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What happens if we see nextgen graphics from Wii U at E3?


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#21 routerbad

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Posted 18 May 2013 - 08:24 PM

so so true ^^



you keep saying the same feature set as if that means anything at all. The games that come out and the people that choose to buy Nintendo or Sony/Microsoft will determine if the Wii U is a success. Just because things do the "same" thing doesn't make them equal.

It actually does.  Having the same featureset is huge.  they can all do exactly the same things, support all of the same engines, all have similar API's, etc.

 

Also, the second part of your response to me has nothing to do with what I said or why I said it.  It seems you had nothing substantive to say other than "as if" but had to fill in some white space.  Being the console with the weakest hardware in a generation where they will all be extremely close and all support the same techniques, features, and engines is as meaningless as it gets.

 

Well the  Killzone Shadow Fall footage we have seen only used 3 GB of the 8GB that the PS4 has so yeah, it's gonna be hard to top that. Wii U games will still look alright, but I expect in 2-3 years for the gap between Wii U and PS4-Nextbox to be pretty damn noticeable.

<Sigh>

Another post from someone who knows absolutely nothing about hardware or graphics development.  just, just go.



#22 MorbidGod

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Posted 18 May 2013 - 09:01 PM

I was going to post this on Neogaf but the negativity towards Wii U is too strong. My question is this as the title says. If 3D mario, mario kart, Smash4, Bayo2, X, and others all show leaps and graphics comparable to PS4, and 720 what happens. Many here tend to believe that once the big name games are shown... They will be graphical showcases and all 3rd parties are gonna come running. I have no idea what Wii U will be able to do graphically. We have histroy of Nintendo making strong console (gamecube) or some a little better than the previous gen(3ds Wii) so what exactly is the Wii U no doubt the games shown at E3 will answer that question. And if they show than can walk toe to toe with launch games from ps4 and 720 what do you guys think will be the result from the industry( competition sony and microsoft, the media, journalist, and core gamers)?


Well, lets start out by saying the 3DS is a huge leap over the original DS. Second, I don't think a game with good graphics will change any 3rd party developer's minds. It just will make their excuses look dumb (*cough* EA *cough*). And third ... Nintendo fans will be happy, non Nintendo fans won't believe it and the Wii U will still be weak in the minds of many.

That's my prediction.
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#23 Pjsprojects

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Posted 18 May 2013 - 11:40 PM

I really don't think Nintendo E3 will be a big deal,we already know what games are due out and they know Sony/M$ will steal the show so hence the collection of Direct shows.

 

I'm more interested in what these Nintendo directs show than what is going to be a token gesture at E3. 


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#24 GAMER1984

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Posted 19 May 2013 - 01:40 AM

Well, lets start out by saying the 3DS is a huge leap over the original DS. Second, I don't think a game with good graphics will change any 3rd party developer's minds. It just will make their excuses look dumb (*cough* EA *cough*). And third ... Nintendo fans will be happy, non Nintendo fans won't believe it and the Wii U will still be weak in the minds of many.

That's my prediction.


I meant the competition last gen systems like the PSP. 3ds has more modern GPU and better overall specs but it doesn't trounce the PSP its basically has just enough horsepower to outdue what PSP can do.

#25 Desert Punk

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Posted 19 May 2013 - 02:15 AM

The wii u is definitely capable of producing graphics slightly above 360/PS3, it has a superior feature set and where ever you look for technical analysis including neogaf its at least as powerful with regard gflops. It's always been the wii'u's cpu performance and main memory bandwidth that has been criticised. Its a gpu-centric console and gpu-centric games will perform very well on it.

 

Lets not also forget cartoon graphics need far less gpu resources. Anything Mario or Zelda is not going for a realistic looking game world.

 

What I want is fantastic games and the wii u is more than capable of this.

 

It will not compete with the ps4 and new xbox graphically for major fps games etc and lets face it, it not getting them anyway as the wii u is not supported for the required game engines.

 

Dare I mention again that a console based on a low cost basic 40nm fabrication process, using low bandwidth memory chips and drawing less power than a 360 and PS3 is not going to compete with these new sony and microsoft consoles. The miracle is that Nintendo have manufactured a console with such low end components drawing so little power that it is actually competitive with the 360 and PS3 in performance and exceeds them in some ways. This is nothing new, when Nintendo launched the wii it was less powerful than the outgoing original xbox but performed at a similar level with very low cost components and used much less power in comparison. Again the one thing it had more than the xbox was memory, which helped slightly as it had no hard drive (same issue with the wii u).

 

The gaming experience performance difference between wii u and ps4/xbox 720 is relatively the same difference as wii compared to ps3/360. However lets not forget the gamepad offers a whole new avenue of gaming ideas not possible on ps4/xbox 720. Also wii u fully supports the motion controllers of wii and the wii u is such a huge massive jump in performance compared to the original wii. The gamecube offered 8 gflops gpu performance, the wii offered 12glfops (same gpu as gamecube just 50% faster) and the wii u is estimated to be about 350 gflops (300-400 range). However this is not competitive with ps4 (1800gflops) or xbox 720 (1400 gflops) but its still a huge upgrade for Nintendo programmers to create their magic.



#26 MorbidGod

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Posted 19 May 2013 - 05:43 AM

The wii u is definitely capable of producing graphics slightly above 360/PS3, it has a superior feature set and where ever you look for technical analysis including neogaf its at least as powerful with regard gflops. It's always been the wii'u's cpu performance and main memory bandwidth that has been criticised. Its a gpu-centric console and gpu-centric games will perform very well on it.

Lets not also forget cartoon graphics need far less gpu resources. Anything Mario or Zelda is not going for a realistic looking game world.

What I want is fantastic games and the wii u is more than capable of this.

It will not compete with the ps4 and new xbox graphically for major fps games etc and lets face it, it not getting them anyway as the wii u is not supported for the required game engines.

Dare I mention again that a console based on a low cost basic 40nm fabrication process, using low bandwidth memory chips and drawing less power than a 360 and PS3 is not going to compete with these new sony and microsoft consoles. The miracle is that Nintendo have manufactured a console with such low end components drawing so little power that it is actually competitive with the 360 and PS3 in performance and exceeds them in some ways. This is nothing new, when Nintendo launched the wii it was less powerful than the outgoing original xbox but performed at a similar level with very low cost components and used much less power in comparison. Again the one thing it had more than the xbox was memory, which helped slightly as it had no hard drive (same issue with the wii u).

The gaming experience performance difference between wii u and ps4/xbox 720 is relatively the same difference as wii compared to ps3/360. However lets not forget the gamepad offers a whole new avenue of gaming ideas not possible on ps4/xbox 720. Also wii u fully supports the motion controllers of wii and the wii u is such a huge massive jump in performance compared to the original wii. The gamecube offered 8 gflops gpu performance, the wii offered 12glfops (same gpu as gamecube just 50% faster) and the wii u is estimated to be about 350 gflops (300-400 range). However this is not competitive with ps4 (1800gflops) or xbox 720 (1400 gflops) but its still a huge upgrade for Nintendo programmers to create their magic.

I disagree that the PS4 is as powerful as you say. They are using mid-level parts, nothing to fancy. Yes, better than the Wii U -- which is to be expected. But to say the difference between the Wii U and PS4 is the same as Wii vs PS3 is an outcry. The Wii wasn't even able to run modern engines while the Wii U CAN. It CAN run Crysis 3, with all it's modern upgrades. It can run Unreal 4 (if the developer wants to do the grunt work and get it working on the platform -- which isn't going to happen probably). But the point is it can run. I would even bet that it can run Frostbite 3, just EA doesn't want to spend the money on porting their engine (and I have pointed out a perfectly logical reason here ( http://thewiiu.com/t...e-2#entry208562 ) as to why EA doesn't want to support Nintendo. It has nothing to do with how powerful the Wii U is or is not. Again, your own words the Wii U is at least as powerful as the PS3 and 360, yet EA is able to get Frostbite 3 to run on those platforms and not the Wii U? Does that make sense? No, of course not.

I think we agree on how powerful the Wii U is. We both know it's not as powerful as the PS4. How can it be? Sony has had more time with the PS4 than Nintendo did with the Wii U. More time = better and cheaper technology. However, we disagree on just how powerful the PS4 is going to be. We really don't know enough about the specs to know anything of what it can do. Sony only gave us the numbers they wanted us to hear. But giving the CPU, and that it's not meant to be a powerhouse, I doubt they made it one for the PS4. They would have used AMD FX-8150 if they wanted that. And the simple fact that the dev kits had a standard AMD A10 processor ( http://www.techpower...md-a10-apu.html ) which is a BUDGET APU not meant to compete with the big boy in town, Intel i7. It's more of a LOW POWERED APU with a GOOD GPU built into the processor itself. This means that EVERY launch title will be using THIS processor and GPU combo to run, and wouldn't even be designed for the APU that is currently in the PS4. Why would AMD choose the A10 for developers? Because it is the closest STOCK part to what they are going to be using. That means, whatever customizations being used, the processor will end up being similar to a MID GRADE BUDGET PC.

Now I assume the Xbox 720 is going to be similar. We will know more this Tuesday though. However, the Wii U vs PS4, I would say the Wii U is roughly 3-5 times more powerful then the PS3 while the PS4 is roughly 6-8, max 10 times more powerful than the PS3. Which means the Wii U is 3-5 times less powerful than the PS4. WHICH if the Wii U, using your OWN words, is slightly more powerful than the PS3/Xbox 360, then the PS4 is just SLIGHTLY more powerful than the Wii U. This is not my words, but yours. If you disagree, then you disagree with yourself.

Edited by MorbidGod, 19 May 2013 - 05:47 AM.

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#27 thunderspider

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Posted 19 May 2013 - 05:45 AM

Desert Punk, on 19 May 2013 - 07:15 AM, said:The wii u is definitely capable of producing graphics slightly above 360/PS3, it has a superior feature set and where ever you look for technical analysis including neogaf its at least as powerful with regard gflops. It's always been the wii'u's cpu performance and main memory bandwidth that has been criticised. Its a gpu-centric console and gpu-centric games will perform very well on it.
Lets not also forget cartoon graphics need far less gpu resources. Anything Mario or Zelda is not going for a realistic looking game world.
What I want is fantastic games and the wii u is more than capable of this.
It will not compete with the ps4 and new xbox graphically for major fps games etc and lets face it, it not getting them anyway as the wii u is not supported for the required game engines.
Dare I mention again that a console based on a low cost basic 40nm fabrication process, using low bandwidth memory chips and drawing less power than a 360 and PS3 is not going to compete with these new sony and microsoft consoles. The miracle is that Nintendo have manufactured a console with such low end components drawing so little power that it is actually competitive with the 360 and PS3 in performance and exceeds them in some ways. This is nothing new, when Nintendo launched the wii it was less powerful than the outgoing original xbox but performed at a similar level with very low cost components and used much less power in comparison. Again the one thing it had more than the xbox was memory, which helped slightly as it had no hard drive (same issue with the wii u).
The gaming experience performance difference between wii u and ps4/xbox 720 is relatively the same difference as wii compared to ps3/360. However lets not forget the gamepad offers a whole new avenue of gaming ideas not possible on ps4/xbox 720. Also wii u fully supports the motion controllers of wii and the wii u is such a huge massive jump in performance compared to the original wii. The gamecube offered 8 gflops gpu performance, the wii offered 12glfops (same gpu as gamecube just 50% faster) and the wii u is estimated to be about 350 gflops (300-400 range). However this is not competitive with ps4 (1800gflops) or xbox 720 (1400 gflops) but its still a huge upgrade for Nintendo programmers to create their magic.
Oh my god. since when the difference between 1800 to 352 gflops ,and close tech is the same as 240 gflops to 12 ? the difference between wii to ps3 is more than 12 x, the wii u to ps4 is about 4 . I mean HOW, how you still insist with this argument.



Desert Punk, on 19 May 2013 - 07:15 AM, said:The wii u is definitely capable of producing graphics slightly above 360/PS3, it has a superior feature set and where ever you look for technical analysis including neogaf its at least as powerful with regard gflops. It's always been the wii'u's cpu performance and main memory bandwidth that has been criticised. Its a gpu-centric console and gpu-centric games will perform very well on it.
Lets not also forget cartoon graphics need far less gpu resources. Anything Mario or Zelda is not going for a realistic looking game world.
What I want is fantastic games and the wii u is more than capable of this.
It will not compete with the ps4 and new xbox graphically for major fps games etc and lets face it, it not getting them anyway as the wii u is not supported for the required game engines.
Dare I mention again that a console based on a low cost basic 40nm fabrication process, using low bandwidth memory chips and drawing less power than a 360 and PS3 is not going to compete with these new sony and microsoft consoles. The miracle is that Nintendo have manufactured a console with such low end components drawing so little power that it is actually competitive with the 360 and PS3 in performance and exceeds them in some ways. This is nothing new, when Nintendo launched the wii it was less powerful than the outgoing original xbox but performed at a similar level with very low cost components and used much less power in comparison. Again the one thing it had more than the xbox was memory, which helped slightly as it had no hard drive (same issue with the wii u).
The gaming experience performance difference between wii u and ps4/xbox 720 is relatively the same difference as wii compared to ps3/360. However lets not forget the gamepad offers a whole new avenue of gaming ideas not possible on ps4/xbox 720. Also wii u fully supports the motion controllers of wii and the wii u is such a huge massive jump in performance compared to the original wii. The gamecube offered 8 gflops gpu performance, the wii offered 12glfops (same gpu as gamecube just 50% faster) and the wii u is estimated to be about 350 gflops (300-400 range). However this is not competitive with ps4 (1800gflops) or xbox 720 (1400 gflops) but its still a huge upgrade for Nintendo programmers to create their magic.
Oh my god. since when the difference between 1800 to 352 gflops ,and close tech is the same as 240 gflops to 12 ? the difference between wii to ps3 is more than 12 x, the wii u to ps4 is about 4 . I mean HOW, how you still insist with this argument.



#28 thechamp80

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Posted 19 May 2013 - 07:26 AM

It actually does.  Having the same featureset is huge.  they can all do exactly the same things, support all of the same engines, all have similar API's, etc.

 

Also, the second part of your response to me has nothing to do with what I said or why I said it.  It seems you had nothing substantive to say other than "as if" but had to fill in some white space.  Being the console with the weakest hardware in a generation where they will all be extremely close and all support the same techniques, features, and engines is as meaningless as it gets.

 

<Sigh>

Another post from someone who knows absolutely nothing about hardware or graphics development.  just, just go.

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#29 Kokirii

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Posted 19 May 2013 - 09:38 AM

It doesnt matter what happens, certain loud people have already invested in a certain narrative, and will spin anything to fit it.

 

^------ This.  

 

It has now become like politics.  It doesn't matter what the one party does - the people who support the other party will automatically hate it because it has the other party's name on it.  


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#30 DéliopT

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Posted 19 May 2013 - 10:36 AM

What will happen?

 

Denial... ripping of hairs... anger... worlds shattering...

Something like that.


 

 


#31 thechamp80

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Posted 19 May 2013 - 10:45 AM

You will see great graphics out of the Wii U. The problem is that the next gen systems will only look better over time. It takes a while for developers to take advantage of a system's capability.



#32 3Dude

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Posted 19 May 2013 - 10:52 AM

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#33 Keviin

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Posted 19 May 2013 - 10:58 AM

people are saying they don't think the 3D Mario will look that impressive, why? 3D Mario games tend to show both what the system is capable of and concept. it's the title i'm MOST looking forward to @ E3.


SMG looked amazing for a Wii game. Looked near-ps360 to me. So 3D Mario U should look good too.
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#34 routerbad

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Posted 19 May 2013 - 12:13 PM

8GB DDR5 mayne. It can't be stopped.

 

There is no ddr5 yet.

He's trolling.  Regardless, GDDR5 won't make any difference with regard to game visuals.



The wii u is definitely capable of producing graphics slightly above 360/PS3, it has a superior feature set and where ever you look for technical analysis including neogaf its at least as powerful with regard gflops. It's always been the wii'u's cpu performance and main memory bandwidth that has been criticised. Its a gpu-centric console and gpu-centric games will perform very well on it.

 

Lets not also forget cartoon graphics need far less gpu resources. Anything Mario or Zelda is not going for a realistic looking game world.

 

What I want is fantastic games and the wii u is more than capable of this.

 

It will not compete with the ps4 and new xbox graphically for major fps games etc and lets face it, it not getting them anyway as the wii u is not supported for the required game engines.

 

Dare I mention again that a console based on a low cost basic 40nm fabrication process, using low bandwidth memory chips and drawing less power than a 360 and PS3 is not going to compete with these new sony and microsoft consoles. The miracle is that Nintendo have manufactured a console with such low end components drawing so little power that it is actually competitive with the 360 and PS3 in performance and exceeds them in some ways. This is nothing new, when Nintendo launched the wii it was less powerful than the outgoing original xbox but performed at a similar level with very low cost components and used much less power in comparison. Again the one thing it had more than the xbox was memory, which helped slightly as it had no hard drive (same issue with the wii u).

 

The gaming experience performance difference between wii u and ps4/xbox 720 is relatively the same difference as wii compared to ps3/360. However lets not forget the gamepad offers a whole new avenue of gaming ideas not possible on ps4/xbox 720. Also wii u fully supports the motion controllers of wii and the wii u is such a huge massive jump in performance compared to the original wii. The gamecube offered 8 gflops gpu performance, the wii offered 12glfops (same gpu as gamecube just 50% faster) and the wii u is estimated to be about 350 gflops (300-400 range). However this is not competitive with ps4 (1800gflops) or xbox 720 (1400 gflops) but its still a huge upgrade for Nintendo programmers to create their magic.

Nothing you said is correct, just none of it.  "GPU-Centric games" all next gen games will be GPU centric because all next gen systems are GPU centric. 

 

The main memory bandwidth is not understood, and only criticized by sites that are willing to forgo journalistic integrity for hits. When any real analysis or discussion is done, with people who actually develop for the system, there are never any of these criticisms.  No criticism of the GPU, no criticism of the memory architecture, and yes, not even any criticism of the CPU.

 

40nm is not a cheap process, it is just common at the moment.  They are not using "low bandwifth" RAM chips, they are using DDR3, the current general purpose processing memory standard.  Their memory architecture is actually much more robust and efficient than PS4's.

 

Wii U isn't "competitive" with PS3 and 360, it wallops them, The weak point of the WiiU (the CPU) is more powerful than both of the PPE based CPU's with regards to IPC.  The only area where it is weaker is SIMD, which is not necessary on a GPU centric system.  Still, the SIMD on the CPU is enough to get equivalent if not better performance on games that are ported and running on two of the CPU cores (using CPU SIMD still, rather than GPU).  It was revealed recently that all of the ports for the WiiU only had access to two of the CPU cores because the tools were very immature, it still was able to run CPU-centric games.

 

Again you are arguing GLFOPs when they mean so very little.  When will some of you people realize that FLOPS is the new GHz, its the big number that can be used to market chips.  WiiU has fewer FLOPS from fully programmable shaders, yes, but 50% of the GPU logic is not accounted for.  PS4 will be pretty much all unified shaders, no custom logic.  WiiU is not the same, and while it is still a weaker GPU, it is not as weak as you think.

 

For reference, RSX (PS3 GPU) was marketed by Sony as having 1.8TFLOPs.

 

Your arguments are tired, and you apparently refuse to read anything that isn't in agreement with your confirmation bias.  Learn something before responding again with nonsense.



#35 richyque

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Posted 19 May 2013 - 12:28 PM

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#36 joiemoie

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Posted 19 May 2013 - 12:31 PM

Nintendo will be releasing Nintendiroom which projects the screen across the entire room, along with hardware that constantly gets updated through software patches. They will announce "pass the controller and controller streaming" since the wii u pad uses wifi streaming. Also, the 2 ram in the console was really just 8GB of ram folded twice, and will unfold through a software patch on the week of E3. 

 

EA will announce that it secretly loved the Wii U the entire time and was partnered with it, and used the hatred to attract more attention to the Wii U. It went by the secret name of SEGA "EA with an S before the E and a G before the A" and has been secretly making business deals with Nintendo, along with Sonic Lost World's exclusivity, to launch the Wii U way up. 

 

During E3, they will reveal the next Super Smash Bros game out of nowhere. But instead of just being a trailer, they will announce that it will feature a 5000 player gamemode where they have all the attendees playing on a massive stage and 500 teams at the same time.

 

The wii u gamepad also has a cupholder slot, which is retractable and can be purchased in the Nintendo Eshop for $5.

 

All this shall be announced on E3.



#37 Soul

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Posted 19 May 2013 - 12:40 PM

Well the Killzone Shadow Fall footage we have seen only used 3 GB of the 8GB that the PS4 has so yeah, it's gonna be hard to top that. Wii U games will still look alright, but I expect in 2-3 years for the gap between Wii U and PS4-Nextbox to be pretty damn noticeable.

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#38 Skywalkman-GB

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Posted 19 May 2013 - 12:53 PM

Why graphics? Doesn't gameplay matter the most? Who cares about graphics, that is why Crysis was garbage.

I really loved crisis 1 and warhead!, they were really great graphics and gameplay, most at the time of release could not run it so it got a little slated, in fact people still have issues running it as it was so ahead of its time,  but the SP was fantastic, the MP was ok but not enough players, and the story line has continued through 3 more games, so you say it was rubbish, think again!. Cry engine 2 was the best, wish more games were made on it really.


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#39 SoldMyWiiUAndLeftTheForums

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Posted 19 May 2013 - 12:57 PM

That will be awesome, I would litterally find Iwatta and Reggie and offer to pay for a drinking spree to say thank's :D lmao



#40 Nintyfan86

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Posted 19 May 2013 - 03:28 PM

He's trolling.  Regardless, GDDR5 won't make any difference with regard to game visuals.



Nothing you said is correct, just none of it.  "GPU-Centric games" all next gen games will be GPU centric because all next gen systems are GPU centric. 

 

The main memory bandwidth is not understood, and only criticized by sites that are willing to forgo journalistic integrity for hits. When any real analysis or discussion is done, with people who actually develop for the system, there are never any of these criticisms.  No criticism of the GPU, no criticism of the memory architecture, and yes, not even any criticism of the CPU.

 

40nm is not a cheap process, it is just common at the moment.  They are not using "low bandwifth" RAM chips, they are using DDR3, the current general purpose processing memory standard.  Their memory architecture is actually much more robust and efficient than PS4's.

 

Wii U isn't "competitive" with PS3 and 360, it wallops them, The weak point of the WiiU (the CPU) is more powerful than both of the PPE based CPU's with regards to IPC.  The only area where it is weaker is SIMD, which is not necessary on a GPU centric system.  Still, the SIMD on the CPU is enough to get equivalent if not better performance on games that are ported and running on two of the CPU cores (using CPU SIMD still, rather than GPU).  It was revealed recently that all of the ports for the WiiU only had access to two of the CPU cores because the tools were very immature, it still was able to run CPU-centric games.

 

Again you are arguing GLFOPs when they mean so very little.  When will some of you people realize that FLOPS is the new GHz, its the big number that can be used to market chips.  WiiU has fewer FLOPS from fully programmable shaders, yes, but 50% of the GPU logic is not accounted for.  PS4 will be pretty much all unified shaders, no custom logic.  WiiU is not the same, and while it is still a weaker GPU, it is not as weak as you think.

 

For reference, RSX (PS3 GPU) was marketed by Sony as having 1.8TFLOPs.

 

Your arguments are tired, and you apparently refuse to read anything that isn't in agreement with your confirmation bias.  Learn something before responding again with nonsense.

Thank you, Sir. You continue to make fantastic posts that stand as beacons in a sea of confusion. 

 

Everything remains to be seen from Sony and Microsoft. Even then, next gen is going to rock at 1080p and sub 30 fps. Anyone getting consoles for graphics fidelity is fooling themselves. Get a console for exclusive games and new ways of playing. 

 

I have news for everyone, if the PS4 was as powerful as they will claim, it would cost $1500 at a loss, and be very large. Remember the PS3's promises? Routerbad points one out. I remember 2 monitors, 1080p as a standard, 4d, and various other nonsensical claims. Meanwhile, the Wii U has 1 game being showcased on mature development tools at the moment that isn't a remake. 

 

The internets are a lot of fun around console launch times. I have really missed it. 






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