42 replies to this topic

[Alex Wolfers]

Dreamfall Chapters Wii U announcement also left us knowing the Wii U can run Unity 4. Now I believe these third party devs that complain are running out of excuses on why the Wii U is underpowered. Please discuss.

Proof: http://playeressence...rmed-for-wii-u/

 

[GAMER1984]

Didn't we already know this

[Alex Wolfers]

Didn't we already know this

If so this thread can be locked but this is my first time hearing of this.

[GAMER1984]

If so this thread can be locked but this is my first time hearing of this.

Didn't mean to sound like a jerk. I thought the first dev kits of Wii u came with unity 4. It's the latest version if I believe.

[Alex Wolfers]

Didn't mean to sound like a jerk. I thought the first dev kits of Wii u came with unity 4. It's the latest version if I believe.

It's cool man. As for the topic, this is confirmation the dev kit is being used on an upcomming game.

Edited by SaturnDaOPGaymFreak, 27 July 2013 - 01:23 PM.

[Bill Cipher]

Dreamfall Chapters Wii U announcement also left us knowing the Wii U can run Unity 4. Now I believe these third party devs that complain are running out of excuses on why the Wii U is underpowered. Please discuss.

Proof: http://playeressence...rmed-for-wii-u/

 

:Thump, Thump, Thump:

 

Sorry, that was the sound of my head hitting my desk. Please ignore that.

 

You are aware that the minimum requirement for Unity is pretty much ANY graphics card, right?  If someone really wanted to, they could probably get Unity 4, which is based in the same as every other Unity engine, running on a $400 PC from 2008. I can't say how well it would run, but it could run.

 

Saying that this means that "Devs are running out of excuses on why the Wii U is underpowered " is like saying that Wii U can run Rayman Legends, so therefore IT MUST BE POWERFUL. No, that doesn't mean anything. Being able to run it isn't news. What would qualify for news would be if the Wii U COULDN'T run it, because then that would show that the Wii U is under-powered. As per usual, this proves nothing in either side. All it proves is that Nintendo fan-boys are willing to latch onto what ever news they think will show the power of the Wii U. As of right now, Wii U is stuck at Gen 7ish in terms of power based off of current games that you can buy. Some games look better, others look worse.

 

Considering that for Wii U devs have to work harder to get their game to run properly on it then PS4/Xbone, it's not hard for them to call it under powered. They have to work harder for something that will sell likely worse then on the other systems depending upon the game. For them, it's a matter of time to get the power needed, and right now Wii U hasn't gotten the install base needed to sustain that effort to try and get power. Maybe it has the power needed to run Gen 8 visuals, but that will take time.

 

TL;DR Version:

Unity runs on everything underneath the sun with a graphics card, so this isn't news.

Devs calling Wii U under-powered are both right and wrong. It's Under-powered in the sense of time needed to draw the full power to make the game look as good as it does on the other systems. Compared to PS4/Xbone, it's harder to develop for, so devs pass on it and call it underpowered compared to next gen.

[3Dude]

Didn't mean to sound like a jerk. I thought the first dev kits of Wii u came with unity 4. It's the latest version if I believe.

No, the first dev kits came with unity 3, with support for its up to dx10 effects, but said the wii u engine would be updated to the complete feature set of unity 4.

Trolls ignored the second part, latched onto the first part, and began incessantly chanting and spamming threads about how wii u couldnt support the unity 4 feature set.

Which is why some people are making a big deal of this.

[DexterousGecko]

Dreamfall Chapters Wii U announcement also left us knowing the Wii U can run Unity 4. Now I believe these third party devs that complain are running out of excuses on why the Wii U is underpowered. Please discuss.

Proof: http://playeressence...rmed-for-wii-u/

as far as I'm concerned, there has been and remains only one "excuse" on why third party devs are not making games for the Wii U. MONEY. And yes, I think that's a very good reason.

[GAMER1984]

No, the first dev kits came with unity 3, with support for its up to dx10 effects, but said the wii u engine would be updated to the complete feature set of unity 4.

Trolls ignored the second part, latched onto the first part, and began incessantly chanting and spamming threads about how wii u couldnt support the unity 4 feature set.

Which is why some people are making a big deal of this.

 

 

Now i know thanks... Well lets see these games I just havent seen a 3rd party games launched at the "SAME TIME" as ps360 that outperforms them. i hope im not disappointed this year.

[Arkhandar]

No, the first dev kits came with unity 3, with support for its up to dx10 effects, but said the wii u engine would be updated to the complete feature set of unity 4.

Trolls ignored the second part, latched onto the first part, and began incessantly chanting and spamming threads about how wii u couldnt support the unity 4 feature set.

Which is why some people are making a big deal of this.

Every Wii U dev kit comes with a free Unity 4 license, but the Unity version for Wii U only supports the DX10 feature set, believe it or not.

 

Is the Wii U capable of more? Probably. Does Unity support it? No.

[3Dude]

Every Wii U dev kit comes with a free Unity 4 license, but the Unity version for Wii U only supports the DX10 feature set, believe it or not.
 
Is the Wii U capable of more? Probably. Does Unity support it? No.

Unity on wii u doesnt support any Direct X feature set, as Direct X is copyrighted by microsoft, and no nintendo system, no matter how powerful,ever has, or ever will, support the direct x feature set.

It can, however, support the same effects featured in direct x versions, provided they are proprietary, from an open graphics library, otherwise not from a graphics api owned by microsoft.

Which is why unity took longer to get the ver 4 feature set to wii u, as they had to build the new effects themselves, rather than using the provided ones from ms owned direct x like on pc.

Red thread already stated they knew the wii u was underpowered compared to ps4/pc, and wouldnt bring the game to the system if it couldnt run uncompromised.

They have since stated development on the wii u has been 'surprisingly painless and very rapid'.

Also, Nintendo is currently doing workshops around the world explaining how to use wii u's gx2's proprietary version of UNITY 4 PRO with all 4.x updates, and has even had official representatives announc full unity 4 and all 4.x updates over twitter.
...
.....

And now a unity 4 engine game is officially on wii u. The unity 4 being the unity engine specifically designed to incorporate the new effects and features of dx11, as unity 3.5 was for dx10.

You might want to hang the hat on this one.

[GAMER1984]

Unity on wii u doesnt support any Direct X feature set, as Direct X is copyrighted by microsoft, and no nintendo system, no matter how powerful,ever has, or ever will, support the direct x feature set.

It can, however, support the same effects featured in direct x versions, provided they are proprietary, from an open graphics library, otherwise not from a graphics api owned by microsoft.

Which is why unity took longer to get the ver 4 feature set to wii u, as they had to build the new effects themselves, rather than using the provided ones from ms owned direct x like on pc.

Red thread already stated they knew the wii u was underpowered compared to ps4/pc, and wouldnt bring the game to the system if it couldnt run uncompromised.

They have since stated development on the wii u has been 'surprisingly painless and very rapid'.

Also, Nintendo is currently doing workshops around the world explaining how to use wii u's gx2's proprietary version of UNITY 4 PRO with all 4.x updates, and has even had official representatives announc full unity 4 and all 4.x updates over twitter.
...
.....

And now a unity 4 engine game is officially on wii u. The unity 4 being the unity engine specifically designed to incorporate the new effects and features of dx11, as unity 3.5 was for dx10.

You might want to hang the hat on this one.

 

 

Man 3dude you can sell sand to an arab. I just want to see what Wii U can do... 3rd parties dont let me down this year please. dont have call of duty ghost, splinter cell blacklist, batman arkham origin, AC4, and Watchdogs all fall behind 360 in visuals and framerate.... dont embarrass Nintendo, Wii U, and its passionate gamers relaeasing crappy ports a year into it's life.

Unity on wii u doesnt support any Direct X feature set, as Direct X is copyrighted by microsoft, and no nintendo system, no matter how powerful,ever has, or ever will, support the direct x feature set.

It can, however, support the same effects featured in direct x versions, provided they are proprietary, from an open graphics library, otherwise not from a graphics api owned by microsoft.

Which is why unity took longer to get the ver 4 feature set to wii u, as they had to build the new effects themselves, rather than using the provided ones from ms owned direct x like on pc.

Red thread already stated they knew the wii u was underpowered compared to ps4/pc, and wouldnt bring the game to the system if it couldnt run uncompromised.

They have since stated development on the wii u has been 'surprisingly painless and very rapid'.

Also, Nintendo is currently doing workshops around the world explaining how to use wii u's gx2's proprietary version of UNITY 4 PRO with all 4.x updates, and has even had official representatives announc full unity 4 and all 4.x updates over twitter.
...
.....

And now a unity 4 engine game is officially on wii u. The unity 4 being the unity engine specifically designed to incorporate the new effects and features of dx11, as unity 3.5 was for dx10.

You might want to hang the hat on this one.

Question for you. im on Neogaf and people are questioning why Wii U games havent been using AA up to this point. (obviously as everyone thinks negative in Wii U tech terms) they are saying it doesnt have enough ROPs... whats your take... and why hasnt it seem like Nintendo is pushing those type of features on their games?

[Cloud Windfoot Omega]

Question for you. im on Neogaf and people are questioning why Wii U games havent been using AA up to this point. (obviously as everyone thinks negative in Wii U tech terms) they are saying it doesnt have enough ROPs... whats your take... and why hasnt it seem like Nintendo is pushing those type of features on their games?
 

Who honestly knows. Could be they do not see a reason to put it in as they think the IQ is high enough.

Edited by Cloud Windfoot Omega, 28 July 2013 - 01:55 AM.

[alan123]

The WiiU is underpowered compared to what, the X360/PS3 or X1/PS4 ?

 

 

 

Considering that for Wii U devs have to work harder to get their game to run properly on it then PS4/Xbone,

 

This is the actual issue that needs to be sorted out, why did Nintendo make the WiiU so hard to develop for, they knew Sony had problems when the PS3 was launched.

[Arkhandar]

Unity on wii u doesnt support any Direct X feature set, as Direct X is copyrighted by microsoft, and no nintendo system, no matter how powerful,ever has, or ever will, support the direct x feature set.

It can, however, support the same effects featured in direct x versions, provided they are proprietary, from an open graphics library, otherwise not from a graphics api owned by microsoft.

Which is why unity took longer to get the ver 4 feature set to wii u, as they had to build the new effects themselves, rather than using the provided ones from ms owned direct x like on pc.

Red thread already stated they knew the wii u was underpowered compared to ps4/pc, and wouldnt bring the game to the system if it couldnt run uncompromised.

They have since stated development on the wii u has been 'surprisingly painless and very rapid'.

Also, Nintendo is currently doing workshops around the world explaining how to use wii u's gx2's proprietary version of UNITY 4 PRO with all 4.x updates, and has even had official representatives announc full unity 4 and all 4.x updates over twitter.
...
.....

And now a unity 4 engine game is officially on wii u. The unity 4 being the unity engine specifically designed to incorporate the new effects and features of dx11, as unity 3.5 was for dx10.

You might want to hang the hat on this one.

Yes... it was already debated to death that when someone talks about DX here in the forums, they're usually referring to equivalent effects, not DX itself. You won't win any argument by saying, "it won't support it because microsoft owns it".

 

And in case you don't already know, not all Unity 4.x updates are related to DX effects. Most updates are related to optimizing the rendering engine, new tools and ease of use, so it's natural that the Wii U would support those updates. There is no actual confirmation of the engine being  "specifically designed to incorporate the new effects and features of dx11". Especially since the Unity guys only talked about DX10 in their Wii U keynote.

 

Now, I'm not saying that DX11 effects are impossible on the Wii U. I believe it's perfectly possible, but I think that there's no reason to blindingly speculate, as it will only bring disappointment in the long run.

[nintendo3DS]

:Thump, Thump, Thump:

 

Sorry, that was the sound of my head hitting my desk. Please ignore that.

 

You are aware that the minimum requirement for Unity is pretty much ANY graphics card, right?  If someone really wanted to, they could probably get Unity 4, which is based in the same as every other Unity engine, running on a $400 PC from 2008. I can't say how well it would run, but it could run.

 

Saying that this means that "Devs are running out of excuses on why the Wii U is underpowered " is like saying that Wii U can run Rayman Legends, so therefore IT MUST BE POWERFUL. No, that doesn't mean anything. Being able to run it isn't news. What would qualify for news would be if the Wii U COULDN'T run it, because then that would show that the Wii U is under-powered. As per usual, this proves nothing in either side. All it proves is that Nintendo fan-boys are willing to latch onto what ever news they think will show the power of the Wii U. As of right now, Wii U is stuck at Gen 7ish in terms of power based off of current games that you can buy. Some games look better, others look worse.

 

Considering that for Wii U devs have to work harder to get their game to run properly on it then PS4/Xbone, it's not hard for them to call it under powered. They have to work harder for something that will sell likely worse then on the other systems depending upon the game. For them, it's a matter of time to get the power needed, and right now Wii U hasn't gotten the install base needed to sustain that effort to try and get power. Maybe it has the power needed to run Gen 8 visuals, but that will take time.

 

TL;DR Version:

Unity runs on everything underneath the sun with a graphics card, so this isn't news.

Devs calling Wii U under-powered are both right and wrong. It's Under-powered in the sense of time needed to draw the full power to make the game look as good as it does on the other systems. Compared to PS4/Xbone, it's harder to develop for, so devs pass on it and call it underpowered compared to next gen.

 

You are absolutely right, N. But because of Nintendo fans getting treated like crap due to the Wii U being under-powered compared to the PS4/XB1, they think that any next-gen engine being able to run on the Wii U is good news. What if it's not the same exact thing though? For Unity 4, what if they had to tone it down for the under-powered Wii U? It's the same engine, but not as great as the engine that should be running exactly as the ones on PS4/XB1.

 

By the way, for anyone else who is reading this, I'm just pointing out the obvious. I'm not trying to start another "nooo the Wii U is super powerful because look how good Pikmin 3 is!" debate. No.

[Alex Atkin UK]

The WiiU is underpowered compared to what, the X360/PS3 or X1/PS4 ?

 

 

This is the actual issue that needs to be sorted out, why did Nintendo make the WiiU so hard to develop for, they knew Sony had problems when the PS3 was launched.

 

Its not difficult on the scale that PS3 was, as I understand its not really any harder than Xbox 360 as its a very similar architecture.

 

The problem is that developers have gotten so used to how the PS3/360 work that the fact the Wii U cannot necessarily run the code as well without significant changes to the game engine (due I believe to the change from an in-order CPU to an out-of-order CPU, plus extra CPU instructions that can offset the lower clock speed), is a problem.  Optimising costs money and there aren't enough of us buying Wii U games to rationalise spending that money.

 

The Xbox One/PS4 has some of the same problems, especially Xbox One that effectively uses the same architectural design (by that I mean the large main memory with a 32MB GPU specific fast cache) except with x86.  The difference there is they expect sales to be better so its worth the extra effort to get performance up.  Xbox One also has the benefit of being Direct X based, so porting from PC is a lot easier which again saves them money by not having to port over to a whole different API.  So while it might still be some of the same effort as Wii U, the benefits are greater.

 

For the record, the publishers are right.  I for one only bought my Wii U for exclusives, I plan to get PS4 for its exclusives and multi-platforms.

Edited by Alex Atkin UK, 28 July 2013 - 06:49 AM.

[3Dude]

Yes... it was already debated to death that when someone talks about DX here in the forums, they're usually referring to equivalent effects, not DX itself. You won't win any argument by saying, "it won't support it because microsoft owns it".
 
And in case you don't already know, not all Unity 4.x updates are related to DX effects. Most updates are related to optimizing the rendering engine, new tools and ease of use, so it's natural that the Wii U would support those updates. There is no actual confirmation of the engine being  "specifically designed to incorporate the new effects and features of dx11". Especially since the Unity guys only talked about DX10 in their Wii U keynote.

 


No, the single slide you took out of context and tried to use over and over again to erroneously represent the ENTIRE keynote simply said it could 'OF COURSE' support dx 10 level features, like deferred rendering. Never were the words 'up to' or 'only' ever used, it was 'of course it can'.

Hilariously, the picture in the box above the changing text in your picture you used all the time.

http://t1.gstatic.co...HR5X0mpEslgLH-U

was from unity 4's dx11 butterfly tech demo. That poor goofy lookin doofus. All he wanted was milk.



And once again, Nintendo representatives have said, at conventions going on right now, at the very convention you constantly try to misrepresent, and over twitter, that unity4 pro is coming with ALL unity 4.x updates, not some, not it will get only the ones not related to new dx11 supported effects, ALL UNITY 4.X UPDATES.

Healgason himself said yes when specifically asked about dx11/sm 5.0 effects.

Gaming Blend: While the Wii U doesn't specifically use DirectX functionality, will the Unity Engine for the Wii U allow for DirectX 11 equivalent functionality in regards to shaders, soft and self shadowing as well as potential scalability for shader 5.0 (or higher)?

Helgason: Yeah. We'll do a (Whoops, nda)– we'll make it potentially possible to do.

And now a unity 4 dx11 pc engine game, is now coming to wii u.

Unity 4 pro with the latest feature updates is here now, and is allowing red thread 'very rapid and painless progress' on dreamfall chapters. A unity 4 dx11 game.

[Waller]

The Wii U runs an engine every other game device currently on the market is able to run?!

 

Holy crap! This is truly a display of the Wii U's true technical capabilities!

[Cloud Windfoot Omega]

The WiiU is underpowered compared to what, the X360/PS3 or X1/PS4 ?

 

 

This is the actual issue that needs to be sorted out, why did Nintendo make the WiiU so hard to develop for, they knew Sony had problems when the PS3 was launched.

Actually its not hard to develop for, hell its even cheap.

 

 

You just need to take the right steps to get it working right. Which in all is not a big deal.