51 replies to this topic

[Aiddon]

That doesnt really happen anymore, hardware capability has far exceed the average competency level of most studios, resulting in incredibly sloppy code and horrendous memory management. They just arent up to the challenge today.

You would need to look to the past to see the things you are looking for regaurding pc vs console.

 

That is the thing most people don't seem to get regarding the seventh gen: it came too soon. NOBODY, regardless of how large they were, was ready for the HD bump. It's why we've seen so many studios fold in the last 7-8 years, including some spectacular ruinations such as THQ (who just made bad decision after bad decision) and 38 Studios (who folded after releasing ONE GAME). The current model can't work in the long run adn these band-aids that 3rd parties keep trying to apply (such as throwing GROSSLY oversized teams at project) aren't fixing anything. But, they think they can just ride out the storm and everything will be peachy in the end. Not gonna happen, not unless they change some MAJOR philosophies that were proven to be wrong.

[Poptartboy]

That is the thing most people don't seem to get regarding the seventh gen: it came too soon. NOBODY, regardless of how large they were, was ready for the HD bump. It's why we've seen so many studios fold in the last 7-8 years, including some spectacular ruinations such as THQ (who just made bad decision after bad decision) and 38 Studios (who folded after releasing ONE GAME). The current model can't work in the long run adn these band-aids that 3rd parties keep trying to apply (such as throwing GROSSLY oversized teams at project) aren't fixing anything. But, they think they can just ride out the storm and everything will be peachy in the end. Not gonna happen, not unless they change some MAJOR philosophies that were proven to be wrong.

Yeah absolutely.

[GAMER1984]

That is the thing most people don't seem to get regarding the seventh gen: it came too soon. NOBODY, regardless of how large they were, was ready for the HD bump. It's why we've seen so many studios fold in the last 7-8 years, including some spectacular ruinations such as THQ (who just made bad decision after bad decision) and 38 Studios (who folded after releasing ONE GAME). The current model can't work in the long run adn these band-aids that 3rd parties keep trying to apply (such as throwing GROSSLY oversized teams at project) aren't fixing anything. But, they think they can just ride out the storm and everything will be peachy in the end. Not gonna happen, not unless they change some MAJOR philosophies that were proven to be wrong.

Totally agree. Its funny but I can't wait to see who the next big dog to fold will be... And believe me its going to be someone BIG. Its so sad but that's why I respect Nintendo. Yes they do need to make some changes and improve. But they are more likely to stay afloat in this industry then a lot of people realize. They aren't going anywhere unless they want to.

[EvilMoogle]

I thought you just asked for examples of games which are better on PC, not using advanced hardware/graphics.

 

That is exactly what I read too.

 

Give us some examples of games that are loads better on PC. Minecraft is a good one but what else?
Not just graphics wise, I want actual gameplay differences.

 

I replied with gameplay differences. 

 

And none of that is down to hardware. Sure, those are all reasons why the PC version is best, but that not because the PC has more powerful hardware.

 

lolwut? Mouse and keyboard is hardware. 

Edited by EvilMoogle, 19 August 2013 - 10:03 AM.

[Poptartboy]

That is exactly what I read too.


I replied with gameplay differences.



lolwut? Mouse and keyboard is hardware.

We were talking about the power of the hardware for god sake.

[EvilMoogle]

We were talking about the power of the hardware for god sake.

 

I wasn't the only person in the thread who immediately thought you contradicted yourself. And the power of a mouse and keyboard is speed and precision, my point still stands. 

 

 

 So that's my point proven then. Specs won't make any difference to the games and they could easily make the games for Wii U if they wanted to.

Yeah exactly, my point was saying how the most powerful graphics around hasn't done anything gameplay wise that Wii U couldn't do.

The original point was saying specs were the reason we weren't getting games and I don't think that's the case at all.

 

 

You haven't proven anything. If you have a game that has a scenario like a battlefield with thousands of soldiers these soldiers and all the action needs to be processed in real time, and for this you need a powerful processor. You make it sound like we can take a game like Skyrim and just scale it down to a GameCube, no problem. I don't know what dream world you are living in but you seriously need to do some research and get a better understanding of what goes into making video games and just how heavily they rely on hardware instead of just playing them all day. 

Edited by EvilMoogle, 19 August 2013 - 10:07 AM.

[Poptartboy]

I wasn't the only person in the thread who immediately thought you contradicted yourself. And the power of a mouse and keyboard is speed and precision, my point still stands.




You haven't proven anything. If you have a game that has a scenario like a battlefield with thousands of soldiers these soldiers and all the action needs to be processed in real time, and for this you need a powerful processor. You make it sound like we can take a game like Skyrim and just scale it down to a GameCube, no problem. I don't know what dream world you are living in but you seriously need to do some research and get a better understanding of what goes into making video games and just how heavily they rely on hardware instead of just playing them all day.

Well I'm very sorry if you failed to follow a conversation thread. The discussion was on how the specs weren't good enough on Wii U for 3rd party games.
Your point absolutely stands, it just stands in a different discussion.

Secondly, thanks for pointing out how I'm in a dream world, nice to see you resort to talking like an idiot.
I'm well aware more can be done with hardware like that, but what I'm saying is that there's nothing that couldn't be done on Wii U in some way.
And lol at saying I should play less games and should find out how their made. Yeah cos that's where the real fun is.

[EvilMoogle]

Well I'm very sorry if you failed to follow a conversation thread. The discussion was on how the specs weren't good enough on Wii U for 3rd party games.
Your point absolutely stands, it just stands in a different discussion.

Secondly, thanks for pointing out how I'm in a dream world, nice to see you resort to talking like an idiot.
I'm well aware more can be done with hardware like that, but what I'm saying is that there's nothing that couldn't be done on Wii U in some way.
And lol at saying I should play less games and should find out how their made. Yeah cos that's where the real fun is.

 

I replied to what you said and even Nollog was confused because I gave you the answer you were looking for. I am still confused because normally I understand what everyone posts on this forum, but you're the first person I've seen that is ranting and not forming a coherent post. 

 

If more can be done with better hardware obviously the Wii U can't do everything. Hardware limits developers.

 

I don't think the lack of 3rd party support is because of the Wii U's hardware, but I do believe that PCs are superior in every way. The only reason I buy a console (like the Wii U) is for exclusives and the only reason I felt like replying to you is to educate you.

 

 

Once again I fully believe that many of the games that will be on the PS4/Xbox One should be on the Wii U as well.

 

However  PCs are better than all consoles and if I have the option of buying a game on a console or my PC I'll buy it on Steam for usually 35-50% cheaper, better graphics, free mods, and more precise gameplay thanks to my mouse and keyboard.  

Edited by EvilMoogle, 19 August 2013 - 09:10 PM.

[grahamf]

I replied with gameplay differences. 

 

 

lolwut? Mouse and keyboard is hardware. 

Your differences are based on input methods, not experience differences. What Poptartboy is referring to is stuff such as the modern equivalent of Mode 7.

 

yes, they are hardware. but to the game virtually all keyboards and mice are identical and can sometimes be interchangeable with more specific controllers, While a game can not run on a gpu or cpu that is too old or is unrecognized.

[EvilMoogle]

Your differences are based on input methods, not experience differences. What Poptartboy is referring to is stuff such as the modern equivalent of Mode 7.

 

yes, they are hardware. but to the game virtually all keyboards and mice are identical and can sometimes be interchangeable with more specific controllers, While a game can not run on a gpu or cpu that is too old or is unrecognized.

 

Mouse and keyboard will alter your gaming experience because you will be more precise and fast in the game. Graphics will alter your gameplay because visual quality is a part of your game experience. Processors alter exactly how much and how fast you can experience a game. He specifically asked "for examples of what the PC versions of games have done with their extra power" and that is exactly what the extra power does.

 

What you are basically saying is that it just doesn't matter. What do you want a PC do differently than a console besides give you a better experience? Even if something as crazy as virtual reality came out you guys would probably still argue that virtual reality doesn't do anything better than a console because you can still play the game the old fashioned way and experience the same game? I just don't understand how you can ignore everything and pretend it doesn't change your gameplay experience. Whether you like it or not more powerful hardware will give you a different experience.

 

As much as I love the old school games and consoles collecting dust in my basement the games and hardware out today makes today's generation of games simply superior in every way possible. If you agree that today's games provide a much richer experience than Pong then you will agree that PC will always have the best hardware and therefore the best experience because you can play games to their maximum potential. What you guys seem to be talking about is whether or not a PC changes the basic fundamental principles of a game and the answer to that is no. A comparison would be Pong and Grand Slam Tennis 2, obviously the concept is the same. Both are tennis games, but the experience is different thanks to video cards, processors, high resolution, enhanced physic, etc. 

Edited by EvilMoogle, 20 August 2013 - 01:16 PM.

[grahamf]

I suggest you look up Mode 7.

[Poptartboy]

I think the funny thing here is that you seem to think I'm arguing anything at all against the PC. Not at all, like I said if you like using the PC then that's great.

I actually used the PC as an example because while everyone keeps going on about the PS4, the PC has already been this good for a while.

Of course you can do better things with better hardware, and of course not everything could be done on the lesser hardware.

My point to be clear was there isn't really anything out there that's doing something that couldn't be scaled back a little and put on Wii U. Not that the higher spec versions of the game won't be better in some way, but that the lesser hardware of the Wii U isn't the reason a 3rd party developer won't port a game.