38 replies to this topic

[NintendoReport]

The trouble is they had the game on display, in fact one of their kids was playing the system, and wanted a Wii U game, it was the parents (who ultimately are going to buy the console)  who didn't get the concept of a Wii U as a new system, and didn't want to buy one game for a £320 console. The sales assistant didn't even bother trying to sell the console either.

 

Gotcha, well the sales associate ultimately has to move the merchandise. Sounds like that person needs to find a new job. I honestly think PS4 and Xbox 1 will run into similar trouble, especially with last gen consoles still selling big in stores. It's going to take a year or two for each new console to really saturate itself in the market and get it's proper place in stores.

 

Small stores like Gamestop will need to balance all of this, with displays, new consoles, and still new games coming to the last gen systems.

 

• Parents hear play station, not play station four. They go mute to that, not on purpose just the way some are.
• Parents hear Xbox, not Xbox 1. Same reason as above.
• Parents hear Wii, not Wii U. Same reason as above.

[DéliopT]

They did come unprepared with Wii U just to make sure it was out for Christmas. They paid a high price because of that.

Still, now that the console is out, i hope that they can learn from their mistakes and take actions so that there isn`t another drought like this one and really think through their next console launch.

[Goodtwin]

What has he promised that hasn't happened?

He doesn't answer, ultimately, to you, or any other consumer.  He answers to the board of directors, and you can rest assured that he is providing them with what he plans to do, even if we have to wait as the plan unfolds.

 

He does answer to the board of directors, and the consumer buying the product is what the board of directors use to evaluate Mr. Iwata's performance.  Nintendo's earnings for the past few years have been historic lows for Nintendo, they wont sit idle forever waiting for Iwata's master plan to come together.  The consumer ultimately dictates the success of any company, so in an indirect way, he actually does have to care what the consumer thinks.  I already own a Wii U with over 10 games, so he doesnt need to convince me that the Wii U is a good product, but the mass market just doesnt see it yet.  He has to come up with a way to convince the mass audience that the Wii U is a product worth purchasing.  Thats why I think its somewhat irrelevant what Sony and Microsoft are doing, the Wii U and PS4 are far from being interchangable products.  They offer very different products and software offerings, so just because you own a PS4 doesnt mean that the Wii U doesnt appeal to you, the software offering on the Wii U could easily justify the purchase of another console, especially as the price of hardware comes down. 

[routerbad]

He does answer to the board of directors, and the consumer buying the product is what the board of directors use to evaluate Mr. Iwata's performance.  Nintendo's earnings for the past few years have been historic lows for Nintendo, they wont sit idle forever waiting for Iwata's master plan to come together.  The consumer ultimately dictates the success of any company, so in an indirect way, he actually does have to care what the consumer thinks.  I already own a Wii U with over 10 games, so he doesnt need to convince me that the Wii U is a good product, but the mass market just doesnt see it yet.  He has to come up with a way to convince the mass audience that the Wii U is a product worth purchasing.  Thats why I think its somewhat irrelevant what Sony and Microsoft are doing, the Wii U and PS4 are far from being interchangable products.  They offer very different products and software offerings, so just because you own a PS4 doesnt mean that the Wii U doesnt appeal to you, the software offering on the Wii U could easily justify the purchase of another console, especially as the price of hardware comes down. 

Correct, but he doesn't detail his plans to the public, he details his plans to the board.  Ultimately people buying the product is what is going to save his job, but what he intends to do, every minute detail, is definitely going to be spelled out to them though we have to wait and let it happen.

[Socalmuscle]

I like Iwata.

 

He is genuinely a nice guy in an era of cut-throat CEOs.

 

He is also humble.

 

He did this same thing with the 3DS and took a personal pay but to make sure the investors had some blood to satisfy them.

 

That was followed by a price drop and free games to early adopters, which cause customers to buy the thing.

 

 

 

However...

 

 

Enough talk. This conversation has been going on for 6 months.

 

And why did they "relax" marketing efforts? That's a bad move.  Not only bad, but foolish.

 

A brand new, unique system to start a new generation of gaming... and you only market at E3 and have a couple sporadic commercials.

 

You spend crazy money in R&D, engineer an impossible system and make it possible, and don't market it???!!!???

 

 

 

Marketing the Wii U's power isn't a bad idea either. No, it doesn't have the specs of the PS4, but it has grunt. Market that.  Don't concede to the other guys, then really build up the gamepad - with actual games that prove it was a good move.  Zombi U did that.  But it's one game.  Batman AC did that. but it was an old game. so not seen as something new.

 

How about you get with Ubisoft to make sure Watch Dogs proves it.

 

Then get to making great commercials.  Don't let these third parties dump on you.  Contract with them.  Offer minimum guarantees, whatever you have to do.  make it happen.

 

Then, once you have traction, you don't have to risk such things.

 

But sheesh! You have world class competition trying to end you.

 

The Wii U is a great console.  It's powerful, it is built well, it has a very awesome GamePad included.  It simply needs software and marketing.

 

I wish Nintendo would make a round of purchases to buy up some third parties and have a Rare type situation again.  It would really do them good right now.

 

As it is, we are waiting a looooooooooong time not only for games, but for games that actually belong on Wii U.

 

Yes they look light years ahead of 360/ps3 games, but it's taking so long that no one will care.

 

Being first out of the gate doesn't matter when you forgot to tie your track shoes.

 

Iwata more and more simply seems like he was unprepared for a new console launch.

 

I said in the past that nintendo is moving uncharacteristically fast these days to try to keep up with sony and MS and even surpass them in some ways, but they have been doing so with the same people that are used to a different pace.  they don't need to get rid of those people.  They need those people.  but a restructuring may be in order along with some new staff that can manage multiple projects at once.

[Lightning_Ninja]

The main thing is that they need to advertise.  I don't watch much TV, but even when I do I haven't seen a commercial for the Wii U since last Christmas.  The Wii and DS printed money, and the 3DS is starting to rake in the cash, they have to have money to burn on advertising now.  They have at least a few exclusive games they can advertise right now.  The first three that come to mind would be Mario Bros U, Lego City, and Monster Hunter.  Get people interested.  I'm sure things will pick up when Smash gets released, but that could be late next year for all we know.

 

It feels like they could stand to higher more people.  I don't think they fully grasped how much more time it would take to make quality games of the size they have to make.  If they can't rely on 3rd parties they have to move games from multiple series more quickly.  That's probably part of the reason they are doing these co-developed games like Sonic Lost World and Shin Megami TenseiXFire Emblem.

 

Worst comes to worst the Wii U turns out like the Gamecube.  I'm okay with that but they need to have the games coming without long droughts.

[SoldMyWiiUAndLeftTheForums]

What has he promised that hasn't happened?

He doesn't answer, ultimately, to you, or any other consumer.  He answers to the board of directors, and you can rest assured that he is providing them with what he plans to do, even if we have to wait as the plan unfolds.

 

 He keeps promising third party support THAT NEVER HAPPENS, EVER!!!!

[Goodtwin]

 He keeps promising third party support THAT NEVER HAPPENS, EVER!!!!

 

They do have third party support, but what you consider to be great third party support and what Nintendo considers to be great third party support are probably two very different things.  Nintendo looks at the lineup and see's Bayonetta 2, Wonderful 101, Rayman Legends, Watch Dogs, Splinter Cell, Sonic Lost Worlds, Deus Ex, Assassins Creed, Batman, ect. and thinks that looks good.  When you really look at the lineup, it actually is very good, but we tend to focus on what the Wii U isnt getting, even if you werent all that interested in those titles.  We arent getting Battlefield, its the end of the world right?  The problem exist that the small minority of gamers who would have bought those games on Wii U dont really represent the real audience on the platform.  As vocal as people on interest forums can be, there is no denying that the new Sonic Lost Worlds game would likely outsell a game like Battlefield on Wii U by a very large margin.  This just isnt the case on other platforms.  Publishers are trying to offer games on the appropriate platforms where the sales incentives are the highest. 

[routerbad]

They do have third party support, but what you consider to be great third party support and what Nintendo considers to be great third party support are probably two very different things.  Nintendo looks at the lineup and see's Bayonetta 2, Wonderful 101, Rayman Legends, Watch Dogs, Splinter Cell, Sonic Lost Worlds, Deus Ex, Assassins Creed, Batman, ect. and thinks that looks good.  When you really look at the lineup, it actually is very good, but we tend to focus on what the Wii U isnt getting, even if you werent all that interested in those titles.  We arent getting Battlefield, its the end of the world right?  The problem exist that the small minority of gamers who would have bought those games on Wii U dont really represent the real audience on the platform.  As vocal as people on interest forums can be, there is no denying that the new Sonic Lost Worlds game would likely outsell a game like Battlefield on Wii U by a very large margin.  This just isnt the case on other platforms.  Publishers are trying to offer games on the appropriate platforms where the sales incentives are the highest. 

Well said, and actually the weak point of the Wii U launch was that there were TOO MANY 3rd party titles and not enough first party to spur sales for people who want Nintendo titles first and foremost.

[Nintyfan86]

I like Iwata.
 
He is genuinely a nice guy in an era of cut-throat CEOs.
 
He is also humble.
 
He did this same thing with the 3DS and took a personal pay but to make sure the investors had some blood to satisfy them.
 
That was followed by a price drop and free games to early adopters, which cause customers to buy the thing.
 
 
 
However...
 
 
Enough talk. This conversation has been going on for 6 months.
 
And why did they "relax" marketing efforts? That's a bad move.  Not only bad, but foolish.
 
A brand new, unique system to start a new generation of gaming... and you only market at E3 and have a couple sporadic commercials.
 
You spend crazy money in R&D, engineer an impossible system and make it possible, and don't market it???!!!???
 
 
 
Marketing the Wii U's power isn't a bad idea either. No, it doesn't have the specs of the PS4, but it has grunt. Market that.  Don't concede to the other guys, then really build up the gamepad - with actual games that prove it was a good move.  Zombi U did that.  But it's one game.  Batman AC did that. but it was an old game. so not seen as something new.
 
How about you get with Ubisoft to make sure Watch Dogs proves it.
 
Then get to making great commercials.  Don't let these third parties dump on you.  Contract with them.  Offer minimum guarantees, whatever you have to do.  make it happen.
 
Then, once you have traction, you don't have to risk such things.
 
But sheesh! You have world class competition trying to end you.
 
The Wii U is a great console.  It's powerful, it is built well, it has a very awesome GamePad included.  It simply needs software and marketing.
 
I wish Nintendo would make a round of purchases to buy up some third parties and have a Rare type situation again.  It would really do them good right now.
 
As it is, we are waiting a looooooooooong time not only for games, but for games that actually belong on Wii U.
 
Yes they look light years ahead of 360/ps3 games, but it's taking so long that no one will care.
 
Being first out of the gate doesn't matter when you forgot to tie your track shoes.
 
Iwata more and more simply seems like he was unprepared for a new console launch.
 
I said in the past that nintendo is moving uncharacteristically fast these days to try to keep up with sony and MS and even surpass them in some ways, but they have been doing so with the same people that are used to a different pace.  they don't need to get rid of those people.  They need those people.  but a restructuring may be in order along with some new staff that can manage multiple projects at once.

I agree with you, but want to point something out.

Relaxed marketing efforts make sense given the launch issues (the huge update), sub
par ports, and following drought. Marketing it full force, if successful, would have had multiplied the number of people upset with the drought (if successful).

Or, the marketing effort leads to consumer research, and blowback from the factors listed above. I expect a marketing blitzkrieg this holiday season, and more or less a relaunch.

I also highly doubt they played their hand fully at E3.

[grahamf]

What's this about free stuff for early adopters?

[Socalmuscle]

I agree with you, but want to point something out.
Relaxed marketing efforts make sense given the launch issues (the huge update), sub
par ports, and following drought. Marketing it full force, if successful, would have had multiplied the number of people upset with the drought (if successful).
Or, the marketing effort leads to consumer research, and blowback from the factors listed above. I expect a marketing blitzkrieg this holiday season, and more or less a relaunch.
I also highly doubt they played their hand fully at E3.

No they didn't fully show everything.

There are other games in too early of development to show. Ie:yarn yoshi.

But Iwata realizes the mistake it was to relax marketing. They could have marketed what they had. But they didn't.

Of course this all underscores the importance of games. Some games market your system for you. Nintendo was marketing tech demos for a while.

Thy badly need a real marketing director that is given respect from Iwata and others. Someone they'll listen to. The current problem with Nintendo leadership is that they think they know best. Even when they don't have a clue.

Hoping that changes. Like this week.

[Nintyfan86]

No they didn't fully show everything.
There are other games in too early of development to show. Ie:yarn yoshi.
But Iwata realizes the mistake it was to relax marketing. They could have marketed what they had. But they didn't.
Of course this all underscores the importance of games. Some games market your system for you. Nintendo was marketing tech demos for a while.
Thy badly need a real marketing director that is given respect from Iwata and others. Someone they'll listen to. The current problem with Nintendo leadership is that they think they know best. Even when they don't have a clue.
Hoping that changes. Like this week.

I agree. The huge disconnect has always been to satisfy Japan, and then worry about other territories. Nintendo has such a recognition lag for NOA and NOE issues because of this.

Part of me wonders if Iwata being the CEO of NOA is not the best possible move they could have made, as this will reduce the recognition lag somewhat if he can see the issues in the territory quickly.

However, if you market future products, like Yarn Yoshi, you have a resource spent showing the consumer something months out. Instead, all they really had was Monster Hunter, Lego City, and Need for Speed in the first half of the year. Only one of those showed why you needed a Wii U.

My point, I guess, is that, for what good marketing would have done, it could have had an equally negative effect for new customers in the Q1. They still do not want ads with the E3 stuff until you can go buy it.

However, they should have marketed the holy heck out of it and the third party titles available now. This I do agree with. Again though, I wonder if the done outweigh the pros.

[MorbidGod]

Nintendo had two years to do SOMETHING with Wii U yet all they did was twiddle their thumbs, talk rainbow and screw up. They can't fix this, they have nothing of mainstream appeal on the horizon, they are creatively bankrupt in their own forthcoming IPs and even Xbox One's smartglass shown Wii U up at E3.

As a gamer for a long time it seems Nintendo's been out of touch this past decade in their bid for non gamers.

Two years? Wii U hasn't even been out for a year.

[ganados0]

Two years? Wii U hasn't even been out for a year.

I meant from 2011's E3 presentation to now.

Edited by ganados0, 22 June 2013 - 08:23 AM.

[MorbidGod]

I meant from 2011's E3 presentation to now.

Still not entirely fair. They had good third party support. The major problem was that Nintendo didn't have good enough exclusives to make people buy Wii U. And delays, which they should have known buy unfortunately didn't.

[Alex Wolfers]

Iwatta, keeps making the same bloody mistakes over and over again and I'm sick of bieng promised by him things that don't happen, fire him, nuff said.

Iwata is even more out of touch than Miyamoto and he is about 10 years younger! We need someone young and hip.

[Desert Punk]

At this point we don't know if the wii u will have a recovery like 3DS or end up doing gamecube numbers (or possibly less).

 

I would say the main selling points of the wii u are;

 

1. Its a direct upgrade for the wii offering compatibility with wii games with upgraded hdmi output. The only next gen console with backwards compatibility.

 

2. Like wii its the ideal casual console.

 

3. All the extra gameplay offered by the gamepad

 

4. Offers a range of family friendly games and ideal for younger players

 

5.  Has the ability to easily undercut ps4 and xbox one on price and still be profitable.

 

6. Probably most importantly the only console with Nintendo games.

 

 

I don't think the wii u should attempt to sell itself as a hardcore games console. Yes I'm sure it will have a few such titles but its just not what the wii u is about. Many of those games already made for wii u have sold abysmally and its clear that the majority of the wii u crowd are really looking for Nintendo games or Nintendo like games. Also most of those games have underperformed on the wii u hardware and its just not realistic to sell the wii u on that basis. People who want a hardcore console capable of major multiformat titles will be looking to buy a ps4 or xbox one. If Nintendo really wanted to sell the wii u on that basis they should not have settled on the specification they gave it.

 

I'm personally not worried about the wii u's future because ultimately if the wii u fails to sell it means Nintendo will be forced into working harder and selllng games for less to compete. As consumers we really shouldn't be too bothered. I'm sure Nintendo will support the wii u for a minimum of the next 3 years and produce many fantastic games. That's all I really care about.

 

If Nintendo are forced to sell the wii u at a larger loss so be it. Ideally we want Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft all fighting hard for market share offering consumers fantastic deals on their consoles and games.

 

I think with the wii u they took their audience for granted. They priced the wii u too high with too low a spec and the first batch of games generally underperformed compared to 360 and PS3. Clearly that was going to be highly negative to gamer's perception of the console. Everyone would have expected wii u versions of games to be enhanced not weaker than current gen even the first batch of wii u games.

 

Slightly off topic but one thing that annoys me is Nintendo are clearly releasing stock to retailers at much reduced prices but they aren't making this reduction official. So there is no loyalty/ambassador program for existing wii u users who paid more for their console because officially there is no price cut. I'm sure by christmas there will be a price cut but then the time period would have been reasonable and therefore wouldn't merit an ambassador program.

 

I saw this (it won't last long so apologies when it becomes a dead link);

 

http://www.cashgener...le-32-gb-h31001

 

How cheap can the wii u go? £154 plus postage for a wii u 32GB

[Alianjaro]

Dunno, just keep alive IPs and we should be ok. I mean, DKC and that Mario game weren't the best announcements ever made. Lack of StarFox, lack of F-Zero, lack of new IPs. I love Nintendo, I love Iwata, but we need things to get going.