29 replies to this topic

[RETROBLAST]

I believe it is all too easy for people owning other systems to put down the Wii U ... many of these people probably have not played a Super Mario Game in a long time, and perhaps some may have never played a Mario game at all - if this is the case, they have no idea what they are missing.

 

There are huge debates as to wheather or not the Wii U is next generation, however, when a company comes out with a new video game system, it is next generation, no matter what ... it is that companies next generation machine.

 

Owning a Nintento Wii U, Nintendo 3DS XL, PS3, and a PS Vita, I can say that it is not the raw processing power of the system that counts, its the games.  But what makes a game for me is the GAME PLAY.  There are games on the PS Vita and PS3 that visually look more realistic than anything I have seen on the Wii U or 3DS and yet they are not great games because of their Game Play.

 

The PS Vita offered the chance of having console like 1st / 3rd Person Shooters in the Palm of your hands and to this date, in my opinion, all of them were horrible because of their Game Play combined with weak stories as well.  I'm talking about Resistance Burning Skies, Unit 13, and Uncharted ... all major disappointments in my book.  Perhaps the new Killzone game for the Vita may change my mind although I fear it will not have a single player campaign ... which is what I really want, instead it will be short missions to earn money ... time will tell.  To date and very unexpectedly, my favorite game on the Vita is Hustle Kings, and I am not even a Pool Fan in real life ... it is not visually stunning but the game play is great.

 

When it comes to 1st / 3rd person shooters, the PS3 satisfies me with Resistance Fall of Man, Resistance 2 & 3, Uncharted 1, 2, & 3, and KIllzone 1, 2, & 3, Gatling Gears, Lara Croft Guardian of Light, and Warhammer.  But when it comes to platformers, none are all that entertaining or satisfying to me, they are merely passable.  

 

Now when it comes to PLATFORMERS, the Wii U and 3DS beat anything on the PS3 or PS Vita.  Mario games are awesome on both the Wii U and the 3DS ....  What Nintendo does right on its home console, it also does right on its hand held and that can not be said of Sony at the moment.

 

When people talk about HARD CORE GAMING, I guess they are thinking of games with sex, blood, violence, and cursing.  But to be honest with you, being a gamer since the days of Pong, Space Invaders, Asteroids, Defender, Gradius, and breakout, I may have a different view of Hard Core Gaming.  

 

To me, it is the Hard Core Gaming I find in Nintendo games that keeps me coming back.  To me a Hard Core Gamer is one that loves to game a lot and does not consider themselves a casual gamer and they also like a challenge as well, in a game that has good game play.  

 

To me Super Mario and Zelda Games are Hard Core games but Nintendo has also made these games casual at the same time, hence their broad appeal ... You can dash through a Mario or Zelda game if you like, but the hard core gamer will try to find all the hidden items and exits - therefore it satisfies both types of gamers.

 

In addition, its the game play that really draws me into Nintendo games ... miss a jump by a hair in a Mario Game and you are dead!  Now that is hard core in a world where too many video games will practically make that jump for you or compensate for you missing and make it appear you made that jump.  Almost pop a turtle on the head in a Mario Game is not good enough, you will take damage or die if you do not execute the move correctly.  This leads to another point ... NIntendo really focuses on control in a video game ... the controls are spot on, not wishy washy ... So in my eyes at the very core, Nintendo Games are Hard Core.

 

So in my eyes, it is not the specs of the machine that make the game, its the game that makes the system.  Sony has had a bunch of platformers but even to this day , none of them compare the platforming action found in the 8 bit Super Mario Brothers NES TITLE.  

 

If NIntendo really wanted to, they could make one of the most enjoyable and entertaining 1st or 3rd person shooters without any blood, without any cursing, without any sex ... it would have to rely on great game play and an interesting story.  

 

Would you play a Super Mario 1st Person Shooter if he was shooting turtle shells instead of bullets?  If the characters made funny and interesting antics when they were shot instead of blood flowing from their bodies, if in the end princes peach only kissed you and you never saw her naked?  I would jump at the chance to play a Mario 1st Person shooter if the game play was on target and the story was good or funny.

 

I believe the Wii Us power lies in MEGA HIT Video Games with great Game Play and not TeraFlops because I have seen some real beautiful looking games on other systems and when it comes to actual game play, they are Magna Flops to me.

Edited by RETROBLAST, 14 July 2013 - 03:17 PM.

[Chrop]

To me, a hardcore gamer is a gamer who plays a Wide range of games and 100% them all. I'm sick and tired of hearing people say they are a hardcore gamer when the only thing they own is a PS3 with Cod and Fifa titles... (or Madden if you live in the US).

 

With the Mario titles, you make it sound like it's a difficult game, yes if you miss a jump you die, but then you restart at the nearest checkpoint and don't do the same mistake twice, and that mistake you made wouldn't have even been a hard one, yes I know it's for casuals so the difficulty had to be easy so :s

 

Play Little Big Planet on the PS3, that's a really good platformer on the PS3. 

 

Also to ALLLLL Of those people who say the Wii U isn't next gen, 1. It was released with the other 8th gen consoles so it is. 2. Monoloth Soft X, 3. So what if it's not as powerful... The first party games will never live up to the first party games of the other consoles.

[RETROBLAST]

I say that Mario games are hard core because they are unfofgiving with regard to game play mechanics, they are casual however in that they are forgiving in the sense that you get many 1ups and you do not have to find all the secrets or shoot for a high score ... you can breeze through them too.

the reason I do not like Little Big Planet is because the character moves too slow and the controls are sloppy, interesting ideas but not exciting for me,

Edited by RETROBLAST, 14 July 2013 - 03:57 PM.

[Desert Punk]

No question its games that sell consoles but I also think with the original wii it had created a sort of desirable brand image a bit like Apple products that helped sell wii as a cool desirable gadget. The wii u hasn't managed to obtain that sort of appeal.

 

Once the ps4 and xbox one are launched we will have a bit more information about how its all going. It's quite possible that once the early adopters have bought their console they will suffer a similar fate to wii u. There are so many avenues for playing games nowdays.

 

We may find that there is more resistance to moving to the next gen than realised and the 360 and PS3 remain the major platforms for a few more years. No company has really pushed the envelope technology wise when it comes to next gen so maybe that will cause a delay in people upgrading. The wii is just about outselling the wii u currently  and there is an install base of 100 million. Maybe Nintendo need to rethink their strategy and continue producing games for the wii rather than abandon it. Maybe they should be jointly developing wii and wii u games just like sony is developing ps3 and ps4 games or Microsoft is developing 360 and xbox one games.

[RETROBLAST]

With its Wiimote control, the Wii was so radically different than anything before it ... anyone could pick it up and play Wii sports ... young and old. That novelty is gone and will not come back until virtual reality visors are introduced. I love the pad, in my opinion, the best gaming control pad ever, but it will never have the same effect as the Wiimote. For now, its the hard core diehard gamers getting the Wii U, not the casual players, they are sticking with the Wii.

[alan123]

yes gameplay is more important than graphics, it always has been & always will be, however it is hard to have any gameplay where there are no games on the WiiU to play, thats the problem.

[RETROBLAST]

I honestly have to say that since the Nintendo 64, when I buy a Nintendo system, I don't even expect a lot of third party support. I expect to get about 3 or 4 Mario games,1 or two Zelda games an 3 or 4 miscellaneous titles out of a system during the course of its life.

These are my expectations for the Wii U as well so I am not in shock.

Interestingly enough, the next generation consoles from PlayStation and Microsoft are on longer life cycles than the Wii U ... Sony says 10 years and Microsoft is probably the same. If the Wii U is on a 5 year cycle, this could give Nintendo the advantage of making a system more powerful then the Xbox 1 or PS4 in 5 years or so. However, in that case they would have to charge the consumer the same price as the other systems are and they would lose the "cheaper system" advantage. But it may be the way to go if the Wii U, "the cheaper system" of this generation, fails. but I think they would do that only if the Wii U is considered a complete failure and I believe they would do it to satisfy 3rd parties and consumers, but not themselves ...

What is more important is that they make a system that is more user friendly to Devs and that Nintendo as a company is more user friendly to Devs as well.

But what is the most important to me is that they keep making quality games with great game play.

[Socalmuscle]

The title of this thread actually applies to ANY console.

 

The Wii U has great hardware performance and great games on the way.

 

When the games arrive, people will see - not only is the Wii U a good, powerful console, comparing favorably with its higher spec'd competition, it has the fun games as well.

 

Once third parties realize that the adjustments they need to make in coding for the Wii U aren't expensive, they can get on the bandwagon.

 

Basically, hype for the Wii U was good right up to launch, but very few games and the majority being ports dwindled that hype.

 

Then Third party partners going back on their word at absolutely CRUCIAL times was like getting shot in the back by the fellow soldier who's supposed to have your back.

 

The Wii U hardware is there.  It is next gen.  It is "powerful."

 

So, I'd say the power of the Wii U lies in its magnaflops (which are here now) AND megahits (when they arrive) 

[RETROBLAST]

Nice ... I believe that things will turn around for the system, I have owned every Nintendo system to date except Virtual Boy, and think this is the best system yet ... I really do love the Control Pad and what you can do with it, its comfortable, its innovative, and its a pleasure to use.

[syks-1]

if it was only about the gameplay none of us would of upgraded from a nes,graphics DO make a difference

[Rockodoodle]

The Wii U is cool enough graphic wise for me and then some.  I don't care what these computer geeks say about it- I'm having a blast with mine and we haven't even gotten to a lot of the really good games yet.  Plus there's at least four more I'd like to get like Zombie U, AC3, Darksiders, Need for Speed

[RETROBLAST]

Graphics make a difference to a point ... The one thing that Nintendo has managed to do is improve the graphics in their games while at the same time improving the the game play in their games as well. But if it boiled down to it and I was given only one game to play For a weekend and the games were Sly Cooper Thieves In Time, Resistance Burning Skies, a Ratchet and Clank game, or Super Mario Brothers NES ... I would have to pick SMB NES, the worst game of the bunch graphically but the best in terms of game play.

Fare too many games look better than they play.

Edited by RETROBLAST, 15 July 2013 - 03:32 PM.

[Jeremygts]

I say that Mario games are hard core because they are unfofgiving with regard to game play mechanics, they are casual however in that they are forgiving in the sense that you get many 1ups and you do not have to find all the secrets or shoot for a high score ... you can breeze through them too.

the reason I do not like Little Big Planet is because the character moves too slow and the controls are sloppy, interesting ideas but not exciting for me,

Mario games are only hard if you have never played a NES...

[RETROBLAST]

Mario games today are casual and hard core at the same time. As a player, you decide how they will be ... Will you look for secret exits and try to get all the special coins? Will you use the infant save feature or only the in game feature? Will you use the invincible Mail after you die 5 times in a level or will you pass him up and tough it out?

And when I say Mario games are hard core I am also referring to game mechanics and damage or death as well.

With instant saves today, which did not exist when I was young, even the most hard core of games like SMB3 can now be a casual romp .... Do you realize that SMB1 had no save points at all and the player was expected to complete it in a single sitting?

[MatrixChicken]

if it was only about the gameplay none of us would of upgraded from a nes,graphics DO make a difference

 

Of course graphics make a difference. I'd be very disappointed if the Wii U was as graphically powerless as everyone makes it out to be. However, graphics are not everything. It takes a perfect mix of graphics, gameplay and story (though leaning heavily towards the gameplay and somewhat to the story side) to make a great game. Super Metroid is a great example. It has great gameplay and a seemingly shallow but yet awesome story, but it's graphics --though great back in its day-- are nowhere near, say, Rayman Legends's height of quality. Yet, it's still a really fun and great game to this day. Minecraft is another. It has arguably some of the worst graphics of any immensely popular game made within the past few years, but the gameplay makes it so fun that you (most people, not the people who think games are all about graphics) just forget about the graphics.

 

Still, though, Super Metroid and Minecraft look great, at least to me. Just remember that games don't need to have amazing graphics to look amazing.

[RETROBLAST]

I fully agree and I am glad that a lot of games today are made with retro game play and graphics, like Runner. I am fully enjoying the Wii U and its graphics and wait and see, the graphics will only get better as the system grows older.

Rockodoodle, on 15 Jul 2013 - 6:31 PM, said:The Wii U is cool enough graphic wise for me and then some.  I don't care what these computer geeks say about it- I'm having a blast with mine and we haven't even gotten to a lot of the really good games yet.  Plus there's at least four more I'd like to get like Zombie U, AC3, Darksiders, Need for Speed

I agree, I am having a blast as well.

[thechamp80]

I believe it is all too easy for people owning other systems to put down the Wii U ... many of these people probably have not played a Super Mario Game in a long time, and perhaps some may have never played a Mario game at all - if this is the case, they have no idea what they are missing.

 

There are huge debates as to wheather or not the Wii U is next generation, however, when a company comes out with a new video game system, it is next generation, no matter what ... it is that companies next generation machine.

 

Owning a Nintento Wii U, Nintendo 3DS XL, PS3, and a PS Vita, I can say that it is not the raw processing power of the system that counts, its the games.  But what makes a game for me is the GAME PLAY.  There are games on the PS Vita and PS3 that visually look more realistic than anything I have seen on the Wii U or 3DS and yet they are not great games because of their Game Play.

 

The PS Vita offered the chance of having console like 1st / 3rd Person Shooters in the Palm of your hands and to this date, in my opinion, all of them were horrible because of their Game Play combined with weak stories as well.  I'm talking about Resistance Burning Skies, Unit 13, and Uncharted ... all major disappointments in my book.  Perhaps the new Killzone game for the Vita may change my mind although I fear it will not have a single player campaign ... which is what I really want, instead it will be short missions to earn money ... time will tell.  To date and very unexpectedly, my favorite game on the Vita is Hustle Kings, and I am not even a Pool Fan in real life ... it is not visually stunning but the game play is great.

 

When it comes to 1st / 3rd person shooters, the PS3 satisfies me with Resistance Fall of Man, Resistance 2 & 3, Uncharted 1, 2, & 3, and KIllzone 1, 2, & 3, Gatling Gears, Lara Croft Guardian of Light, and Warhammer.  But when it comes to platformers, none are all that entertaining or satisfying to me, they are merely passable.  

 

Now when it comes to PLATFORMERS, the Wii U and 3DS beat anything on the PS3 or PS Vita.  Mario games are awesome on both the Wii U and the 3DS ....  What Nintendo does right on its home console, it also does right on its hand held and that can not be said of Sony at the moment.

 

When people talk about HARD CORE GAMING, I guess they are thinking of games with sex, blood, violence, and cursing.  But to be honest with you, being a gamer since the days of Pong, Space Invaders, Asteroids, Defender, Gradius, and breakout, I may have a different view of Hard Core Gaming.  

 

To me, it is the Hard Core Gaming I find in Nintendo games that keeps me coming back.  To me a Hard Core Gamer is one that loves to game a lot and does not consider themselves a casual gamer and they also like a challenge as well, in a game that has good game play.  

 

To me Super Mario and Zelda Games are Hard Core games but Nintendo has also made these games casual at the same time, hence their broad appeal ... You can dash through a Mario or Zelda game if you like, but the hard core gamer will try to find all the hidden items and exits - therefore it satisfies both types of gamers.

 

In addition, its the game play that really draws me into Nintendo games ... miss a jump by a hair in a Mario Game and you are dead!  Now that is hard core in a world where too many video games will practically make that jump for you or compensate for you missing and make it appear you made that jump.  Almost pop a turtle on the head in a Mario Game is not good enough, you will take damage or die if you do not execute the move correctly.  This leads to another point ... NIntendo really focuses on control in a video game ... the controls are spot on, not wishy washy ... So in my eyes at the very core, Nintendo Games are Hard Core.

 

So in my eyes, it is not the specs of the machine that make the game, its the game that makes the system.  Sony has had a bunch of platformers but even to this day , none of them compare the platforming action found in the 8 bit Super Mario Brothers NES TITLE.  

 

If NIntendo really wanted to, they could make one of the most enjoyable and entertaining 1st or 3rd person shooters without any blood, without any cursing, without any sex ... it would have to rely on great game play and an interesting story.  

 

Would you play a Super Mario 1st Person Shooter if he was shooting turtle shells instead of bullets?  If the characters made funny and interesting antics when they were shot instead of blood flowing from their bodies, if in the end princes peach only kissed you and you never saw her naked?  I would jump at the chance to play a Mario 1st Person shooter if the game play was on target and the story was good or funny.

 

I believe the Wii Us power lies in MEGA HIT Video Games with great Game Play and not TeraFlops because I have seen some real beautiful looking games on other systems and when it comes to actual game play, they are Magna Flops to me.

Vita has a much wider selection of platformers and I would say better. Gravity Rush(one of the best handheld games of all time), Rayman Origins(not the terrible version the 3DS got), Rayman Legends, Muramasa Rebirth, Guacamelee, Limbo, Dokuro, Littlebigplanet Vita, Tales from Space: Mutant Blobs Attack, Touch My Katamari. Kind of better than (Insert New Super Mario Bros. game here). Although Super Mario 3D Land was amazing.

[RETROBLAST]

I have to say I have played most of the games you are talking about and although some are good, I dont think you can beat the game play in Mario.

some of the games you mentioned, to me are more action adventure games than platformers or side scrolling fighters, for example I think of Gravity Rush as an action adventure.

I personally feel no one beats Mario when it comes to hop and pop platformers.

[SoldMyWiiUAndLeftTheForums]

Gameplay will always be more important than graphics, though personally I think we are at a point where home console graphics could stay the same and it wouldn't bother me, handhelds could use more improvments though.

[RETROBLAST]

Yes, I agree.