19 replies to this topic

[CaptainFalco311]

http://www.gameinfor... ... at-e3.aspx

BAM! There it is. Game Informer got the scoop this afternoon, and it is true according to "multiple sources". According to Game Informer, Nintendo is trying to appeal to hardcore Western gamers, with quotes like "[It's] not a gimmick like the Wii" and possibly a rebranding with new controls, this keeps getting better and better.

[AMAC]

I don't think of the Wii as a "Gimmick", but I think Nintendo should include a "gimmick" with their new console. Otherwise it wouldn't be any different to the Xbox 360 and Playstation 3. It also wouldn't make economic sense for Nintendo, as they make juge amounts of money from casual gamers who like the motion control of the Wii. Despite this article, I think it's unlikely that we'll see the Wii 2 at this years E3. I expect Nintendo will want to keep the focus on their new 3DS this year and that the Wii 2 will wait until 2012. Still, it's possible that the Wii 2 will be announced in June, and I am feeling a little more excited about E3 after hearing this.

[Waller]

AMAC, the title says it's going to be releasing in 2012, it's just going to be announced on e3 this year.
I don't think that the wii 2 won't have a "gimmick" they probably meant that it wasn't going to be centered completely on a "gimmick."
Can't wait to e3.

[Play4Fun]

Out time is coming Wii 2 members! We have waited months for this! When E3 arrives...we will no longer be boys (and girls if any are here)...we will be men! 8-)

Finally! I believe this rumour 100%! E3 can't come fast enough!

*Shakes with excitement*

Edit: Well..maybe not 100%. That HD screen on the controller screen is mind blowing if true. How does that work?

[Elric]

We will just have to wait until they reveal it at e3. Very exciting

[Wertville]

I have an odd feeling that this upcoming generation may be the last, or second last, generation of (console) video games... At least for a long time.

Especially if the project butterfly rumors had some truth to them. If that's the case then all we'll have is 'sub-generations' for a very long time.

[Jikayaki]

I have an odd feeling that this upcoming generation may be the last, or second last, generation of (console) video games... At least for a long time.

Especially if the project butterfly rumors had some truth to them. If that's the case then all we'll have is 'sub-generations' for a very long time.

The difference in capability next generation compared to the current HD consoles likely isn't going to be as large a jump as we're used to with previous next gen console jumps. Simply put software needs to catch up with hardware otherwise costs in the industry will continue to balloon out of control. Depending on bandwidth limits and internet speeds the generation after this coming generation may be the end of console gaming as we know it. Nintendo 7 for instance may maintain majority of its power from servers something like Onlive. In one way it actually allows for expanded console generations something the overly expensive devices introduced by Microsoft and Sony this generation aren't really capable of doing, but this means you'd be paying a monthly or annual payment for the duration of the console generation. It may even be smart to allow the capability to utilize such a feature in next gen consoles and when or if bandwidth and internet speeds meet the level necessary offer the service. It wouldn't be completely impossible to over it free if costs where gained in some other fashion.

[Mark]

I think it will only be a tiny bit more powerful, but hey, the PS3 is super powerful.

[Jikayaki]

I think it will only be a tiny bit more powerful, but hey, the PS3 is super powerful.

Compared to the technology available the PS3 is extremely weak. Going by rumor and speculation if Nintendo uses a R700 family GPU from 2008 there exists the possibility of a console ranging from about twice as powerful as current consoles to almost exactly 10x times more powerful than current consoles. It would be rather cheap for Nintendo to out do PS3 in a noticeable way its merely a matter of how far Nintendo is willing to push the envelope since they themselves have little interest in continuing the hardware war.

[Play4Fun]

Check out these rumours someone got from their sources. They all sound plausible to me.

. Square Enix, Capcom, Sega, Konami, Activision, Rockstar/Take Two, Electronic Arts, Namco and Ubisoft all have development kits.

.They each have at least one game in development for the Wii 2.

. Expect games to be coming to this system that you would never expect on a Nintendo console.

. Nintendo is kissing third party ****s with this console.

.The new Nintendo controller sounds more ridiculous on paper. When you actually see the thing, it makes a lot more sense from a design standard.

. Expect Nintendo to roll out the red carpet for third parties so their games don’t get overshadowed. Nintendo has been preaching to third parties that third parties won’t get screwed this time around, so if you’re expecting a ton of amazing first party games at launch…well…think again. Nintendo wants a launch that creates confidence in third parties again so expect very few first party games at launch similar to the 3DS.

. Star Fox is coming. I can’t say when. Very good chance that it WONT be at E3. I am hearing Star Fox is coming for the new Nintendo system, but it is very early in development.

. Nintendo solved every storage issue a third party could possibly have with the new console. I don’t know if it’s a harddrive or a different, cheaper way to store data.

. Nintendo revamping their WiiWare and virtual console services. I don’t think it will be called WiiWare anymore.

. Almost positive that we’ll be seeing Pikmin in some shape or form.

. A first person shooter that people love will be ported to the 3DS. I can’t say what game, but it’s popular among FPS gamers.

. Expect a crapload of 3DS love at this E3. The show will be wayyy more 3DS than Wii 2 (Project Cafe). 3DS stuff will be at least 60 percent of the E3 pre-show.

. Don’t listen to anyone who says new Nintendo console will launch by end of 2011. They are idiots. This holiday season is all about the 3DS and Nintendo’s E3 show will focus on that.

. Don’t expect many games to be shown at E3 for new Nintendo console, but expect all of the key features to be revealed.

. Nintendo is thinking about launching Zelda: Skyward Sword around the same time as Wii 2 since Wii 2 is backwards compatible with Wii 1 games. They want to follow the same strategy when they launched Pokemon Black/White when 3DS was coming out.

. I am 90 percent sure you will not see a Zelda: Skyward Sword port to the Wii 2. It will remain a Wii 1 game.

. Nintendo approached Hideo Kojima about the new Nintendo console. Nintendo and Hideo Kojima have a good relationship with each other.

. A Resident Evil game is in development for the new Nintendo system. I don’t know if Capcom is developing an RE spinoff or something part of the “main” Resident Evil series.

. Retrostudios started working on a Wii 2 game. It is NOT Metroid. Retro is done with Metroid.


WebSite

[Feld0]

Thanks for that list, Play4Fun. I featured it over on the blog.

The difference in capability next generation compared to the current HD consoles likely isn't going to be as large a jump as we're used to with previous next gen console jumps. Simply put software needs to catch up with hardware otherwise costs in the industry will continue to balloon out of control. Depending on bandwidth limits and internet speeds the generation after this coming generation may be the end of console gaming as we know it. Nintendo 7 for instance may maintain majority of its power from servers something like Onlive. In one way it actually allows for expanded console generations something the overly expensive devices introduced by Microsoft and Sony this generation aren't really capable of doing, but this means you'd be paying a monthly or annual payment for the duration of the console generation. It may even be smart to allow the capability to utilize such a feature in next gen consoles and when or if bandwidth and internet speeds meet the level necessary offer the service. It wouldn't be completely impossible to over it free if costs where gained in some other fashion.

I agree with most of your points there, Jikayaki. Honestly, I don't think anyone's yet made a game that uses up every ounce of even the PlayStation 3's power yet, so the arms race for the bigger and badder console is probably going to slow down as the console manufacturers begin to focus on providing engaging services and experiences, now that they've made machines so powerful, comparisons between them don't even matter anymore.

Some kind of game streaming tech a la OnLive would be amazing to see implemented by a major player someday, if only because they'd do it better. Actually, Nintendo received a patent some time ago for a technology similar to that, which also allows the developers to directly send game patches and updates to the distribution servers - I remember it was a fascinating read. I can dig it up, if you're interested.

Compared to the technology available the PS3 is extremely weak. Going by rumor and speculation if Nintendo uses a R700 family GPU from 2008 there exists the possibility of a console ranging from about twice as powerful as current consoles to almost exactly 10x times more powerful than current consoles. It would be rather cheap for Nintendo to out do PS3 in a noticeable way its merely a matter of how far Nintendo is willing to push the envelope since they themselves have little interest in continuing the hardware war.

Not that there's really much of an envelope left to push, as you're putting it. I still remember the days when the PlayStation 3 was thought of as a miniature supercomputer, and hearing news stories about them being used in clusters in scientific and military applications. But yeah, 5-year-old technology is 5-year-old technology, and it would probably be more surprising if Nintendo didn't surpass it with the Wii 2.

[Biohazard]

Not that there's really much of an envelope left to push, as you're putting it. I still remember the days when the PlayStation 3 was thought of as a miniature supercomputer, and hearing news stories about them being used in clusters in scientific and military applications. But yeah, 5-year-old technology is 5-year-old technology, and it would probably be more surprising if Nintendo didn't surpass it with the Wii 2.

I think you may be referring to the PlayStation 2 because I remembered watching news reports that the console's chipset was so sophisticated that it could launch a missile. Saddam Hussein, who was alive and in power at the time, was rumored to have bought up 4000 PS2s so that he could bulk up his weapons capabilities and destroy the United States. Everyone was so hysterical about it that a gamer wrote to a PlayStation magazine that he was scared out of his mind at the thought of Saddam having the ability to launch weapons with a PS2 controller. No, I don't think this was an April Fools joke.

[Jikayaki]

Thanks for that list, Play4Fun. I featured it over on the blog.


I agree with most of your points there, Jikayaki. Honestly, I don't think anyone's yet made a game that uses up every ounce of even the PlayStation 3's power yet, so the arms race for the bigger and badder console is probably going to slow down as the console manufacturers begin to focus on providing engaging services and experiences, now that they've made machines so powerful, comparisons between them don't even matter anymore.

Some kind of game streaming tech a la OnLive would be amazing to see implemented by a major player someday, if only because they'd do it better. Actually, Nintendo received a patent some time ago for a technology similar to that, which also allows the developers to directly send game patches and updates to the distribution servers - I remember it was a fascinating read. I can dig it up, if you're interested.

I'd actually would be interested in that patent if you can find it, but that sort of technology isn't ready yet. It would be a waste to invest in an OnLive like system next gen console since the necessary bandwidth and internet speeds for mass market appeal isn't really there yet even in most first world countries. Currently the latest graphically impressive games on the Xbox 360 and PS3 utilize about 80% to 90% percent of the total power of these machines. Its actually rather unusual to reach this level of capability in closed hardware simply because usually we'd would of already seen a console refresh.

Not that there's really much of an envelope left to push, as you're putting it. I still remember the days when the PlayStation 3 was thought of as a miniature supercomputer, and hearing news stories about them being used in clusters in scientific and military applications. But yeah, 5-year-old technology is 5-year-old technology, and it would probably be more surprising if Nintendo didn't surpass it with the Wii 2.

It would be almost impossible not to surpass the PS3 to some extent using more modern architecture. GPU's exist that would have what I'd consider in the ballpark of next gen capabilities over current consoles, but I do have one worry with next gen consoles though and in a way that explains why Microsoft and Sony are banking on 3D tvs. Going by 01Net's R700 class CPU speculation as an example the most realist mid end GPU of that family of GPU's that may not be that difficult to optimize for consoles is Radeon HD 4850, which would roughly be a little more than four times as powerful as Xbox 360's own GPU. This GPU would allow likely at native 720p lighting and physics effects on GPU side increased by four times over the Xbox 360. If you understand the little details behind the capabilities existent in current games that is an impressive increase in its own right since most games can't run on a descent FPS on 720p on current consoles with only 1/4 the effects, but the average consumer won't be capable of noticing the difference. The image will be clearer with more detail and four times more realistic physics and lighting, but the average consumer already has trouble understanding the difference between 30FPS from 60FPS, 720p from 1080p, and even sub-HD from real HD. There isn't going to be that clear cut difference between generations we're used to regardless of how much more power these machines have within a realistic range.

The most power I expect in Nintendo's next console ranges from about six times as powerful as the Xbox 360 to eight times as powerful. According to a leak from AMD picked up by Neogaf its Trinity APU is going to be in an next generation console to release in 2012, which currently if true could be the Wii 2 making the console about 6 times as powerful as Xbox 360 if its using a Radeon HD 5770 equivalent GPU. Like the situation above, this would carry over to all consoles not just Wii 2, it would no longer be possible to truly bank on the possibility that the average gamer would be able to notice a considerable difference between the new hardware and its games and the current HD consoles. In this case the console would easily be capable of native 1080p with again a large boost in physics, lighting, and A.I., but a clear cut visual difference isn't guarantied. A format beyond 1080p being made into production would go a long way to creating a visual difference that the average gamer could see, but Nintendo wouldn't bank on technology only now entering the market anyway, much less something not yet available. Sony and Microsoft are banking on 3D to be the visual distinguisher between current gen consoles and next gen. Nintendo seems to be banking on content instead regardless of how powerful their next console is going to be. Still this is something to think about Sony and Microsoft may not push too far beyond Nintendo simply because it wouldn't be beneficial.

EDIT: To explain simply the complexity of games will increase greatly next gen, but visually the improvements will be more subtle than we'd usually expect from a generational jump. From diminishing returns and simply available resolutions along with some other factors it won't be as spectacular as previous jumps because of technology limitations. So as I meant in a previous post I don't expect as large of a jump as seen in this generation by the two HD consoles over the previous generation in this coming generation simply because it wouldn't be useful. NOTE I'm only talking about how visually impressive the graphics would appear to the average consumer. Viewing distances, A.I, physics, lighting, and the general possible size of game worlds would increase noticeable in any game actually utilizing the hardware's capabilities, but overall there wouldn't be an overly noticeable increase in graphics visually.

[Feld0]

Found it. Here's that patent.


Wait...AMD is shipping a ton of Trinity processors next year? That's news to me. When did that get get leaked out?

Nintendo seems to be banking on content instead regardless of how powerful their next console is going to be. Still this is something to think about Sony and Microsoft may not push too far beyond Nintendo simply because it wouldn't be beneficial.

Nintendo has always been about creating awesome content first, then making a console worthy of it, so to speak. Really, as you explained over your entire post, and as I said in my last one, there won't be any spectacular differences between the competing consoles because we're rapidly approaching the physical limitations of our current hardware (e.g.: I don't think 4k TV's really exist yet; even 3D ones are still brand new). I see the next generation of consoles as one in which hardware power will play a much smaller role than it did before, and the focus will be on creating incredible, memorable gaming experiences instead - and Nintendo is better known for that than any other company out there.

[Jikayaki]

Found it. Here's that patent.


Wait...AMD is shipping a ton of Trinity processors next year? That's news to me. When did that get get leaked out?

A leak from AMD apparently some time last year are so stated that Trinity APU would be in a next generation console launching in 2012. There is a thread on Neogaf where the idea of a Trinity APU powered Wii 2 originated from to my knowledge. I've seen several forums predicting that Trinity APU which should be in production in 2012 could power the next Nintendo console since the leak mentioned AMD designing the CPU for a next generation console to launch in 2012 and a few put two and two together. I haven't yet confirmed the existence of this leak, but I first heard of it at Neogaf, which I take as a rather reliable source. I still think Nintendo would go with PowerPC or at least Power derived CPU, but something interesting brought up on Neogaf's is it isn't impossible to include PowerPC cores in the APU. The sealing point of Nintendo possibly utilizing a Trinity APU derived processor to me is it would cast less than twice what their CPU and GPU did last generation only at about $80 at mass product levels. Depending on the price point of the console Nintendo could easily up Trinity's GPU a little an throw in two small PowerPC cores and make profit from the beginning with a sizable upgrade in power over current consoles.

Nintendo has always been about creating awesome content first, then making a console worthy of it, so to speak. Really, as you explained over your entire post, and as I said in my last one, there won't be any spectacular differences between the competing consoles because we're rapidly approaching the physical limitations of our current hardware (e.g.: I don't think 4k TV's really exist yet; even 3D ones are still brand new). I see the next generation of consoles as one in which hardware power will play a much smaller role than it did before, and the focus will be on creating incredible, memorable gaming experiences instead - and Nintendo is better known for that than any other company out there.

I'd agree Nintendo is very successful in creating memorable franchises that hold a lot of weight for the fanbases they attract. I don't think Nintendo can compete next generation without third party developers, but Nintendo seems to be handling that rather well. Resolutions beyond 1080p do exist, but primarily on Monitors not HDTVs. A higher resolution on HDTVs is unlikely to appear for quite sometime.

[Play4Fun]

Great posts Jikayaki!

I've been reading the GAF rumour thread all week and it started out as a good thread for info but has gone to the pits of hell with people thinking Ninty will ditch motion controls and go back to 'normal' controls for the 'hardcore' gamers.

I'm pretty sure the 'going hardcore' rumours just mean Nintendo is trying to get better third party support along with their first party offerings, not that they are going to become more like Sony and MS.

I don't think motion controls will be dropped at all. I'm just waiting to see what that dual analog rumour meant.

I don't think Nintendo can compete next generation without third party developers, but Nintendo seems to be handling that rather well.

i agree with this, games are only going to take longer to make with the hardware they will be dropping. Unless they want their gamers to suffer droughts all through the generation, they will have to make sure they are getting third party ports to fill in the blank spaces.

I'm expecting them to do a little expanding of their studios, maybe buy up some new ones, but I still think they will need better third party support.

[Jikayaki]

Great posts Jikayaki!

I've been reading the GAF rumour thread all week and it started out as a good thread for info but has gone to the pits of hell with people thinking Ninty will ditch motion controls and go back to 'normal' controls for the 'hardcore' gamers.

I'm pretty sure the 'going hardcore' rumours just mean Nintendo is trying to get better third party support along with their first party offerings, not that they are going to become more like Sony and MS.

I don't think motion controls will be dropped at all. I'm just waiting to see what that dual analog rumour meant.

Nintendo going "hardcore" doesn't surprise me for the most part I expected a strategy from Nintendo much like the 3DS in their next console. Nintendo wants to be the PS2 of next generation and cash in on both hardcore and casual gamers. Motion controls I don't think have been dropped some rumors from Edge point to it carrying over to this new console. I believe Nintendo is going to make two primary controllers for the console this Gameboy thing and an improved Wii remote. For the rumored touchscreen Gameboy-like controller to work its going to have to either upgrade to Bluetooth 3.0 or utilize a cheaper alternative. Pair a modified Wii remote + with Bluetooth 3.0 and a better camera and realistically it should be a sizable upgrade over the Wii's motion control. I doubt an upgraded Wii remote + would cost much to manufacture more than likely something like $18 including a nunchuk depending on the camera they use to replace the one in the Wii remote.

i agree with this, games are only going to take longer to make with the hardware they will be dropping. Unless they want their gamers to suffer droughts all through the generation, they will have to make sure they are getting third party ports to fill in the blank spaces.

I'm expecting them to do a little expanding of their studios, maybe buy up some new ones, but I still think they will need better third party support.

To my knowledge several studios including Retro are expanding. Nintendo is creating a new R&D studio as well and at Nintendo often these studios are used for making games not merely software and hardware R&D.

[Play4Fun]

More IGN rumours:

According to sources with knowledge of the project, Nintendo's next console could have a retail price of anywhere between $350 and $400 based on manufacturing costs, and will ship from Taiwanese manufacturer, Foxconn, this October, putting the earliest possible retail release anywhere between mid-October and early November.

However, Nintendo could also opt to build up a sizable supply of the system and allocate more time for software and games development by launching in early 2012. Similarly, Nintendo could attempt to lower the retail price of the system with lower profit margins to make the price more alluring.

Additionally, IGN has learned that the system will be based on a revamped version of AMD's R700 GPU architecture, not AMD's Fusion technology as previously believed, which will, as previously reported, out perform the PlayStation 3's NVIDIA 7800GTX-based processor. Like the Xbox 360, the system's CPU will be a custom-built triple-core IBM PowerPC chipset, but the clocking speeds will be faster. The system will support 1080p output with the potential for stereoscopic 3D as well, though it has not been determined whether that will be a staple feature.

n terms of the design of the console itself, the overall size will be comparable to that of the original Xbox 360 and the system is likely to resemble a modernized version of the Super Nintendo Entertainment System (SNES).

Finally, Nintendo is considering naming the console Stream, though it is potentially one of several names currently being vetted by the company.

IGN

These rumours are driving me crazy. Now they say it's coming out later this year...
I know GBA and GC released the same year, but will Nintendo really do this?

Edited by Play4Fun, 21 April 2011 - 12:43 PM.

[Jikayaki]

More IGN rumours:


IGN

These rumours are driving me crazy. Now they say it's coming out later this year...
I know GBA and GC released the same year, but will Nintendo really do this?

Seems 01Nets speculation had something behind it. Going by these specs depending on what IBM processor the custom core is based on and what R700 series GPU its graphics processor is based on we're looking at a very sizable increase in power. There are four realistic choices Radeon HD 4850, Radeon HD 4860, Radeon HD 4870, and Radeon HD 4890. Radeon HD 4860 is a little too inefficient at merely 3.5-3.8 times as powerful as Xbox 360's GPU with higher TDP than Radeon HD 4850, which itself is slightly more than 4 times as powerful as Xenos. I honestly hope they use a GPU derived from Radeon HD 4870 or HD 4890 which would result in about 5 times as powerful with 4870 and almost 6 times as powerful with 4890. A TDP below 150 watts doesn't seem a priority going by the rumored size, so who knows it could utilize a rather hot CPU or even a dual GPU depending on costs.

[tandeh]

Well as the leaked images say its easy to port from PC/Xbox, it will either be an AMD chip or power PC, AMD with discrete chip would make more sense as Nintendo could place a massive order ala Apple and get huge discounts, all from just one company and would need to custom design from IBM.  one negative could be it would be easy to emulate on powerful PC rigs.