic and partied in the game for probably ten minutes. It was at this point that the game finally clicked and I got hooked. It's about having the odds stacked against you, and yet still coming out on top. Overcoming obstacles and working together so that when you win, it feels like an accomplishment. Sometimes the rush of adrenaline during the fight, combined with the satisfaction of victory, yields an addiction to the cycle.

I then put over 1200 hours into tri. Then my wii died and I had to start over, but being more skilled, I made much shorter work of getting back to where I left off (I solo'd that urgent quest in ten minutes when I got to it. I wanted vengeance).

 

That should help explain what makes it so great.

 

I really should use spoilers more.

[Nollog]

taz546565, on 13 Mar 2013 - 10:19, said:People who talk about skill and fighting system go play demon souls that's a proper challenge like nollog say's this just feel's poorly designed to me.


Ha ha. Demon souls is easy compared to monster hunter.
 

Nollog, on 13 Mar 2013 - 10:16, said:in after elitism about a videogame demo designed to sell itself to people not attracting sales.
Capcom dropped the ball, no matter what you say 3dude and co.It may make you feel special to win at a badly designed overly-ported game, but it won't get very many sales from this demo.

Lol, anyone whos capable of winning at monster hunter realizes its not poorly designed. In fact, the realization usually goes hand in hand with winning. Simply put, you wont beat you wont beat your first 'real' monster (in tri this would be barroth) until you actually have enough of a grasp on the game to realize its design. By the time a newbie beats barroth, they begin retracting similar complaints.

The demo is not designed to bring in new players, and capcom has no intention of making monster hunter accessible or attractive to new players. Nor do they need to, it sells gangbusters as is.

When they do that, change it to make the controls easier, and computer aided at the expense of user dexterity, they change the name from monster hunter.

See: Dragons Dogma.

Its a great game for people who like the concept of monster hunter but lack the skills to instantly be gratified, lack the determination to learn, and are too conceited to possibly think the fault lies with them.

Demos are always designed to get customers to buy the product.

[syks-1]

Just curious what games do you like? Heck even games like call of duty allow you to modify your weapons armor abilitys etc. personally I think using a jawbone of a dragon you just killed to make a spear is cool, but that's just me.

I like all types of different games,like some fps,platform,rpg,adventure,racing basically a bit of everything but for some reason i have never got into monster hunter,like i said it seems soooooo boring to me and pointless but thats just my oppinion and i know alot of other people think different.....i just dont know why lol

[Lightning_Ninja]

Demos are always designed to get customers to buy the product.

Yeah.  It's just that its impossible to hook people immediately with the way its been designed to be played.  It's a "Time investment => Reward" sort of game.  The beginning of the game is so slow for newcomers that people get bored before they get to the meat, and the demo throws people to the wolves so they are heavily unprepared.

 

Once you give the game time and can get past that initial wall, you will start to see how it can get addictive.  I've heard stories of people who tried the series five times and didn't like it, then they went a little slower and gave it a chance instead of just writing it off.  Once they put time into it, they got hooked.

 

If someone has enough patience and determination to get into the Monster Hunter Cycle of, "prepare>fight>reward>repeat" they usually love it.  Its just sticking out until the game clicks for you.

[3Dude]

Nollog, on 14 Mar 2013 - 02:18, said:Demos are always designed to get customers to buy the product.


Yes they are. The question is, WHO is the customer.

You arent the customer. People already into the series are who the demo is meant to attract. Capcom will NEVER change anything about monster hunter to try and attract newcomers. If they do, they dont call it monster hunter anymore.

"We've got a very clear vision of what a Monster Hunter game is," Tsujimoto said. "If we were to change the game system and what we believe is Monster Hunter to something else, then we don't have to name it Monster Hunter. We would just call it something else."

"We don't want to betray the existing fans for the sake of getting new people in. Rather than changing the game itself, we want to expand the way it can be played, for instance, releasing it on Nintendo 3DS and Wii U."

"At the end of the day, Monster Hunter is an action game," he said. "It's got to be challenging. It's got to be solid in that sense. Not to the extent that it's heartbreaking. But it's got to have significant points to it."

"You have a breakthrough. You hit a wall. You ponder for a bit. And then you breakthrough again. There are significant steps where you are satisfied in each, but it's never heartbreaking. It's a matter of balance in that sense."

--Ryozo Tsujimoto

You guys give up the moment you hit the first wall. Thats fine.

The games fantastic, but its not for you. Get over it.

Edited by 3Dude, 14 March 2013 - 11:27 AM.

[Nollog]

So capcom don't want to expand their sales at all?

Seems crazy with new people being born all the time and the old fans dying of boredom.

[Gamejunkie]

Because it keeps people who shouldnt play out.

Which is a very condescending statement.

Nollog, on 14 Mar 2013 - 02:18, said:Demos are always designed to get customers to buy the product.
Yes they are. The question is, WHO is the customer.
You arent the customer. People already into the series are who the demo is meant to attract. Capcom will NEVER change anything about monster hunter to try and attract newcomers. If they do, they dont call it monster hunter anymore.
"We've got a very clear vision of what a Monster Hunter game is," Tsujimoto said. "If we were to change the game system and what we believe is Monster Hunter to something else, then we don't have to name it Monster Hunter. We would just call it something else."
"We don't want to betray the existing fans for the sake of getting new people in. Rather than changing the game itself, we want to expand the way it can be played, for instance, releasing it on Nintendo 3DS and Wii U."
"At the end of the day, Monster Hunter is an action game," he said. "It's got to be challenging. It's got to be solid in that sense. Not to the extent that it's heartbreaking. But it's got to have significant points to it."
"You have a breakthrough. You hit a wall. You ponder for a bit. And then you breakthrough again. There are significant steps where you are satisfied in each, but it's never heartbreaking. It's a matter of balance in that sense."
--Ryozo Tsujimoto
You guys give up the moment you hit the first wall. Thats fine.
The games fantastic, but its not for you. Get over it.

Also very condescending not to mention an eliteist attitude.

[3Dude]

So capcom don't want to expand their sales at all?
Seems crazy with new people being born all the time and the old fans dying of boredom.

Sure they do. But they dont call it monster hunter See: Dragons Dogma.

As fot MH, capcom seems pretty happy leaving monster hunter as one of their highest grossing most consistent franchises, instead of ruining it by casualizing the game for the mainstream, who will lose interest quickly and move onto the next fad.... Like some of their previous Capcom high grossers now record fallers have done.

As of right now its only behind street fighter, Resident evil (gaining fast) and megaman (gaining fast) In units moved.

www.capcom.co.jp/ir/english/business/salesdata.html

So, no. Capcom doesnt appear to need to 'expand' to the 'Dream of capturing the CoD fans'
For monster hunter.


www.relyonhorror.com/latest-news/capcom-looking-to-attract-call-of-duty-fans-to-resident-evil-series/

Edited by 3Dude, 14 March 2013 - 06:01 PM.

[ChrisTerror]

Nollog, on 14 Mar 2013 - 02:18, said:Demos are always designed to get customers to buy the product.


Yes they are. The question is, WHO is the customer.

You arent the customer. People already into the series are who the demo is meant to attract. Capcom will NEVER change anything about monster hunter to try and attract newcomers. If they do, they dont call it monster hunter anymore.

"We've got a very clear vision of what a Monster Hunter game is," Tsujimoto said. "If we were to change the game system and what we believe is Monster Hunter to something else, then we don't have to name it Monster Hunter. We would just call it something else."

"We don't want to betray the existing fans for the sake of getting new people in. Rather than changing the game itself, we want to expand the way it can be played, for instance, releasing it on Nintendo 3DS and Wii U."

"At the end of the day, Monster Hunter is an action game," he said. "It's got to be challenging. It's got to be solid in that sense. Not to the extent that it's heartbreaking. But it's got to have significant points to it."

"You have a breakthrough. You hit a wall. You ponder for a bit. And then you breakthrough again. There are significant steps where you are satisfied in each, but it's never heartbreaking. It's a matter of balance in that sense."

--Ryozo Tsujimoto

You guys give up the moment you hit the first wall. Thats fine.

The games fantastic, but its not for you. Get over it.

     As a MH fan, Im actually going to agree to this because though it may seem condescending and rude to some, i know why the things that were said were said, i know why the people who never played or were into this game disliked the demo and have the whole wrong idea about what this game is. MH is a fanbase game, the demo (and pretty much every sequel) was meant to be for those who have already been a part of this game.

     Heck, for me when i first heard about it, i wanted to see what the hype was about so i had to do A LOT of reading, wiki's and video watching to get what all was involved with this game and mind was blown, and it seemed like something i would be into. Crafting, mining, farming, traps, weapons, armor, potions, hit locations, strategy, spending days just trying to learn how to kill one monster, No health bars on monsters, no auto lock, time consuming, weapon selection for different fights, killing other monsters for that rare drop that you need to craft a different weapon or armor to help you kill the next monster, ect all are things that actually things that make this game what it is in the big picture.

     The name Monster Hunter isnt just some catchy title, you really are spending a lot of time setting up to go hunt a monster. If its not for you then mad respect to ya, its not for everyone like every other game out there, but dont call it a bad game just because you call the things that make it shine a flaw in a game you dont understand.

Edited by ChrisTerror, 14 March 2013 - 11:53 PM.

[Nollog]

Sure they do. But they dont call it monster hunter See: Dragons Dogma.

As fot MH, capcom seems pretty happy leaving monster hunter as one of their highest grossing most consistent franchises, instead of ruining it by casualizing the game for the mainstream, who will lose interest quickly and move onto the next fad.... Like some of their previous Capcom high grossers now record fallers have done.

As of right now its only behind street fighter, Resident evil (gaining fast) and megaman (gaining fast) In units moved.

www.capcom.co.jp/ir/english/business/salesdata.html

So, no. Capcom doesnt appear to need to 'expand' to the 'Dream of capturing the CoD fans'
For monster hunter.


www.relyonhorror.com/latest-news/capcom-looking-to-attract-call-of-duty-fans-to-resident-evil-series/

I can't argue that it doesn't sell well in Japan, but out west I don't get why they even still bother to translate it. They don't sell very many at all.

Of course it is just a port, so costs are low, MH4 will show more.

[Smertrius]

MH3 ulitmate is out on the 29th of march in europe on wii u and 3ds, for 3ds costumers temporary the 3ds version include 3ds XL circle pad pro free.

[Lightning_Ninja]

I can't argue that it doesn't sell well in Japan, but out west I don't get why they even still bother to translate it. They don't sell very many at all.

Of course it is just a port, so costs are low, MH4 will show more.

I believe Monster Hunter Tri for wii was the first MH game to sell over 1 Million in the west.  Ithink It's over 1.5 million now.  Basically, when someone gets into MH they usually don't "get out" of it.  So long as more people get added to the fanbase with each release, the series will only gain steam.

 

And resident evil is probably a good example of why capcom shouldn't change monster hunter to get more fans.  When they try that tactic it usually turns out badly.

Edited by Lightning_Ninja, 15 March 2013 - 05:54 AM.

[tboss]

Angry Birds gamer IQ < 90

Everything else

Monster Hunter gamer IQ > 120

That help?

 

that actualy sounds about right. monster hunter has been borderline on weather or not i should get. i failed when i attempted the hard to use guys. easily beat the first boss in 1 try with the default guy =/(2nd try total counting the gun person), didnt beat the second in time, and ended up still annoyed with underwater controls, the guy always attacked horizontly underwater, when i tried up or down, and several others.

 

IQ is ruffly 125, scored above 130 and below 120 before so very wide margin.

I believe Monster Hunter Tri for wii was the first MH game to sell over 1 Million in the west.  Ithink It's over 1.5 million now.  Basically, when someone gets into MH they usually don't "get out" of it.  So long as more people get added to the fanbase with each release, the series will only gain steam.

 

And resident evil is probably a good example of why capcom shouldn't change monster hunter to get more fans.  When they try that tactic it usually turns out badly.

 

actualy i cant think of a time that worked. in any game. 

 

like MH im  on the fence on if i should get it or not. some control features i find acceptable/no issue(such as camra, and no running/life refilling with weapon drawn), some i find unnecassary. i do know if i do get this game i will go for the most agile kind of guy i can get.